Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
World on cusp of 'post-antibiotic era' |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Posted: November 18 2015 at 9:52pm |
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This might be as big, or bigger, than a flu pandemic, although it might not sweep through the world so fast.
And guess where it developed....
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34857015 |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95537 |
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Also: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/18/us-health-bacteria-gene-iduskcn0t739620151118?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=564d437304d3013fa9fd47e3&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter#IoXbUgboGY2334RF.97
A new gene that makes bacteria highly resistant to a last-resort class of antibiotics has been found in people and pigs in China - including in samples of bacteria with epidemic potential, researchers said on Wednesday. The discovery was described as "alarming" by scientists, who called for urgent restrictions on the use of polymyxins - a class of antibiotics that includes the drug colistin and is widely used in livestock farming. "All use of polymyxins must be minimized as soon as possible and all unnecessary use stopped," said Laura Piddock, a professor of microbiology at Britain's Birmingham University who was asked to comment on the finding. Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/18/us-health-bacteria-gene-idUSKCN0T739620151118#ytiIkEYUz5E7etOk.99 and:
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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Satori
Valued Member Joined: June 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 28655 |
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time to panic in 3,2,1...
There is now no antibiotic without resistant bacteria. http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/11/19/1451944/-There-is-now-no-antibiotic-without-resistant-bacteria |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Definitely something to panic about. Got a cut? That could be life threatening when we've finally created drug resistance in all common bacteria. And no new class of antibiotics is in the pipine for the forseeable future (although I'm sure that livestock producers would render any new medications useless in short order). This is definitely big news, but most people won't realize until they lose loved ones to common infections.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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LOPPER
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Has this new bacteria been shown to be resistant to teixobactin, which is a new antibiotic made from dirt and shown to be able to kill other antibiotic resistant bacteria. |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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It's not just one bacteria - it's just about every class of bacteria that are developing drug resistance. And if it hasn't happened yet, just wait until we screw that one up by over prescribing...
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Though colloidal silver shows some small antibacterial effect, no good on its own, it boosts antibiotic effectiveness massively. A good point to remember if you are one of the first unlucky ones.
Hey, all you medical bods, what is the chance of developing a vaccine for this super mutant bug? We have to try something, otherwise this will be a colossal, genocidal serial killer.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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The real skill will be learning techniques to halt infections before they become systemic and unstoppable. Treating wounds will be invaluable. Hydrogen peroxide, iodine, hot salt water (one of my faves), learning how to drain wounds and apply sterile dressings will be life savers.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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I think, JD, this is a forgotten set of skills. It sure is here in the UK, I hope you are luckier over that side of the pond.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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LOPPER
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Using soil from a grassy field in Maine and a miniaturized diffusion chamber, scientists have cultivated a microbe that could help tame the spread of antibiotic-resistant superbugs. When tricked into growing in a lab, the microbe makes a compound that kills strains of tuberculosis, MRSA and other deadly pathogens that are immune to even the most powerful drugs. Tests in mice showed that the newfound molecule is “exquisitely active against some very hard-to-deal-with bugs,” said Northeastern University microbiologist Kim Lewis, the senior author of a study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. Experts said the discovery could lead to a new class of antibiotics for the first time in decades. If so, it would give doctors a much-needed weapon in the microbial arms race that has tilted in favor of bacteria. The World Health Organization has warned that the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria threatens to undermine the advances made by modern medicine. In the United States, more than 2 million people are sickened by such infections each year, and 23,000 of them die as a result. Most of the workhorse drugs in use today were developed at least 50 years ago. During the heyday of antibiotic research immediately after World War II, soil microbes yielded the mainstays in the fight against deadly infections. A previously uncultured bacterium, Eleftheria terrae, is able to make teixobactin, a new antibiotic for which there is no detectable resistance. (William Fowle, Northeastern University) Lewis and his colleagues revived that idea to find a new species of bacteria they named Eleftheria terrae. Soil is chock full of microbes, but most don’t readily form colonies in petri dishes. In addition, many of the organisms uncovered in such samples are identical or similar to ones already developed. “You inevitably are rediscovering penicillin and streptomycin,” Lewis said. To encourage new bacteria to grow, the researchers couldn’t just dump their dirt into a laboratory dish. Instead, they isolated minuscule samples in diffusion chambers that functioned as bacterial incubators. Then they put the samples back in the soil. “Essentially we’re tricking the bacteria,” Lewis said. “They start growing and form colonies.” The experiment yielded about 10,000 strains of bacteria, which were laboriously sorted and studied. Researchers then checked to see whether any of the strains could kill streptococcus bacteria. Finally, they extracted the antibacterial molecule from E. terrae, one of the more promising strep killers. Trials on mice showed that the molecule, which they called teixobactin, rapidly cleared infections of drug-resistant strains of Mycobacterium tuberculosis and Staphylococcus aureus bacteria, according to the study. They also felled two kinds of bacteria that cause serious infections of heart tissue, Lewis said. The compound attacks these and other gram-positive bacteria by binding to chemicals essential to forming cell walls, causing them to break down. “Not only one target is attacked, but multiple targets, and they are all lethal,” said study coauthor Tanja Schneider of the University of Bonn in Germany. This mechanism of destruction makes it much more difficult for bacteria to develop resistance to teixobactin. Most antibiotics attack proteins, but the DNA that codes for these proteins is known to mutate. Over time, some of these mutations allow bacteria to evade a drug’s lethal effects. The DNA that includes instructions for making cell walls is far less likely to mutate, researchers said. Indeed, when they tried to encourage bacteria to develop resistance to teixobactin, they couldn’t. Lewis said teixobactin kills so quickly that target bacteria will have less time in which to develop resistance. It took about 30 years for bacteria to develop resistance to a similarly acting antibiotic, the study noted. Researchers said any new drug probably would remain effective at least as long. http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-new-antibiotic-teixobactin-20150106-story.html |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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It is, Techno. We take a pill and call it fixed these days. Maybe the medical interventions section might benefit from some posts along these lines.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Think outside the box would be my advice to them. - All staff washing their hands regurlarly, but wearing ties which drag. Wearing shoe covers, then people walk in off the street. Using disinfectants often on the floor, but not bothering to clean the privacy curtains or wipe down the railings around/controls of the bed itself. - Just a few points.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Good article, Lopper. I'm not sure that (without new legislation and the will to adhere to it) I feel as optimistic about the thirty year life span of a new class of drugs though. Overuse, both in humans and more importantly in food animals, has risen sharply in recent years. Any new class of drugs will probably see far more use than it's predecessors did in previous decades. I just don't think we're smart enough to see the dangers of over prescribing. China in paricular has never shown any willingness to cut back on the prophylactic use of antibiotics and antivirals in livestock and poultry despite the well documented risks. After all, they left us with nothing but Tamiflu after adding antivirals to the drinking water of poultry for years.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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They've been talking about this on the news here in NZ, and saying that part of the trouble is people demanding antibiotics from their doctors for colds and the flu. Apparently 60% of people don't know that antibiotics are no good for the common cold or the flu.
I recently went to the doctor with a flu like illness and she told me that there was a good chance I'd need antibiotics in a weeks time if it went to my chest but she wasn't going to hand them out now, I'd have to come back. As it happens, I was fine. I notice on this site lots of Americans talking about their z packs. It's always being mentioned whereas over here, I've never heard of them. We've had loads of people on this site listing their medications like some badge of honour to show us all how prepared they are and how they don't muck about but go for the hard stuff at the first sign of illness. I know we all want others to make the sacrifice but just want to do what we want when we want, but perhaps we should all slow down a bit before we demand antibiotics and try to allow our bodies the time and rest and care that they need to heal.
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Agreed KiwiMum! I do have my antibiotics store, but they live in the fridge (to extend their life) and are really for emergencies post-whatever-apocalypse.
Yes I have used them pre-apocalypse. Several times on animals when the repeat vet prescription was too pricey - but I knew what it was, once when the vet attempted mono followed by dual therapy for a TB infection (TB requires polytherapy, if not the TB rapidly becomes resistant to all drugs used and this was happening in my cat's case) and once on a human when the third antibiotic the doctor gave failed - on a bacterial blood infection which was turning nasty very fast. (Quite a few people around here, personally known to us, have died from sceptacemic infections. It seems to be a weak spot in our local health service.) That might class as post-personal-apocalypse or post-local-apocalypse, I do not know which. If not then perhaps I should have my wrist slapped! I do know I share the widespread guilt though. Hazlepad's point about combining antibiotics to kill infectious bacteria fast enough to prevent it from adapting is a good one too. If you must use antibiotics USE MORE THAN ONE! A bacterium which has adapted to amoxycillin can't pass on its resistance genes to its children if it died from enterofloxacin poisoning, for instance. And finish the course, or the dormant bug might recover and the truly resistant strain might emerge from its partially resistant offspring. If the disease is minor, hang on a bit, you may recover without. If you must use antibiotics then use them good and hard! If you do not know how long to use them for, post apocalypse, currently my rule-of-thumb is: until the symptoms stop + at least 20% additional time + 2 days. This mops up the partially resistant stragglers. For Example: The cough required azithromycin. It abated after 48 hours. Azithromycin taken for a further 3 days (2 + 1 + 2). The stomach bug persisted for 2 weeks. Co-amoxiclav taken for 20 days (15 + 3 + 2). (I made this one up - the other two were actual treatments. "The Merc Manual" or "Infectious diseases of the Dog and Cat" might have a variation on this choice of antibiotic.) The TB improved massively after about 6 weeks and became undetectable after about 6 months. Rifampicin, clarithromycin, isioniazid and ethambutol for the first 8 weeks and rifampicin, clarithromicin and ethambutol continued for 9 months (TB hides - you have to be really sure). Any one or even two of the cocktail could have been dropped, but isioniazid had the worst side-efects. This could be replaced by a tetracycline such as doxycycline to be even more sure. If clinic facilities were unavailable to look for signs of the disease, you could stretch this to about a year - if the TB returned it would be multi-drug resistant - bad news for YOU as well as the rest of the planet. This is my personal rule-book. If anyone medically trained can refine these rules a bit I would appreciate it greatly.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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i have had no antibiotics for 25 years
most people are unaware how finite a resourse they are, the upshot is amputations and death, but we will see an end to all the body pirecing and tatoos as well as surgery...... sorry my dark humour.......
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
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Look if I had not had antibiotics when I had my double mastectomy and my pneumonia this year I would have been in big trouble.
I wish people would quit with the animal antibiotic thing and quit using antibiotics incorrectly and too much. Folks our world will not stop we are screwed. Just a fact. Unless the Aliens come down and are friendly and give us "cures" we will not be a civilization too much longer. |
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Jen147
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It blows my mind how many grown adults to this day treat antibiotics like taking TUMS or something! Drives me CRAZY! I've tried every way I know how short of ruining a friendship to get my one good friend to stop misusing antibiotics. |
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Kilt-3
Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 04 2015 Status: Offline Points: 1365 |
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I have the answer - but nobody will listen to me
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Ok Kilt I will bite what is the answer!
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Kilt-3
Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 04 2015 Status: Offline Points: 1365 |
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Phages or Bacteriophages are viruses that mutate a million times faster than bacteria and they eat bacteria so phages can be made which eat super bacteria that antibiotics no longer work on. It is so simple. Its real it works and Georgia in the former Soviet Union has been doing it for years. There is no reason to worry Phages - Google it Now if only we can get the Health Department excited about the breakthrough.
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