My Teen Has H1N1

Flumom I'm so sorry to hear that your son is sick. I'm glad that you had the meds on hand that you needed when he became ill. I see why you stress always be prepared. I hope by morning that he is doing better.

flumom, hope your boy gets well soon. My best Coyote

I’m thinking of you!  I’ve been a longtime lurker here and–your posts along with a few others posters only reason I come back , they’ve helped me the most and really trust you and your view.  Good luck, I’m sure he’ll be fine with your great care!

FluMom, if it's any consolation, my sister in law works for Kaiser and said most of her patients have been testing positive with H1N1, but to her knowledge none of them have been hospitalized and recovered after a week or so. She also said she has been exposed / coughed on by these patients, and has yet to come down with H1N1 virus.    

Hope all is well with your son and family this morning!

FluMom wrote: Well my teen came down with H1N1. He suddenly felt sick at school got him home temp of 100.8 gave Benedryl and Mucinex. Had a cough,nasal congestion and a bad headache. I checked him at 2:30 he had a temp of 102.8. Gave him Tamiflu. At 5:30 temp of 103.1 gave Motrin At 6:30 temp of 104. Gave two Tylenol. By 8:00 his temp is now normal.   I will check him every two hours tonight. I will complete the Tamiflu and keep him home the rest of the week. I figure it is H1N1 because... Sudden onset, cough, congestion, headache, high temp. Dr. most likely would have sent him home with same diagnosis or at the least he has a virus. Well Tamiflu will work on that too. I will not take chances with my son's life.

I know Flu Mom we have been on this for years and it would seem that which has concerned us is coming to us here in America and is no longer a Bird Flu 12,000 miles away.
I empathize, since Skye got it several days ago,  but have you taken your son to see a doctor? Are you a doctor?

Your son needs to be seen by a doctor, blood drawn, x-rays done, a swab, and other tests. To just give a child Tamiflu with no medical intervention sets a poor example for all the readers of this site. At 102 your son should have been in ER- at least called the triage nurse and at 104 more aggressive treatment (as per M.D. decision) should be done. What is his white blood cell count, is there pleural effusion in the lung- how bad is the congestion? These are things we cannot evaluate ourselves without tests, doctors, and medical treatment.

I sincerely doubt any ER doc would send him home with 104 temp.

Flu Mom in the gentlest of ways- you are taking a chance with his life. He needs to be seen. Tamiflu can have serious side effects and it is up to a physician whether or not to give it. He could have other lung problems which require immediate IV intervention for secondary infections with antibiotics. 

IMHO parents out there- if your child displays these symptoms immediately call a triage nurse and go through the checklist and determine if your child needs to come in. Do not give Tamiflu without a doctors prescription. Do have tests and diagnostics done. Do not panic because at that point you become an ineffective caregiver.

When Skye spiked a 104 fever and was coughing, as much as I do not like hospitals- to the doctor he went.

Medclinician

Flumom!!! Oh dear!! Im thinking about you and your son. I think you did right please please keep us updated hourly would be fine!

Med, we are going into a pandemic, and this is why some people have an emergency supply of Tamiflu.  If you're not going to use it during a pandemic, exactly when will you?  It's a matter of pandemic preparedness.  In My case, my elderly father of 70 got the flu a week ago and so I put him on it and he did fine.  The last two times he got the flu he was on a ventilator, but not this time.   A close friend of mine has a compromised immune system, and when she became ill a couple of week ago, I put her on it as well.  She still did not recover easily, but it worked.  Both of these two are in a "high risk" category.  I also told them both that they now owed me their lives, lol 

Technologist wrote: I'm pretty sure FluMom had her doc give her Tamiflu months ago. This was around the same time my doc gave everyone in my family a script for Relenza. All the hype about Tamiflu and Relenza being useless is not helping. I'm not saying they will cure you and they might only reduce the symptoms. Flumom also stated the 104 temp dropped to normal so it's her call if she feels he needs an ER visit.

Both CDC and WHO have said that this prescribing of an antiviral to a patient who doesn't even have the disease is not responsible medicine. New guideline just released .. was it Tuesday - have stressed the need for doctors- not self medicating civilians to be the one who monitor the use of these drugs.

Yes, they may save your life- but the development of a resistant strain may cost 10,000 others theirs. By the way Relenza was a good choice Tech. Although we now have resistant strains to it as well- it is more effective - especially systemic. I know you guys have your own stash of this stuff and probably will make it while the masses are dying- but we will have nothing to give them because of it.

The hype...

Albert wrote: Med, we are going into a pandemic, and this is why some people have an emergency supply of Tamiflu.  If you're not going to use it during a pandemic, exactly when will you?  It's a matter of pandemic preparedness.  In My case, my elderly father of 70 got the flu a week ago and so I put him on it and he did fine.  The last two times he got the flu he was on a ventilator, but not this time.   A close friend of mine has a compromised immune system, and when she became ill a couple of week ago, I put her on it as well.  She still did not recover easily, but it worked.  Both of these two are in a "high risk" category.  I also told them both that they now owed me their lives, lol

While we still have a medical system in place- and the ability to run blood tests, x-rays- and especially do swabs to verify the infection- we should use them. The time for this kind of self-medication is when we have exhausted the normal medical system.

Myself, Dr. D., and Dr. JohnRay including my wife, my mother-in-law and my son have all roughed this out twice. Anyone with a compromised immune system should probably already be under a immunologists care and my relative who has HIV is on medicine that kicks anything including HIV to at least suppress the virus.

When a person has run the course of the illness they may become a chronic carrier of the virus- especially H1N1. Just because they have recovered and are fine- does not mean they could not be highly infectious. There is also the chance they would be carrying a strain that is Tamiflu resistant. I just documented in the Netherlands today a case study I got in briefs of a new strain which is resistant to Tamiflu.

People may think they are beating the system- but actually this will come back in a possibly more virulent form and by that time Tamiflu will for 200,000,000 people- almost our whole stockpile to treat anyone - useless.

These people may become spreaders and Albert I understand each one loves their family and this was the plan. But it was the plan after the infrastructure crashed which it may and not when we have perfectly good hospitals and doctors available.

I am not alone in this assessment. I am backed by both CDC and WHO. And I have posted links. If you wish to recommend people diagnose and treat themselves while we still have a medical system- and we need to check out their lungs. We can give Vancomycin and other supportive antibiotics for lung opportunistic infections. We can check mulitple titers with bloods tests and most of all there are people these should not be given to.

It is likely your relative 70 years old was well over the cytokine storm risk and would have recovered anyway. The standard strain of this does not effect people over 60 or under 2.

So for the record and as a health professional I am going on record as saying until there are no doctors or people to screen or triage, people should not be self-medicating. We have not reached a significant CFR to even indicated we are at any more risk than seasonal flu.

Most certainly a good thing for ever person who takes their Tamiflu or your Relenza stash and survives but at the same time may be introducing the foundation of widespread strains of resistant virus.

Tamifu is not just any other anti-viral. There have been some serious problems with it which have been published.

when in doubt- research

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Tamiflu-can-have-bad-side-effects-on-children/articleshow/4879466.cms

The FDA has been reviewing reports of abnormal behavior and other brain effects in more than 1,800 children who had taken the flu medicine Tamiflu. The symptoms have included convulsions, delirium or delusions, and in Japan, five deaths have been reported in children under 16 as a result of neurological or psychiatric problems.There have also been nine deaths among older teens and adults, attributed to neuropsychiatric problems or brain infections. Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg MD - "Swine flu is not very different from normal flu. On the contrary if you look at the number of cases it is nothing compared to a normal flu outbreak.” Swine Flu Vaccination Poses Serious Threat to Your Health. According to a recent Fox News poll, the majority of people in the US now believe the swine flu vaccine may be deadlier than the actual virus. Research published in the August 25, 2009  issue of the British Medical Journal reveals that more than half of doctors and nurses in public hospitals would also refuse the H1N1 vaccine, due to concerns about side effects and doubts about its efficacy.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/112627

Severe stomach cramps, nightmares, hallucinations, diarrhoea, strange behaviour, suicide, and death, these are all known side effects that have been linked with the antiviral drug Tamiflu, over the recent months. Despite being aware of the harm Tamiflu can cause however, this drug is regularly offered to patients displaying symptoms of Swine Flu.

TAMIFLU in the Askapatient database There are 259 ratings for the drug:

This website makes extremely disturbing reading.

One mother had this to say

"Suspected flu

Adverse reactions to Tamiflu

overly tired, lack of appetite, irritable, feeling very weak

My 15-month old son started taking the medication 3 days ago. After the first two doses he started acting weird. He became very hysterical which he had never been before. He refuses to eat even his favourites, he is very pale and weak. Although he has been walking for 3 months now and managed to become steady on his feet, he now falls over nearly with every step he takes. I am going to stop giving him the medication. I would not recommend Tamiflu to anyone!"

Another person reporting side effects said this

"Diagnosed with flu

Adverse Reactions from Tamiflu

Nausea, diarrhoea, vomiting, tiredness, headaches, stomach pains, loss of appetite and mood swings.

I would NOT recommend taking this medicine, would rather get over flu without medication. it is awful, i stopped taking the tablets 5 days ago and im still experiencing all side effects."

There has been 90 confirmed deaths linked to Tamiflu Drug Lib.com Adverse events to Tamiflu.

In the UK two studies found that more than half the children taking Tamiflu had side effects. Of the 248 pupils involved in one study, 51% reported side-effects, including nearly a third (31.2%) who felt very sick, nearly a quarter (24.3%) who suffered headaches and more than a fifth (21.1%) who had stomach pain.

Guardian 31st July 2009 David Batty

"Another study, also published by Eurosurveillance, found that more than half of 85 children in three London schools had side-effects when given the drug as a preventative measure after a classmate was diagnosed.

Of the 45 children who suffered side-effects, 40% reported gastrointestinal problems including nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, stomach pain and cramps, while 18% reported a "neuropsychiatric side-effect" such as poor concentration, inability to think clearly, problems sleeping, feeling dazed or confused, bad dreams or nightmares and "behaving strangely"

Daniel Martin 'Keep using Tamiflu, top doctor urges parents, as he admits children may suffer nightmares and nausea' Daily Mail 31st July 2009 wrote

"The government's chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson has said Tamiflu should still be given to children, despite more than half of young recipients who take the drug suffering side effects such as nausea and nightmares.

The drug being used to fight swine flu can also produce stomach pain, diarrhoea and sleeping problems."

This is the drug that is being offered to everyone regardless to age, medical background or even a firm diagnoses of Swine Flu and can be obtained through a simple phone call and a check list here in the UK.

This is what it is says on the NHS Choices website for those worried they may have Swine Flu

Note: The National Pandemic Flu Service is a self-care service that will asses your symptoms and, if required, provide an authorisation number which can be used to collect antiviral medication from a local collection point. For those who do not have internet access, the same service can be accessed by telephone on:

Telephone: 0800 1 513 100

A simple phone call and a few questions is all it takes to obtain a drug with severe adverse reactions. Alternatively you could order over the Internet.

To prove what a mockery this is my neighbour has just gone online filled in online form and has now a 12 digit reference number for his Tamiflu. My neighbour is fit and well and never takes tablets for anything.It is that easy.

Drug companies cash in once again on the misery of others on a drug which not only is so dangerous that it has the potential to kill but also has been reported to be ineffective.

Virtually all the dominant strain of flu in the United States this season is resistant to the leading antiviral drug Tamiflu, and scientists and health officials are trying to figure out why The New York Times 8th January 2009

More than half of the flu viruses that have been analyzed in the U.S. this season are of the H1N1 strain, said Joseph Bresee, chief of influenza epidemiology and prevention at the U.S.in Atlanta. Virtually all the H1N1 viruses the agency has tested, 72 of 73, are Tamiflu-resistant, he said

Bloomberg 8 Jan 2009. Tamiflu Helpless Against Most U.S. Flu Infections This Season

Dr Jefferson, a Cochrane Collaboration reviewer in Rome, who headed an independent non drug-company conducted review of flu drugs is extremely concerned, he feels that the drug is hugely over rated and in The trouble with Tamiflu by Sarah Boseley - The Guardian Thursday May 7th 2009 he said that he is concerned such drugs could be widely used as the solution to a flu pandemic, at the expense of things that really work – like washing your hands. Jefferson has real fears that if these drugs continue to be handed around like smarties, the virus will evolve and simply become to resistant to treatment.

conclusion: we won't go on. There are thousands of pages. By next February the virus will probably be 100% resistant to Tamiflu.

Medclinician

Wow.  I'm going to have to agree with Med on this one.  This is not an extreme emergency crisis situation at this time.  You can still call the Doctor, you can still get an office visit, you can go to the ER... under the current circumstances I personally don't think anyone but a Doctor should be prescribing/administering prescription medication.  A temp of 104??  That's seriously high and I would hope that H1N1 hysteria does not prevent people from obtaining sound medical treatment when it is readily available.  Not knocking FluMom, I am sure she means well and thinks she is doing best but, well, it just does not seem right to me for untrained medical people to be making that kind of a call until or unless there is some sort of apocalypse and people are forced to resort to making these decisions themselves.  At any rate, I hope he has a full recovery and is well soon.

Flumom, I hope your son is feeling better! Please keep us updated.

FluMom, you and your family are in my prayers tonight.  

I hope you dont get discouraged about taking care of your son as you felt was right and necessary.  Last spring when i had the flu, I called my dr office and was told not to come in but goto quick care and get taken care of by them.  I did and there was at least 50 other people there and I left and treated myself.  I survived.

FluMom you are one heck of a lady! 

Interesting observation, I asked my teen, who usually answers with a yes, no, maybe and un, if two hours after taking the Tamilflu did he feel any different. He said to my surprise he feels better for 6 hous after taking the Tamiflu and then he starts feeling a little worse as time goes on until the next dose. I don't know how this drug works but my kid is as honest and realistic as can be, well with a mom like me what else? But if he feels better I hope this drug is doing what it needs to do...slow the spread of the virus in the body.

Just an observation. Knowledge is power!

Flumom...you take care of your son the way you think is best.  H1N1 can be really serious in children, and it seems you caught the flu in it's initial stages.  Good job, and I hope your son gets better soon.

For whatever it's worth, I've been following the next pandemic for the last 4 years, even before pandemicflu.gov.  Maybe they learned about the threat from me?  Most of what you see today started from us, believe it or not.   Either way, I can assure you all that I know exactly what I'm doing, and I am very familiar with tamiflu, and what to do during a pandemic.  So do me a favor since I've spent the last few years on this thing ... don't worry about what I'm doing, nor question why,  just understand that I know what I'm doing.    I don't have time for people to start second guessing.  It's time to suck it up and to make a tough call when needed. 

Technologist wrote: Albert, If Med and I drive you nuts I wouldn't be upset if you permanently banned me him or both of us. Running forums can be a real pain when half your work is babysitting adults. No hard feelings if I can't log in one day. I'll get the message.

That is your purpose and has been Tech. The only person driving users crazy is you with your constant trolling of my posts and threads.This is done to be so disruptive and annoying to the users (many of which enjoy and read my posts) and this was tried by many incarnations of you before. We know who you are.

Med

   Sounds like you're doing a good job, FluMom. You've been through a lot lately, but the family is lucky to have you around. Best wishes to you all.

Hi FluMom,

I'm glad your Son is doing so much better. Take care of yourself and I'm hoping you're already immune to it.

With the probability that your Son already had the Swine flu. Let's just make a wild guess of 75%-90% chance. Things like ear infections can also give high fevers. Would you still get this years Swine flu shot for him at this point?

I'm asking this because I have two teens and I'm expecting millions of parents in the world might need to make that same decision soon. Now is a great time for a company to market a home kit to see if you already had the swine flu.

Medclinician wrote: That is your purpose and has been Tech. -Snip- We know who you are. Med

Med, You caught me. I'm a 102 year old secret agent working in a nursing home. I'm using my pacemaker tapped into my phone line as a morse code to ASCII modem. I can only type one character per 8 heart beats so in an hour or two.....

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Oh sorry I fell asleep. I'll be back....

Good job, FluMom!!!

I guess my lung specialist must be a real dummy, because he told me that if I had even the slighest hint of the flu to call and they would prescirbe Tamiflu for me, where ever I was at. I am now living in two communities, one by week and the other by weekend.