Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
What can be done to save our pets? |
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Cindy
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 2:08pm |
Why have I not heard anything about our pets? Does anyone know how we can protect them, and why there has been no discussion on a possible shot to prevent them from getting sick?
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Cindy
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Just a thought, but I would assume there are the same difficulties with having a vaccine for animals as there is for humans. They cannot make a an effective vaccine without knowing what the virus is.
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cv1632
Valued Member Joined: March 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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It is also possible that pets (depending on the pet) could become a major facilitator of infection in a pandemic. As it is progressing, it is affecting cats, dogs, etc.
Something to consider. |
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Why do some people Hate, with incredible passion, and yet without reason, consideration of fact, or any allowance for rebuttal. Father God, forgive me if I should ever be this intolerant of others.
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Cindy
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Do you think they will make us put them to sleep if they get sick?
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Cindy
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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If they get sick the kindest thing to do is to put them to sleep. This is not a nice way to die. You can take some precautions, keep your cats indoors only, and training your dogs to do their business in a certain area, we are thinking out using our garage for little dog. and wiping their feet. Our Bird will never go outdoors again, until there is a vaccine. She has a beautiful outdoor aviary, that she loves. She always gives the little sparrows heck for drinking her water.
My cats never go outdoors except on leash, so they won't have too much to adapt to
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Siam
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I'm so glad I have no pets whatsoever. It must be an added worry to you all.
HD |
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Cindy
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I don't let my cats outside either, but I have to let my Chow Chow out to go potty. I have a Siamease cat that is 15 years old, and I worry that my dog may bring the virus in the house with him.
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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Pandemic Flu can be contracted by both cats and dogs. In the 1918 epidemic, owners requested the police to shoot thier dogs. In Indonesia tigers at the zoo contracted H5N1 from birds they ate.My dog will occasionally kill a bird and bring it to me proudly and lay it by his dinner bowl. The Government of Thailand documented this is a study in 2005. See Recombinomics.com, Commentary, February 14, 2006."H5N1 in Dogs and Cats"
In a an H5N1 pandemic dogs and cats must be eliminated. I love my dog, but humans outrank dogs.
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Of course humans outrank pets, however there will be no need to "eliminate" household pets that are quarantined safely inside homes. The only way they will be exposed is if we expose them, and in that case, we have already exposed ourselves...
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7Strong
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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I also have some concerns. I have outdoor cats (I live on a small farm) I do not want the cats in the house and am also thinking about putting them in the garage. I don't know if that will be worse for them than having them put down. I also have a very old house dog that will need to go out. I suppose we will take him out on a leash but am still worried as he will be down sniffing around..... Will this be safe?
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Cindy
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I have six house cats and one dog. I have had my cat Samantha for 15 years and to me she is a member of my family, as are all of my pets. They are like children to me. I would like to take every step possible to save them.
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There is some good information throughout the forums regarding pets. I recommend looking in
for threads regarding care of our pets (Dogs, cats, etc).
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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I certainly do not want to eliminate my dog. But he will eat birds if given the chance. And it is undisputed that dogs and cats can contract H5N1.
I hope I could get someone else to shoot him.
I really like my dog.
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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JaxMax, I sincerely hope that you do not need to shot your dog. Hopefully you can devise a plan that will prevent your beloved pet from having the chance to eat the birds. Please read through the forums of some of the ideas that dog owners have come up with. There are many dog owners here who really like their dogs too and have come up with some great ideas. :)
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Oh my.... how I hate to read posts like yours JM.
I have dogs. Dogs that I consider to be my four-legged "children" and as such I have planned and prepped for them as well.
Although I do acknowledge that we will each have to make our own decision if and when the time comes. I would just beg and plead that all pet owners NOT turn their pets out to fend for themselves. If that means euthanasia, so be it... it is a better alternative to dumping them into an unfamiliar and impossible situation.
SZ
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Hey Jax ...
I'm hoping you meant stray animals and animals who had H5N1 or symptoms or been exposed ???? Couldn't argue there...BUT there are other options for pets ... although some measures are going to be expensive and difficult to maintain.
And how about preparing for 3 Llamas and a baby one due in April !!! ARRGGGG !!! I also have six Poms, but that's relatively easy!!!
I consider any ground that a bird could even fly over to be deadly contaminated from potential bird poop (it's everywhere, it's everywhere !!! ). And also any field critter could bring it in ...rabbits, field mice, deer, etc. So I won't let any of my "kids" (meaning animals only here; just them and me) set foot/paw on any such ground ... for at least two years !!!!
I'm working on a pretty elaborate set-up to house the llamas and to let them, my Poms ...and ME run "outside "... sorta.
I've devised a plan that could be scaled down for smaller pets, and I want to share it with y'all ... but it's almost dark here ... gotta go feed said llamas. And it's still a work in progress, so I really want input from you all.
I'll write later this evening. Glad you started this thread !!!
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MizScarlett, I look forward to reading your plan!
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P.S. I am going to move this thread into the Pet section of the forum, as it seems more appropriate there than the Latest News section. Please let me know if you think differently.
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being the one that I am....
what would you do.....honestly...i have 2 beautiful cats and a pup....spinger spainiel.pom....2 cockatiels....hummm 5 aquruims...so if i flushed the fish to fill the tanks will water that the children and i can use am I a bad person or a good person....
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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Me too Miss Scarlet. I was originally thinking baggie booties for my 3 dogs but that is 12 booties 3 times a day = 36 booties a day x 7 days a week = 252 booties a week! x 4 weeks in a month+/- = 1008 booties a month!! x 12 months = 12,096 baggie booties for one year!!!
I can not buy 12 thousand baggies!!!
Enter plan B:
How about I lay a tarp down on the grass, lets say 10' x 12' and hold it in place with bricks or large stones and then uncover for dogs to do their business, pick up said business, recover to protect grass/earth from birds, bunnies and all else, and done! Any thoughts?? I think my dogs are too old to train them to go inside on paper now. I tried and they just looked at me like "What the ^$$(^&^. ?" They are very good comunicators, I just wish I was as good. lol
C'mon we can solve this one. They're depending on us! fritz :>}
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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Siam
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Ironstone
Valued Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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I have a very small dog and both he and i like going out of doors. I have purchased sprinkler pipes and the glue for them to make us a covered area by the french doors but could move it to a slider. Enough plastic to cover the top and net screening all the way down to the patio floor. I plan on keeping that brick area scrubbed with bleach water to clean up after him (do that anyway) so we will have an outdoor area that will be inexpensive and useable.
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Ironstone
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Muskrat, I say eat the fish rather than flushing them (if safe to do so)... and no, I dont think you are a bad person.
Fritz, I love the idea about the tarp.
I came across something a while ago that was also interesting... here is the link http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1106
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I was thinkin of a dog run in my yard with a TARPE COVER. tHE FENCING CAN BE THE CHEAP KIND. i THOUGHT IF i CLEANED IT DAILY WITH A DILUTED BLEACH SOLUTION IN A SPRAY CONTAINER. i MIGHT PUT A TARPE BOTTON AS IT WOULD BE CHEAP AND EASY TO CLEAN.
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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why not cover it with the tarpe?
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Siam
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Cindy, do you have a patio or runway? Something that could be covered completely from the top and wire-screened on the sides. Would give your dog access to outside and protect him and you.
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Get a tent, the biggest you can find (used/new/whatever), pitch it, and cut the floor out of it.... instant outdoor shelter!!! and it allows the pet to have access to the grass/ground. Of course, the grass will die after a while, but at least it should be safer.
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Enumclaw,WA
Adviser Group Joined: January 31 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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We have 3 German Shorthaired Pointers. We had 4 but our oldest who was also our first we had to put down in October. I trained her for hunting from the time she was a baby. She was our hunting companion and dear friend. Getting rid of the other 3 which we have also trained from puppies after what we went through in October is not an option. The 2, 3 year olds are our 6 year olds pups. These dogs have to run. So run they will. We have a fenced back yard ½ |
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RB
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sheilad1
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We are going to take care of the dogs the same as we take care of each
other. Between myself and my son's family we have 4 dogs. 2 are
pretty old but we think we can get them to go on paper (we have started
saving newspapers) if we put some of their waste on newspaper to get
them started. I think we can make that work. I like the
tent idea, though I don't know how to secure the walk to the
tent. I don't want to walk on anything that can't be washed down
with bleach.
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Just a Nurse 2
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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While you're thinking about wiping of the puppies feet when they come inside, don't forget to leave your own "outdoor" shoes outside in a protected place. They think the bird flu that hit the turkey farms in Israel could have come in on farm equipment, or people, right??
"According to the officials, the disease apparently came from Sinai via people who visited Egypt and carried the virus back with them on their shoes, clothing or personal effects. At least one such person was then apparently employed by the turkey farms where the virus first erupted - possibly as a supplier of food or equipment, or as a driver who transported the birds to the slaughterhouse - and he transmitted the virus to these birds"
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Cindy
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The tent idea sounds like a good idea! I do have a deck, but I think it would be hard to put a cover over it.
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Love the tent idea I will be copying it pronto simple convenient doable
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Amethyst
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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I have a gecko. I am hoping to be able to take care of her during a pandemic, but honestly if it gets to be a really bad situation, I'd probably just let her go. That would be my absolute last resort option though, and I'd only do it if society gets to the point where there is no or very little social order left.
I know they can go for a week or two without food, since they store fat in their tails. The type of gecko I have is a leopard gecko. They're insectivores and won't eat food unless it's moving. I normally feed her mealworms.
Water is another issue, though. I will prep for her water as well when TSHTF. They cannot drink straight tap water because the chlorine makes them sick, so you either have to purify it or get bottled water.
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gpolson
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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We recently launched the
Pet Bird Flu Information Center
with full coverage of background information, preparation, prevention and breaking news of bird flu in pets. I think you will find it very helpful.
gary polson
polson enterprises
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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Hi all, Very nice website gpolson!! I will read it all later. Thank you.
I love the idea of the tent!! Great idea! They have these sun tents, not camping tents, where they have a top and minimal sides, if any, then you could put some netting across the sides maybe. The walk to the tented/tarped area is an issue if you have large dogs. I have 2 little ones (chinese crested powder puffs) and 1 big standard poodle. I guess one of us could carry him (not fun....70#s) but I thought we could just pour the bleach disinfecting solution over the walk to get to the area, just before he goes on it. Dunno. I have to really read more of gpolson's sight. I just took a quick glance. Does anybody know how much bleach (bleach to water ratio) to use to make it effective but not harmful to the animals? All I know is that the alcohol gel is drying out my hand like mad!! I can only imagine what bleach will do to my dogs foot pads. OUCH!
TTFN fritz :>}
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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Good website for cat and dog owners
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Siam
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Wonderful job on compiling all the information Gary, thanks for sharing! |
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i like the tent idea and am thinking of putting one up for myself beside it with a sun roof that can be put up and down. cant live without real sunshine daily
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Hydrangea
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Very informative website. It answered a question I had intended to post
here about cat food. Almost everything my cats eat contains poultry. It
would be horrible to feed my kitty-girls BF tainted food and then hear
about a recall. According to the website "most commercial cat foods are
cooked above temperatures required to kill H5N1 virus." Of course I
still plan to stock up on kitty food and the sooner I do it the better.
My 4 cats are all indoor-only. They enjoy sitting by the screened back door watching birds flutter around feeders. For now feeding the birds has stopped. My only other immediate concern is caring for one of my two 19-year-olds who has chronic renal failure. I absolutely have to get over my fear of needles- very large needles- and learn to administer the lactated Ringers that she now receives by subcutaneous drip twice a week at the vets' office. Not only do I worry about her picking up a BF infection from other animals, especially when it first appears, but I wonder about the supply of Ringers which is also used to hydrate humans. If there were to be a pandemic I'm sure that the humans would have priority. |
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flick
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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The tent idea is fab! I have an old one I can use and that will solve the doggie problem as far as letting them outside(I have 4) Thanks!
AS far as keeping their feet clean, Dog "booties" are easy to make.
I am working on a pair now. They can be hand or machine sewn depending on your skill level.You can using baby training pants, the kind with terrycloth on the inside and plastic on the outside. The training pants are waterproof and should last thru multiple sanitizing.
Cut out a circle roughly the size of your dogs foot.
gather up and add elastic around the edges to make a little "bag". The terrycloth goes on the inside. Make sure you measure the base of your dogs leg right above the foot and deduct a quarter of that size for the length of elastic you need.plan to use the booties for outside and then remove them after they go out. also plan to drop the used booties off in a pan of bleach and water solution to soak. Dry them out and use them again. Make more than one set for your dog so you can rotate them.
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flick
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I forgot to add:
To attach the elastic;
You can either make a casing for it; fold over a 1/4 inch (dont forget to add this to your initial measurement) sew the bottom seam of the hem leaving a small opening to thread the elastic thru. thread the elastic with a safety pin thru the casing .pull to tighten the elastic and sew the elastic together.
Or just use the zigzag on the machine.
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I put booties on my Australiain Shep. .... he's allergic to the 'rust' that grows on our grass for a couple of weeks each summer .... I use INFANT BABY Socks! You can buy pkgs of 6 or 8. Look for the tight fitting ones and then you can just wash them in a bleach mix, if you buy white. They work great.
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ReadyMom thanks for the great idea! I've been wondering
how to protect my dog. I have a Great Dane, so the tent idea is out, and going on papers in the house is not an option! |
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GrizzlyGirl
Valued Member Joined: April 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Be careful what you wipe you dog's feet with because alot of disinfectants are highly toxic to dogs and small amounts can cause liver or kidney failure fairly quickly. ANother option would be to make disposable bootie for your dogs out of baggies and baby booty socks. Just put the baggies on their feet (cut any ziploc off) and then secure it on their feet with a baby bootiy. This way they will still be able to romp and when they come in all you do is drop the booties in some bleach water to ruese again and throw away the used baggies. Hope this helps.
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Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much!!
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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Vet says a 30:1 bleach solution should do the job to disinfect doggie feet. I do like the baby bootie idea and I will go get some this week and try them on them. This still does require purchasing a whole lot of baggies!! I'm gonna watch for the sales on the store brand kind!!
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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