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 Posted: July 30 2006 at 12:21pm |
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Now as i understand you if I catch a burgler robbing my hard earned
possessions I should slap him on the wrist and say "bad boy" and let
him go? Our meanest nastiest criminals have a habit of killing,
raping and other general mayham. So when I catch a rapist who
tortured and killed a child I should suggest to him to wear a condom
the next time? When a yo yo is importing drugs by the truckload and
poisoning our children I should day please put a bow on the
package? So why bother prepping in the UK? If anyone is allowed
to just walk in and take whatever you have. Why should I work?
Why not just go out and take whatever I want to? Boy am I
confused.
When the IRA was bombing London did you say-"no no please don't do that"? I agree we are not talking about guns here. We don't create jobs for people we just give them welfare and then they complain we are being unfair and not paying their rent too- whoops we do that too. Yes its a mess here too and no easy answers. come on over and visit the US. You can be like Oprah. She preaches against gun ownership but hires 3 armed body guards to go where ever she goes. |
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Scotty
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Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 12:54pm |
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The point that you have made is specific to gun ownership within your own country and under existing social policies. What criminal would not carry a gun within a society where law abiding people carry them. Of course they carry them and of course they use them.
Your country has operated the same policy, give or take, for several centuries. Maybe now would be a good time to pause to check the statistics, just to confirm that your current policy is working as intended. Just to confirm that you live in one of the safest countries on earth. Just to confirm that the chances of getting gunned down in your society are much less than others. When you have done this there will be no need for debate and the rest of the world can go ahead and arm their own citizens to the teeth in the sure and certain knowledge that they will be as "safe" as you are. The last time I looked, a decade ago, there were more murders in Washington per year than in the whole of Europe. That's not a statistic; that's a disgrace. |
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Scotty
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 1:26pm |
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Oldasrocks: Get burgled that often do you? Catch a lot of them? The average burglary rate here is 1.2 events per lifetime. I've never caught a rapist either. I don't know whether it really is as horrific as you suggest over there or whether you are just trying to win an argument regardless of the damage you might do in the process. I would need to check the statistics.
If you really want to know what we would do in the U.K. we would call the police. If you think that this is a crazy and unworkable policy then of course we could check the statistics on this too. Do you have a higher or lower rate of crime, rape and murder than we do? These things are not a matter of opinion. They are a matter of fact and they can be checked. I don't want to comment on what we did or do when people bomb London but you can be certain that the very first action would be to do exactly what you suggest. When has the "exterminate" theory ever worked? The original intention was to be controversial. I have failed in this aim and there are only three of us who are interested. I guess its already been done to death. Have we done wealthy white anglo saxon male presidents yet? |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 1:37pm |
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Scotty,
You are absolutely correct. Now having said that please allow me to expand a triffle. I own 7 firearms of various types and plan on adding a couple more this week. I also have a VERY large amount of ammunition. I have never committed a crime, violent or otherwise. I own these weapons for two reasons: recreation and security. It has been estimated (someone please correct me if I'm innacurate), that there are over 140 MILLION firearms in the general population in the US. Thats roughly one for every two people. IF the Government decided to violate the constitution and seize these arms, how successful do you think they would be? The vast majority are not registered and they would not have the slightest idea where to start looking. This would require a house to house search of 300,000,000 people. In the absense of a specific search warrant for each and every property, you now have a major constitutional crisis on your hands. After hurricane Katrina it was the policy of either the City of New Orleans or the State of Lousiana, I'm not sure which, to seize all firearms from the general population, and they went house to house to do it. They got a small fraction, and last week the courts rules that it was a major violation of our Constitution against unlawful search and seizure. They wont be doing that again. Now, given the Protections afforded us a U.S. Citizens that have nothing to do with firearms, how do you figure any Government entity, even backed by a proper amendment to the Constitution or other Legal Device is going to be able to locate all these firearms? It's impossible. I can tell you for sure they would not get all of mine. They can have the registered ones, but the others go into secure storage. You know why the U.S has never been invaded, or involved in wars like all of Europe? Because an invader would have to be out of there friggin mind to think they could put enough men and material on the ground to fight off a population so well armed. Yes, there is Al ot of crime, violent and otherwise in our homeland. That is the result of Social Problems associated with being the melting Pot of the world as well as being so insensitive to the needs of incorporating an enslaved people into our society. Had This country been more responsive to the needs of a large population of people who did not want to be here 150 years ago, I believe our country would be a much better place than it is today. I personally am ashamed of my country for its behavior until 1865, and now we have a situation that may not be recoverable, particularly now with our Illegal Immigration problem.
The sum of this rather long rambling is that Firearms are not the problem, and are in fact a positive factor for the countrys long term survival. However, our social problems do largely involve firearms. I dont know what the soultion is: I only know you are not going to take my dog because the one down the street bit someone.
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Scotty
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 2:02pm |
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Love the bit about the dog!
We had better behave else we'll get our wrists slapped. Maybe what we really need is some solid news about H5N1. Its still festering out there but there's nothing really new that we can get our teeth into. I'm not very good at being deliberately controversial with what is, after all, a very old subject. Kept us going for a while though. |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 3:00pm |
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Twoolf, You only own 7 firearms??? So deprived. We
have a gun show next month. Come on over and get a few more. I
can never decide what I want so keep buying more. I think I have around
30 and my brother has several times that many. I just need to
find a good M60, some Claymores, a M79, and some plastic.
I agree Scotty, WE are off the subject but you are right BF news is dragging. Nothing out of Africa, Indonsia is more concerned with earthquakes etc, Viet Nam is lying, china always lies- and I know its H2H over there. Like sitting on a bomb and not being able to see the timer. Wondering why I prepped at all. I could have bought a new car with what I've spent. |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 3:09pm |
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Scotty, One final note.
You brought up the subject of gun deaths in DC. In DC and NYC it is illegal for anyone to own a firearm. These 2 places are the most restrictive in the nation for gun ownership. I love it when a fledgling journalist quotes the gun deaths in these 2 places by automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been outlawed since 1929. So if guns are strictly illegal in these places why are gun deaths so high? Of course drugs are illegal also. I think DC has the highest per capita of welfare recipients in the nation. Maybe its welfare not guns that are causing the deaths? This same percentage holds true in New Orleans. |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 4:25pm |
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Old,
I'm on the West Central Coast of Florida. But if you know of a really nice Walther PPK for doing the dishes...........
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 5:02pm |
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Do you want the 9mm or 380 version? I have a 9mm and a Wather P22 for
the wife. Sweet but I prefer my old Security 6 for hunting
and did drop a deer at 40 yards with a head shot-just to see if I
could-- For carrying I still prefer my 45 auto. or the 380 Beretta if
its too warm to wear a jacket. I might buy a 40 just because I
don't have one. Another option is the PT 24/7 Tauras- cheap and a good
shooter. Thats the one I keep under my pillow. Of course no
bedroom decor would be complete without a 12 gauge Mossberg beside the
bed.
I prefer the Glazier rounds for self defense. Guarenteed stop. Our kitchen comes complete with a Saigo-410. I wonder what Scotty would do here? Either feel safe or wet his pants. If he ran away screaming the trip wires would catch him setting off 12 gauge shells and aerial flares. For doing the dishes you might want to consider a stainless steel version. |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 5:05pm |
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I drove through west Florida a while back. All I saw was trees. Maybe you just need a good Homelite for self defense?
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 5:31pm |
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I prefer my Smith 357 for general carry, but for work and around the house, the PPK in 9mm seems like it would be about perfect. You must have been north of where i'm at. My area is pretty well built up.
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 6:16pm |
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We were on the interstate headed west.
I prefer the 357 for one shot purposes like hunting but rapid fire I can group a tighter circle with the 45 auto. I had a 44 mag yrs ago but it hurt to shoot it so I sold it. What your favorite rifle? I'm getting real partial to my 17 cal. I have both the bolt action and semi auto. |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 6:30pm |
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Oldasrocks,
What type of firearm do you recommend for a strong, female, first time gun owner? Where should I go to purchase and where to learn about it?
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 6:50pm |
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For a first time owner I would suggest you look in the yellow pages for
a dealer that has a target range. If you can find the right guy he will
have weapons you can try out for a small fee. If not a dealer hunt
around for a range or individual to shoot a few rounds. Its
impossible for me to know what you would be comfortable shooting.
Its more important to hit the target that shooting a large caliber.
I've killed beef with a 22.
My wife is small so she shoots a 22 Wather. For stopping power the 9mm is a pretty good round. Even a 380 (9mm short) is adequate. I would load with Glazier rounds if you plan on shooting a bad guy. They break into 165 little pieces when they hit and do a lot more damage to soft flesh. Not being a gun person I would recommend a revolver rather than a semi auto. Less to go wrong (jam) and easier to learn with. you will find that in 38 cal not 9mm but same thing. I made my wife shoot up a brick of 22 shells- 550 rounds- to get her comfortable with the weapon. A revolver you only have to pull the trigger. Shoot both and see which you like better. I hope this helps. |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 7:16pm |
 Oldasrocks,
Thanks alot .... this gives me a starting point! I value your wisdom on many things.
 I've noticed you have invited people to join you on occassion. In the back of my mind I've stored the thought if I'm ever homeless because of BF and nowhere to go, I can take the girls and find Oldasrocks .... You're like my BF guardian angel  Being the protective mommy that I am, of course I'd have to do a backgroud check on you first, and vice versa I'm sure. Since we won't have electricity or internet I'll take your wife's word.  |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 7:23pm |
I agree on the .44 I also had one, fired two shots and decided it was wayyyyyyy to much gun. I'll keep my .357. My favorite rifle would be my Ruger Model 77 in .308 The sniper I bought it from had it zeroed at 500 yards. Im not that good but I can get a 2" group at 200 yards.
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 8:03pm |
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Well, my wife is sitting right here. She is studying bugs on her laptop
beside me. Now you owe me a bigger hat as you swelled my head.
snicker. I'm nobody special. I am not wise- just been alive a
long time.
Children?? How old? I get nervous around kids as I'm an old man. We were in Thailand where I got the best massage in my life and my wife would not let me bring the girl home. So I have to ask her opinion, permission about this. We are in central Missouri. Where are you at? WE have actually worked out the potential of taking latecomers in. We plan one buying a couple small camper trailers. Any latecomer would be required to live in one a few days to make sure they are clean. Meals would be provided of course. If they died in the trailer It will be torched. This is necessary to protect others already here. We will have both electricity and internet. We will do our final shopping the first confirmed outbreak anywhere in the world H2H. We lock the gate the first H2H in America. so write to me if you are serious. Yes I would have to know you in advance before I opened the gate for you. My family comes first. oldasrocks@wildbue.net |
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Posted: July 30 2006 at 8:07pm |
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twoolf a 2" group at 200 is real good for a 308. If the wind isn't
blowing and I am over sandbags I can hit quarters at 200 with a 17 cal.
I've killed at 650 with my 270. beautiful buck. As i get older I like
the smaller calibers better on the shoulder. I bought a 7.62 X54
from a guy cheap and sorry I did. It kicks like a country mule
and rolls the chips around in my shoulder.
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Scotty
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 7:56am |
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Scotty has the means to conceal, disguise and restrict access to his preps. Scotty also has the means to defend himself by progressively escalating the damage done to most aggressors. Scotty has the means to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that any resulting bodies had ample physical warning. Scotty does not intend to buckle and has weaponry that fires around corners from all six planes of view. It is very difficult to be aggressive when you can't see, can't breath and can't move. If this doesn't work then the aggressors will lose the use of their extremities, followed by their hearing. At this point they will have had fair and reasonable warning that they really aren't welcome.
Scotty is a natural pacifist but he is not an idiot. |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 8:15am |
Scotty--
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 8:17am |
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Scotty I'm impressed. So can you help you your poor backward country cousins with some of your advanced ideas?
I'm still working on my catapult. |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 8:27am |
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4thegirls,
I was thinking about handguns when I wrote you. You might consider a 410 pump shotgun also. 18" barrel. if you can handle a 12 gauge so much the better but any shotgun is good. In a way its a better home defense weapon. Shorter range but easier to hit something. For self defense take the plug out and you can hold 6 rounds in it. |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 9:15am |
Old,
Do you really want someone who is inexperienced in firearms having a hot round at all times. Me thinks that may be a bad plan.
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Scotty
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 9:50am |
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oldasrocks: You'll never hear me talking about anyone in North America in that way. We have enough snobs in the U.K. without me adding to their ranks.
I try to arrange my bolt holes so that entry involves crawling on the ground, one man at a time. I have attempted to make this slightly more difficult with flour, pepper, smoke, acetone, ammonia, MDF dust, Iroko sawdust and epoxy resin. I have a compressor with a reasonably large air tank suitable for powering various pneumatic tools such as nail guns and staple guns. If I choose to use the smoke then it will be sourced by burning polyurethane foam. I believe this gives off a cyanide based gas that is rather unpleasant. If anyone finds their way past this lot then I may be forced to resort to violence. I will be purchasing a basic long bow for emergency use only. |
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Bill 100
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Joined: May 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 524 |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 10:21am |
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Something I am looking for at this US 127 yard sale coming up in my area, is a baseball bat, (softball bat). I might be able to save on ammo, with the not so serious yahoo's.
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 12:43pm |
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Bill, I'd buy a real LOOOng bat as you don't want to get too
close much less get spit on by an infected person. Pepper spray
or a Tazer is a better choice.
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Bill 100
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 1:52pm |
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I don't think every case will be the same, they will be different. It will be a judgement call, with each one. I would not confront somebody with just a baseball bat alone, I would be wearing my 9mm. There is something about pointing a gun at somebody, they never forget. I don't want to have a large list of people that I have pointed a gun at. It can give you alot of reasons to look over your shoulder, and not sleep at night. |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 2:02pm |
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Ok Sports fans which president said "walk softly but carry a big stick"
Instead of a baseball bat how about an electric cattle prod? Not as good as a Tazer but very effective. I would opt for a hand held one that would suprise someone not the long stinger ones. |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 2:07pm |
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"arrange my bolt holes"?????? boy I am really confused now. I do like your gas idea.
The problem here is I want people to stay off the whole property. We have lots of fruit trees, garden, and a pond full of fish to eat. My shop is out front used to build or repair whatever is needed. That is an area about 100 meters X 250 meters. |
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 4:20pm |
That would be Teddy R, oldas, one of my favorite Presidents.
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Bill 100
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 5:46pm |
I would want to be able to bust their head, not tickle them.
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 6:16pm |
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Bill, sitting here trying to remember the brand name-- but I know of
one so hot it will kill a horse. Used to be red handle and white stick.
It has a warning y that it can cause a heart attack.. NOW thats some
tickle and it doesn't leave marks.
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Bill 100
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 4:38am |
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oldas, I was just wanting something to use more as a visual aide, that would leave an impression. Something cheap, I could pick up at a yard sale for maybe $5. Some will back away, and those that don't, then I will pull a gun. If I have the option, I would like to use minimum force and work my way up. I would be looking not to get that close to people to use a tazer or anything like that. Plus I would not want to invest the money in a tazer, it's just not my kind of weapon.
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 11:39am |
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Well, Bill you have a good pocket knife? I would be happy to ship you a
nice chunk of hickory or walnut to whittle on. A while back I bought my
mom an aluminum bat at an auction for $5. Long story but she clubbed
a wood chuck to death with a frying pan that was eating her
flowers. Thought the bat would be better. How about a frog spear?
Cheap at Wallmart and good visual impression. I'd be more scared
of that that a bat.
Another option is the first round being birdshot. Shot at their legs it would sting bad but not hurt much. That way you don't have to gewt close and hearing a gunshot would make a BIG impression. |
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 4:29am |
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Wouldn't it be more merciful to just shoot them, as our American friends would?
Beth
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Scotty
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 4:52am |
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But Beth, that would be illegal.
I couldn't bring myself to kill someone anyway, I would just be causing them to live much shorter lives. We obviously don't have any boabuilders aboard this forum else they would have advised me to draw the line at Iroko. Its one of those "wish I was dead" dusts. |
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Bill 100
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 5:09am |
oldas, have you ever been a door to door salesman ? I know what I want.
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 6:10am |
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I don't think these people are going to be selling anything.
Those guys are annoying but nothing like a gangbanger trying to
get your stuff.
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 6:15am |
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Scotty, Wopuld you please speak english?
Boabuilders? Iroko? You don't haveto shoot anyone- just confuse him to the point of jumping overboard. |
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Bill 100
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 6:19am |
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Bill 100
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 6:22am |
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 7:00am |
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Bill, Well Gee your taking all the fun out of it. Now if you met
them at the door wearing a chefs hat, sharpening a long knife and
scuba flippers with a necklace of rubber fingers and say "come on
in, come on it, your just in time for supper" with very wide
eyes.
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Bill 100
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 7:22am |
Hey, what ever works for you, (with your gangbangers) I wish you luck. I prefer a baseball bat, and 9mm. I will also have a 3006 rifle at the door jam.
I don't expect everybody that knocks at my door to be gangbangers. Do you live near a City.
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 7:43am |
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What works for me? I'll drop them with a high power if they cross
the fence 200 yards away. We live in the country. There are
signs--ALL TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT Don't need no bat
signs say it all. only printed in english . Don't read english- sorry
bout that. Too late to learn now.
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Scotty
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Posted: August 03 2006 at 8:20am |
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Oldasrocks: Iroko is a timber with very similar qualities to teak at a quarter of the price. Excellent for durability in any weather. When sawn this stuff creates extremely irritating dust that causes coughing, sneezing, tears, nausea etcetera.
Epoxy Resin, without the hardener, is very irritating to the skin and causes extreme itching. I'm sure that there are a whole host of other nasties that I have not yet considered but certainly two breaths of cyanide laced smoke would render most people incapable of any form of violence. All of my defences are for close quarters and would be useless as a perimeter defence system. |
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oldasrocks wrote: