Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
SECONDARY PNEUMONIA FROM SEVERE FLU |
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ConcernedDad: Tell your pediatrician that the CDC recommends a PPV at age 11-12. I'm actually giving it to all the 11+ y/o I see in clinic right now to try to protect them.
K.
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i was surprised and ready for an argument with my pediatrician when i asked to have my four kids vaccinated with the ppv shot. at their recent physicals. my ped does a lot of work with the cdc in atlanta. he asked me why the ppv shot and i was honest with him telling him i am concerned about avian flu and he actually thought it was a great idea,
the only thing was they didn't want to vaccinate my youngest,,age 6,, but our 20 yr old, 18 and 17 yr olds they vaccinated right away.
after i look into the situation with the 6 year old,,i will be pushing to get her ppv as well,
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I apologize if this has been posted before. If you are having trouble getting the vaccine from your Doctor's office or a clinic, check the local pharmacies. Laws vary from state to state, but many allow either a pharmacist with speacial training to give vaccines, and many pharmacies will have a nurse show up on certain days to give vaccinations. This usually occurs just as school starts in the fall. If you can't get the shot in your state, try the closest state to you.
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I was told it lasts at least ten years. and possibly for life. I had one ten /twelve years ago and was told by a private healthcare clinic that another one was unnecessary for that reason. I feel fairly safe but I might get another one just in case. Beth
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Concerned Dad
Experienced Member Joined: July 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Thanks Kr105,
I found a place, A local doc said he would be happy to give it to my kids, wife and I. I do have one question though, if my kids were already given the PPV shot when they were under 2 years old, is it necessary to do it again now that there 5 and 8? Is there any danger in repeating? Also, I am reading conflicting data on how long its good for, is it 5 or 10 years? If the ladder, both my kids are good. Thanks |
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Penham
Chief Moderator Moderator Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14913 |
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Concerned Dad, the vaccines they get as infants/toddlers is not the same vaccine, they need the other one also. We got them for DD who is 10 and grandaughter who is 7, they didn't want to at first, but when I talked to them about H5N1, they went ahead and did it. Told us that when they reach adulthood (18) to get it done again.
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Penham
Chief Moderator Moderator Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14913 |
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Albert, thanks for that info sheet, I printed it out. Maybe if 21 year old DD takes this sheet in with her from the CDC they will decided to give it to her. Her DH is military and the military won't give her the vaccine, says she's not in the right age group, even though she does have asthma.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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pf, Good information.
The majority of deaths caused by any influenza are usually a direct result of the weakened patient getting a secondary pneumococcal bacteria infection (i.e. pneumonia). Most pneumococcal infections are caused by one of 23 different types of pneumococcal bacteria and can be prevented by a Pneumococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine (PPV-23) such as Pneumovax 23 (produced by Merck) and Pnu-Immune 23 (produced by Wyeth-Lederle). For children and toddlers there is less comprehensive but milder Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine (PCV-7). The pneumococcal disease kills more people in the First introduced in the 1980s, initially it was thought that one shot of the pneumonia vaccine would protect a patient for life but later research indicated that the vaccine did not protect for life and experts now recommend that high-risk patients get booster shots five years after the first vaccination.
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For those wanting antibiotics, try online vet stores, such as this one. http://www.vetamerica.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=242&Page=1
Yes, they are the same as prescription antibiotics you buy at the drug store. But a whole lot cheaper. I keep a good supply onhand at all times.
A friend of mine came by needing some for his wife, whos face was swollen up my an infection of some kind. I gave him some for her and he stopped by walmart (to placate his wife) and asked the pharmacist if they were the same. The Pharmacist said by law he could not say they were the same, but it was a common question he gets all the time. He then told him they all come off the same assembly line, but couldn't say anything after that.
He told him the dosage and to have a nice day.
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hey, I just want to thank everyone on this thread who gave detailed and precise information about getting a pneumonia shot. My DH was totally against getting one, very supportive of prepping, feels BF will happen and totally on board, except for this one thing. Even set up an appointment at doctors office and he cancelled at the last minute. I asked him to set down and read this thread from the beginning and he was about half way done when he stated lets all go get one Monday (today) . So this am, all three of us, including the 11 year old got our pneumonia shot. At first the nurse did not want to give the 11 year old one, but I reminded her that he had pneumonia when he was 6 years old. Thank ya'll again, if not for your detailed information, I NEVER would have been able to talk him into this very important preventative measure.
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candice
Adviser Group Joined: July 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 63 |
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Wear a mask when doing any chore that exposes you to any fine particles.
also put in a humidifier in the nasement to take the moisture out.
A Air cleanner in your bedroom , your most sensitve to bad air when yoiu sleep.
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If you cant get in the front door try the side door then the back door.
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ENTROPY
V.I.P. Member Joined: July 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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While secondary pneumonia is always a risk in pulmonary illness the fluid that is a reaction to the disease (HPAI) i.e. mucous,blood cellular debris dilutes the surfactant that allowa the alveoli (terminal structures in the lung) to expand. Surfactant is simply the lung agent that allows the alveoli to expand by reducing the surface tension. Thiis is much like soap in water when blowing bubbles. If the alveoli cannot expand the oxygen cannot interface with the micro-blood vessels and enter the bloob stream, nor can carbon dioxide be removed(exhaled). Carbon Dioxide crosses this barrier 20:1 faster than Oxygen. I do not want to demean the possible need for antibiotics in the rare cases that I believe a secondary infection would get a chance to develope. Volume delivery ventlators(respirators-Bennt) will be needed en mass if hospital treatment were to work, not Pressure delivery(bird) type. Also PEEP- Positive End Expiratory Pressure capibility would be essenstial. This merely is a maintained pressure and the endof the respirato cycle to foce the alveoli(lungs ) to stay inflated, to oxygen and carbon dioxide has a chance to cross into the blood. There are so few Volume Respirators available nationwide to handle the expected onslaught of cases. PEEP presure has to bo increased with severity and measured oxyge and carbon dioxide saturation by blood gas analysis(needle drawn-iced and analyzed) in yhe hospital lab. This is all easy for anyone to understand. There are not enough hospital ICU/Resp. beds in this country I love to do this. You folks on this site seem very common sense oriented and I wish more people viwed the site and took heed. The key is to preparre(prep) and self quarantine yourself and family. I believe the USA will be the best prepared nation for reasons that are in place and developing. I am a Board Certified General Surgeo and als Board Certified Plastic and Reconsruction Surgeon. I ran a Burn Center and Trauma trained career. I retired 5 years ago and am 59 now. I have seen so much and had the finest of teachers. It will be the simple things that will protect you and your loved ones and OUR COUNTRY! Thank YOU
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EYE in the SKY
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Thank you Entropy...ok now that sounds weird.
Social isolation and social distancing are truly the best we can do along with proper hygiene techniques. I am glad that you are posting. Welcome! |
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ENTROPY
V.I.P. Member Joined: July 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Sorry for all the typographical errors! I was always fortunate to have a typist at my office. My wife was laughing when she came home and saw all my errors. I really dislike typing. Thank You All.....
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EYE in the SKY
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We are hoping that what we have learned on this forum (having a stockpile of food, water and medicines) along with social distancing, using aseptic technique and some general common sense will help us survive the future, whatever it holds. I want to thank everyone who has so generously provided information for us to achieve that goal.
Welcome to the board Entropy, we will look forward to your posts. I am sure that as a member of the medical community your posts will be invaluable. Jo
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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pf, when are you going to leave my pneumonia vax thread alone?
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Entropy, welcome aboard and please, keep posting. We could really use your expertise on the medical threads!!
Are you familiar with alternative medicines which might be useful?? There is a lot of information, but I'm not sure whuch is correct. Particularly, it seems to me, if we take steps to strengthen the immune system, might it not make us more vulnerable to the cytokine storm? Or would it give us a better chance of fighting off the infection in the first place?
Prep on!!!
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Why is it that I can find no one who will give my 16-21 y.o. children and my husband this vaccine. Every doctor and clinic states the same thing "without a preexisting condition this vaccine is not warranted".
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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pf, it's a pneumonia vax thread. I know this because I'm the one who started it. I also started it in our foreign language rooms in all languages, as well as on our other forums. Believe me, I know the purpose of the thread. I don't want to sidetrack people from getting it done by turning this into a CS thread. I want to keep this somewhat focused.
I will start another thread for you shortly and you can state your case.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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With over 10,000 views, we have gotten many people to get the pneumonia vaccination. We have a good size wheel in motion with regard to getting the word out.
Approximately 50% of the secondary pneumonia cases are bacterial. The vaccination clearly increases the overall survival rate. From my understanding, the H5N1 virus has resulted in more bacterial infections than viral infections, so the number could be much higher.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Standingfirm, you don't strike me as the type of person who would take "no" for an answer. You might want to find a new doctor.
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where do you get the pneumonia shot and how much does it cost. i asked at my doctor office last month the nurse sais the flu and pn. shot wasn't out yet and only going to the young old and preg.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Sherrie, you can go to any walk-in clinic to get it. The price could range from $20.00 - $50.00 per person. Try to find the best possible price. Let me know what price you find.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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pf, I unblocked your email awhile ago.
I gave you the whole new thread. Post all of the info that you want. These threads can hold a lot of information.
Also, tell the wife not to give up. You can post a link to her vitamin supplement site here as well. You should ask her to start selling silver on her site.
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Rocky
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 219 |
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Apologies for the length, This is the email I sent re. pneumo vax 23 vaccine to my adult children who would probably join us if quarantine measures were appropriate
"If you have not gotten your pneumo vax 23 vaccine, please get it immediately. Forget about getting it from your regular doctor. They will tell you that you are too young, etc. This won't help with a viral pneumonia that can come with the avian flu, but will help with bacterial pneumonia that can come after many flus, especially the avian flu. It is an important step in all our efforts to remain healthy, pandemic or not. But in the pandemic plan it is one of the several things we can do to better our chances of staying healthy. Possibly tamiflu and some other medications we have will be another link in this chain. Possibly also statins (drugs for lowering cholesterol levels). if you take statins, please bring them with you if you come. We are just trying to gain as much advantage as we can. Antibiotics may also be helpful for various pneumonia strains. Every bit of protection we can manage is a step in the right direction Seasonal flu is no fun either. It can leave you incapacitated for weeks since it often leads to pneumonia (bacterial) Go to your neighborhood walk-in clinic and tell them you want to buy a pneumo vax 23 vaccine. Don't accept another kind of pneumonia vaccine. You want PPV 23 If you need a story, tell them anything that works, be vague. You get upper respiratory infections easily and can't afford to be laid up with a bacterial pneumonia that might follow the seasonal flu, you have occasional asthma attacks, you have had bacterial pneumonia and sure don't want it again under any circumstances, you work closely with an immune suppressed co-worker and want to protect him, you are going to be traveling where it might be important to have the vaccine, etc etc. But the easiest way is just going in like any consumer and telling them what you want to buy. Don't mention avian flu or bird flu. During any pandemic, people shouldn't gathering together as a group for quarantine protection unless they have a current seasonal flu shot (probably this Sept) and the pneumo vax (as soon as you can, like tomorrow!) i cannot emphasize this enough. Just dedicate half a day, make a list of the nearest clinics, walk in and tell them what you want. I wouldn't call in advance because they will probably give you the run around. The vaccine takes a while to kick in, so don't wait. Also, you might have a sore arm for a day or two, so if that is important they could probably give it in your hip/thigh." Rocky
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Rocky |
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after albert posted that for me i called the mea and minor med care and asked if they had any and how much they both said no, not till oct. and only if you are young, old, or preg. i am none of those but i am disabled but with bi-polar and arthritus. i was gonna try a baptist clinic on mon. and tell them i was told i had copd like my husband has but what if they ask what meds. i'm on and i say comvent. will i be able to get it. i also take care of my mother and uncle ( uncle in last stages of copd) not doing good at all. he had his shot last year not sure the name of it just said phe. we got it at kroger.
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Albert
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This could be a potential problem that I saw developing last winter. A lot places are selling out of the pneumonia vaccination because the word is starting to get out. I would suggest finding a clinic that has them available. They are out there, but you have to keep looking.
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ENTROPY
V.I.P. Member Joined: July 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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My opinions are just that and nothing to infer, suggest nor in any way give medical advice! I will only tell you my "educated" opinion from years of expierence, training, observation, intense education and current medical reading. Consult your own physician before making any decision. Vaccines and vaccination have a place in prophylaxsis and general medical therapy. That being said vaccines are not without very SIGNIFICANT risks. Passenger proteins, viruses, RNA,DNA fragments are often present. This is true even with recombinant formulations, unfortunately. I know personally of medical staff who received pooled plasma Hepatitis C vaccine and only later found out it wasn't recombinant. Some were HIV positive. Smallpox vaccine is still a problem and is given only under strict guidlines. Look at the history of BCG vaccine for TB where the patients were no longer capable of being diagnosed and treated with certainty due to the positive skin test caused by BCG. Yearly Seasonal Influenza vaccinations do not afford the protection people think each year. Look at the mortality rates, age adjusted, for those who receive the vaccination and those that don't.The vaccine every year becomes more polyvalent because the strains and codes are ever more varied. Rememeber the "problems" recently with the seasonal influenza vaccine from the European manufacturer. Vaccine for HPAI(Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza) will come along probley late and less precise than the companies would like. They are doing their best I believe but the magnitude of this is unfathonable. To take a vaccine for "something" else in the hope it will help fight off HPAI or a secondary is sheer lunacy in my opinion. The time may come when the governents will mandate vaccination even if the certaincy is not of sufficient risk ratio. That is because they MUST take action with respect to "SUPER-SPREADERS." It is not an enviable position to be in for such officials and authorities, but they may be forced to act. I believe this will be a 3 year process of waves of disease with diminishing numbers of cases. There is much more I would like to say but for now let me leave you with the following. There are various BioSafety Levels (BSL). you know of 1 thru 4 or 5 probably. In fact you will not find it on the Internet or elsewhere but there is BSL 7 which is Extraterestrial-now before you think I am nuts- remember when the men returned from the Apollo Moon missions they had to be Quarantined for just such a scenario. The reality of this is Common Sense Precautions, Hygeine, Minimal outside contact and life function/survival preparation. The Psychiatrist Carl Jung said "people cannot stand too much reality." Thomas Hardy(1840-1928) "If a way to the better there be, it lies in taking a full look at the worst." Mark Twain-"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.' i.e. vaccinations based on nothing more than anecdotal data for other diseases that "might" work for HPAI or secondary probabilities. Thank You...
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EYE in the SKY
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Unfortunately, doctor shopping can be quite costly and when you have others barely convinced of the necessity to do this, cooperation is almost nil. There are a few walk in clinics that I have tried to call but everyone quotes the CDC guidelines. I have had 2 vacs in my life and I am painfully aware that this was a necessity for me. Our pediatrician and most of the docs around here say that they are following CDC guidelines regarding who should be given a pneumo vax. At one confrontation I asked if the doc was following those same guidelines for herself and her family? She hung up on me. I have tried the face to face, intellectual approach, to no avail. I do not understand how others are able to obtain these vacs with no trouble at all. We cannot obtain any antivirals like Tamiflu or Relenza and all antibiotics that I have I have had to obtain by not taking them when they are prescribed for me for other things. |
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We cannot obtain any antivirals like Tamiflu or Relenza and all antibiotics that I have I have had to obtain by not taking them when they are prescribed for me for other things. [/QUOTE]
Standinfirm, This was on another thread, and seems likely to me that all antibiotics would be manufactured by the same companies and then distributed to phamacies and veterinarians, so I purchased some from here. The cost is minimal since I don't have insurance anyway and don't have to pay the dr visit and fake an illness. You can look and decide for yourself, the dosages are the same as what we get from our doctors. Jo
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Entropy: Thank you for your statement. It confirms for me what I have held in my heart. I will not elaborate lest I lead someone the wrong way. I mostly decide on the way to go through prayer and I am not anyone to follow.
I appreciate your honesty. Jo: Be careful because the quality may not be the same in pet antibiotics. |
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Rocky
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 219 |
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Just to make this clear, we are talking about pneumo vax 23 and NOT the seasonal flu vaccination, right?
If so, I agree (see my earlier post) about going to walk in clinics and saying you want teh pneumo vax 23 vaccination. Don't call first. If that does't work, I know relatives who have had luck calling places like WalGreen, Safeway, Costco, (etc. big name groceries with drugs and drug stores) to see when they are having the next pneumoia shot clinic. Good luck. Rocky
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Rocky |
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I called my children's pediatrician and she did not feel my children needed the PPV shot -- only those in a high risk catergory. She also does not administer, or recommend it. (Zero support here). The Pediatric nurse did state to call the Health Department which I did. The nurse there told me that it mostly given to those 65 and older and those with chronic problems such as diabetes, heart disease, etc. She also stated you can receive only 2 shots in a lifetime and that it is better to wait until you really need it ( I did mention avian influenza! -- what bettter time than now to get vaccinated!)
So, this leaves me wondering where I can immunize myself and my children with PPV. Any ideas? And, if I do have my children vaccinated -- and the Pediatrician does not support this action -- do I need to inform her to update the children's charts?
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Why only 2 in a lifetime and what is her guess about the time SHE thinks you really need it ?
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That is a great point -- it seems to be her opinion entirely, although she stated it like it was a fact. So, any idea where I can get my family vaccinated? Do most GP's offer the shot? Or, perhaps Patient First? Thanks very much.
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concerned,
--will probably have to wait until tonight befor MD gets on. I would like to know also.
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Albert
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CD - That's a good question. My physician recommended Zithromax. I too am interested in hearing other opinions.
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If your doctor is balking at giving you the pneumonia vaccine you could tell them a relative that is immunocomprised is coming to stay for an extended visit ie 3+ weeks and you would like to get the vaccine for their protection. |
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PPV 23 - Patient First -- $27.00
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Question: how safe is the PPV 23 for kids aged 8 -18? Has anyone had their children vaccinated yet? Would love to hear your experience. Thanks, Argll.
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Concerned Dad
Experienced Member Joined: July 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Tried it, he said, " The vaccine is for them not you" in other words, they had better be vaccinated to protect them selves and there compromised immune system from you, not you from them. That said, I have found another doctor locally that will give my wife and I plus our 2 kids our PPV shots. We have an appt next week. I do admit I am still a little unsure about getting the kids done, ONLY because there pediatrician refused to do it. |
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Concerned Dad
Experienced Member Joined: July 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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argyll, what does this mean? Sorry for my ignorance. |
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No worries ... I am referring to the PPV --pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine. (guards against 23 types of pneumoccal bacteria). Hope this helps!
Patient First offers it, no questions asked. Once you get it, you come back two days later and they examine the injection site. They also offer it to children from what the nurse told me.
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went to see about a ppv 23 shot this morning and no luck either they they don't have it or it's way to high. i couldn't believe it starts at 77.00. plus office visit for new patients. so if your in ms. and looking with no insurance i guess we'll have to save for it. i did call the health dept. and they don't have any but when they get it it will be 45.00 plus 20.00 for them to give it to you.does anyone live in lousiana or alambama that i might could get a price from there or name of a clinic. i don't mind driving cause i could ride with butch he goes out of town a lot.
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