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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

extreme UV (?????)

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 30 2018 at 10:49pm
DJ; MrMBB333 did mention several times extreme UV-A, B and even C reaching Earth-surface. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-wWtLdX05g His report of a severe burns on a young dog in Texas. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x8tyDotgAg DJ-Do not know what to think of this story. If it is correct-fits in with MrMBB333 readings-it is shocking:
(UV in the stratosphere is higher than on the surface, climate change does effect ozon O3-and UV-filters. You do not need "planet X" -as a cause for extreme UV. Selling sun-blocks in tablets may not be "wise"-I don't know enough of it....CoolNukeErmm)

Solar induced illnesses on the rise and you didn't get this latest warning from us did you? Well, It's Here! UV readings of 15 on a scale that went to 10. They will raise this scale again or simply cap the findings,.... you know that is coming! Also, As Fires Start To Rage, They Double in 24 hours, Exploding Wildfires! Really? Our UV index is doing things it has never done before. The source of this ultra violet is the Sun corona ionization of neutral cosmic rays.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2018 at 11:41pm
Hmmmm........  Probably not.

Our sun has always produced lethal radiation.  We have had partial protection from the van allan belts, the atmosphere itself - especially the water and the ozone layer.

Our magnetic field is weakening, apparently from some natural cycle.  There is still officially enough there to generate the van allan belts, but we do not know for how long or if anyone would tell us if it dropped enough to be dangerous.

Those van allan belts only block charged particles.  Electromagnetic radiation is un affected and that includes ultra violet.  The primary absorber of damaging ultraviolet is ozone.  It is a bit complicated, but ozone reacts with methane and we have already damaged our ozone layer a bit.  I don't know what effect the climate-change-greleased methane hydrate is having on the ozone layer, but it can't be good.  Methane is CH4 ie.1 carbon atom and 4 hydrogen ones, ozone is O3 ie. 3 oxygen atoms, both chemicals are unstable and consequently reactive.  Oxygen atoms prefer to be coupled with hydrogen and carbon than each other and both carbon and hydrogen prefer oxygen to one another; high energy radiation like uv adds fuel to chemical reactions.  Chemically this is the equivalent of taking a wagon load of boys from a boys only school, adding a wagon load of girls from a girls only school and supplying copious alcohol.  You tend to get a lot of coupling.  If this had destroyed a portion of our protection, I doubt anyone would have told us yet.  "You have to avoid panic at all costs!"

Even the water in our clouds protects us and it has been hellishly dry in Europe lately.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 11:38am
Techno, thank you for your reaction.




DJ-Depletion of the ozon-layer will be maximum by 2020 (due to CFC's a.o.) So UV protection will get less till 2020. 

Still trying to find effectsof methane on the ozon-layer. https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/uv-index-1#day1 I do get the impression UVlevels are "higher than one may expect".


The ozone hole and changes in climate are interlinked. The increasing greenhouse effect heats the lowest part of the atmosphere, while the upper part is cooled. The ozone layer is in the upper part, which becomes cold. When the temperature is sufficiently low in this part of the atmosphere, a larger number of beautiful mother-of-pearl clouds form, and such clouds strongly intensify the breakdown of ozone. This takes place because reactions in the clouds cause the sunlight to form chlorine compounds which, in turn, break down the ozone layer.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 1:04pm
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diligent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 4:25pm
3-11-2011
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 5:23pm
I am having trouble guessing the difference between cause and effect here, Diligent.  Are you suggesting that the Japan earthquake released methane, was triggered by the release of methane or am I just too blind to get whatever the third possible meaning was?

I grock that isostatic readustment from global warming can increase geological activity and that geological activity can add to the sublimation of methane hydrates.  But You need to help the idiot here  just a little bit - please!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 10:06pm
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/thunderstorms-ozone-atmosphere-18600 Lightning is displacing ozone from the upper levels of the atmosphere to the lower levels. 

Fukushima was tritium-release also tritium effects the ozone-layer. Together with the CFC's still destroying the ozone layer till the maximum in 2020-and a repair from CFC's taking decades, I do think the ozone-layer may be getting that much weaker that UV can get through more easy.

Proberbly there are historic data on UV levels. The basic idea of UV-C being stopped in the upper atmosphere may be "to optimistic" if there is widespread UV-C measurement around the globe surface. 

An increase in (skin)cancers, eye problems, plant growth etc. is expected. 

All in all-MrMBB333 and others reporting an increase in UV in my opinion are trying to report a very serious development that does not make the news while it should be top of the list. 
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Diligent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 11:09pm
I will try Technophobe. 

Dutch Josh's second link at : nuclear-news.net - is very informative, and saddening.

The radiation released and the continual radiation escaping the Fukushima-Daiichi Nuclear Reactor Complex, has risen to the stratosphere, and is interfering with the formation and creation of life saving ozone.

UV-C should never get through and reach the ground. Though it is now.

Additionally, the radiation from the disaster has permeated and poisoned the ocean's of the world, primarily in the Northern Hemisphere, but will reach the Southern Hemisphere if it is not already taking place. This is an unstoppable fact.

 I am very sorry to say the ionizing radiation is killing the primary oxygen producing agents of our planet, Phytoplankton's.

Given the long half-life's of the escaping radionuclides, and the continual damage it is causing, the prognosis for a solution is bleak. And that is because the dispersion, and the continual dispersion of the radiation producing elements has already taken place.

Folk's, that is about it for tonight. I don't like to speak of these thing's because of the enormity of the problem/situation.


Sincerely,

Diligent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 1:29am
Thank ou, Diligent!  That is terrifying, but thank you anyway!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 11:52am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8k9K-jhIT4 An (older) list of radio-activity in the US (caused by nuclear energy leaks, but also coal, old nuclear tests etc.). Ofcourse this radiation is not helping the atmosphere....

The problems are extreme, go back to the start of large scale coal production. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

Answers are needed very urgent.....

I will try to find more info on UV in historic perspective. http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/36/3/1345.full (interesting read on UV and health) (https://phys.org/news/2018-07-ocean-acidification-million-years.html#jCp CO2 in the oceans-dramatic by 2100 ???? the magical 2100-eventhough we are already in a serious crisis now.)
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2018 at 10:49pm
I was trying to find out what is the correct way to measure UV. One idea is that MrMBB333 may be getting wrong measurements-UV can be reflected (a.o. by water) so you can get double measurements. 

This reflecting of UV-energy could also explain the damage he is presenting (to cars but also to plants and the poor dog)-it gets direct and indirect UV. 

There still is an increase of UV on the surface. Tritium from Fukushima (a.o), CFC's from refrigurators, maybe an increase of UV from the Sun and other clouds can explain it.

Just like finding a "normal situation for earthquakes" it is hard to find/get a "norm" for UV. So to claim that UV now did increase is "relative"-since there may be only limited data to compare with. (?)

When you want to get the "correct" temperatures you have to take them at 1 meter above ground in the shadow. Proberbly the same for UV ? In the sun-with reflection-you do not get it the "standard"way.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2018 at 1:28am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LyOT6UAoGU

MrMBB333 with new-extreme-UV readings;

Amsterdam-NL UV A/B 8.5
Phoenix AZ UV A/B 11 UV-C 42

DJ- I do not know how to look at this readings-the UV-A/B readings coincide with the official expected UV-values. (Do they not measure UV-C because it is not supposed to be there ? )
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2018 at 8:28am
https://thebulletin.org/2018/08/the-atmosphere-is-not-following-protocol/?utm_source=Bulletin%20Newsletter&utm_medium=iContact%20email&utm_campaign=August10

Earlier this summer, investigations by the New York Times and the independent Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA) found that 18 factories spread across 10 provinces in China were using CFC-11 in foam-blowing products used to insulate buildings, pipes, and appliances such as refrigerators. The chemical is one of a class of compounds known as chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) that are famous for their ozone-depleting effects in the stratosphere—but are also extremely potent greenhouse gases, significantly contributing to global warming. They were supposed to have been banned globally by 2010. But the companies told the EIA that the use of CFC-11 was commonplace, appearing in up to 70 percent or more of insulating products in China. “We were absolutely gobsmacked to find that companies very openly confirmed using CFC-11 while acknowledging it was illegal,” said Avipsa Mahapatra of EIA. “The fact that they were so blasé about it, the fact that they told us very openly how pervasive it is in the market.”

The news is indeed shocking.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2018 at 3:18am
https://thebulletin.org/2018/09/unexpected-unreported-and-so-far-unexplained-emissions-of-cfc-11/?utm_source=Bulletin%20Newsletter&utm_medium=iContact%20Email&utm_campaign=September21 CFC-11 (and 12) are also extreme greenhouse gases. (replacing them by HFC's is not doing enough to limit the damage.

As an independent study published by one of us (Ramanathan) in 1975 showed, both CFC-11 and CFC-12 are potent, “super greenhouse gases;” increasing their atmospheric concentrations by a tiny amount of just 2 parts per billion each can warm the planet by as much as 0.9degrees Celsius—an important amount when the Paris Agreement on Climate Changes is struggling to limit further global temperature increases to 1.5 degrees. (To give a sense of the incredible power of CFCs, the warming effect of 2 parts per billion of CFC-11 and CFC-12 is equal to the effects of 65 parts per million of carbon dioxide).
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2018 at 8:17pm
The Chinese Death Star, continued....

Although outlawed, China continues to manufacture, use and emit chlorofluorocarbons from their industrial complexes.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/06/27/investigators-china-illegal-cfc-emissions/

A global environmental "whodunit" emerged last month, when researchers revealed that someone, somewhere, was pumping tonnes of banned chemical CFC-11 into the atmosphere. Now, investigators think they've found the culprits. According to The New York Times, the ozone-damaging gas is likely being emitted by illegal refrigerator factories in China, which claim no-one told them the chemical was prohibited by the 1987 Montreal Protocol.

As we know, these rip the ozone layer to shreds, allowing more UV radiation of all wavelengths to penetrate to the ground. This is causing increases in skin cancer, cataracts and other bad effects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2018 at 9:47pm
CTS, DrPH-There are (many) questions on this subject:

-CFC's were used in insulation, part of the release may come from old insulation (pulling down buildings etc.)
-measurements are far from perfect-there are some indications that the place of release may be more than just China. (DJ-Enviroment rules are "not strong" alover the globe. Old electronics end up in Africa (refrigurators etc.), India, South America-also western countries do not always follow the rules.)
-A "new cold war" is making countries playing the blame-game instead of doing the best they can to solve the (very urgent global) problems.

DJ-Humans are self-destructive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2018 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

CTS, DrPH-There are (many) questions on this subject:

-CFC's were used in insulation, part of the release may come from old insulation (pulling down buildings etc.)
-measurements are far from perfect-there are some indications that the place of release may be more than just China. (DJ-Enviroment rules are "not strong" alover the globe. Old electronics end up in Africa (refrigurators etc.), India, South America-also western countries do not always follow the rules.)
-A "new cold war" is making countries playing the blame-game instead of doing the best they can to solve the (very urgent global) problems.

DJ-Humans are self-destructive.


DJ, your points are well taken!

However, it is well established that the Chinese manufacturing state takes many short-cuts, particularly when dealing with hazardous and regulated wastes. I tend to believe the reporting that spikes in CFC emissions are from Chinese factories.

We do need a higher level of engagement vs. the present US formula of "I'll tariff you to death!" (really dumb). I'd like to see a "grand project" undertaken, perhaps a massive moon base designed, built and populated by Chinese and American citizens/scientists (and EU, Russian etc.). A peaceful and combined moon base mission would be far easier than a trip to Mars, and more useful to all of us in terms of low-gravity or zero-gravity manufacturing, science research etc.

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2018 at 10:46pm
We have to much challenges on this planet already-going to space may help finding solutions.

Only international cooperation may give us (a very small) chance of surviving the many crises we face in the near future. Without such international cooperation "we are living dead" with at best only a few years left.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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