Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Voluntary Isolation - Governent Intervention |
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floridagirl
advanced Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: April 07 2006 at 2:02pm |
We all have the common goal to try to aviod getting sick by isolating ourselves and families until the pandemic is over. Is there any reason we could be forced to leave our homes? I imagine at some point health officials will come knocking on our doors...then what? |
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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The current plan is for everyone to be isolated at home for 3 reasons:
1. The government will not have the personnel to do otherwise
2. If the govenrment moves you they have to feed you
3. Moving you would spread the epidemic
There is no reason you would be forced to leave your home, particularly if the epidemic is widespread.
I monitored the Centers for Disease Control quarrantine webcast on February 7, 2006 and in home quarrantine is the preferred solution, unless you are caught on an infeted airliner or in transit.
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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2ifbyC
Adviser Group Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Believe it or not, having the gov. come to my door is my greatest fear. 'Cause I will NOT go to a gov. shelter! Be it hurricane, BF or whatever I'll rely on my preps, not the governments'. There are too many bad stories from the 'cane shelters the past several seasons to encourage me to go.
If I need to leave, it will be voluntary and to a place of my choosing. New Orleans should be a definate warning to those unsure of what to do.
HAVE A PLAN! Edited by 2ifbyC - April 07 2006 at 2:49pm |
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Survival does have an 'I'!
Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast |
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floridagirl
advanced Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Good point about the government having to feed and take care of you. And, yeah, I can imagine nothing worse than being forced to go to a shelter or out in public.
Is there a plan out there where healthy people would be forced to volunteer or work because of labor shortages? Almost like a "draft".
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tazman
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 13 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I believe that you should start fortifying your home front. How to secure windows, doors etc. Check out these 22 tips on home security.
http://www.resistbirdflu.com/Home_security.htm |
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floridagirl
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No plan unless or until martial law is declared. Then you could be ordered to remove and bury the dead as an emergency sanitation crisis.
This happened in the 1918 epidemic.
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Small problem here. Dead infected bodies, even if buried, will spread untold amounts of disease. Put them in a pile, pour gas on them and burn them. It may sound kind of bad, but is piling people into a mass grave any more humane? At least burning them will end the infection in the bodies right then and there. If you bury them there's a possibility the disease could get out some time later and start the whole problem over again.
If a pandemic does start and it's as bad as some think it may be, burning bodies to halt spread will be easy as pie after the horrors you'll get to witness people doing to each other.
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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Turboguy
Whatever we have to do. I have no problem with creamation.
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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May
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Creamation is more common now, I would opt for it.
Burial is a sensitive subject. I know that many young children would not deal well with the idea of creamation. Many parents plan burial if their children are young at the time of their death. May not have a choice.
here is Canada's plan...
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Beth
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Floridagirl. I fear some kind of draft - people being made to volunteer to nurse etc., or to go to work in a crisis, just to help keep the economy going. Even if we don't work in essential utilities etc. Penpushers will be needed too. And people to face the public - supplying food, welfare cheques etc. What does everyone think? Beth
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Samoa
Valued Member Joined: March 30 2006 Status: Offline Points: 507 |
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We're assuming rampant pandemic, here. Turboguy hit it on the
head. Back to the days of "corpses...stacked like cordwood".
Regions that DON'T resort to that will be really asking for
trouble.
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A corpse needs about 2200 degrees for an extended amount of time to burn, so just pouring some gasoline on won't do the trick. Plus, it will actually help spread the virus because of the various hot and cold spots within the fire. Anyone who has ever started a campfire, remember the ambers floating around??? No, I think it will have to be trenches, far away from a water source.
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All -
I am knee deep in pandemic flu plans. No government I have been working with, or anyone in a network of agencies I've heard of, is remotely thinking of taking you out of your homes. The hope, and frankly the challenge, is getting people to be smart and voluntarily stay home. We expect that most either wont be able to our wont take it seriously. The only time you have to worry about the "government" grabbing a person is if they are out in public, wandering around either clearly sick or somewhere they shouldn't be or doing something crazy like looting or preying on the weak. No government, or the military for that matter, has enough people today to "round everyone up", much less when 30 to 40% of their own staff is sick. All government personal will be focused on taking care of at risk populations (think elderly), providing services, and maintaining law and order. BlueSky |
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Scott
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 06 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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FEMVET is right on. Cremation is not something that can be done efficiently in the back yard.
Use LIME. or Just bury six feet down. That will keep the animals from digging them up. Scott |
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As the Dark Horse Approaches.
Improvise Adapt and Overcome! |
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floridagirl
advanced Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thanks for the good information Blue Sky. What you are saying is a relief! What I'm really wondering about is there a plan in place where healthy citizens would be forced out of their homes to work? I'm guessing that since you said 40% of the current government and medical community could be sick, would they call on healthy people just sitting at home to help out and fill the shortage of labor?
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Look up Ececutive orders, posted by Mountainwinds, you'll find the authoritve answer there. guess what: it's YES
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It's Executive Order # 11000
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floridagirl
advanced Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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WOW!!! Guess that answers my question...
OK so knowing that the government can have authority to redistribute resources (even personal ones) and draft labor in a crisis situation, how do the preppers use this information to
a - minimize the odds of getting drafted into a high risk (meaning getting the flu) job
b - protect your stash
I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but what's the point of preparing for home isolation if there's a good chance it will be not be allowed?
What is the best plan for survival? Should "prepping" include a plan to "avoid the draft" and go into hiding until the thing is over?
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2ifbyC
Adviser Group Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Survival does have an 'I'!
Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast |
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Back online tonight. THe question posed was can, and will, the
government compell you to work? Perhaps some could interpret
some Executive Orders in such a light ( I dont), but I will tell you
no. What I and many have found (even in the military) is that
coercion is a complete waste of time. Its that whole "you can
lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" story. You
can't force people to work and expect anything productive.
You can however, appeal to human nature, to a citizens sense of community and ask for help. Also, there is some discussion on the local government level about how to organize volunteers to do low-skill but very important jobs. Of special focus, is the good news story that within weeks of when the first wave hits you will have thousands of people who had become sick but got well and then have immunity --the hope is that those people can step forward and help their neighbors, their hospitals, the red cross, etc. You are not going to get drafted, no government agency has a plan or the will or the resources to force you to work. Even the military hates the idea of a draft. |
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floridagirl
advanced Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thanks for the input Blue Skys. That's good information. If a mandatory "draft" is unlikely, do you have any ideas of some ways that a regular citizen could help out in a pandemic in a low risk sort of way?? It would be difficult to sit back and do nothing. Are there skills I could learn now?
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BlueSky, how do we know we will be immune? There are two or three different distinct H5N1 viruses now.
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Floridagirl, contact your local Red Cross and sign up for First Aid and CPR courses. Everybody should be doing that.
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As for how do you know you know if you have immunity...the answer is, the only 100% certain way is a blood test to check for antibodies. Even then (as cathypeanut) points out you will only have 100% immunity to the exact strain that infected you. However, that means you will have very high immunity to its near-term mutuation. Lets say H5N1* infects you. You recover. It mutates into H5N1**, your immune system still recognizes this close H5N1* cousin, and although you may get sick agin, it is far less likely and even if you do, it is more likely you will be less sick and recover more quickly. There is considerable case evidence of this happening in 1918 as people lived through sucessive waves. As for what you can do...I'm with FemVet, learn first aid, check with the Red Cross now about their volunteer programs. Get to know your neighbors, or maybe there is an elderly couple that gets delivered meals everyday now --maybe you can plan on filling in for a "meals on wheels" driver in a pandemic. If you are a truck driver/or have other skills, maybe in the event of the worse case, you can volunteer with the city to drive supply trucks (although very, very few communities are starting skilled volunteer lists at this point).I think it is great that you might want to help!
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janetn
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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Bluesky thank you for the information on forced conscription - Being a nurse this has worried me a great deal. I had already decided I wouldnt go even if jail was a possiabiltiy. Your information does put me at ease a little.
What you said about leading a horse to water is true - under forced conscription you would have to spend more effort to keep the conscripted workers on task [if that was even possible] than what the value of the labor would be.
Might i ask what your position in the government flu planning is? That is if you can share that.
Thanks again
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