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Ukraine escalation

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2014 at 1:23am
http://www.debka.com/article/23841/Kiev-bows-to-Moscow-devolves-near-autonomous-powers-on-restive-pro-Russian-regions The western-backed so-called government in Kiev might not have any control over the army or the country. Putting a lot of dollars or euro's want change thet (but oil-companies might get their contracts).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2014 at 3:44am
I reckon The USA is looking at full blown military action against Russia soon. IE Nukes etc

Here's why..

Something very very unusual happened on the weekend. The "Russians" stormed the Ukraine police departments. The USA says Putin is behind it. The USA is waxing lyrical about it in the media..... so far not very unusual. 


Just think about this for a minute. The Russian lost control of the Ukraine in a coup orchestrated by the USA. The Russians have egg on their faces. So its kind of logical that the Russians would want to take back their allied territory.  Its all very logical...


So Putin is behind the Russian insurgency to take back the Ukraine..  If the Putin was taking back the police departments and government buildings, why would he allow western media to film it?? Putins men would also use force on mass... Have a look at the following video. Tell me if this looks like staged bul*****t.


Manufactured permission to attack the Russians??


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c89_1397344888

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2014 at 7:48am
In an optimistic scenario pro-Russians are under some sort of control from Moscow and anti-Russians under control of Kiev. There are signs that that is to optimistic. The nazi-"right sector" might be starting actions on them self. Pro-Russian fighters might be (old) Ukraine army personel with Russian/Soviet background, also not under control from Moscow. The west might have helped a new unelected government in Kiev that almost has no power. (Sounds familiar with Lybia, Iraq etc.)

http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-violence-slavyansk-240/  http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/ 

There have been people killed in fighting in Eastern Ukraine, things seem to take aturn for the worse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2014 at 9:41am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/12/armed-men-seize-police-station-in-eastern-ukraine/#

April 12, 2014: Armed pro-Russian activists occupy the police station carrying riot shields as people watch on, in the eastern Ukraine town of Slovyansk.AP


Ukraine's acting president said the country will launch a "large-scale anti-terrorist operation" to resist Russia's aggression.

Oleksandr Turchynov said in a live televised address from the parliament that authorities in Kiev will not allow the "repetition of the Crimean scenario."

Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula last month after local residents voted overwhelming to secede from Ukraine and seek to join Russia in a hastily called referendum.

Turchynov reportedly called an emergency meeting of Kiev's national security council on Saturday after pro-Russian protesters seized control of government buildings in the country's eastern region.  

"A meeting will take place of the Ukrainian council of security and defense because of the situation in the east of Ukraine," a spokeswoman for Acting President Oleksander Turchinov said, according to Reuters.

Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2014 at 8:03am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/14/deadline-for-pro-russian-gunmen-to-leave-ukraine-government-buildings-passes/

Pro-Russia militants seized another government building in eastern Ukraine Monday, hours after a deadline set by the Ukrainian government for gunmen to surrender their weapons passed early Monday, with no immediate sign of any action to force the insurgents out.

The Associated Press reported that dozens of angry men hurled rocks, smashed windows and broke into a police station in the city of Horlivka not far from the border with Russia, while hundreds of onlookers cheered them on. Thick white smoke rose from the entrance to the building.

Later in the day, armed men in masks also seized control of a military airport outside the city Slovyansk, also in the Donetsk region.

The events in Horlivka were the latest sign of trouble in Russian-speaking eastern and southern regions, in which pro-Russian gunmen have seized a number of government buildings demanding more autonomy from the central government and closer ties with Russia.

Ukraine's acting President Oleksandr Turchynov called for the deployment of United Nations peacekeeping troops in the country’s eastern region Monday, where pro-Russian insurgents have occupied buildings in nearly 10 cities.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2014 at 12:32pm
There are several reports from fighting in Eastern Ukraine. The picture is very vague. A (small) airfield seems to be taken over by Ukraine government-sides fighters (according to some Blackwater/CIA and/or right sector-nazi's). They were fighting against pro-Russians (special forces ?). The goal of controling that airfield would be getting a doorway to send more troops to the region by air. 

One big question is who is paying for the Ukraine Army ? Ukraine itself has no money. In my opinion the only answer likely will be that NATO/CIA is involved in making any operation possible. Russia is believed to deliver arms, amunition and proberbly information, "advisors". 

For that matter NATO and Russians are fighting each other now on a second front (first front is Syria).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2014 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

There are several reports from fighting in Eastern Ukraine. The picture is very vague. A (small) airfield seems to be taken over by Ukraine government-sides fighters (according to some Blackwater/CIA and/or right sector-nazi's). They were fighting against pro-Russians (special forces ?). The goal of controling that airfield would be getting a doorway to send more troops to the region by air. 

One big question is who is paying for the Ukraine Army ? Ukraine itself has no money. In my opinion the only answer likely will be that NATO/CIA is involved in making any operation possible. Russia is believed to deliver arms, amunition and proberbly information, "advisors". 

For that matter NATO and Russians are fighting each other now on a second front (first front is Syria).  

Thanks!  The Ukrainian army would be highly motivated to fight for their country, regardless of salary....they are patriots.  Many of them have some combat experience from collaborating with NATO in Iraq and Afghanistan, and many also have experience with Russian tactics from the Soviet Union era. 

By pushing back against the "rebels" (a mix of Russian-speaking Ukrainians and Russian troops), I think Ukraine is sending Putin a big "go ahead, hit us, we'll hit back" sign.  Of course, Russia could roll over Ukraine, but not without a fight.  

The West has some powerful financial tools they could employ against the Russian oligarchs if they choose, I hope they do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2014 at 11:22pm
CRS,DrPH war is never an answer ! The present energy-wars in Syria and Ukraine are between western and Eastern oligarchs and not in the interest of the general public. War means the end of democracy, increases poverty. The only answer the general public can give is trying to be less dependend from big companies. Wars are expensive and the only reasons banks finance wars is that they try to gain from it. Democracy has to come from citizens and can not be brought by military means !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2014 at 7:47am
Dutch Josh,I wish that I could live in this Utopian world that you describe.It would be nice. But it is not real.Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 11:43am
Kerry confirms report that Jews in Ukrainian city told to register!!



[link to www.foxnews.com]

"Kerry's comments follow a report in Israel's Ynet News that a leaflet was circulating in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, demanding that Jews register -- as well as provide a list of property they own -- or else face deportation and revocation of citizenship. Pro-Russian activists have asserted partial control over some government buildings in that city. "

Another source..

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website.

[link to www.usatoday.com]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 11:54am
Is Putin the new Hitler?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 6:28pm
Yes I think Putin will turn out to be the new Hitler. Why not who will stop him...pussy willow Obama...NOT.   I saw a "net" thing that Putin wants Finland returned to Russia. Well if he goes for that we know he is the new Hitler with no one to stop him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 6:34pm
coyote and FluMom,you are both right. And our weak president is helping to create a monster.Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 4:24am
Royal Dutch Shell CEO van Beurden visited Putin last friday to celebrate 20 years of cooperation in Russia. Shell would like to participate in Liquid Natural Gas-projects with Gazprom. Disneyland is discussing opening a new Disnyland near Moscow, Siemens (German) did sign a contract for a bilion dollar/euro investment in high-speed-rail-links. Volkswagen is looking at further investments in carmanufactering in Russia. (Lada is part of GM ?) Economic reasons stand in the way of real sanctions. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hachiban08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 3:20pm

U.S. journalist held by east Ukraine militants


http://news.yahoo.com/u-journalist-held-east-ukraine-militants-184457913--sector.html

SLAVIANSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - Pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine said on Tuesday they were holding an American journalist in the city of Slaviansk and the online news site Vice News said it was trying to secure the safety of its reporter Simon Ostrovsky.

The self-declared separatist mayor of Slaviansk told a news conference his men were holding an American journalist. Vyacheslav Ponomaryov did not name him but journalists working in the area said Ostrovsky had been detained by gunmen on Monday and, unlike others taken with him, had not yet been released.

Vice News said on its Web site it was "aware of the situation and is in contact with the U.S. State Department and other appropriate government authorities to secure the safety and security of our friend and colleague, Simon Ostrovsky".

The American has been covering the crisis in Ukraine for weeks. His last posting on Twitter was on Monday when he covered an earlier news conference by the separatist leader.

He noted that during the news conference a woman working with the separatists "called us all liars" and then asked journalists for donations for the funerals of militants who had been killed in a gunfight the previous day.

(Reporting by Aleksandar Vasovic in Slaviansk and Alastair Macdonald in Kiev; Writing by Alastair Macdonald; Editing by Robin Pomeroy)




Be prepared! It may be time....^_^v
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hachiban08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 3:22pm
U.S. sends 600 troops to Poland, Baltics in message to Russia over Ukraine

http://news.yahoo.com/u-s--sends-600-troops-to-poland--baltics-in-message-to-russia-over-ukraine-175716068.html

In a move to reassure Russia’s neighbors, the United States will send some 600 paratroopers to Poland and the Baltics starting tomorrow as part of an open-ended military commitment prompted by Moscow’s actions in Ukraine.

“I can announce today that a company-size contingent of paratroopers from the U.S. Army Europe's 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team airborne, which is based in Vicenza, Italy, will arrive in Poland tomorrow to begin exercises with Polish troops,” Rear Admiral John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, told reporters at his daily briefing.

Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania will get 150 American troops each. The full deployment will be complete “by the end of this weekend, maybe Monday,” Kirby said.


Even when those U.S. forces rotate back, new ones will take their place for new exercises throughout the rest of 2014, “but beyond that, it could go beyond the end of this year," Kirby said. "We just don't know. We're just going to have to see how it goes.”

And the exercises “very well could” expand to other NATO allies, Kirby said. “But right now it's going to start with those four countries.”


(more in the link)

Be prepared! It may be time....^_^v
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2014 at 1:51pm



Ukraine Gives Russia 48-Hr Ultimatum Or "We Will Fight"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...-we-will-fight



great

the US government spends 5 billion of our tax dollars to destabilize and overthrow the Ukranian  government

Churkin: US behind Ukraine crisis after investing $5bn in 'regime change'


they apparently miscalculated

and now a war to start ???


if the US ever says they're gonna bring freedom and democracy to your country

RUN LIKE HELLBig smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2014 at 2:34am
Russia wants the "Right Sector"-nazi's to give up their weapons. But the so-called government in Kiev only can rely on that armed group. The ukraine-army only is able to fight if "the west" enables them to do so. There were stories that even food is a problem for the Ukraine-army.  If Kiev is claiming that "special forces" are doing operations in the east or south I expect that those operations are done by "Blackwater/Academi" (in co-operation with the right-sector). 

John Kerry talking for "the world against Russia" is not talking in the name of the BRICS-countries, latin america etc. In fact he is only backed by EU-politicians, public  opinion is very divided. 

Russia and NATO are also colliding in the Middle East were Assad is gaining ground  eventhough the west is giving "rebels" heavy weapons. Most of the "rebels" now are western fighters with arab background. 

"Sanctions"against Russia will mean enormous losses for western companies. Siemens (Germany) will loose the chance for high-speed railways, Volkswagen might see difficulties in their Russian car manufactering. Western oil-companies might run into problems with their investments in energy in Russia, Europe might be without natural gas.Even serious sanctions will be very costly for a west that is not able to deal with that economicly. (In the Netherlands, like in other countries the number of unemployed is dropping but not because people find a job but they stop looking for a job. )

Disneyland that wants an amusementspark near Moscow proberbly has been negotiating for that for years. Swedish IKEA has stores in Russia, many other western companies see a growing market for them in Russia. Stopping trade might be the end of some companies !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:14am
A Malaysian Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has been shot down above the Eastern Ukrain with 280 passengers and 15 crew. It looks like seperatist shot down the plane thinking it was an Ukrain military plane. Proberbly using SA-6/buk missiles taken over from the Ukrain Army. 

The plane was at 30.000 feet/10 kilometres. There was a no-fly-zone up to 7 km. The plane was a bit north from were it should have been, 50 kilometres from Donetsk. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:24am
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


It was a combined flight from KLM/Malaysian http://nl.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17

Flight MH17/KL4103 with proberbly over 60 Dutch passengers but also other international travellers via Kuala Lumpur to Australia, New Zealand etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:27am
Wreckage is spread over 15/20 km wide area. Putin informed Obama over wath Russia calls "an accident" when the two were talking about sanctions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:54am
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/mas/nl/en/travel_advisory/statement1_mh17.html In the Netherlands all news is about this disaster, over 71 passengers are believed to be Dutch. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DANNYKELLEY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 10:56am
23. Americans also
WHAT TO DO????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 11:12am
Sad for the passengers and crew.
"And then there were none."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 11:16am
Oh damn. 295 people?
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hachiban08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2014 at 11:22am
Since everyone is replying to this one, you can just remove mine from earlier and I'll continue here.


From ABC News' facebook: "A man that relatives said is aboard downed Malaysia Airlines Flight #MH17 said he posted this on Facebook before the flight took off:

“Should it disappear, this is what it looks like." - via ABC World News with Diane Sawyer
Be prepared! It may be time....^_^v
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 12:49am
On board of the Boeing 777 were 154 Dutch, 43 Malaysian, 27 Australian, 12 Indonesian, 9 British, 4 German, 4 Belgian, 3 Philipino and 1 Canadian, proberbly also 4 French but 41 persons it is not clear what nationality they had. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 12:51am
I'm sorry for the loss of your countrymen, Josh.
That's a lot of first world governments that are going to be demanding answers.
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 3:35am
Thanks, jacksdad. Another person on the flight was a lawproffessor  of Leiden University and senator, mr Willem Witteveen (with wife and daughter on that plane) Several school are reopening because pupils or teachers ware on that plane. With at least 173 Dutch people on board only the Tenerife Airport disaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster was bigger in Dutch aviation history. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 3:56am
The loss of the AIDS experts was not just a personal loss (horrifically tragic though that is) it was a loss to all of humanity.  Just when researchers think they see the light at the end of that black tunnel.  Too tragic for words.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rickster58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 4:41am
I feel immense sadness for the families and loved ones of the innocent victims of this terrible tragedy.

The yet to be seen consequences of 'The Blame Game' that follows and will be now played out on world stages is truly horrifying and places the world in a very precarious place.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 4:55am
http://www.4daagse.nl/en/47-english/media/283-pressrelease2014-031.html Just ten miles from were I live there are the "Four Day Marches", also this event is effected by the Malaysian air disaster. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colateral_damage Those who fired the missile are the first responsible, those who did provide them with the weapon are second in line, the ones that started this (energy)conflict are third. Proberbly only some will ever stand triall if any. 
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 7:24am
As usual you are first to sum up accurately Josh.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2014 at 8:17am
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/shootdown-passenger-jet-ukraine-false-flag.html

Who benefits from shooting down this plane ? A lot of companies are very involved in Russia, Shell, Volkswagen, BP, Siemens, do not want sanctions. In my opinion the Kiev-regime is not representing the Ukrainian people but some western interests. This war is an energy-war, just like those in Nigeria, Libya, Iraq, Gaza/Israël and it is the normal civilian that suffer.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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