steve 101 wrote: in Spanish flu great results were got be using Symphytum while very ill and sending the patients home with a bottle of Gelsemium

According to this article - http://www.herbaltherapeutics.net/Favorite_Remedies.pdf - Gelsemium was the most commonly used homeopathic remedy in 1918, followed by Eupatorium, aconite, bryonia and cimicfuga (black cohosh).  Symphytum was apparently only rarely used (at least for influenza - I haven't yet digested the pneumonia treatments).

Vitamin D

February 24, 2006

"The story starts about a decade ago, when research
revealed that the immune system of fruit flies produces a protein that
attacks bacteria and fungi, explained study author Dr. Robert L. Modlin,
chief of dermatology at the University of California, Los Angeles.

"In 1999, it became clear that there were equivalents in humans, a family
of proteins," Modlin said. "Each recognizes a defined biochemical from a
bacterium or virus."

Studies showed that in mice, the defense involved production of nitric
oxide to fight infection. However, that was not found to happen in human
cells, Modlin said.

Four years of work led to the finding that the human defense mechanism
involves vitamin D, he said. White blood cells are stimulated to convert
ordinary vitamin D -- which is produced, in large part, by exposure to
sunlight -- into an active form that is used to make a protein that kills
the tuberculosis bacteria.

"Our other main finding was that African-Americans, who are known to
be more susceptible to tuberculosis, have lower levels of vitamin D in
their blood," Modlin said. Melanin, the pigment that darkens skin,
absorbs the ultraviolet rays of sunlight, reducing vitamin D production in
blacks, he explained.

Cells grown in blood serum from black individuals produced 63 percent
less of the bacteria-fighting protein than those grown in blood serum
from white people. Adding vitamin D to the cultures increased production
of the protein, Modlin said.

One question raised by the discovery is whether giving vitamin D to
humans can do the same thing, he said, adding, "Were hoping this paper
will raise interest in that."


http://www.healthday.com/view.cfm?id=531184

In my very humble opinion, I will say one of the few items I will stock myself with in order to prevent the bird flu will be oregano oil.  IT is one of the most potent anti viral, anti bacterial natural remedies in nature, a few drops under the tongue will work wonders.  I am also looking at natural herbs, fruits and other resources out there which possess the ability to penetrate  the lipid envelope the avian flu is structured and surrounded with.  Kimchee can be considered a form of probiotics which helps the digestive system, not sure about its efectiveness against the avian strain flu.

OK.  I did a little more research.  Star Anise is different from what I munched on as a kid.  It is actually kind of pretty looking.  Here it is:

Tamiflu is supposedly made with an extract of Chinese Star Anise...

I came across this article on a "remedy".  I am not recommending this as a cure, just something of interest for everyone to read.  Apparently the recommended mixture is the same thing as Korean Kimchi.  The article says:,

"According to reports, South Korean scientists have fed kimchi to chickens infected with bird flu - and some of them have recovered. "

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12 _1883429,00.html

Here is the beginning:

Cape Town - A concoction of spicy herbs could help boost resistance to the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu, Inkatha Freedom Party MP Ruth Rabinowitz suggested on Friday.

Raising concerns in the national assembly about the government's preparedness to deal with the disease if it spreads to South Africa, she said the drug Tamiflu, used in the treatment of bird flu in humans, was derived from a herb.

"It is... of interest to note that Tamiflu itself derives from an Indian herb, and in South Korea scientists claim that a mixture of red pepper, radish, garlic and ginger increases the resistance, both in birds and humans, to the disease.

 

 

Thanks Rick, good stuff!

http://www.med-owl.com/herbal-antivirals/tiki-index.php?page =H5N1+Avian+Flu

 

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/flu.htm

 

Very through info on Antivirals and Herbal H5N1 treatment.

killer flu

have sent a PM

hi killer flu

A thought. if anyone has a sample of the current BF strain it will be

Nelsons homeopathic Pharmacy, 73 Duke st, Grosvenor Sq,London.

 Suggest you give them a ring. If they have it ask for highest potency they can make. They make and export worldwide

They probably have an ebola nosode too if you are interested

Let me now how you go

  Hey guys check out wild oregano oil, it's suppose to be a good alternative to flu treatment,colds and a lot of other illinesses.

I found this about Elderberries. Good or bad? I think Bad. You decide.
Black Elderberry

Trade name: Sambucol (cached)        &nbs p;    

history
There is evidence that black elderberry extract (trade name: Sambucol) can reduce the risk of contracting ordinary influenza strains, or shorten the course of disease in those who contract the typical flu.

It does so by increasing the production of inflammatory cytokines like IL-1, IL-6, and TNF. PMID:12455180 (cache). PMID:11399518 (cache).

While black elderberry extract be appropriate for ordinary Type A influenza, it could make avian flu more lethal. Ordinary strains of flu do not trigger massive production of TNF, and ordinary flu viruses are generally susceptible to the action of TNF. Avian flu, by contrast, does trigger massive production of TNF (as much as a 45x increase), while the virus is relatively resistant to the anti-viral effects of TNF. If TNF is a significant cause of the illness and mortality in avian flu, anything that increases TNF would be undesirable.

It has been pointed out that black elderberry does not just increase TNF and other cytokines. It also may reduce the spread of the virus through inactivation, or exert anti-inflammatory effects as well as contributing to the cytokine storm. It may be that combining elberberry with other anti-inflammatories may allow it to check the infection without producing tissue destroying levels of cytokines. But there is insufficient evidence to make a solid conclusion, while there are significant red flags that should be raised about the mode of action of elderberry.
Disclaimer Topics Page Copyright



Edited by Enumclaw,WA

I don't know about the brand but I use honey as you stated all the time.  One of natures grand foods.  Along with onions, that unfortunately I can't stomach.

It is also the ingredient that I cut my homemade elderberry extract with: 50% elderberry extract 50% raw honey.

Thanks again Twig... another valuable contribution!

SZ

http://www.itmonline.org/ 

Here is another link to a Chinese Herbal Medicine site.  Check the article in the center of the page re Chinese Herbal Medicines response the Influenza. The Dr. that is the founder of "Seven Forests" brand of herbs uses TCM, Western herbs as well as other modalaties, such as ayurevedic herbs.  He is a chemist and has taken herbal analysis and treatment to a whole new level.  If your a TCM practioner and you want results, you carry this brand. He puts together formulas based on not only TCM theory and concepts but on through chemical analysis, does extensive laboratory testing on compounds, double blind studies etc. His formulas are second to none.  The website has sections for herbal study and further info. 

As an asside, my daughter got a nasty flu like bug last week. Yellow sticky cough, stuffy nose, fever, HA... (Obviously NOT H5N1) Usually this bug has been knocking people out chills fever, body aches, nasty cough w/ chest congestion, and hanging on for weeks. We used a Seven Forests formula spesific to her S&S and it was gone in four days. No cough, no congestion, nothing. Nope it wasn't just a cold.  This is what I'm stocking up on, will be giving to my kids and patients.  Check out the site.  It lists herbal formulas and treatments for Influenza. Although H5N1 is obviously different from the "normal" flu, the treatment theory still applies.  You can also buy the book called "Bag of Pearls" that have all the formulas listed with S&S that may make finding what you want easier.  I don't know if you can purchase the herbs on this site but you can google "Seven Forests Herbs" and find a seller. Hope this is of some help.  Peace.

I did 1/3 dried elderberries to 2/3 vodka (clear at least 80 proof).  Soak a week, in a dark, cool place, shaking twice a day.  After a week, I whisked them with my hand blender and let them soak two more weeks.  Dark, cool place, shaken twice a day.

At the end of three weeks I strained them into sterile canning jars and tucked them away. 

BTW: I only did 10 lbs, the other 10 I am holding in abeyance.

Does This Anti-Viral Herb Hold The Key To Treating The Worlds Deadliest Viruses...
Avian Bird Flu, Ebola and HIV?

Well before the Avian flu became headline news, medical researchers have been researching compounds in medicinal herbs that already have shown clinical results treating viral infections. By isolating the natural compound(s) that demonstrate the strongest effect against a specific virus such as the H5N1 virus the can then synthesis the molecule and develop a new drug.

Twenty Centuries of Effective Anti-Viral Use

Canadian researchers⁽¹⁾ have been investigating a number of the compounds from the anti-viral herb Andrographis Paniculata. (English Name: Creat , Green Chirayta, King of bitters.) With over 20 centuries of use in Chinese Medicine treating colds, flu and respiratory infections    Andrographis Paniculata herbal extract has in modern times become a main treatment by doctors in Scandinavia for flu, colds and sinusitis.

Slowing Deadly Virus Replication

Previous research⁽²⁾ demonstrated that Andrographolides (the standardized compounds in Andrographis Paniculata herbal extract reduce a viruses ability to replicate by inhibiting the production of glycoprotein in the flu virus.

Building on this knowledge they isolated several of the individual Andrographolide compounds and performed further testing. Many of the compounds proved helpful but one, 14-dehydoandrographolide, showed the greatest effect of against H5N1 Avian flu virus, Ebola Virus, and RSV⁽³⁾.

Other Herbs Have Similar Anti-Viral Effect on Flu and Cold Viruses

Andrographis Paniculata is not the only plant in which scientist have discovered the ability to inhibit viral glycoprotein slowing its replication. Another plant is Schizandra Chinesis has a  Dibenzocyclooctadiene lingnans in it's extract which also inhibits viral glycoprotein⁽⁴⁾.

Of course there are other plants which have demonstrated anti-viral activity through different mechanisms and against other viruses. For example the compounds Oleuropein & Lucidumoside in Lingustum Lucidum have an anti-viral activity against parainfluenza, Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), herpes mononucleosis, hepatitis virus, rotovirus, bovine rhinovirus, canine parvovirus and feline leukaemia virus in human.

The Good News and Bad News

First the bad news. In spite of all the activity around avian flu most likely it will be years before a pharmaceutical company delivers such a drug to market. Which will only occur when they can produce a unique drug over which they have sole patent rights.

The good news is that a lot of research is happening through out the world to find and develop vaccines, drugs and medicinal plants that may hold the key to fighting many deadly viruses.

You Can Fight Common Cold & Flu Viruses With Anti-Viral herbs

While Avian Flu may be getting the headlines, everyday flu and common colds affect millions during flu season. Fortunately the full spectrum plant extracts mentioned above are available as over the counter dietary supplements.

All have a long history of safe with remarkable studies revealing results such as; reducing the risk of colds by 2.1X, shortening the duration of flu by 87% over the amatadine control group and improving cold symptoms by 535%.
Click to Learn More.

Research References

1. Ajoy BASAK, Mei ZHONG, Jon S. MUNZER, Michel CHRETIEN and Nabil G. SEIDAH, Implication of the proprotein convertases furin, PC5 and PC7 in the cleavage of surface glycoproteins of Hong Kong, Ebola and respiratory syncytial viruses: a comparative analysis with fluorogenic peptides.  Laboratory of Molecular Medicine and Disease of Ageing Centre, Loeb Health Research Institute, Ottawa Civic Hospital, and Laboratory of Biochemical Neuroendocrinology, and the Protein Engineering Network of Centres of Excellence, Clinical Research Institute of Montreal.

2. Yao, X. J., Wainberg, M. A. and Parniak, M. A. (1992) Virology 187, 56±62

3. Basak A, Cooper S, Roberge AG, et al. Inhibition of proprotein convertases-1, -7 and furin by diterpines of Andrographis paniculata and their succinoyl esters. Biochem J 1999;338 ( Pt 1):107-113.

4. Pan Q, Lu Q, Zhang K, Hu X. Dibenzocyclooctadiene lingnans: a class of novel inhibitors of P-glycoprotein. Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2005 Oct 18;:1-8

5. Fredrickson W. R., U.S. Patent 6117844; Appl. No. 668324; September
12, 2000.

6. Shuang-Cheng MA, Zhen-Dan HE, Xue-Long DENG, Paul Pui-Hay BUT, Vincent Eng-Choon OOI, Hong-Xi XU, Spencer Hon-Sun LEE and Song-Fong LEE In Vitro Evaluation of Secoiridoid Glucosides from the Fruits of Ligustrum lucidum as Antiviral Agents.  Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 2001 Nov;49(11):1471-3.

Oscillococcinum (Anas Barbariae): Works well when taken at the first signs of the flu! A French study in 1989 reported a significant improvement in symptoms compared to the placebo control group. Typically, the influenza virus runs its course in one or two weeks. However, one study suggests that the homeopathic remedy Oscillococcinum -- formulated from heart and liver extracts of a species of duck -- may effectively reduce flu symptoms and duration in as little as 48 hours. This study, published in 1998 in the British Homeopathic Journal, sought to determine if this remedy could eliminate symptoms faster or improve overall conditions to a greater degree than placebo. At the study's 48-hour mark, it was shown that 19.2% of those taking Oscillococcinum (as 1 dose of 200 globules taken sublingually three times daily for three days) displayed no flu symptoms, with 43.7% showing clear improvements. At 7-10 days, it was found that 80.1% displayed no flu symptoms. For optimal effects, it is recommended that adults and children 2 years and over dissolve the entire contents of one tube in the mouth every 6 hours, up to 3 times a day.

Flu Prevention - Fending Off the Flu

By Allen S. Josephs, M.D.

It is estimated that about 36,000 people in this country die every year from the flu. It is further estimated that there are approximately 200,000 hospitalizations every year relating to the flu. Although these numbers seem scary, they pale in comparison to prior outbreaks. From 1918 to 1919, there was an outbreak of Spanish influenza in the United States that killed about 500,000. An estimated 40 million people died worldwide from the 1918 flu pandemic. With such factors as air travel, crowded cities, and population levels that are much higher, if a similar deadly virus hit us today, the death toll could be quite significant. Although it would seem from the news that everyone gets a flu shot, in point of fact, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that only about 5-20% of the U.S. population is inoculated for the flu.

The flu typically spreads via respiratory droplets that occur when you are around someone who is coughing or sneezing. It should be noted that when you become infected with the virus, it may be one day before you have symptoms. By that time, you are already able to start spreading the virus. Additionally, the virus can be spread for up to a week after developing outward signs of the flu. The typical symptoms of the flu include fever, muscle ache, sore throat, headache, and runny or stuffy nose. Sometimes, there can be gastrointestinal symptoms, such as nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. The main problem with the flu is the complications from superimposed pneumonia, along with a worsening in chronic medical conditions, such as diabetes, asthma, or heart failure.

Flu Prevention Tips

• Avoid people with the flu
• Wash hands frequently using soap and hot water, for at least 15 seconds
• Rest at least 6 to 8 hours each night.
• No smoking.
• drinking enough fluids (1-2 quarts daily, especially water).
• Eat a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, while avoiding sugar, fructose and simple carbs.
• Take vitamins and supplements that will help boost immune function

There is one surefire way not to contract the flu and that is basically to stay at home and avoid contact with other human beings. Since this is obviously not a reasonable option, there are other things that one can do. It is extremely important that you frequently wash your hands with soap and hot water for at least 15 seconds, as the virus can get on your hands, and you can develop the infection by touching your eyes or nose. During the flu season, which typically runs from late-November to March, it is essential that you get enough rest and eat properly. Avoiding sugar, fructose and simple carbs is a good idea, as they can lower immune function. It is also very important to receive adequate bed rest (at least 6-8 hours each night), avoid smoking, and to drink plenty of fluids, at least 1-2 quarts daily, especially water.

Finally, it is extremely important to take vitamins and nutritional supplements to help boost immune function. A good multi-nutrient product, such as one of the Synergy multi-vitamins/nutrients from Nutraceutical Sciences Institute (NSI), would be recommended. Synergy contains natural carotenoids, Ester-C , L-Opti-Zinc , selenium in a superior form and dose, and natural vitamin E, plus many other nutrients beneficial for immunity. Synergy should be supplemented with daily doses of garlic , which has tremendous antiviral and bacterial properties. Additionally, white tea has incredible antioxidant, antiviral, and antibacterial benefits. There is another product from NSI called MGC-5 , which contains four separate standardized mushroom extracts -- shiitake, maitake, cordyceps and reishi -- along with a highly purified form of beta glucan (90% pure vs. many that are under 1%) from baker's yeast. These nutrients have been shown in multiple clinical trials to help boost immune function, which is critical in helping to ward off the flu and other similar conditions.

Many of you may have heard about the benefits of MGN-3 from Japan. Unfortunately, the company that marketed this product ran afoul of FDA regulations by making cancer treatment claims. Vitacost has a small amount of MGN-3 left, and once it is sold, we have no way to obtain anymore. There is another product from Japan called AHCC (Active Hexose Correlated Compound) with excellent studies to support immune system benefits. It is similar to MGN-3, and is derived from mushrooms. A typical dosage would be two capsules per day, for a total daily dose of 1,000 mg. Another product that is not only a powerful antioxidant, but that can also help boost energy levels and immune function, is that of standardized olive leaf extract.

For those of you who are unfortunate enough to contract the flu, I would recommend taking supplemental zinc and echinacea (Nature's Way EchinaGuard liquid is the best, and has over 180 studies to support it; others probably do not work), along with additional doses of vitamin C. In addition, there is an interesting homeopathic product called Oscillococcinum by Boiron . Clinical studies have shown that when taken at the first signs of the flu, this product can not only reduce the severity, but also the duration of the influenza attack. As an allopathic physician, I must say that I know very little about homeopathy, and merely present this to you as a potential option. Another excellent product with clinical studies to support its benefit is elderberry. The effect on the influenza virus by a syrup made from the berries of the black elderberry has been studied in a double-blind trial. People receiving an elderberry extract (2 tablespoons [30 ml] per day for children; 4 tablespoons [60 ml] per day for adults) appeared to recover faster than those receiving a placebo. Nature's Way's Sambucol is the actual product these studies were conducted with, and it actually tastes really good. It is a liquid syrup (no swallowing of pills) and extremely safe, so even small children and the elderly can benefit from it. Having read the data on these products, I do plan to have them in my house to be utilized at the first onset of the flu. My foundational supplement regimen consists of a Synergy multi-vitamin that contains the beta glucan, standardized mushroom extracts, and the other nutrients I have talked about. The goal is to reduce my risk of getting sick, and if I do get sick, to reduce the severity and duration.

http://heartspring.net/cold_flu_prevention.html

Echinacea tea blend shortens duration of cold symptoms

In a double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical study of 95 people, treatment with an echinacea tea preparation (Echinacea Plus®, Traditional Medicinals) early in the course of a cold or flu was significantly more effective in relieving symptoms than a placebo tea. For the 90-day study, participants reported for assignment to one of two treatment groups at the first onset of cold and flu symptoms (scratchy throat, runny nose, fever, etc.). The subjects drank 5 to 6 cups a day of echinacea or placebo tea on the first day of symptoms, reducing the dosage to 1 cup per day for the next five days. Results were assessed with a questionnaire that measured symptom relief, duration of symptoms, and time before subjects noticed a difference in symptoms. The echinacea tea was significantly more effective than placebo in all parameters measured. No side effects were reported in either group. Echinacea Plus is a proprietary blend of E. purpurea and E. angustifolia leaves, flowers, and stems, a water soluble dry extract of E. purpurea root, and flavoring herbs. Eater's Digest® (Traditional Medicinals) was selected as the placebo tea because it was not expected to have a significant effect on cold or flu symptoms at the dosages used in this study. Among other herbs, Eater's Digest contains cinnamon, ginger, and peppermint. Lindenmuth GF, Lindenmuth EB.

The efficacy of echinacea compound herbal tea preparation on the severity and duration of upper respiratory and flu symptoms: a randomized, double-blind placebo-controlled study.

This article originally appeared in The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine 2000; 6(4): 327-334.

---

Body Chills - Cold Noses Can Reduce Ability To Fight Viral Infections

By the Journal of Family Practice 2005; 23:

Mom was right, say British researchers. Getting a chill can bring on a cold. So bundle up and keep your feet warm and dry.

Infectious disease specialists may ridicule the hoary concept that cold wet feet can trigger the symptoms of a common cold. Viruses cause these infections, not wet feet, they argue. But a team headed by Ronald Eccles, Ph.D., D.Sc., of Cardiff University here is recommending a new look.

Dr. Eccles said the results of a randomized study bear out a two-pronged hypothesis: that many of us carry around a subclinical cold infection and that chilling the feet opens the door for it to become a full-blown cold.

A hundred years ago, doctors would have said that a chill clearly leads to infection, he said. People then would have been both more exposed to the elements when they were outside and less likely to have a nice, centrally heated home in which to take shelter, he said. "We're better protected now," Dr. Eccles said, so we may not see the chill-cold connection as clearly.

But when he and a colleague deliberately chilled subjects -- by dipping their feet in ice water -- they found that those who got their feet cold and wet were significantly more likely to develop symptoms of a cold over the next four or five days than were those who just put their feet in an empty bowl.

The researchers randomized 180 healthy participants to 20 minutes of water at 10 degrees C or an empty bowl. In the current issue of the journal Family Practice, they reported:

* There was no difference in acute cold symptoms immediately after the experiment.

* After a few days, 13 of the 90 participants who were chilled reported they were suffering from the symptoms of a cold, compared with five of the 90 controls. The result was statistically significant at p = 0.047.

* The 18 participants who came down with symptoms of a cold also reported that they were more likely to suffer colds during the year than did the 162 who remained healthy. The result was statistically significant at p = 0.007.

"When colds are circulating in the community, for every person you see who is symptomatic, there are two or three who have a sub-clinical infection," Dr. Eccles said. "It's those people who are prone to developing a common cold when they are chilled -- they've already got the virus, but the chilling is actually reducing their respiratory defense."

It's well known, he said, that chilling the feet causes vasoconstriction in the nose. That has two common cold-producing effects, he says. It reduces number of immune cells available in the nasal epithelium and slows down mucociliary clearance, allowing infectious agents more time to do their dirty work.

The finding may vindicate moms everywhere, but it flies in the face of research dating back nearly 40 years that appeared to rule out the chill/cold connection.

In those studies, researchers chilled subjects and then challenged some of them with a cold-causing virus. The result: controls and chill victims came down with colds at about the same rate.

But, says Dr. Eccles, those studies had two main flaws -- they were small and they didn't reflect the real-world situation, where a horde of viruses circulates, sometimes causing disease and sometimes not.

Dr. Eccles pointed out that this study does not address infection with a virus but only the development of symptoms after exposure. "The results of the present study demonstrate that chilling is associated with the onset of common cold symptoms but the study does not provide any objective evidence, such as virology, that the subjects were infected with a common cold virus."

The next step for his research, he said, would be to couple the chilling study with tests to see which viruses are actually causing the illness in those who come down with a cold.

That may not be easy: "When you're dealing with (wild-type) colds, you never know which virus you're dealing with and it's fairly difficult to isolate and identify the viruses," he said. But technology is improving, he added, so that work may soon be possible.

He'd also like to see what happens in more extreme situations: "Dipping your feet in cold water for 20 minutes is not really a severe chilling," Dr. Eccles said.

Primary source: Family Practice
Source reference:
Johnson C and Eccles R. Acute cooling of the feet and the onset of common
cold symptoms. Fam. Pract. 2005; 23:

Edited by KillerFlu.net

Thank you for the welcome - I have no clue how to use a blog and that was my first posting.

Where do you buy dried elderberries?  I have the tinctures. 

fyi

Shortcut to: http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=65394
Sambucol fights bird flu virus in lab

By Dominique Patton   26/01/2006
Sambucol, a standardized extract of black elderberry, has been found to fight the avian flu virus H5N1, revealed British researchers last week.

A team at Retroscreen Virology, an institute associated with the University of London, said that the extract was at least 99 per cent effective against the H5N1 virus and significantly neutralized the infectivity of the virus in cell cultures.

Dr Madeleine Mumcuoglu, the Israel-based developer of Sambucol, said the good results confirmed her earlier findings on the product, which is currently marketed around the world as a natural supplement for fighting common flu.

“It is active against lots of different types of flu viruses and I did my PhD on its effect on a non-virulent strain of bird flu so the results did not surprise me,” she told NutraIngredients.com.

“But I'm very happy with these results, especially as the work was done by Dr John Oxford, a reputable specialist in flu,” she added.

Dr Mumcuoglu stressed that the results could in no way demonstrate a benefit for humans infected with the bird flu strain that has killed more than 70 people, mostly in South East Asia, since the outbreak began in 2003. Nor will she be able to test it in a human trial.

But she is looking into starting an animal trial using ferrets, which have similar flu symptoms to humans.
Dr Mumcuoglu added that bird flu is still a lower threat than common flu, thought to kill about 25,000 people in the UK alone each year through complications.

While the new bird flu results are likely to boost sales of Sambucol, it is the evidence from two human clinical trials that has created a significant market for the product. The double blind, placebo-controlled studies – the first done in Israel, and the second in Norway – both found that people who took the elderberry supplement got rid of flu in half the time of the placebo group, or after two to three days compared to about six.

Dr Mumcuoglu says Sambucol blunts the haemaglutinin spikes on the outside of viruses and stops them from entering cells where they reproduce, cause the cell to explode and allow the virus to continue invading the body.

An in vitro study has also shown Sambucol to be effective in increasing the production of four inflammatory cytokines, suggesting that the supplement may have an immuno-stimulatory effect and therefore be worth taking all year round to prevent flu and other disease.

Jerusalem-based Razei Bar Industries now produces more than 1.5 million bottles of Sambucol syrup, with average growth of 10 per cent each year.

"I didn't invent anything," claims Dr Mumcuoglu. "Elderberry has been known from the beginning of time. What people didn't know is what the active ingredient is, how to keep it intact and how to formulate to keep it active."

This active substance has not been patented to protect the firm's market. While several copycat products are available in healthstores, Razei Bar says it has found none of the active ingredient in several of these products.

The new laboratory results were presented at a press conference held in the Royal Society of Medicine, London last week. Another trial is now underway at Hadassah Medical Organization Ein Kerem in Israel.

  There is a great book on the market on Natural remedies for all types of illiness,  including the flu.  Justt might be something in there that could help us out.  The title  is     Back to Eden., there is another book i just ordered off the net name Killer Bird Flu, by John Hart.  It has a lot of good information in it about alternative tre atments for the bird flu.  I find it a worth while book to have. 

Manufactured medicines can have side affects, there is dose info and contraindication stuff available. Is the same true for herbal remedies? Not when it comes to information it seems, that one of the reasons you may get a negative response on this stuff I guess.

I was looking around for some documentation dealing with Symphytum use in 1918, and I found this instead, is this stuff we should highlight here so people can make balanced judgements?

Firstly from a BBC Herbal guide (maybe the anti-inflammatory properties are its potentially useful action):

Comfrey

Symphytum officinale
Source: roots and leaves.
Actions: heals wounds and burns, anti-inflammatory, astringent.
Therapeutic uses: used externally for thousands of years to heal bruises, sprains, fractures, broken bones and skin problems such as acne, boils, scars and rashes. Taken internally for stomach ulcers and respiratory problems.
Typical preparation: cream/ointment, compress, liquid tincture. Leaves may be used as herbal tea.
Contraindications: use is restricted in some countries. Root shouldn't be taken internally. Oil from the leaves shouldn't be applied to open wounds.


Then amore negative report thats apparently from some 193 FDA document thats not current:

"B. Comfrey (Symphytum officinale (common comfrey), S. asperum (prickly comfrey), S. X uplandicum (Russian comfrey))

Preparations of comfrey, a fast-growing leafy plant, are widely sold in the United States as teas, tablets, capsules, tinctures, medicinal poultices, and lotions. Since 1985, at least seven cases of hepatic veno-occlusive disease--obstruction of blood flow from the liver with potential scarring (cirrhosis)--including one death, have been associated with the use of commercially available oral comfrey products.

Comfrey, like a number of other plants (e.g., Senecio species), contains pyrrolizidine alkaloids. The toxicity of pyrrolizidine alkaloids to humans is well-documented. Hepatic veno-occlusive disease following ingestion of pyrrolizidine alkaloid-containing products, has been documented repeatedly throughout the world. Hepatic veno-occlusive disease is usually acute and may result in fatal liver failure. In less severe cases, liver disease may progress to a subacute form. Even after apparent recovery, chronic liver disease, including cirrhosis, has been noted. Individuals who ingest small amounts of pyrrolizidine alkaloids for a prolonged period may also be at risk for development of hepatic cirrhosis. The diagnosis of pyrrolizidine alkaloid-induced hepatic veno-occlusive disease is complex, and the condition is probably underdiagnosed.

The degree of injury caused by pyrrolizidine alkaloid-containing plants, like comfrey, is probably influenced by such factors as the age of the user, body mass, gender, and hepatic function, as well the total cumulative dose ingested and the type of exposure (i.e., whether exposure was to leaves or roots, infusions or capsules). Infants in general appear to be particularly susceptible to adverse effects of exposure to pyrrolizidine alkaloids; there are reports of infants developing hepatic veno-occlusive disease following acute exposure of less than one week. Transplacental pyrrolizidine poisoning has been suggested by the occurrence of hepatic disease in the newborn infant of a woman who consumed herbal tea during pregnancy.

Although liver damage is the major documented form of injury to humans from pyrrolizidine alkaloid-containing herbals, animal studies suggest that their toxicity is much broader. Animals exposed to pyrrolizidine alkaloids have developed a wide range of pulmonary, kidney and gastro-intestinal pathologies. Pyrrolizidine alkaloid-containing plants, including comfrey, have also been shown to cause cancer in laboratory animals.

Four countries (the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, and Germany) have recently restricted the availability of products containing comfrey, and other countries permit use of comfrey only under a physician's prescription."

Is this Comfry stuff even the Symphytum that you mention in your first post?

Edited by elbows

You'll have a nightmare trying to hold mesages on these topics to a high standard of scientific proof.

SophiaZoes request above seems reasonable. steve101's 'the proof is in the pudding' is of no meaning in a discussion about preventatives that target bird flu specifically. Compounds that have some track record of helping with normal influenza, or symptoms associated with H5N1 in humans so far, are interesting to think about, but will not necessarily do much good against a pandemic if there is a different mechanism at work that makes the pandemic flu so deadly.

Garlic and Elderberry are two natural things that my brief research on this subject suggests may make sense, I'll post details another day. Im in no way sure how effective they might be.

And as far as I can think, natural remedy solution logic will face the same cytokine-storm dilemma as other medicines. Namedly that people are not sure how much, and in what areas they need to boost their immune system, and in what ways if any they should try to supress their immune system to prevent cytokine storm.

I see no obvious end to this dilemma so people who are aware and undecided about it may face the nightmare of being undecided on which substances to take until its actually time to take them.