Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
WHO: "Pandemic is 3 or more deaths..." |
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:32pm |
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WHO draws up plan to fight global outbreak of bird flu (Filed: 22/03/2006) The first measures thought to be capable of containing a global flu outbreak have been agreed by the World Health Organisation (WHO), a leading British scientist said yesterday. The plan makes it clear that there would be a window of opportunity of only around three weeks after an outbreak to prevent a pandemic that could sicken 20 per cent of the global population and put 30 million people in hospital, of whom around 20 per cent could die. Two computer models of an outbreak, one by Prof Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London, demonstrated last year that early antiviral treatment would be critical if H5N1 began to spread between people. In the past few days the WHO has published its first recommendations on how to carry out the plan. "This is remarkable," Professor Ferguson said yesterday. "This is the first time it has even been thought a possibility." The plan, or protocol, which was drawn up by more than 70 international experts and WHO staff, suggests for the first time that it may be possible "to alter the natural course of a pandemic near its start". By May the WHO will have a stockpile of three million courses of the antiviral drug oseltamivir in warehouses in America and Switzerland, after donations from industry. The modelling studies suggest that the mass administration of antiviral drugs must begin within 21 days after the detection of the first case, which would represent improved human-to-human transmission of the virus. The meeting agreed a point that would mark the start of a pandemic: "Three or more persons with unexplained moderate-to-severe acute respiratory illness (or who died of an unexplained acute respiratory illness) and with onset of illness within seven to 10 days of each other and with a history strongly suggesting potential exposure to the H5N1 virus." Two types of changes to the virus would be considered causes for concern: detection of a virus with new features, for example a "reassortant" virus containing both human and avian genetic material, or the isolation of a virus from a human case showing a number of mutations not seen in the avian strains. The national health authority should notify the WHO "immediately following detection of a credible signal". If the WHO agreed that this were a potential pandemic, a range of logistical measures and tests would be carried out along with control measures, notably the use of antivirals, quarantine and hygiene measures. But the document said that it would not be able to contain the pandemic if the number or geographical distribution of the affected people were too large at the time of detection, exceeded supplies of antivirals or the capacity of medical and emergency services, or if more than four to six weeks had passed since the detection of the initial cluster. http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&xml=/news/2006/03/22/nflu22.xml |
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Appeal for calm in Azerbaijan afer five bird flu deaths
Last Updated 22/03/2006, 11:09:44 - ABC RADIO "The World Health Organization (WHO) has appealed for calm after the deaths of five people from the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu in Azerbaijan, saying the disease is not spreading between humans. The five have died since February, and almost all were linked by family or other ties. However, the WHO says its investigations have shown that the disease is not spreading from person to person. While the source of the infection has yet to be positively identified, the United Nations health agency says it is suspected that most of the victims contracted the virus while plucking feathers from the carcasses of dead swans." http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/s1597848.htm?Asia |
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Breeze26
Valued Member Joined: March 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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Doesn't this sound like what has already happened??
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Sure does breeze26 and Azerbaijan has gone on their hols for a couple of days. Sounds like ostreich management to me.
I guess we'll know when they get back to work. Probably too late by then if it is H2H cluster. |
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Seems like a broad definition. I'll bet a hundred people have died this week who meet this condition. However, the true cause was tobacco.
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You are right about tobacco, you could also extend that to AIDS and Malaria in Africa and a host of third-world diseases. That is what makes the situation so tragic. |
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Two points I found as interesting....
1) The seven to ten day transmission period. That has NOT been met except perhaps in Turkey in the early days. Maybe someone could correct me on that point if I am in error.
2) The WHO have now publicly stated that a 20% death rate is likely.
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Thomas Angel
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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20 percent...do the math. Pretty damn grim. |
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Yes it is... but a danged sight better than 55%.
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Yeah....
and Optimistic. Speculative. What do they base it on? Wishful Thinking, I think. I believe that, pretty much, if you need to be hospitalized: you die.
Where I live, in NJ, county pop 125,000 the local hosp has a bed capacity of a couple of hundred. It runs at 90% all the time. Soo...20 beds available.
30% of the county is...what....37,000 people that need to be hospitalized. Uhm.....where? And what are they going to get? Nothing.
And that's Bird Flu light.
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Thomas Angel
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Bear in mind that if 20 percent is a fatality number it is going to overwhelm every system there is. We could expand the number of deaths to a great many more people who are going to fall into several categories, like 30 million diabetics in the U.S. alone who won't be getting any insulin...elderly that can't get their meds, anyone needing medical attention not related to the influenza, on and on.
20 percent of the world population, roughly 1 billion two hundred million people...
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Left Field
Adviser Group Joined: January 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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20%, that's a big jump from what they were saying just last week, but then again 2 weeks ago we were to stock pile food for 3 days, now we're told to get ready for 56 days (8 weeks), that's a big jump also, do you think any of they have a clue?
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Ah.. I was trying to once again upload my handy Avian Flu Mortality calculator from Xcel, but the upload file capacity is not working...
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Thomas Angel
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Yeah, I went to look it up in my WHO to plain English Dictionary since I shot my WHO translator yesterday. I can't find it, so apparently my staff removed it to reduce the number of inter-office incidents involving attempts to translate WHO gibberish to plain English.
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I think even 20% could be light when all is said an done. At that point it's a slide that carries even more collatoral damage as the food chain breaks down and stays broken down. With a worse case of 50/50....50% infection, 50% mortality, that is 1 billion 500 million people from *just* H5N1. Then add all the immediate collatorals: heart attacks/strokes/diabetics/cancer patients/accidents/sinus infections/abscessed teeth/ etc /etc. THEN the associated: man to man killings, lootings. Then the residual: long term starvation, exposure, secondary disease waves including those from unburied bodies - plus all the ongoing heart attacks/cancers/strokes, etc.
There is no *real* reason why a chain reaction of events could not lead to better than half of the worlds population, or evey more, dying over a 2 year period.
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Bannor,
Agreed. But I interpreted the figure to be strictly from H5N1 infection. Add collateral and we are talking one heck of a ride.
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Oh yea. I understand and agree - I just keep going beyond... Give me enough time and pretty soon I'll figure out how this is going to kill everybody on the planet.
except Spoon.
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If memory serves me, the fatality rate for Spanish Flu was 2.5%, which killed about as many people as died in World War II. Keep in mind the last time around, chickens were not infected. There will be a lot of collateral damage this time around. The economic dominoes have started to fall (except for the short-sellers). |
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wannago
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 16 2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 252 |
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Commentary
Fatal H5N1 Bird Flu Familial Cluster in Azerbaijan Confirmed Recombinomics Commentary March 21, 2006 Samples from 11 patients under investigation in Azerbaijan for possible H5N1 infection have now been tested at a WHO collaborating laboratory in the United Kingdom. Positive H5N1 results were obtained for seven of these patients. Five cases were fatal. Six of the cases occurred in Salyan Rayon in the south-eastern part of the country. All six cases resided in the small Daikyand settlement of around 800 homes. A 17-year-old girl died on 23 February. Her first cousin, a 20-year-old woman, died on 3 March. The 16-year-old brother of this woman died on 10 March. A 17-year-old girl, a close friend of the family, died on 8 March. All four of these cases lived together or near each other. The source of their infection is presently under investigation. The additional two cases in Salyan involve a 10-year-old boy, who has recovered, and a 15-year-old girl, who is hospitalized in critical condition. The seventh case occurred in a 21-year-old woman from the western rayon of Tarter. She died on 9 March. Two additional patients, from Salyan and the adjacent rayon of Neftchela, have been hospitalized with symptoms of bilateral pneumonia. Testing of these patients is presently under way. The above comments from the WHO update confirm media reports and commentaries on the relationship of the Azerbaijan familial cluster. It is reassuring that such relationships are again appearing in WHO updates. The initial familial clusters in Turkey did not include the relationship Like Turkey, in addition to the familial cluster there is a geographical cluster suggesting the transmission of H5N1 to people has become more efficient. The proximity of the Azerbaijan cases to the Dogubeyazit cluster in eastern Turkey raises the possibility that S227N may be involved. Donor sequences were identified in H9N2 isolates that are endemic to the region, so new recombinants could be generated. However, the S227N change only reduces affinity for avian receptors, so S227N detected in the index case in Turkey could have also been transmitted to the index case in Azerbaijan via infected birds. Alternatively, the close proximity of Azerbaijan to Dogubeyazit may indicate more efficient human-to-human transmission via less intimate contact. The dates of death of family members and a close friend suggest human-to-human transmission may be more efficient. Isolation of the H5N1 and release of the sequences from this cluster would be useful. Although one H5N1 sequences from the bird flu infection in western Turkey last October has been released, none of the sequences from human cases in Turkey have been made public. This delay appears to be linked directly to Weybridge, since they have already released the turkey H5N1 sequence from Turkey. Moreover, they have held a large number of H5N1 sequences from isolates throughout Europe. Other countries, such as Russia, Italy, France, Nigeria, Iraq, Iran, and Denmark The growing cluster in Azerbaijan highlights the need for immediatesequestered sequences as well as rapid release of the H5N1 in this new geographic and familial cluster. between three familial clusters of cousins. have released sequences as soon as www,recombinomics the accuracy of the sequence has been verified. release of the |
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wannago
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Thomas Angel
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Hey, you forgot suicides. That'll be the rage when all those Wall Street pencil pushing types realize they are broke, or go home one afternoon after a "hard day" screwing people for profit and find little Susy croaking in her $8,000.00 canopy bed complete with ruffled undercover and goose down comforter...
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wannago
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 16 2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 252 |
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I posted a recombinomics commentary above as it gives the dates of the cluster. Doesn't this meet WHO's criteria?
Sorry couldn't post URL. Having trouble posting |
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wannago
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Scotty
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Bird Flu Light.Good one. That might stick.
These recent posts seem to tie in with the theory that our governments have been advised to get this over with quickly.
Its quite possible that secondary deaths could exceed the actual flu casualties. Add this to the long term fall out caused by an economic collapse and a quick resolution starts to look like the only option available.
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In 1918, there were not a lot of people with long term chronic disease. That variable alone will change the number comparisons if we see sustained h2h with this situation. We also had a discussion several weeks back in the forum regard to the life expectancy rate in 1918 - it was around 50 years of age. People died early primarily of acute illness (no antibiotics) and accidents.
I agree with you Scotty, the rates of death from flu will not be as high as the rates of death due to untreated chronic disease (no medications so the person dies), acute illness (due to contamination of water, decomposing bodies, more bugs due to fewer birds), injuries (having to perform tasks they are unfamiliar with), starvation, and civil unrest (to top it all off).
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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Interesting. The Bible predicts 25% deaths in Revelation 6:8 from "....sword,famine and plague and by the wild beasts of the earth"
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Thomas Angel
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From "Laurel and Hardy": "it's a fine mess you've gotten us into this time, Stanley!"
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elbows
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Im afraid the 20% stuff they refer to is being misinterpreted here.
It looks like a low estimate to me, because they are saying that only 20% of the population will get pandemic flu, wheras I thought average estimates were 30%ish. Then they are saying that only 30 million people will need hospital care, and of those, 20% may die. So thats a prediction of only 6 million deaths, and I assume these are worldwide figures. They arent saying 20% of the world population will die, or even that 20% of those infected will die, just that 20% of those who are sick enough to need hospitalisation will die. Well thats what is being said in the way the original article in this thread is worded. Is 20% mentioned anywhere else with a different context? |
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Thomas Angel
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It's hard to decipher "WHO-speak", huh? Nothing they ever say is clear.
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Thomas Angel
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And I am wondering where they came up with a figure like that to begin with. Insofar as I can tell it's still running about 55 percent fatal B2H.
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gricha56
Valued Member Joined: March 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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I think the twenty percent figure is based on a mathematical theory called "return to the mean". My understanding of the theory is that after an unusual statistical occurance, it is probable that the next value will return to the mean. This is a probability, but not at all certain. Of course, twenty percent is much higher than the 2.5 percent case fatality rate attributed to the 1918 epidemic. Do you see signs of a struggle here?.
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