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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

What Concerns Me

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debbiencusa View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 14 2013 at 3:26pm
        

Body Horrors

Alchemists Gone Bad: What You Should Know About Biological Warfare

By Rebecca Kreston | June 11, 2013 6:45 pm

Spears. Bows and arrows. Swords. Guns. Bombs. Drones. Microbes. The evolution of weapons and forms of warfare shadows our technological advancements, from the field of metallurgy to that of microbiology.

wwii-fdr-propaganda-poster-1942-we-are-now-in-it

A 1942 American propaganda poster derived from President Roosevelt’s “Day of Infamy” speech following the Pearl Harbor attacks. The poster, and other forms of PSAs that followed, are exemplary of the domestic sacrifices asked of Americans in the face of war – even with the possibility of nuclear and biological warfare after WWII. Image: Library of Congress. Click for source.

Biological warfare has existed for thousands of years: cheap and easy, it is often referred to as the “poor man’s nuclear bomb.” Few supplies are needed and the worst things come in small packages. Overt contamination is its crudest form – dumping bodies or feces in sources of drinking water – but deliberate exposure to infected bodies or contaminated objects has also been used to great effect.

The ancient Greeks, Romans and Persians reportedly dumped the bodies of animals into the wells of their enemies (1). In 1346, the Mongols used catapults to fling the bodies of plague victims over city walls during the siege of Caffa and the ensuing disease among city residents may have contributed to one of the waves of Black Plague that ravaged Europe in the 14th century as it traveled through Crimean ports (2). In 1763, the British army stationed at Fort Pitt gifted blankets to the Delaware Lenape Indians that had been used to cloak smallpox patients (3). Unsophisticated methods yet occasionally efficient.

The tremendous achievements we have made in the sciences and biotechnology over the course of the twentieth century have changed our approach to biological warfare, for better and worse. Antibiotics and vaccines are just two of the most prominent lifesaving products of our ongoing period of scientific exceptionalism and industrialization, but our advancements in microbiology and molecular technology have also paved the way for more sophisticated and nefarious methods of disrupting, threatening, and ending the lives of our enemies. We’ve come a long way from dumping bodies in rivers and wells and have moved on to chopping genes into bacteria and viruses so as to achieve a maximally lethal impact.

Japan initiated the first large military-scale into the grim business of manipulating and manufacturing very small things that would kill many, many people. In the 1930s, the Japanese army embarked upon what would become a formidably efficient bioweapons program, the first of its kind to make use of extensive human experimentation and vivisection (4). Prior to WWII, they tested at least 25 pathogens on civilians and prisoners that killed as many as 600 people (5). During the war, they poisoned Chinese water wells, dropped plague-infested fleas by planes and spread pestilence throughout the country that endured long after the war was over (6).

As a proactive, preventative measure against the Japanese’s microbiological advances, the US ventured into defensive biological weapons research in 1940 which eventually transformed into offensive weapons research as the war broke out in the Korean peninsula (7)(8).

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In 1952, the US Civil Defense released a PSA to the American public, “What You Should Know About Biological Warfare,” educating the populace on the steps to take in the event of a biological attack from our cold war enemies. Clips of shadowy men wearing fedoras spraying aerosolized substances into air shafts and pouring unknown yet suspicious-looking liquids into rivers are interspersed with information on washing contaminated food and clothes, on the necessities of mass inoculation and on the voluntary provision of blood samples.

The PSA provides viewers with a series of tips to keep panic to a minimum in the aftermath of a biological event:

“Cooperate with the authorities … don’t give way to fear … don’t listen to scare-talk, rumors or myths … be careful what you eat and drink … always report sickness promptly.”

The US had good reason to worry about such an event.  By 1952, the nation was itself well on its way to manufacturing weapons-grade brucella, tularemia, Q fever, anthrax, and many more biological agents, and was denying accusations of waging biological warfare by China, North Korea and Cuba (9)(10). It wasn’t just the Soviets that the American populace needed to fear; army scientists were actively toying with genetic configurations in the lab to make bacteria and viruses more contagious, more environmentally hardy and, most importantly, more lethal.

This PSA represents one in a series of similar efforts on the part of the US civil defense agencies. Other blockbusters made in the ‘50s and ‘60s included “Survival Under Atomic Attack,” “Self-Preservation in An Atomic Attack,” “Medical Aspects of Nuclear Radiation,” “Duck and Cover,” Our Cities Must Fight,” “About Nuclear Fallout,” and the five-parter “Living in a Fallout Shelter.” The WWII-era import placed on preparedness, resilience and vigilance via education and awareness efforts shifted during the post-war years, and was reborn to draw the American public’s attention towards more malevolent, microscopic threats: nuclear and biological warfare.

This PSA and others like it were symptomatic of an era in which our methods of killing people had radically changed: from the sword to the bomb to the microbe. This video marks a turning point in the mid-20th century, at which we were able to capture and culture the organisms that had killed us for centuries and then, with hardly a beat between the two, turn them upon our fellow men in a refined and enhanced form.

Resources

Wow! PBS has a nice map showing the bioweapon program statuses of various countries.

An archive of US Civil defense films through the years.

A 1995 article by Nicholas Kristof, “Japan Confronting Gruesome War Atrocity.”

References

1) J Poupard & L Miller (1992) History of biological warfare: catapults to capsomers. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 666: 9–20

2) M Wheelis (2002) Biological Warfare at the 1346 Siege of Caffa. Emerg Infect Dis. 8(9): 971-5

3) F Frischknecht (2003) The history of biological warfare. EMBO Rep. 4(Suppl 1): S47-S52

4) R Roffey et al. (2002) Biological warfare in a historical perspective. Clin MIcrobiol Infect. 8: 450-54

5) J McCurry (Feb 21 2011) Japan unearths site linked to human experiments. The Guardian [Online]. Accessed online June 10, 2013 here.

6) (Mar 18, 1995) The Crimes of Unit 731. The New York Times [Online]. Accessed online June 10, 2013 here.

7) F Frischknecht (2003) The history of biological warfare. EMBO Rep4(Suppl 1): S47-S52

8) GL Zubay (2005) Agents of Bioterrorism: Pathogens and Their Weaponization. (Google Books), Columbia University Press, p 132.

9) M Rolicka (1995) New studies disputing allegations of bacteriological warfare during the Korean War. Mil Med. 160(3): 97-100

10) RA Zilinskas. Cuban allegations of biological warfare by the United States: assessing the evidence. Crit Rev Microbiol. 25(3): 173-227

ResearchBlogging.orgFrischknecht, F. (2003). The history of biological warfare EMBO Reports, 4 (Supp1) DOI: 10.1038/sj.embor.embor849

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debbiencusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 3:31pm
The scientists having taken apart the H5N1 virus sequence should have had a reason, that reason being to make a vaccine, or several seed vaccines to try to stop this horrible killer. Instead what we are seeing one year latter is the rise of the threat of H5N1 again, the new H7 (maybe the answer from another country to the USA thinking we are out of the woods due to our scientific knowledge of H5N1. What may be a far more lethal form of H1N1. Not to be outdone by the rest of the world MERS. Are we at a germ standoff?
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PBS HomePrograms A-ZTV SchedulesWatch VideoDonateShop PBSSearch PBS

NOVA Online (see text links below)
Bioterror
Global Guide to Bioweapons

Click on the map or use the country links below to see each country's bioweapons program status.

World map

Algeria | Canada | China | Egypt | France | Germany | India | Iran | Iraq | Israel | Japan | Libya | North Korea | Pakistan | Russia | South Africa | Syria | Taiwan | United Kingdom | United States



Algeria
Algeria map
Bioweapons status: Known to be actively researching biological agents but not known to have successfully weaponized germs

Possible agents: Unknown

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Canada
Canada map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Former program terminated and stockpile destroyed (1970s)

Agents (former): Anthrax, rinderpest, botulinum toxin, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, plague, tularemia, ricin

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China
China map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Believed to secretly possess offensive bioweapons program

Possible agents: Unknown

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Egypt
Egypt map
Bioweapons status: Known to be actively researching biological agents for offensive and defensive programs

Possible Agents: Anthrax, botulinum toxin, plague, cholera, tularemia, glanders, brucellosis, melioidosis, psittacosis, Q fever, Japanese B encephalitis, Eastern equine encephalitis, influenza, smallpox, mycotoxins

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France
France map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Former program terminated and stockpile destroyed (1980s)

Agents (former): Potato beetle, rinderpest, others unknown

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Germany
Germany map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Former program terminated and stockpile destroyed (1970s)

Agents (former): Plague, cholera, yellow fever, typhus, foot-and-mouth disease, glanders, potato beetle, wheat fungus

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India
India map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Known to be actively conducting biological weapons defense research

Possible agents: Unknown

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Iran
Iran map
Bioweapons status: Known to be actively researching and possibly producing offensive biological weapons

Possible agents: Unknown

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Iraq
Iraq map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Previously actively researching and producing biological weapons. Highly likely to be continuing bioweapons program today.

Possible agents: Anthrax, botulinum toxin, gas gangrene, aflatoxin, trichothecene, mycotoxins, wheat cover smut, ricin, hemorrhagic conjunctivitis virus, rotavirus, camel pox

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Israel
Israel map
Bioweapons status: Known to be conducting offensive bioweapons research but no evidence so far of successful bioweapons production

Possible agents: Unknown

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Japan
Japan map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Former program terminated and stockpile destroyed (1970s)

Agents(former): Anthrax, tularemia, plague, botulinum toxin, smallpox, glanders, typhoid, typhus

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Libya
Libya map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Known to be conducting research towards offensive bioweapons

Possible agents: Unknown

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North Korea
North Korea map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Known to be researching biological agents for offensive use

Possible agents: Anthrax, cholera, plague, smallpox, botulinum toxin, hemorrhagic fever, typhoid, yellow fever

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Pakistan
Pakistan map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Probable research and development of bioweapons

Possible agents: Unknown

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Russia
Russia map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Conducting defensive bioweapons research, possibly working beyond legitimate defense activities to offensive activities

Possible agents: Anthrax, tularemia, brucellosis, plague, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, typhus, Q fever, botulinum toxin, smallpox, glanders, Marburg infection, Ebola, Machupo virus, Argentinian hemorrhagic fever, yellow fever, Lassa fever, Venezuelan equine encephalomyelitis, Japanese encephalitis, Russian spring-summer encephalitis, psittacosis, rinderpest, African swine fever virus, wheat stem rust, rice blast

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South Africa
South Africa map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Former program terminated and stockpile destroyed (1970s)

Agents (former): Anthrax, cholera, botulinum toxin

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Syria
Syria map
Bioweapons status: Highly likely to be developing offensive bioweapons

Possible agents: Anthrax, botulinum toxin

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Taiwan
Taiwan map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Possible bioweapons research program

Possible agents: Unknown

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U.K.
U.K. map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Former program terminated and stockpile destoyed (1970s)

Agents (former): Anthrax

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U.S.
U.S.A. map
Signatory state to the Biological Weapons Convention

Bioweapons status: Extensive defensive research program

Possible agents (former): Anthrax, brucellosis, botulinum toxin, Eastern and Western equine encephalitis, Venezuelan equine encephalomyelitis, Argentinian hemorrhagic fever, Korean hemorrhagic fever, Bolivian hemorrhagic fever, tularemia, Q fever, Lassa fever, glanders, melioidosis, plague, yellow fever, psittacosis, dengue fever, Rift Valley fever, Chikungunya disease virus, ricin, rice blast, rice brown spot disease, late blight of potato, stem rust of cereal, rinderpest virus, Newcastle disease virus, fowl plague virus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debbiencusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 4:31pm
Note under United States, the last entry "Fowl" or as we know it, "Avian".
Also bear in mind these are what the govs. admit. In defense of all, once one country weaponizes  the bugs, it pretty much demands the others experiment out of self interest.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 8:17pm
Debbie, you have to pick your battles. You simply can't worry about every possible thing or the worry itself will kill you. There is no point in worrying about things over which you have no control, such as Yellowstone going up, an asteroid strike, La Palma collapsing. No amount of worry will prevent these things happening, and they all will happen, just perhaps not in our lifetimes.

Biological warfare is something I'd put in that category too. Along with nuclear war. I can't prevent either happening. All you can do is deal with them when they arrive. Sure you can build a nuclear bunker, or live in an oxygen tent but sometimes you just have to get on with living and do the best you can.

It wouldn't surprise me if the next pandemic was released on purpose. Losing 70% of the global population would  certainly take the pressure off limited resources!

I read every day. I love books, but I try to balance what I read. If i'm reading a scary end of the world book, I alternate it with a light hearted book or a book on gardening or sewing or whatever. Too much focus on one subject can suck me in and scare the pants off me. I don't want to spend my life focusing on things that may never happen and whilst doing so, missing the things that are happening right now, the good things that are happening all around me. 

I read your posts on this site and you sound very stressed and overly anxious. I don't know if this will help you but here in the South Island we live under the shadow of a giant earthquake that is overdue. When the Alpine Fault ruptures it will break over a 450km length or longer and will generate an 8.2 or larger. The shaking will last for minutes not seconds. 

I have prepared for this as best I can. I've followed the government advice and we have our emergency plans in place. We have 3 weeks of food, we have torches, blankets etc stored away from our house so if the house falls down we can get to our provisions. We have plans for if it goes in school time, etc etc. As our recent earthquake swarms have shown us, there will be fatalities and many many buildings will collapse. 

Statistically, it is more likely to rupture this afternoon than it is tomorrow. We've strapped down our fridge, hot water cylinder, stove etc. In other words we've done everything we possibly can and I take some comfort from that. And until it happens, we'll just get on with living. We still practice our drills every month, just so we're ready. Now personally I like the sensation of earthquakes. It's not publicly acceptable to say that since so many people died, but I like the way they shake the house. I like the rumbling noise and the overwhelming feeling of some power so much greater than us all combined. 

I don't like the deaths, the building collapsing or the grip of fear I feel when I think an earthquake is upon us. That said, I'll be gutted if I die before it goes off! Having put in so much effort to prepare and I've also attended college to study this, I'll be so cross if I miss it. I just hope that it goes off at 10am on a Saturday, on a hot dry day when we are all standing out in our paddock. Sods law says it'll happen at 2am, midwinter in bitterly cold driving rain, and we'll all be crushed as we sleep in our beds. The point is none of us know what's going to happen when, and we have no control over these things, so there's no point in worrying about them. I can only do so much. 
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 9:22pm
KiwiMum is right Debbie, I prep so I don't have to worry. I have lost a child at 2 years old very suddenly to a heart tumor and lost my husband in 5 months, 4 years ago to cancer. I prep so that my only child left can hopefully make it through whatever hits us. It could be unemployment or anything.

I sleep well at night because like my 90 year old mother says, "Do your best then don't worry." She is right I do my best and everything else I leave to God.

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Que sera, sera. What ever will be, will be. The futures not ours to see. Que sera, sera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debbiencusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 1:27pm
The first article testifies to mans inhumanity by using disease as a bio weapon, my concern is that these current virus may not be natural but man made bio weapons. China has created and used bio weapons before and so has middle easterners. I think you misinterpreted my meaning by the post. It shows the various countries that do have bio weapons, showing that it is a fact not fiction that they exist. I believe a naturally occurring virus we stand a better chance of fighting as opposed to a weaponized virus.
 
I realize that all things can not be controlled, I do not even attempt to prep for most disasters, I consider many unprepable.  Ladies, I thank you for your concern about my nervousness, but frankly I have not prepped anywhere close to what either of you have. I have a deep respect for you both, but Flumom I thought I saw something on here where you tried to buy a ventilator, it would seem that is at the least very costly. Kiwi it sounds like from what you have said you and your family changed your entire way of life as a means to be prepared. This could be why you two are not as worried about certain things bc you both seem to have about every base covered from A to Z, most people cant afford that.  My husband would freak out if I suggested we move to the country to avoid virus etc, you need a partner on board with that. I do not have one. He thinks most of the little I do is nonsense. If I say to him I prep so I don't have to worry, he claims it is still a obsession none the less. So I guess my message is I believe the majority of people would think we who prepare are all nervous, trying to control the uncontrollable and even obsessed. The reality is I post to help others, I read and do things to help my family, but I need to get to a place where I don't prep at all and put my faith entirely in Gods hands. For I know that when He calls we are going and if He does not we are staying.  If I could go back to my childhood and remove the part of me that seems to always be afraid, always need to find a way out I would do it in a instant, I hate this fearful part of me.  The good about it is, the last time several years ago during the H5N1 scare, it did lead me to a deeper and better relationship with God. Now, I am making a career of it, or in the process. So, it is embarrassing to have fear at all, as we are told not to. Thanks for the concern, it is kind and very touching.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quietprepr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 1:47pm
Debbie,
Your post really caught my eye. First let me say that I am not a terribly religious person but I believe the Lord helps those who help themselves. If you want a good biblical perspective on prepping, search the archives at survival blog. There are numerous references to the exact scriptures in the bible that encourage prepping. Preparing is just insurance so you never have to watch your family suffer when you could have done something about it. We have car, home, and medical insurance for the same reason.
Also, a certain amount of fear is healthy. Panic is not. You combat fear and panic with knowledge and preparation. A lack of fear of any kind is dangerous. The ability to acknowledge and control your fear is healthy.
Most people throw stones at preppers because if they did not, they would have to admit we see things that are troubling. Things they do not want to consider. Possibilities they are not willing to accept. We know that as stewards and providers for our families, it is our responsibility to do what we can to ensure the health and safety of those we love.
Also, the majority of us do not have a partner on board with us. At best our prepping is tolerated, at worst it is ridiculed. It does not lessen our responsibility and most of us simply prepare quietly and do not discuss it with family members who are not on board.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by quietprepr quietprepr wrote:

At best our prepping is tolerated, at worst it is ridiculed. It does not lessen our responsibility and most of us simply prepare quietly and do not discuss it with family members who are not on board.


That pretty much nailed it for most of us, I'm sure Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2013 at 6:31pm
Debbie, it took 8 years for my husband to get fully on board. I viewed it as a work in progress sulpture, I just kept chip chip chipping away at that block of stone until it looked how I wanted it to look. 

Interesting I wouldn't call myself a prepper. My days of having tins of food under the bed have long gone. Right now all i have in tins are chopped tomatoes, sliced pineapples, baked beans and tinned peaches. I do also have one can of tuna. 

It struck me a few years ago that it doesn't matter if you have food for one week, one month or one year, because the moment you start eating those preps, the clock starts ticking. The countdown to your last meal starts. Preps should only serve as a buffer, to lessen the shock of going from 100% shop bought to 100% home grown.

It's the same with loo roll, plasters, disinfectant, bed linen - in fact anything you currently have in your house. At some point, the things we have will wear out or be used up and then we'll have to decide if we can live without them or how we will replace them. With me, I started looking at how I would provide these things, and one by one I've worked my way through the list of loo rolls, candles etc. 

With food, we just started producing our own and rather than it being a chore we both found it a real pleasure. We keep animals and gardens and 2 orchards and just love it. As a result, we don't feel the need to stock up on loads of tinned stew etc because we don't eat it anyway, we eat what we produce in the main. Our housecow had a healthy little bull calf yesterday and we milked her yesterday afternoon and are back in fresh milk (hurray!!). For pudding tonight we will be having baked colostrum custard. The calf will be eaten in about 6 months time. 

We are a low income family. In fact I think we may even be classed as below the poverty line but actually we live like kings. Although our income is tiny, our expenses are also tiny because we don't pay for power, a mortgage or much food.

I didn't mean to criticize you. All we can do is our best. Handle things when they come our way as best we can. 
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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KiwiMum, I really hope nothing happens because I have about 1 yr of food but to grow my own food in a suburb is not something that will be easy to do.

I can now keep 5 chickens at my house. But I do not want to do that now because I don't have the ability to go through that many eggs and right now my neighbors would not be happy with chickens in my backyard.

I could plant my backyard but we don't have enough rain here to grow naturally you have to have city water. We are not allowed wells.

Chickens would be best for me if I can barter for some when TSHTF but you have to have land with water to do what you are lucky enough to be doing now. We in the city are going to have an interesting time of it. I hope what ever happens it is not long lived!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 2:03pm
Flumom, 
how about rabbits for meat and fur? I have just started this myself two weeks ago. I bought 1 buck, and 3 unrelated does. I have them in 4 hutches. They are enormous NZ whites x Flemish giants. I've already mated them (which only took seconds). They eat hay and pellets. I have to say they are very beautiful and soft and cuddly. 

The first lot of babies will arrive in 19 days and we'll kill them after 8-10 weeks. Thankfully we're getting good at killing things, if it's the first thing you're going to kill then good luck - they are too cute for words. I'm planning on learning to cure the pelts (and have a book on it already) and the first thing i'm going to make is a rabbit skin bedspread. I've been telling my boys I'm going to make them rabbit fur underpants which they think is hilarious!!! (Furry side inside of course!!!)

Presumably even the most upmarket subdivision allows pet rabbits? You don't have to tell anyone you're going to eat them. We'll eat some of ours but frankly we're swimming in meat, so I'm growing mine mainly as dog and cat food. 
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOPPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 2:49pm
Rabbits are good to eat, but they are very very low in fat. In fact you can starve to death if you just ate rabbit without supplementing your diet with fats and carbohydrates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 3:53pm
There's no need to raise rabbits or deer.  They're running all around our backyard all the time.  I live in the city!  Go figure. 
 
When the going gets rough all we have to do is shoot a deer from our back deck.  No kidding!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 4:22pm
Looper just heard about rabbit starvation interesting. Elver those rabbits and deer will be gone before you know it. I wonder can we eat prairie dogs? Got to look that one up! We have large amounts of prairie dogs all over!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOPPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

There's no need to raise rabbits or deer.  They're running all around our backyard all the time.  I live in the city!  Go figure. 
 
When the going gets rough all we have to do is shoot a deer from our back deck.  No kidding!
Think those rabbits and deer will be around if 20,000 of your neighbors get hungry when the going gets rough? I live in the country and since 2008 I have noticed a marked decrease in the number of deer in my general area, which I attribute directly to poaching due to a bad economy and hungry people. And I don't have neighbors and the going ain't that tough----------YET.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOPPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Looper just heard about rabbit starvation interesting. Elver those rabbits and deer will be gone before you know it. I wonder can we eat prairie dogs? Got to look that one up! We have large amounts of prairie dogs all over!
 
Rabbit will provide protein, you just have to make sure to include fats and carbs in your diet if you are going to rely on a rabbit heavy diet. Of course you can eat prairie dogs. It would be fairly easy to snare them and then its prairie dog stew time. But again they are a rather lean animal providing little in the way of fat which is needed to survive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOPPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 5:08pm
Here you go Flumom here are a few prairie dog recipes. Bon appetiteThumbs Up
 
Prairie Dog Stew Ingredients:
1 prairie dog, quartered
1 cup diced onion
2 large tomatoes (from your garden) or 1 can of tomatoes
Assorted fresh ,or canned veggies
Preparation:
Sprinkle seasoned salt, pepper, and cayenne pepper (optional) liberally on the meat. Pour some cooking oil into a large pot (dutch oven). Sauté the meat with the onions until well browned. Drain the excess oil, add about 2 cups water, and bring to a boil. Cut up the tomatoes and add. If you use canned tomatoes add them now. Turn down the heat, and let slow cook for at least an hour. Important: older prairie dogs may require cooking longer than an hour. Check periodically for tenderness. If you don't you will have a hard time chewing the meat. After the meat is tender, add the veggies, carrots, potatoes, banana pepper, what ever you like. Cook until the veggies are done. An option you can use is, cook up your favorite pasta and serve over the pasta. (eliminate the potatoes). That's it, nice and simple

Prairie Dog Pie
Clean, skin and cut two prairie dogs into small pieces. Soak in salted water, or water with a little vinegar added, changing water several times. Drain, dry and roll in seasoned flour. Sauté in pork or bacon fat until slightly browned, then place in greased pie dish or bowl, add two cups liquid (made up of wine, cider, beer, crushed fruit , or a little vinegar, and water or stock), salt and pepper, one thinly sliced onion, herbs of your choice. Cover and cook on top stove for 1 ½, or in moderate oven for two hours. Remove and thicken the stock with a little flour. Take out part of the gravy and add tomatoes, sauce or catsup, to serve with the pie. Meanwhile, cover meat dish with pastry or biscuit dough, slit for steam to escape, and bake for 20 minutes in hot oven.

BBQ Prairie Dog
1st. Take as many prairie dogs as you would like add salt and pepper. 2nd. Put prairie dogs on grill, bbq whatever let cook for a while, then add some liquid smoke or soy sauce on top and around prairie dogs. 3rd. When the prairie dogs are almost done cooking smear BBQ sauce all over the prairie dogs and let cook until done...( you can use any BBQ sauce you would like or you can try my very own recipe) located at below
BBQ SAUCE FOR PRAIRIE DOG 1 cup brown sugar
2 1/2 cup ketchup
3/4 cup mustard
3/4 cup liquid smoke or worcestershire sauce

Honey and Cider Prairie Dog 2 young prairie dogs, dressed & halved
1/2 cup honey
2 cups apple cider
2 bay leaves, crushed
1 TBL cornstarch
2 TBL water
Pat prairie dog halves dry. Place on rack in broiler pan. Coat with half the honey. Broil 6 inches from heat source for 8 minutes. Turn. Coat with remaining honey. Broil for 8 minutes longer. Place in roasting pan. Pour cider over prairie dog. Add bay leaves. Roast @ 350 degrees for 1 hour or until tender. Remove to serving platter; keep warm. Strain pan drippings into saucepan. Dissolve cornstarch in water; stir into pan drippings. Cook over medium heat until thickened, stirring constantly. Serve with prairie dog. May serve with crisp shoestring potatoes and green salad. Yeild: 4 Servings.

Buffalo Quarters
Ingredients:
1 Dozen Prairie Dog quarters, front and hind
1 bottle of hot sauce (could use louisana style, I prefer to find or make one with more of a tomato base than vinegar base. If you like super hot wings try to find Inner Beauty Sauce)
1 stick of margarine or butter (margarine works better)
Instructions:
Deep fry the quarters until golden brown. Soak out the grease. Preferred method is to shake in a brown bag. In a fry pan melt margarine and hot sauce together.
Dip dried, fried quarters in the hot sauce mixture. If you like them crispy put them on a baking sheet in the oven (350F) for 10 minutes.
The secret for my taste is to get them crispy in the deep fryer, then replace the grease in the crispy skin with hot sauce properly formulated in its own grease. There is no good way to go fat free on this one!

Prairie Dog Wings Here's the REAL "ORIGNAL" recipe for Prairie Dog Wings.
Instructions:
1) Mix flour and cyan pepper and toss the mix into a bag.
2) Dump a couple of bottles of Tabasco sauce in a plastic bag.
3) Dump some vinegar (the good kind that gets your wife mad when you use it) into a bowl.
4) Dip the prairie dog quarters in the vinegar.
5) Shake them in the flour mix (you want a light dusting).
6) Toss them in the Tabasco (get lots on em).
7) Deep fry until done.
8) Serve with blue cheese dressing (very cold), celery, and carrots.
Note: If they are not quite hot enough add more pepper or dump the juice from a couple bottles of jalapeno in with the Tabasco. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debbiencusa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2013 at 8:20pm
squirrels people eat also. I feel better since we have a fenced yard for gardening, but you can study up on gardening by mixing herbs in weeds, grapes with vining flowers. You hide in plain sight they call it. Plus I buy seeds bc even if I give them to the neighbors we could work together each producing something in the sub division then sharing the harvest. I also could do some in door gardening because we have a lot of sunlight to grow individual plants that would do well. I think there are some tricks to maximize small spaces.
Poultry bugs me due to the diseases, there are ducks and geese galore where we live, plus we are walking distance from a large lake for fish, and in a different direction a river. That is great. We are also within a bike ride from several farms. If there is no fuel the farmers will allow people to farm their land for a share of the food, it is just plain good people helping people. Also know your edible plants around you. Pine needles are supposed to be good used as a tea for flu.
I never took anything anyone said as putting me down. You are right, I am nervous. I need to calm down  and get centered back where I belong.
When young kids grow up in fear for whatever reason my Dr. said we actually become hard wired that way.  Some may call it imprinting but I think it is deeper then that. We are all works in progress. I appreciate you all, you all have valuable lessons to be learned. As I said, I respect you all very much.
God Bless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 3:20am
I use to raise rabbits for years. Very good to eat! Just found that they constantly eat those rabbit pellets which is a bit pricy to buy..So back about 3 years ago I gave up on the rabbits and decided to just have the chickens.That way I get the Eggs and the chickens to eat..


Domestic rabbits are highly valued for their low fat, low cholesterol and high quality proteins. They are entirely white meat. Rabbit compares very favorably to chicken, turkey and some fish for its beneficial health virtues and its adaptability.
Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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