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CYTOKINE STORM - IMMUNE SYSTEM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 3:01pm
I was wondering if allergy drugs like claritin would help reduce this cytokine storm?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 6:39am
Originally posted by marzinn marzinn wrote:

I was wondering if allergy drugs like claritin would help
reduce this cytokine storm?



I don't think so.

P.S. Prendisone is a very powerful drug which must be monitored closely by
a physician.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 7:40am

Prednisone, a corticosteroid, is similar to a natural hormone produced by your adrenal glands. It often is used to replace this chemical when your body does not make enough of it. It relieves inflammation (swelling, heat, redness, and pain) and is used to treat certain forms of arthritis; skin, blood, kidney, eye, thyroid, and intestinal disorders (e.g., colitis); severe allergies; and asthma. Prednisone also is used with other drugs to prevent rejection of transplanted organs and to treat certain types of cancer.

marzinn wrote:
I was wondering if allergy drugs like claritin would help
reduce this cytokine storm?
Not sure, you could be onto something marzinn?! Ask you doc!

Some more info:

Prednisone is a corticosteroid. In contrast to anabolic steroids (used by “bodybuilders”), corticosteroids are used in inflammatory conditions for their anti–inflammatory effects. They have a rapid onset of action, and profoundly affect many parts of the immune system as well as most other body systems. Corticosteroids are a cornerstone of treating most types of vasculitis, and are often used in combination with other immunosuppressive medications.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 2:36pm

here's an interesting article/study re: corticosteroids and ARDS.

"New evidence suggests that prolonged treatment with low-dose corticosteroids may benefit patients with unresolving ARDS through multiple pathways.

...A take-home message, said Dr. Wood, is that lower doses of steroids have what appears to be benefit, whereas higher doses seem to fail. Nevertheless, uncertainties remain. Optimum dosage levels are unclear, and there is no agreement on when to start treatment."

http://www.pulmonaryreviews.com/aug03/pr_aug03_future.html

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 7:55am

Understanding The Connection Between Influx Of Immune Cells Into The Lung And Acute Lung Injury

Understanding the connection between influx of immune cells into the lung and acute lung injury is essential, since lung damage tends to occur secondary to increased lung inflammation. In a study appearing online on February 16 in advance of print publication in the March issue of the Journal of Clinical Investigation, Klaus Ley and colleagues from the University of Virginia in Charlottesville demonstrate that expression of an immune molecule called CXCR2 on blood vessel wall cells (as opp... click link for more info. more >>

http://www.killerflu.net/daily_bird_flu_news

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:06am

I posted this in another section, but it may be helpful here also.

New Theory Suggests Treatment For Immune Disorder Could Be Effective Against Avian Flu Infection

Chemotherapy for a disorder of the immune system may, in theory, be effective against human avian influenza infection, suggest scientists in a Hypothesis published online by The Lancet.The mortality rate for avian influenza A virus subtype H5N1 infection is around 50% and there is an urgent need for novel treatments... click link for more info. more >>

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:12am

Anti-inflammatory Effect Of Beer, Blocks Interferon-gamma-induced Chemical Processes

Scientists at Innsbruck Medical University have succeeded in demonstrating the anti-inflammatory effect of beer extracts. In vitro experiments conducted at the Division of Biological Chemistry at the Innsbruck Biocenter by Prof. Dietmar Fuchs and his team on peripheral mononuclear blood cells show that beer extracts block interferon-gamma-induced chemical processes... click link for more info. more >>

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:57pm

Originally posted by Rick Rick wrote:

Originally posted by marzinn marzinn wrote:

I was wondering if allergy drugs like claritin would help
reduce this cytokine storm?



I don't think so.

P.S. Prendisone is a very powerful drug which must be monitored closely by
a physician.


 

Rick, you are mistaken. Claritin is NOT prednisone.  Claritin is a loratadine medication, nowhere near prednisone.

As for prednisone, me and my daughters both took it when they were toddlers.........taken as prescribed, it caused my kids and I NO SIDE EFFECTS. Taking it as told is they key. Never one to listen to the docs, I stopped taking mine, cold turkey, and became sick......resumed the dosage and followed it through as the doc ordered......no problems.

I LOVE THIS STUFF.  Daughters and I got into some poison ivy years back.... entire sections of skin peeled off my hands, one kids' eyes swelled completely shut, the other's face swelled so completely, she only had slits for eyes and could not open her mouth at ALL.  After two doses, they were at the carnival........slightly puffy, but otherwise fine. BY evening of the next day.........they were normal. Poison Ivy causes a reaction in our immune systems, as you know.........and this prednisone is fabulous. I plan on seeking out the poison ivy this spring.......and stockpiling me a few prescriptions of prednisone by summer.........it worse comes to worse, I would not hesitate to use it. I have seen what it can do and in how short a time. THIS may be a godsend.   In a matter of hours, my daughter (then 4 & 6)  went from having their eyes  and mouth swelled completely shut, not able to speak or see they were TERRIFIED,  to going to the carnival and having fun. Taken as ordered..........that is the key.

 

 

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I will be honest the only thing that I believe will help is excretion and elimination in combination with drugs (natural and conventional) that can help lessen the inflammation. But, it will happen too quick to do just drugs alone, you will drowned in your own blood first. I did not want to write this because it sounds so gloom, but I have had many Doc's tell me the same. And yes all these drugs need Doctor Supervision. The question is will we be able to receive any doctor care? Mostly likely not. So if anyone chooses to obtain any of these natural or otherwise drugs, they must plan ahead and speak with a professional first in order to know how to administer the drugs properly.

 

"Strong immune response can mount strong inflammation. Inflammation has to be resolved by excretion and elimination, not by suppression." (Jared Zeff, ND, LaC, Ivan Hosek, MD, Zbynek Mucha, MD).

 

A Cytokine storm is not why people will die. It is failing defense mechanism, particularly low levels of lung protomorphogen (determinant factor) which allows such drastic inflammation which leads to bleeding, clotting, DIC  etc..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by KillerFlu.net KillerFlu.net wrote:

 The question is will we be able to receive any doctor care?

Mostly likely not. So if anyone chooses to obtain any of these natural or otherwise drugs, they must plan ahead and speak with a professional first in order to know how to administer the drugs properly.

When prescribed, it tells you how to take it on the bottle....  Just follow the directions to a t...... Shouldn't be difficult.

All this "prednisone is dangerous" talk is hype. ANY DRUG is dangerous if misused.  Take aspirin.....improperly taken equals internal bleeding...yuck! Tylenol misuse will damage your liver.....we need a healthy one of those.  Anti coagulants can cause strokes......... Prozac can make you commit suicide or kill someone else....

Take a moment and google the list of possible complications of THAT drug.  WHEW!

Newsflash:  Zithromax(a popular antibiotic)  can  cause heart arrhythmias (heart doesn't beat regularly).

Amoxicilian and augmentin (both antibiotics) can cause a severe intestinal bacterial infection which  often requires hospitalization....

The list is endless.

 Prednisone is no better nor worse than any drug. The only caveat is that one must READ AND FOLLOW the dosing instructions.

If someone can't or won't ......then ANY DRUG IS A DANGER TO THEM.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by marzinn marzinn wrote:

Originally posted by KillerFlu.net KillerFlu.net wrote:

 The question is will we be able to receive any doctor care?

Mostly likely not. So if anyone chooses to obtain any of these natural or otherwise drugs, they must plan ahead and speak with a professional first in order to know how to administer the drugs properly.

When prescribed, it tells you how to take it on the bottle....  Just follow the directions to a t...... Shouldn't be difficult.

All this "prednisone is dangerous" talk is hype. ANY DRUG is dangerous if misused.  Take aspirin.....improperly taken equals internal bleeding...yuck! Tylenol misuse will damage your liver.....we need a healthy one of those.  Anti coagulants can cause strokes......... Prozac can make you commit suicide or kill someone else....

Take a moment and google the list of possible complications of THAT drug.  WHEW!

Newsflash:  Zithromax(a popular antibiotic)  can  cause heart arrhythmias (heart doesn't beat regularly).

Amoxicilian and augmentin (both antibiotics) can cause a severe intestinal bacterial infection which  often requires hospitalization....

The list is endless.

 Prednisone is no better nor worse than any drug. The only caveat is that one must READ AND FOLLOW the dosing instructions.

If someone can't or won't ......then ANY DRUG IS A DANGER TO THEM.

I agree with you, but since I have a website and a book, I have to legally place that in there, so that I do not get sued, or have Uncles Sam calling again! I hear ya and understand! Remember I am the one who recommended that drug. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:31pm

Killerflu,

                               I didn't see your recommendation....alot of things get by me these days.... I have become rather scatterbrained...wonder if it's age or stress.....

                                 Prednisone MAY be a godsend for the cytokine storm. It's only a hunch I have, having seen the power of this drug firsthand.  I caution all to FOLLOW the dosage instructions with any and all herbs/vitamins/drugs you stockpile.  Prednisone at the foremost of the list.  If you do so, then it can be used safely.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by marzinn marzinn wrote:

Killerflu,

                                I didn't see your recommendation....alot of things get by me these days.... I have become rather scatterbrained...wonder if it's age or stress.....

                                 Prednisone MAY be a godsend for the cytokine storm. It's only a hunch I have, having seen the power of this drug firsthand.  I caution all to FOLLOW the dosage instructions with any and all herbs/vitamins/drugs you stockpile.  Prednisone at the foremost of the list.  If you do so, then it can be used safely.

Hi.

Below was is an email conversation I had with a MD who has done a lot of work in cytokine mediated illnesses.  The conversation originates at the bottom.  Prednisone is about the only thing I'm thinking may be of help and if taken in just the right balance.   Personally, I plan on supplementing with Vit D, E, curcumin, etc and a few things, as general practice, as well as suck a lot of zinc while flu is active in my area.  The key to this thing is, as we have all said, over and over: don't get sick.

Anyway: if this is of any interest:  (edited and names changed)
 
>haven't figured out how to do so yet.  No natural method works.  The
>problem remains. Dr. S.
 
 
>>Hi Doc,
>>Thanks for the reply.  Don't hear from me for a few years and now this >>- I don't want to wear out my welcome. ;- Any information >>appreciated.Would there be a way to block or inhibit cytokine storm >>frommacrophages/gamma interferon, either by natural methods,
>>prescription or off-label prescription?
>>Thanks
>>Bannor
 
>>>the cytokine storm in viral infections primarily comes from >>>macrophages and the most common player is gamma interferon.  In >>>biotoxin illnesses, the cytokines are IL-1B and TNF released by fat >>>cells.  Dr.S
 
>>>> With all the discussion and news of a possible Avian Flu pandemic, >>>> an aspect of your work occurred to me: The Avian Flu's mortality >>>> rate seems primarily due to the occurrence of a "cytokine storm".  >>>> Since the factors I've seen involved with this and those in your >>>> studies regarding inflammatory reactions relating to the use of >>>> cholestyramine appear similar, would the use of Actos or Avandia >>>> possibly be effective in reducing a cytokine storm in somebody ill >>>> with a human version of Avian Flu?
>>>> Thanks for any response you care to give and I look forward to
>>>>  hearing from you. Best Regards,
>>>> Bannor
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:17pm

Thanks, Bannor, for giving my "hunch" a bit more credence. 

 What drugs we all decide to stockpile is a PERSONAL choice. I have used prednisone, my daughters have used prednisone.......... I have seen what it can do.  I plan on stockpiling enough for my four family members, and if the need arises, will follow the dosing instructions without worries.

I also plan on supplementing with c, curcumin and quercetin. My sons lower dose steroid asthma inhalers will be his and our first line of defense. They go straight to the lungs, and someone posted on another thread, there is some medical theory that continued low dose steroids MAY have some benefit on the BF.  If that fails, then we stop the inhalers.....and bring out the "Big Guns" - prednisone.  I believe, as you do, this drug will have an impact on the BF. Possibly even a profound impact.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:45pm

As a note Prednisolone may be more useful, it is similar to prednisone but doesn’t have to be liver activated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 1:16pm

there's an interesting discussion on prednisolone here:

 

"The trick with the prednisolone re. cytokine storm…in a sense an autoimmune allergy…is large doses for short periods or time…1–3 days as the cytokine storm is also short in duration. This was the only treatment shown to be effective in treating SARS infections that also have the cytokine storm as a characteristic. "

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 8:32pm

Bannor/Killerflu/marzan,

THANK YOU for that info.  I was planning on stockpiling it only on my "hunch"alone, as I have seen what prednisone  can do. NOW, hopefully more people will read the links you provided and make their decisions accordingly.....

You may have saved lives.  

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 6:24pm


http://
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/453549_3#a2


http://www.medscape.com/pages/editorial/resourcecenters/publ ic/
influenzone/rc-influenzone1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2006 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by KillerFlu.net KillerFlu.net wrote:

Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

I heard that statin drugs such as Lipitor (cholesterol medicine) may also be affective for preventing the cytokine storm.

You may be interested in knowing that many if not all of the cholesterol lowering drugs are derived and or work like a natural drug called RED YEAST RICE. (same or similar statins)

As a substance, red yeast rice extract has a number of heart-healthy benefits: It seems to help reduce total cholesterol levels, lower levels of LDL ("bad") cholesterol, increase levels of HDL ("good") cholesterol, and lower levels of unhealthy fats called triglycerides. It appears to accomplish this by restricting the liver's production of cholesterol. The compound responsible for this effect--mevinolin--is chemically identical to the cholesterol-lowering compound lovastatin, which is sold as the prescription drug Mevacor. Hence the action by the FDA. Mevinolin is also similar to the active ingredients in other cholesterol medications such as Zocor (simvastatin) and Lipitor (atorvastatin). Unsaturated fatty acids in red yeast rice extract are also believed to be beneficial, possibly by lowering triglycerides.

Red Yeast Rice

May lower elevated cholesterol and triglyceride levels. This may reduce the risk of pneumonia

Warnings: “Do not take alcohol while taking red yeast rice. Possible liver problems. Do not take red yeast rice if you are at risk for liver disease, have liver disease, or have a history of liver disease; consume more than 2 alcoholic drinks per day; have a serious infection; have undergone an organ transplant; have a serious disease or medical disorder; or have recently undergone surgery. Effects on pregnant and breast-feeding patients unknown. Not recommended for people under the age of 20.

Interactions:

Azole antifungals (fluconazole, ketoconazole, itraconazole): Concomitant use of red yeast rice and an azole antifungal may increase the risk of myopathy.

Cyclosporine: Concomitant use of red yeast rice and cyclosporine may increase the risk of myopathy.

Fibrates (clofibrate, fenofibrate): Concomitant use of red yeast rice and a fibrate may increase the risk of myopathy.

Gemfibrozil: Concomitant use of red yeast rice and gemfibrozil may increase the risk of myopathy.

Macrolide antibiotics (clarithromycin, erythromycin): Concomitant use of red yeast rice and certain macrolide antibiotics may increase the risk of myopathy.

Nefazodone: Concomitant use of red yeast rice and nefazodone may increase the risk of myopathy.

Protease inhibitors (amprenavir, indinavir, nelfinavir, ritonavir, saquinavir): Concomitant use of red yeast rice and a protease inhibitor may increase the risk of myopathy.

Statins (atorvastatin, cerivastatin, fluvastatin, lovastatin, pravastatin, simvastatin): Concomitant use of red yeast rice with a pharmaceutical statin may increase the risk of adverse reactions.

Warfarin: Concomitant use of red yeast rice and warfarin may result in an increase in the INR as well as bleeding.

Grapefruit and grapefruit juice may interact with red yeast rice. The interaction could lead to potentially dangerous effects. Adverse reactions reported, included flatulence and heartburn.

Dosage: 2400mg see warnings. Take after a meal.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2006 at 4:12pm

cholesterol medicine) may also be affective for preventing the cytokine storm.(quote)

 

we can get that her in Canada as a spray.....towards the throat

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