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Coming of the Ice Age - 2014-2015

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OriginalHappyCamper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2015 at 5:41am

MELTDOWN MYTH: Antarctic ice growing is just the first EVIDENCE global warming is NOT REAL


http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/617144/Antarctica-not-shrinking-growing-ice-caps-melting

When you get a large religious organization involved in a non religious issue ie global warming ask yourself why are they involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2015 at 8:29am
Originally posted by OriginalHappyCamper OriginalHappyCamper wrote:

MELTDOWN MYTH: Antarctic ice growing is just the first EVIDENCE global warming is NOT REAL
When you get a large religious organization involved in a non religious issue ie global warming ask yourself why are they involved.


http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/latest-data-shows-arctic-ice-volume-has-increased.html

All religious considerations aside - how could we go from large increases to record levels to a current meltdown. Who is putting out the numbers and which are accurate?

Latest Data Shows Arctic Sea Ice Volume Has Increased

05.02.2014
05.02.2014 20:45 Age: 2 yrs

Satellite data shows that Arctic sea ice is getting thicker as Antarctic sea ice extent continues to expand to near record levels, according to a report issued by the US National Snow and Ice Data Center, in Boulder Colorado, today, 5 February 2014.

comment: and then this


In 3 years have we had a major meltdown? If so, this has to be messing up the Gulf Stream and we could see record low temps this winter in North America and Europe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2015 at 8:33am
Jacksdad - Look at what I posted for 2012. Apparently a lot happened since 2006.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2015 at 9:28am
Yep, I've been seeing the slew of news stories about the apparent increase in ice, Med. Things are definitely changing, and at an unprecedented rate.
I think the thing we should take away from this is that our climate is indeed moving away from what we've long considered to be the norm, and in a way that's apparently a lot faster than we would expect. Human intervention? I believe so. While others can deny it, I still stand by my assertion that if you accept our weather/climate is determined in large part by the amount of solar energy our atmosphere can hold on to, significantly changing the composition of that thin layer of gas has to have repercussions. It's just cause and effect - pure and simple.
What many people fail to understand is that climate change is not as simple as "global warming" - localized cooling can be one of the consequences of a warming planet and doesn't automatically debunk it. If we screw things up badly enough we can disrupt complex and powerful mechanisms like the thermohaline circulation, and gulf/jet streams, and significant cooling can result in some regions while average global temperatures continue to rise. I'll be the first to admit that climate change science is still in it's infancy, but I don't believe we know enough about this to be so blase as to dismiss it given the potential ramifications for future generations. Climate change denial is pseudoscience at best, and at worst a deliberate campaign of misinformation by those who stand to profit the most.
Hey, here's a thought. How about we all agree to disagree on this one, but quit polluting the one planet we have because it's the intelligent thing to do? Just a suggestion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 8:59am
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Yep, I've been seeing the slew of news stories about the apparent increase in ice, Med. Things are definitely changing, and at an unprecedented rate.
I think the thing we should take away from this is that our climate is indeed moving away from what we've long considered to be the norm, and in a way that's apparently a lot faster than we would expect. Human intervention? I believe so. While others can deny it, I still stand by my assertion that if you accept our weather/climate is determined in large part by the amount of solar energy our atmosphere can hold on to, significantly changing the composition of that thin layer of gas has to have repercussions. It's just cause and effect - pure and simple.
What many people fail to understand is that climate change is not as simple as "global warming" - localized cooling can be one of the consequences of a warming planet and doesn't automatically debunk it. If we screw things up badly enough we can disrupt complex and powerful mechanisms like the thermohaline circulation, and gulf/jet streams, and significant cooling can result in some regions while average global temperatures continue to rise. I'll be the first to admit that climate change science is still in it's infancy, but I don't believe we know enough about this to be so blase as to dismiss it given the potential ramifications for future generations. Climate change denial is pseudoscience at best, and at worst a deliberate campaign of misinformation by those who stand to profit the most.
Hey, here's a thought. How about we all agree to disagree on this one, but quit polluting the one planet we have because it's the intelligent thing to do? Just a suggestion.


One of the best parts of AFT is the ability to agree to disagree. Over the years it has evolved from some pretty heated debates to intense but mostly courteous exchange of opposite views. Perhaps climate change is a science which at present is not as developed as it will be with advances in technology and the ability to extrapolate from the narrow band of data we have over millions of years.

As many in the U.S. and other countries became more "eco-aware" in the last part of the 20th century, people have seen the results of the Industrial Revolution.
http://www.softschools.com/timelines/industrial_revolution_timeline/40/

Is the climate change related to something done by humankind?

On the edge of things we have this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
This is not industry - this is military. By doing research on controlling the weather, could we have messed up parts of the Ozone layer?

Is America the primary polluter in the world of gases which may be causing global warming or regional cooling?

China, United States, Russia, India, Japan, Germany, Canada,Britain,South Korea, and Iran are the worst and in that order, China being #1.
http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/who-are-the-worlds-biggest-polluters?articleId=USRTXRKSI#TiH5DMJwHlu0XGSZ.97

Some surprises there for me. Iran?  South Korea? in the top 10? Yes, there are. So, any efforts to lower pollution is going to be the result of a pact formed by these nations to lower their output of it. How many of these nations have real serious intentions of doing so and not just stalling doing so by a decade or more? How quickly will their lack of action cause us problems?

Many say it already is and even if we stopped today it would take a hundred years or more to really make a difference.

So while many can agree in the private sector, who is willing to give up jobs and threaten their economy during a period of global economic instability.

For now we can continue to agree to disagree on whether or not humankind is causing it and to what degree. As to whether they can fix it... signs point to no. We had best prepare for decades of climate issues and possible power blackouts and either very cold or very hot.

Medclinician


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 9:01am
Originally posted by Medclinician Medclinician wrote:

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Yep, I've been seeing the slew of news stories about the apparent increase in ice, Med. Things are definitely changing, and at an unprecedented rate.
I think the thing we should take away from this is that our climate is indeed moving away from what we've long considered to be the norm, and in a way that's apparently a lot faster than we would expect. Human intervention? I believe so. While others can deny it, I still stand by my assertion that if you accept our weather/climate is determined in large part by the amount of solar energy our atmosphere can hold on to, significantly changing the composition of that thin layer of gas has to have repercussions. It's just cause and effect - pure and simple.
What many people fail to understand is that climate change is not as simple as "global warming" - localized cooling can be one of the consequences of a warming planet and doesn't automatically debunk it. If we screw things up badly enough we can disrupt complex and powerful mechanisms like the thermohaline circulation, and gulf/jet streams, and significant cooling can result in some regions while average global temperatures continue to rise. I'll be the first to admit that climate change science is still in it's infancy, but I don't believe we know enough about this to be so blase as to dismiss it given the potential ramifications for future generations. Climate change denial is pseudoscience at best, and at worst a deliberate campaign of misinformation by those who stand to profit the most.
Hey, here's a thought. How about we all agree to disagree on this one, but quit polluting the one planet we have because it's the intelligent thing to do? Just a suggestion.


One of the best parts of AFT is the ability to agree to disagree. Over the years it has evolved from some pretty heated debates to intense but mostly courteous exchange of opposite views. Perhaps climate change is a science which at present is not as developed as it will be with advances in technology and the ability to extrapolate from the narrow band of data we have over millions of years.

As many in the U.S. and other countries became more "eco-aware" in the last part of the 20th century, people have seen the results of the Industrial Revolution.
http://www.softschools.com/timelines/industrial_revolution_timeline/40/

Is the climate change related to something done by humankind?

On the edge of things we have this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
This is not industry - this is military. By doing research on controlling the weather, could we have messed up parts of the Ozone layer?

Is America the primary polluter in the world of gases which may be causing global warming or regional cooling?

China, United States, Russia, India, Japan, Germany, Canada,Britain,South Korea, and Iran are the worst and in that order, China being #1.
http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/who-are-the-worlds-biggest-polluters?articleId=USRTXRKSI#TiH5DMJwHlu0XGSZ.97

Some surprises there for me. Iran?  South Korea? in the top 10? Yes, they are. So, any efforts to lower pollution is going to be the result of a pact formed by these nations to lower their output of it. How many of these nations have real serious intentions of doing so and are not just stalling doing so by a decade or more? How quickly will their lack of action cause us problems?

Many say it already is and even if we stopped today it would take a hundred years or more to really make a difference.

So while many can agree in the private sector, who is willing to give up jobs and threaten their economy during a period of global economic instability?

For now we can continue to agree to disagree on whether or not humankind is causing it and to what degree. As to whether they can fix it... signs point to no. We had best prepare for decades of climate issues and possible power blackouts and either very cold or very hot One of the best parts of AFT is the ability to agree to disagree. Over the years it has evolved from some pretty heated debates to intense but mostly courteous exchange of opposite views. Perhaps climate change is a science which at present is not as developed as it will be with advances in technology and the ability to extrapolate from the narrow band of data we have over millions of years.

As many in the U.S. and other countries became more "eco-aware" in the last part of the 20th century, people have seen the results of the Industrial Revolution.
http://www.softschools.com/timelines/industrial_revolution_timeline/40/

Is the climate change related to something done by humankind?

On the edge of things we have this...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program
This is not industry - this is military. By doing research on controlling the weather, could we have messed up parts of the Ozone layer?

Is America the primary polluter in the world of gases which may be causing global warming or regional cooling?

China, United States, Russia, India, Japan, Germany, Canada,Britain,South Korea, and Iran are the worst and in that order, China being #1.
http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/who-are-the-worlds-biggest-polluters?articleId=USRTXRKSI#TiH5DMJwHlu0XGSZ.97

Some surprises there for me. Iran?  South Korea? in the top 10? Yes, they are. So, any efforts to lower pollution is going to be the result of a pact formed by these nations to lower their output of it. How many of these nations have real serious intentions of doing so and not just stalling doing so by a decade or more? How quickly will their lack of action cause us problems?

Many say it already is and even if we stopped today it would take a hundred years or more to really make a difference.

So while many can agree in the private sector, who is willing to give up jobs and threaten their economy during a period of global economic instability.

For now we can continue to agree to disagree on whether or not humankind is causing it and to what degree. As to whether they can fix it... signs point to no. We had best prepare for decades of climate issues and possible power blackouts and either very cold or very hot climate in some areas or even globally.

Medclinician



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Medclinician Medclinician wrote:

For now we can continue to agree to disagree on whether or not humankind is causing it and to what degree. As to whether they can fix it... signs point to no. We had best prepare for decades of climate issues and possible power blackouts and either very cold or very hot.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 1:48pm
Spot on!  Dry/wet, windy and unpredictable too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2015 at 8:49am
Just could not leave this thread alone. People reporting or submitting data saying that we are not in a period of global warming are being "noted" and there are even some sites up fiercely debunking reports of cooling. Getting back to basics, things are melting yes, but at the same time it is diluting the Gulf Stream and we could see (with a bad El Nino) fierce cooling in the United States and Europe.

Assuredly, I swear, the current mentally of TPTB (the powers that be) in having a conference in Paris which was just hit by terrorist has to be a classic mistake. As people gather from around the world to change history by stating that humankind is responsible, protestors and naysayers abound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Nations_Climate_Change_Conference

The 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference, COP 21 or CMP 11 is being held in Le Bourget, from November 30 to December 11.[1] It will be the 21st yearly session of the Conference of the Parties to the 1992 United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and the 11th session of the Meeting of the Parties to the 1997 Kyoto Protocol.[2] The conference objective is to achieve a legally binding and universal agreement on climate, from all the nations of the world.[3][4] Leadership of the negotiations is yet to be determined.

According to the organizing committee, the objective of the 2015 conference is to achieve, for the first time in over 20 years of UN negotiations, a binding and universal agreement on climate, from all the nations of the world.[1]

Pope Francis published an encyclical called Laudato si' intended, in part, to influence the conference. The encyclical calls for action against climate change. The International Trade Union Confederation has called for the goal to be "zero carbon, zero poverty", and the general secretary Sharan Burrow has repeated that there are "no jobs on a dead planet".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2015 at 8:39am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Niña

La Niña causes mostly the opposite effects of El Niño, above-average precipitation across the northern Midwest, the northern Rockies, Northern California, and the Pacific Northwest's southern and eastern regions. Meanwhile, precipitation in the southwestern and southeastern states is below average.[7] This also allows for the development of many stronger-than-average hurricanes in the Atlantic and less in the Pacific.

The synoptic condition for the Tehuantepecer is associated with high-pressure system forming in Sierra Madre of Mexico in the wake of an advancing cold front, which causes winds to accelerate through the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Tehuantepecers primarily occur during the cold season months for the region in the wake of cold fronts, between October and February, with a summer maximum in July caused by the westward extension of the Azores-Bermuda high pressure system. Wind magnitude is weaker during La Niña years than El Niño years, due to the less frequent cold frontal incursions during La Niña winters,

comment: perhaps El Nino is getting a lot of attention right now - but soon things will change - perhaps drastically - and those polar vortexes will be coming down to visit us once more.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 1:39pm
the Global convayer stopped just after the last ice age,

result the world was in another ICE AGE for a 1000 years ,

its on the brink of stopping now ,

melt water from Greenland is pouring MILLIONS of gallons a minute into it ,

when it stops as it has in the past ,all the northern hemisphere will be plunged into another 

ICE AGE .......

i fully agree with everyone on this point,and have been saying it for years,

WAKE UP its happening NOW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 1:53pm
2000 years ago the population of the planet was 2billion and had been that way for millenia up until the

 industrial revolution 1850

from 1850 till now we have put on this planet another 6 billion people 

300 years ago there was not a car on the road ,plane in the sky and all ships where driven by the wind,

think of all the live stock that has also been added to feed us,

wake up we are the cause.......

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Yes we are all the cause and that is why a pandemic will have to take out millions to maybe a billon or two of us. We need to cleanse the earth of too many people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2015 at 9:39am
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Yes we are all the cause and that is why a pandemic will have to take out millions to maybe a billon or two of us. We need to cleanse the earth of too many people.


With the mutation of new viruses, a real possibility that we will see at least North America - Europe climate change that will be a whole lot like an Ice Age for New York and London -  with or without our little elevated C02 and nasty factories, the Earth can fend for itself and will. No religion has ever promised us that we will be here forever and we won't.

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http://www.americantraditions.org/Articles/New Evidence that Man-Made Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Does Not Cause Global Warming.htm


Global climate changes have been far more intense (12 to 20 times as intense in some cases) than the global warming of the past century, and they took place in as little as 20–100 years. Global warming of the past century (0.8° C) is virtually insignificant when compared to the magnitude of at least 10 global climate changes in the past 15,000 years. None of these sudden global climate changes could possibly have been caused by human CO2 input to the atmosphere because they all took place long before anthropogenic CO2 emissions began. The cause of the ten earlier ‘natural’ climate changes was most likely the same as the cause of global warming from 1977 to 1998.


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So gathering data to continue the possibility of at least possible mini-age temperatures in the United States and Europe in the next 20 years.  I am continuing this thread in Coming of the Ice Age 2016

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Climate Myths courtesy of Robert M. Carter

LAYING TEN GLOBAL WARMING MYTHS

Myth 1     Average global temperature (AGT) has increased over the last few years.

Fact 1       Within error bounds, AGT has not increased since 1995 and has declined since 2002, despite an increase in atmospheric CO2 of 8% since 1995. 

Myth 2     During the late 20th Century, AGT increased at a dangerously fast rate and reached an unprecedented magnitude.

Facts 2      The late 20th Century AGT rise was at a rate of 1-20 C/century, which lies well within natural rates of climate change for the last 10,000 yr. AGT has been several degrees warmer than today many times in the recent geological past. 

Myth 3     AGT was relatively unchanging in pre-industrial times, has sky-rocketed since 1900, and will increase by several degrees more over the next 100 years (the Mann, Bradley & Hughes “hockey stick” curve and its computer extrapolation).

Facts 3      The Mann et al. curve has been exposed as a statistical contrivance. There is no convincing evidence that past climate was unchanging, nor that 20th century changes in AGT were unusual, nor that dangerous human warming is underway.

Myth 4     Computer models predict that AGT will increase by up to 60 C over the next 100 years.

Facts 4      Deterministic computer models do. Other equally valid (empirical) computer models predict cooling. 

Myth 5     Warming of more than 20 C will have catastrophic effects on ecosystems and mankind alike.

Facts 5      A 20 C change would be well within previous natural bounds. Ecosystems have been adapting to such changes since time immemorial. The result is the process that we call evolution. Mankind can and does adapt to all climate extremes.

Myth 6     Further human addition of CO2 to the atmosphere will cause dangerous warming, and is generally harmful.

Facts 6      No human-caused warming can yet be detected that is distinct from natural system variation and noise. Any additional human-caused warming which occurs will probably amount to less than 10 C. Atmospheric CO2 is a beneficial fertilizer for plants, including especially cereal crops, and also aids efficient evapo-transpiration. 

Myth 7     Changes in solar activity cannot explain recent changes in AGT.

Facts 7      The sun’s output varies in several ways on many time scales (including the 11-, 22 and 80-year solar cycles), with concomitant effects on Earth’s climate. While changes in visible radiation are small, changes in particle flux and magnetic field are known to exercise a strong climatic effect. More than 50% of the 0.80 C rise in AGT observed during the 20th century can be attributed to solar change. 

Myth 8     Unprecedented melting of ice is taking place in both the north and south polar regions.

Facts 8      Both the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are growing in thickness and cooling at their summit. Sea ice around Antarctica attained a record area in 2007. Temperatures in the Arctic region are just now achieving the levels of natural warmth experienced during the early 1940s, and the region was warmer still (sea-ice free) during earlier times.

Myth 9     Human-caused global warming is causing dangerous global sea-level (SL) rise.

Facts 9      SL change differs from time to time and place to place; between 1955 and 1996, for example, SL at Tuvalu fell by 105 mm (2.5 mm/yr). Global average SL is a statistical measure of no value for environmental planning purposes. A global average SL rise of 1-2 mm/yr occurred naturally over the last 150 years, and shows no sign of human-influenced increase. 

Myth 10   The late 20th Century increase in AGT caused an increase in the number of severe storms (cyclones), or in storm intensity.

Facts 10    Meteorological experts are agreed that no increase in storms has occurred beyond that associated with natural variation of the climate system.

comment: So - depending on whose computer model you run you can get just about anything. In some conclusions the common sense factor is noticeably absent.


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