Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
SECONDARY PNEUMONIA FROM SEVERE FLU |
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IMPORTANT TOPIC!
GETTING THE PNEUMONIA VACCINATION MAY SAVE LIVES IN A FLU PANDEMIC:
GETTING THE PNEUMONIA VACCINATION AHEAD OF TIME - BEFORE A PANDEMIC BEGINS - IS THE BEST WAY TO SURVIVE.
As with any strain of flu, secondary "complications" to the flu can be lethal. The primary lethal complication is when a bacterial pneumonia infection develops . It's the secondary pneumonia that actually kills. Therefore, if you can keep the secondary pneumonia from developing, then although you still may get sick in a flu pandemic, you won't die.
There are two ways to prevent the lethal pneumonia. You can either purchase antibiotics in advance as they will not be available during a pandemic, or you can simply get a pneumonia vaccination. People need to strongly encourage their friends and families to get the vaccination. During the Flu pandemic of 1918, the initial vaccine used was a pneumonia vaccination. GOOD ARTICLE TO READ ON RECENT FINDINGS:
ScienceDaily (Oct. 11, 2007) Often called the most devastating epidemic in the recorded history of the world, the 1918 influenza virus pandemic was responsible for more than 40 million deaths across the globe. The incredible lethality of the 1918 flu strain is not well understood, despite having been under intense scrutiny for many years. Now, a new study published by Cell Press in the October issue of the journal Cell Host & Microbe unravels some of the mystery surrounding the devastating 1918 pandemic and provides key information that will help prepare for future pandemics.
It is relatively rare for an influenza virus to be virulent enough to cause death in healthy humans. Many deaths associated with influenza are caused by the combined influence of viral disease and the following secondary bacterial infection. Although the 1918 pandemic strain was one of the few influenza viruses capable of killing healthy victims on its own, the majority of fatal cases from the "Spanish Flu" can be attributed to secondary bacterial pathogens rather than primary viral disease. This important interaction between influenza viruses and bacteria is not well understood. Dr. Jonathan A. McCullers from the Department of Infectious Diseases at St. Jude Children's The researchers found that expression of PB1-F2 increased the incidence of and exacerbated secondary bacterial pneumonia in a mouse model. Intranasal delivery of a synthetic peptide derived from a portion of PB1-F2 had the same effects. Further, an influenza virus engineered to express a version of PB1-F2 identical to that in the 1918 pandemic strain was more virulent in mice and led to more severe bacterial pneumonia, explaining in part both the unparalleled virulence of the 1918 strain and the high incidence of fatal pneumonia during the pandemic. The finding that PB1-F2 promotes lung pathology in primary viral infection and secondary bacterial infection also provides critical information for the future. "Given the importance of IAV as a leading cause of virus-induced morbidity and mortality year in and year out, and its potential to kill tens of millions in the inevitable pandemic that may have its genesis in the viruses currently circulating in southeast Asia, it is imperative to understand the role of PB1-F2 in IAV pathogenicity in humans and animals," says Dr. McCullers. "These findings also reinforce the recent suggestion of the American Society for Microbiology that nations should stockpile antibiotics for the next pandemic, since many of the deaths during this event are likely to be caused by bacterial super-infections." Reference: McAuley et al.: "Expression of the 1918 Influenza A Virus PB1-F2 Enhances the Pathogenesis of Viral and Secondary Bacterial Pneumonia." Publishing in Cell Host & Microbe 2, 240--249, October 2007. DOI 10.1016/j.chom.2007.09.001 The researchers include Julie L. McAuley of Department of Infectious Diseases, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis; Felicita Hornung of Laboratory of Viral Diseases, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in Bethesda; Kelli L. Boyd of Animal Resources Center, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis; Amber M. Smith of Department of Mathematics, University of Utah in Salt Lake City; Raelene McKeon of Department of Infectious Diseases, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis; Jack Bennink and Jonathan W. Yewdell of Laboratory of Viral Diseases, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in Bethesda; and Jonathan A. McCullers of Department of Infectious Diseases, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis. This work was supported by the NIH the NIAID intramural research program, and the American Lebanese Syrian Associated Charities (ALSAC). http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071010120543.htm ANOTHER INTERESTING ARTICLE:
Pneumococcal vaccine urged in flu pandemic plan
MONTREAL -- U.S. plans for an influenza virus pandemic should include a strong recommendation for bacterial pneumonia vaccination, as this measure has been shown to reduce influenza mortality by up to 50%, said Dr. Keith Klugman.
"Among the 18 fundamental points in the U.S. pandemic plan, there is little mention of bacterial vaccines. I believe their role is significant and has not been considered up until now," he said at an international conference on community-acquired pneumonia. Although the influenza virus alone can be fatal, the risk of death is greater with secondary pneumococcal infection, said Dr. Klugman, professor of infectious diseases and the William H. Foege Chair of Global Health at Emory University, Atlanta. "The combination of bacterial superinfection and influenza is highly fatal. It's a huge problem, and it's not a small part of influenza mortality and morbidity," he said in an interview. Evidence that pneumococcal infection played a major role in the 1918 influenza pandemic "'is substantial, but seems to have been forgotten," Dr. Klugman recently wrote in a letter to the editor (Science 2007;316:49-50). He cited historical evidence of culturable pneumococci in the blood of at least half of the survivors and victims of influenza in two studies (Br. Med. J. 1919; 1:3-5; JAMA 1918;71:1735). And a randomized, controlled trial by Dr. Klugman and his colleagues has shown that, in children, vaccination against the pneumococcal bacteria results in a 31% decrease in pneumonias associated with respiratory viruses (Nat. Med. 2004; 10:811-3). "Because of the vaccine, they are not getting the superinfection that brings them to the hospital," he said at the meeting, which was sponsored by the International Society of Chemotherapy. "I think people have known for years that there can be bacterial superinfections with influenza, but they just didn't realize how common they were and how much of a role they play." The 23-valent pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine (PPM 23) is currently recommended in adults older than 65 years, but giving the 7-valent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV 7) to children is more protective against bacterial pneumonia in the adult population, he said. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that adult infections with the seven pneumococcal strains covered in the children's vaccine have decreased, while infections from the other 16 strains covered by the adult vaccine have increased. "The burden of disease in adults has been impacted more by giving the conjugate vaccine to children than by giving the 23-valent vaccine to adults," Dr. Klugman said. This has led some investigators to ask whether adults might benefit by being immunized using the children's conjugate vaccine. (See box, "Giving Adults the Children's Conjugate Vaccine May Backfire, Researchers Say".) Also, a new study (Lancet 2007;369:1179-86) offers the first evidence that vaccinating children protects adults against all pneumococcal pneumonia, not just bacteremic pneumococcal pneumonia, he said. Improving pneumococcal vaccine coverage in children could result in major reductions in infection across all ages, he said. "Only about 60% of kids currently get the full four doses of the conjugate vaccine, and it's that fourth dose that induces the full immunity and stops transmission, so we need to do a much better job of immunizing kids." REALTED ARTICLE: Giving adults the children's conjugate vaccine may backfire, researchers say. Is there a role for giving the children's conjugate vaccine to adults? A recent study suggested that it may not be as simple as that (Vaccine 2007;25:4029-37). Immunogenicity among elderly patients (aged 70-79 years) who were given the children's dose of conjugate vaccine was "nothing to get overly excited about," Dr. Klugman said. "Perhaps the dose designed for a primary response in kids is not enough for adults," he suggested. And a study presented at the 2006 International Symposium on Pneumococci and Pneumococcal Diseases by Dr. Andres de Roux, of the Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona, and colleagues suggested that the administration of the children's conjugate vaccine to elderly patients within 1 year of giving them the polysaccharide vaccine could actually suppress immunity. "It seems the adult vaccine interferes with the response to the conjugate, which is a concern, because it means we can't simply give the conjugate to people who have previously had the [23-valent vaccine]. There will have to be a strategy, and it seems that certainly the conjugate needs to be given before the 23-valent," Dr. Klugman said. Dr. Klugman said that in his opinion, a new conjugate vaccine, with coverage of more strains than the current one, will eventually replace the PPV 23 for adults. ARTICLES BY KATE JOHNSON http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/167306371.html |
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We all have ours! $60.00 a pop but 2 of our 4 insurances actually paid for them so it was only $120.00 total...the bargain of the year as far as I'm concerned.
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I got a booster shot last week. (Free under my health plan, Pacific Care)
I started getting the pneumonia shot about 20 years ago. When the immunity conferred starts to wear off, I get another shot. Almost died as a child from pneumonia and as an adult, when the immunity wears off, I start to get chest congestion and colds. A week after getting the shot, all colds and chest problems go away for years. It works for me. |
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AuntBones ![]() Adviser Group ![]() ![]() Joined: December 09 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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Last week I went to my doctor's office, nurse gave me my vaccine.
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libbyalex ![]() Adviser Group ![]() Joined: December 20 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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Got my pneumonia vaccine a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, spouse and 3 year old DS haven't been able to get one. -- Libby
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Marjo ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() Joined: January 07 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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Hi,
I made an appointment for next monday (couldn't get it sooner ![]() When I called they asked which kind of pneumo vaccination I wanted... Are different kinds??? Which one should I ask for? ![]() Marjo, The Netherlands |
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mountain ![]() Valued Member ![]() Joined: January 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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i walked into a clinic and got mine on 23 dec 05, $35.00 in vegas
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Marjo ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() Joined: January 07 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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Hi Albert,
thanks for the info! I'll make sure to get the right one ![]() Marjo, The Netherlands
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meewee ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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Just got back from getting mine! Cost $30.00 What a relief! Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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Good job Meewee! Mountain, you're on top of this thingt! Glad to hear you got it done early!
Edited by Albert |
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meewee ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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meewee ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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Used to work in the health care industry and now work for the school district in the cafeteria. Doc knows how prone I am to pneumonia and has been pestering me for years to get one...Only got the courage now thanks to you and this web-site Albert! Meewee |
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God Bless us all!
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hubby and i are getting ours on thursday at the department of health for $35.00 each. no appointment needed and age not a factor - they don't even want identification - just the $$$$$
kathie |
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I go to get my shot in the next couple of days! I do want to clarify that there is bacteria and viral Pneumonia. I will be using the VA and my husbands insurance, so it costs me nothing. I have included in order of concern: Complicated Influenza • Primary viral pneumonia • Secondary bacterial pneumonia • Bacterial sinusitis • Myositis • Myocarditis / pericarditis • Guillian-Barre syndrome • Reye’s Syndrome |
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Killer, Is there a vaccine for Viral Pneumonia? |
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LizG ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() Joined: December 15 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Hi I got mine 2 weeks ago. Didn't cost anything up here in Canada. I was happy, my daughter will get hers later this week.
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The simple answer is no, however, the bacterial pneumonia vaccine may protect against viral cases (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-07-11-vaccine_x.htm ) This shot most likely will help. Remember this flu's side effects are reported in this order of complication: Primary viral pneumonia (this is the most deadly complication of the Avian Flu) – According to a Medical Briefing on • Secondary bacterial pneumonia (this is what the vaccination is for, however it can help against the viral also) • Bacterial sinusitis • Myositis • Myocarditis / pericarditis • Guillian-Barre syndrome • Reye’s Syndrome Children under 2 can not get the Pneumococcal vaccination due to their bodies do not react to it. You may also have to get your older children’s shots scheduled at the community health agency, due to their age. Some states will not permit the doctors to write a script or vaccinate in their offices anymore. Young children get RSV easily, so keep them away from the sick. The pneumonia vaccine is generally given once, although revaccination after 3-5 years should be considered for children with nephrotic syndrome, asplenia, or sickle cell anemia who would be less than 11 years old at revaccination. Revaccination should also be considered for high-risk adults who received their first shot six years ago or more, and for those who are shown to have rapid decline in pneumococcal antibody levels. Notes: The major types of pneumonia are bacterial pneumonia, viral pneumonia, and mycoplasma pneumonia. Best tips for both viral and bacterial pneumonia:
I hope that this helps?! |
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halogen601 ![]() Valued Member ![]() Joined: January 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I had my pneumonia vaccination back in 1999 and thought they were good for a lifetime. Just out of curiosity, in 1999, was this the 23 type protective vaccine that Albert is referring to? I called my doctor and the nurse said that usually only high risk people get the shot. I reminded her that I was 44 years old and not high risk but she told me to come on in anyway on Saturday for another shot since they had plenty of vaccine. She commented that another pneumonia shot would not be harmful. I wonder if Blue Cross Empire Blue covers the cost? |
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Corn ![]() Valued Member ![]() Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1219 |
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i have an appointment for tomorow after lunc 45$ did i hear someone say in another thread that the menegitis vac may also be helpful? it's 110$ may get both since i have a large brain. Super Flu Man must protect himslf from all threats to the planet |
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You must have heard my mental call...I was gonna post "Where's Bird Flu Man, we NEED him" Re: Meningitis vax...I paid for my son to have his $160.00 @ our doctor. He will be the one out and about and so I thought it would be just one more layer of protection. Meningits is a common complication of viral infection. That's my understanding anyway. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/meningococcal_g.h tm |
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Corn ![]() Valued Member ![]() Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1219 |
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coool. guess i'll slpurge for the extra $220 on the both of us. between Tamiflu 2 doses and the pneumonia and menegitis thats'over $600. Include thousands on basic preps and if the BF don't get me a heart attack from seeing the bill will. |
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Pneumonia Vaccine Shot. I just wanted to let you all know that I tried to get my children the Pneumonia Vaccine shot and was turned away. Mainly because no one wants to give it, my doctors says to go to the community health department and they say go to my doctor’s office. After the run-a-round they both told me that they wouldn’t do it because my children were not in high risk groups. After I explained that they all have had lung infections before, they still refused. After explaining that it would help against the Avian Flu if it were to hit, the community health nurse laughed at me, saying “Do you have chickens and or kiss them.” I of course said “No” and she said, “Then there you have nothing to worry about”, “besides”, she said, “it will never go human to human.” After this I really understood how much trouble we are all in. Do not rely on the government nor the healthcare providers. I have had too many of them laugh this off and not even prepare for this. I guess I am done venting. As a note I do have a nebulizer and meds for it as a backup. April |
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kathie ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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got my pneu. vaccine today at the health department. i am 55 and my husband is 57 and they advised us that we will need another one when we turn 65 years of age. we were also advised that it will take 2-3 weeks from the time you get the vaccine for it to be effective.
kathie |
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bruss01 ![]() Adviser Group ![]() Joined: January 12 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Myself and my wife both got the vaccines (flu and pneumovax 23) when they brought a visiting nurse to the place where I work. Since I am a contractor, we had to pay, vs. employees who got the vaccines free. It's a state agency, I guess they don't want to be decimated in the event of an outbreak. Cost us 20 bucks for the flu, 30 for the pneumonia, so for 100 bucks we're all set - money well spent. The visiting nurse really, really resisted giving us the pneumovax, saying it was really only for old people. We good naturedly kept insisting, "yah, well, I think we'll go ahead and get it anyway". She eventually relented, since we were first in line and were holding up the works. But she wasn't happy about it. The flu shot was a little sore for a few hours, and went away. The pneumovax, however... OW! our arms were plenty sore for several days. Wow. Guess we really needed it. |
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Corn ![]() Valued Member ![]() Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1219 |
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got the shots. tell Albert.
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AuntBones ![]() Adviser Group ![]() ![]() Joined: December 09 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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Why do SOME health care workers act as if THEY are paying for your vaccine out of their paycheck! Everyday we a bombarded in regards to taking our health into our own hands. Funny most doctors are very pro active to EKG, Bloodwork,Chest Xrays, Colon scopes, M Grams for us women.....I could keep listing, but you all get the picture here.How many people just follow the doctors advice and get all the testing done....many do. Seems like when YOU are pro active, falls on deaf ears.
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Has anyone had their children to receive this shot? If so how old were they? I can not get anyone to do to around here and my Dr. asked me to go to another provider due to he has different beliefs on the subject. No harsh words, just frustration. |
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Rocky ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 219 |
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Forgive me for cross-posting. I see that others have had the same
problem I have had...getting the pneumonia vaccine for people under age 65? I can't find a Health Dept (WA State) whoe would consider vaccinating my family. I have grown children ages 30-45 (all teachers) and 2 school-age grandkids. Anyone have any suggestions? BTW The Health Dept. did recommended anyone 65 or older who had the pneumonia vaccine 5 or more years ago, to get a booster. To me, this situation is particularly alarming because if we do have a pandemic and it is anything like 1918, the worst hit were the younger people (about 20-40 year olds) in good health, with strong immune systems. As I understand it, their deaths were caused by a violent immune system reaction to the pneumonia following the original virus. Thanks ![]() |
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halogen601 ![]() Valued Member ![]() Joined: January 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Albert, I'm rather perturbed. After calling my doctor's office twice this week, I was assured that I could just walk in without a doctor visit or appointment and the nurse would give the pneumo shot. I stopped smoking on Thanksgiving, gained weight and became the Incredible Bulk. (My doctor reprimands anyone for gaining weight and I wanted to avoid his disapproval). I took off from work early today and when I got there, they said I had to see the doctor because I previously had a pneumo shot years ago (by the Visiting Nurse Association at work) and it should have been done in his office instead. I'm so angry now because the doctor office is booked solid. Just out of curiousity, when one visits a clinic, will they accept all incoming patients or is it based on need. Now I'm willing to pay the US$100 just to get the shot again but it seems that the providers are so reluctant to give it. |
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Just walk in, fill out the 3 forms of paper work, and that's it. They always have you do the new paper work so that they can get you into their system. Then, they call you in and wam bam - well, you know the rest ..... This is how clinics make money and why they're in business. They love selling vaccinations. That's their bread and butter. You will never find a medical walkin clinic arguing with you lol. They will gladly rush you in for the shot. Just pull into one of those many clinics that you drive by every day, and just pull in. The clinics are everywhere. These clincs are open all weekend long. There is no reason why everybody can't get it done this weekend, unless it's a financial issue. Edited by Albert |
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kathie ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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i am 55 and my husband is 57. health department questioned our ages because we weren't 65. told them i have lyme disease (true) and husband has asthma (true) and they didn't question us any further. anyone with a compromised immune system should be able to get the vaccine.
kathie |
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Albert, you have finally made it clear (at least to me, foggy headed as usual) that you aren't talking about the city or county run clinic but the ever convenient Doc-In-A-Box in your local strip mall. Now I understand your repeated statements of ease of receiving one.
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My fault. I should have described them better. Those places love to sell vaccines though. Sheesh. They almost push them on you lol. Kathie----- Good job to you and your husband. It's good to see a "family cluster" getting it done together. |
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