Going outside during the pandemic

If the pandemic actually occurs, will it REALLY be harmful to go outside?  I mean, other than the risk of dealing with potentially contaminated people?

newyork - I live in Colorado (from New York originally) in a resort/rural area and I agree with Ironstone. Be careful where you step and if you have cats don't let them outside as they can become infected. I will walk my dogs but make sure they are clean when they come in - maybe put some sort of "boots" on them. Welcome to this forum!

I think this is a case of overeaction.  I really have a real problem with the idea of staying indoors just because birds in your area MAY be infected.  Evidence indicates that it takes close contact to catch H5N1 from infected birds.  It is much harder to catch that way than catching traditional flu from humans.

Diseases Caused by Pest Birds

Diseases Associated with Pest Birds Bacterial Paratyphoid Vibriosis Salmonella Listeriosis Pasteurellosis Fungal Histoplasmosis Candidiasis Sarcosporidiosias Blastomycosis Viral Encephalitis Meningitis Newcastle Disease St. Louis Encephalitis Protozoal Toxoplasmosis Trichomoniasis American Trypansomiasis Rickettsial Rickets (Does not include diseases spread by parasites which live on pest birds).

The general public's affection toward birds translates into a serious underestimation of the

A nasty pigeon nest, consisting mainly of droppings and twigs, plays host to many parasites and diseases that can easily be passed to humans.

health risks associated with pest birds. People who would never tolerate a colony of rats living in their attic will turn a blind eye towards pigeons entrenched in the rafters of their roof. Yet, in terms of disease and damage, the two pests are quite similar. In order to better understand how nuisance birds (or rats for that matter) spread disease we need to understand the basics of disease and transmission.

What is a Disease?
When normal body functions become disrupted due to a foreign invader or an internal malfunction, we call the disruption a disease. Diseases caused by foreign invaders are called infectious diseases. The invading agents that account for the majority of infectious diseases are grouped in the following five categories; viruses, bacteria, mycotic (fungal), protozoal and rickettsial. From a layman's standpoint, the classification and definitions of disease are less important than how these diseases spread and how can we protect ourselves from them. Diseases need to be transported from place to place in order to spread. Birds are a perfect mechanism for spreading disease because they travel great distances, harbor over forty types of parasites and can host internally over sixty types of infectious diseases.

Fortunately, human interaction with most bird species is minimal, thus drastically reducing any health threat from most birds. However a few bird species have successfully adapted to our urban environment. The pigeon, starling and house sparrow have learned to thrive living in our buildings and eating our food. Their adaptation to our communities has brought them into close proximity to humans. These three non-native birds have become a major nuisance in our cities and they pose a serious health risk.

How Pest Birds Harbor and Spread Disease
The five types of infectious agents listed above can be associated with birds in the following ways: the disease lives in the bird and is passed on when the bird defecates; the disease lives in the birds surrounding environment and is spread by the birds lifestyle; the disease lives inside a parasite that the bird harbors. From understanding how the bird harbors diseases we can demonstrate the four ways the diseases are passed by the bird to humans.

Food & Water Contaminated with Feces
The most obvious example is when the diseased bird directly defecates into a human food or water source. In the summer of 93, New York faced a health crisis when several hundred people came down with a mysterious ailment. The illness was traced to sea gull droppings in an old city reservoir. Health inspectors are quick to shut down a food processing plant if nuisance birds are found inside. Besides direct contamination, airborne spores from drying feces in air ducts and vents can settle on exposed food and transfer disease. Several thousand cases of food poisoning (Salmonella) every year are attributed to this disease transmission route.

Inhalation of fecal dust
As bird feces and/or the contaminated soil it rests on, dries or is disturbed, microscopic pieces break off and become airborne. These airborne particles can contain dormant fungi and/or bacteria. When breathed into the lungs, the warm, moist environment of the lung lining provides a breeding ground for the infectious agents. Common symptoms of this type of infection are flu like in nature: coughing, elevated temperature, restricted breathing and general body fatigue, and last roughly two to four days. The vast majority of the time, the bodies defenses will contain the invaders even before minor symptoms appear but in a small percentage of cases, major infection causing long term disability and even death occurs. It is worth noting that there is no known medical cure for internal fungal infections. After the Northridge earthquake, several thousand people came down with flu like respiratory symptoms. The ailment was called Valley Fever and was caused by people breathing in dust and airborne debris filled with histoplasmosis spores and related fungal agents stirred up by the earthquake.

Direct contact with feces
Infection occurs when a worker or resident gets fecal dust or droppings in an open wound or cut. This commonly occurs when handling old rusty, sharp porcupine wire ledge products which are covered with bird feces. The wound site becomes red, puffy and puss-filled. Antibiotics are often needed to cure the infection. In some rare cases, infection of the blood (Septis) or internal infection can also occur causing serious illness or death. Proper attire and care must always be used when cleaning a bird site or installing bird control products. If a cut or injury occurs, thoroughly wash and disinfect the wound and cover with a sterile bandage to minimize risk of infection.

Associated Parasites
Pest birds harbor ticks, fleas, mites and other ectoparasites. Parasites transfer disease in the following manner. The parasite bites an infected animal and sucks in blood containing the germ. When the bug bites its next victim it passes along the germ to the new victim. This occurs because parasites inject some of their saliva into the host when feeding. Over forty types of parasites live either on the birds, in their nests or in the places they roost. They are responsible for the transmission of several hundred viral and bacterial agents. These diseases include plague, encephalitis, pox and meningitis. Control of these parasites is a crucial phase of the bird control project. Paradoxically, this threat can be aggravated when bird control products are installed. Unless the parasites are exterminated when the birds are excluded from a site, the mites, fleas, ticks etc. will seek a new host, often the human inhabitants. Therefore, a proper bird control project will always include parasite extermination.

How to Handle Pest Birds Problems From A Health Perspective
Using our understanding of how nuisance birds play a role in disease transmission, we can develop a few guidelines when dealing with bird infestations.

First and foremost, bird infestations are to be taken seriously but not irrationally. When evaluating a health risk potential look for the following: droppings or nesting materials inside air vents, birds around food or beverage production facilities, or large amounts of droppings in enclosed areas. These are the types of situations where disease can be spread. Remember, pigeons walking around your park bench is not cause for panic, while twenty birds living in the roof-top air ducts of a restaurant is a serious health concern requiring action. Second, pest control professionals and do-it yourselfers must take the proper precautions when tackling bird control projects. Respirators, goggles and protective clothing must be used when cleaning up bird sites, particularly enclosed areas out of the sun with large amounts of droppings and nesting material (please see our separate information sheet on protective safety equipment).

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Finally, it is not enough to remove the birds, it is crucial to exterminate all the ectoparasites and thoroughly disinfect the site. Please refer to our page on bird waste cleanup for more information.

http://www.dhpe.org/infect/valley.html

"As bird feces and/or the contaminated soil it rests on, dries or is disturbed, microscopic pieces break off and become airborne. These airborne particles can contain dormant fungi and/or bacteria. When breathed into the lungs, the warm, moist environment of the lung lining provides a breeding ground for the infectious agents."

Where birds fly they poop. If it's on car windshields and the back deck, it's also on the sidewalks and the grass where it gets on our shoes and pants legs.

Dried airborne particles are also on our clothes, skin, hair, and the dog's hair.

I haven’t seen anything that convinces me it’s save to go outside even in an isolated area. We live in a fairly isolated area too and would love to be able to be outside, but I don’t think it’s safe.

Convince me it's safe! I want to go out too!

(Once someone has avian flu, I do think fresh air makes sense.)

 

 

I mean, its the Human-to-Human version that will cause the pandemic, that is humans infecting other people, not birds any more than now.

nawty

Beth - I'll probably reget this but your post cracked me up.

So ... do you scent it first or just use it as is?

I actually have a couple closet shelves full of essential oils and soapmaking supplies to get rid of so I can store more preps. So I imagined you choosing a scent for your swan mucous. Sorry.   

We will have to go outside for the horses, but we intend to be very careful and social distance.

Bird droppings maintain the life of the virus for up to 45 days.

scott

It will not be a problem until infected birds arrive in your country. After that the garden has to be treated as a contaminated area.  Lawn mowers would be a very effective way of distributing the infected bird droppings as an aerosol.

Great material here, but I think I am still searching frantically for a reason to validate the safety of going outside. Here is my question, obviously I need some accurate, technical info to answer it. A reminder, I live isolated and would only be with family members. No outsiders.

The pooping, coughing, feathering, fluttering, sneezing etc of a sick or about to be sick bird could contain BIRD virus, right. And this infectious material can be transferred fromj bird to bird.

And this stuff could stay infectious up to 45 days, resting in dirt, grass, etc.- BUT

Is this particular bird to bird virus harmful to humans (ie scuffed up in dust and inhaled). This virus we are talking about has not gone from bird to human to ME, but from bird to bird to ME. My breathing in some dust mixed with this virus-how serious is that since I am NOT a bird?

I would still err on the side of caution by putting my outside only shoes on and off with gloved hands, perhaps wearing only outside clothes which are taken off outside and popped into bleach water before washing, disinfecting feet of dogs who went for a leash walk with me and who remain kenneled outside) etc.

Please, your thoughts. Rocky

Fruitcake wrote: People do not mention goggles too often, but they should be airtight, which tends to rule out ventilated DIY goggles which probably do not fit very well either. A good off the shelf solution is a pair of standard swimming goggles which are air tight and chlorine proof.  Decontamination of the mask depends upon what type you are using.

redcloud in the UK you can get prescription swimming goggles. Maybe you can get them where you are. 

Yes to cover the body and hair to limit contamination a little. May help who knows?

Yes, disposable overalls here too. Two huge boxes of them - there are five of us.

We don't intend to go out unless it's an emergency. We're fairly rural, but you can still pick it up from birds even once it's mutated to become h2h.

I also want the coveralls in case one of us comes down with the virus. We'll use all of the gear that fluprepper mentions each time we go into the sickroom.

That will be goggles, mask, disposable overalls with hood, double vynyl gloves, boots with disposable covers. Actually our overalls have booties attached (ugly as can be)  A surgical mask for the patient if possible.

I intend to survive it if I can - I have children to raise.

disposable overalls - this company has the best price that I could find - if you order a case...

http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=125&idproduct=532

http://www.protective-clothing.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=125&idproduct=410

Aurora,

Hang on I'll find it.  I do think you could ask without being rude.

Hong Kong University microbiology professor Yuen Kwok-yung said it is possible that the latest mainland victim may have contracted the virus through - what he called- casual contact.

Yuen said it is possible for people to catch the virus just by walking through a wet market near seemingly healthy chickens.

It's H2H we have to guard against isn't it? I'm staying indoors for the duration unless I get called up to do something and prison is the other option! Dont think I could take prison.

Well this is kind of refreshing!  I'm used to being kidded about my paranoid survivalist tendencies, but some of you folks leave me in the dust.  (Hopefully not H5N1 virul-laden dust.)  If BF goes H2H in a big way, I'll quit going to work and the kids won't be going to school, and we certainly won't be going out into groups of people.  Maybe we'll even spray the shoes with a bleach solution after being outside.  But we will be going outside, just to maintain some sanity.  From everything I've read the odds of catching H2H BF from taking a walk down a paved suburban street are close to "zero."  If I'm wrong, you all are more than welcome to help yourselves to my "stuff."