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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Poll - how bad will Zika virus be?

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Poll Question: What impact will Zika have?
Vote Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
0 [0.00%]
1 [4.17%]
6 [25.00%]
15 [62.50%]
2 [8.33%]

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jacksdad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Poll - how bad will Zika virus be?
    Posted: January 29 2016 at 3:29pm
What's your assessment of the growing Zika outbreak?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 3:41pm
Major pandemic yes - unless they can make a vaccine within a year.  I think societal collapse unlikely - unless the vaccine takes more than 15 years to perfect.  By then too many women would be facing the end of their reproductive period and larger numbers would start taking stupid chances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 4:08pm
This will be real nightmarish scenario when we see the destroyed families from this.   Remember, these babies are deformed AND with brain damage.  That's a double blow.   This is a really bad situation.  Sadly,  I would choose abortion before I bring a kid into the world like that.   That's just the sick reality to this thing and people should grasp the harsh reality of these choices coming up.    This one is d*mn near evil. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 4:09pm
I would like to vote, but, as usual, my wife has beaten me to the vote from this IP address.  I would go for societal collapse, at least in some areas.

If anyone reading this has the magic computer mojo please tick the last box for me (and say you have done it as I should only be entitled to a single vote like everyone else on here).








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 4:43pm
Hi Willobybrat, go ahead and try to vote again.  I enabled the feature for multiple votes.  My apologies for changing that on you JD, but I always check the box for multiple votes for this purpose. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 5:28pm
No problem, A.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 7:16pm
There will be thousands maybe a million babies born with small heads and brains. Not good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 7:44pm
If we want to get technical, they have small heads, and large faces. Like a wide oval shape face and head.  Really odd looking.  Reminds me of that movie Friday the 13th when Jason took his mask off.  Or the big guy from Texas Chainsaw massacre who wore that mask.   Damn near brain damaged mutants.   I guess have a few kids with Zika,  then have the kids on chain leashes as they get older, and feed them raw bloody meat.   Teach them how to grunt and growl.   I'm beyond terrible lol.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiger_deF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 7:57pm
The real question is, what is the rate of mycrophaly? It could be so low that people eventually stop caring
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2016 at 8:45pm
Brazil has had 4,000 microcephaly births out of 1 million infected.  If we assume half the cases were women, then it would mean 500,000 women infected.  Brazil has a pregnancy rate of around 8% I believe (not 100% sure), but that would be 40,000 pregnancies.  That means approx 10% microcephaly so far.  But those 4,000 microcephaly out of the 40,000  only goes back to October and those cases are still giving birth.  So a current 10% chance minimum, but is obviously a lot higher.   Probably 30% +.  Could be all of them. Who knows.  

If they're not malformed, have they still suffered brain damage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 3:40am
I voted "It will spread globally but cause only limited outbreaks" because I'm not sure it'll have the same affect in many other parts of the world as it has in the Americas. I suspect that their mosquito problem is far worse than ours and that will play a significant role. If we look at Malaria, that sickened 234 million people and killed 438,000 in 2015, and yet we rarely hear of cases in the West. It's clearly a huge problem in the third world having killed twice as many people last year alone as the Swine Flu pandemic - and that's after a 60% drop in cases since 2000 thanks to eradication programs. Why the difference?
My biggest worry is whether the virus can jump from Aedes aegypti to other species of biting insect. We now have Asian Tiger mosquitoes in much of the US, and as mentioned by Techno and WillobyBrat, midges (known elsewhere as no-see-ums and sand flies) are extremely prevalent in many places around the world. The impact of Zika showing up in either of those is still a big unknown and quite possibly a game changer.
The incidence of microcephaly is tragic, especially given the rise in cases and the impact on the families affected. This early in the outbreak, we're still guessing how many of the cases are caused by Zika, but it looks like the number may be downgraded considerably if a recent Washington Post article is correct. That said, it's still something to be extremely concerned about for anyone that's pregnant, and they'd be wise to take every available precaution.
In the absence of treatments and a vaccine, I do believe that we should start getting used to the idea of it being around for the foreseeable future, and plan accordingly when we're at risk of being bitten. Much like West Nile virus and Lyme disease, it's probably going to become a part of our lives, particularly when we venture into areas with greater numbers of mosquitoes. And like West Nile, while Zika can cause a wide range of severe problems like microcephaly, Guillain-Barré syndrome or paralysis, it's starting to look like most cases exhibit much milder symptoms, if any at all.
That doesn't suggest a major pandemic to me - in order to visit something as devastating as that on us requires a disease agent with a particular list of attributes, something I'm not seeing in Zika. Large numbers of victims with a high mortality rate and efficient human to human transmission are the hallmarks of one of those monsters, and I still firmly believe that only a novel influenza virus (or the release of something like Smallpox) can bring that about. This has the potential to cause a serious public health issue globally, but I don't see it causing any disruption to society.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/29/brazil-may-have-fewer-zika-related-microcephaly-cases-than-previously-reported/




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 5:21am
Thank you Albert.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 5:58am
No prob Willoby.

Great find JD.   Another thing that has me wondering a little is how they came up with the 1 mill cases in Brazil when apparently there are only select labs that are able to test for the virus.    Very few labs can test for Zika yet they have tested 1 mill samples?  Pretty safe bet that it could less than a mill and perhaps only around 1/3 as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 6:56am
I think another problem we're having with all of this, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, is that the WHO has taken so long to get involved that we still have very few answers.    That Hawaii case is a little baffling regarding the lady who gave birth to the baby with microcephaly.  They're saying it's Zika Virus, but no way to confirm, although the odds are pretty good.   If cases of microcephaly are low with Zika, then you would have to assume there are numerous undiagnosed cases in the U.S and there are 100 x more cases than what's been reported, as at the moment that 1 Hawaii case is batting 100% microcephaly with Zika.  So either microcephaly cases are extremely common with Zika, or there are numerous unreported cases in the U.S.. We also have to factor that if there are 36 cases reported, and 80% are Asymptomatic,  then there is a easily a few hundred cases here, conservatively.   Let's hope Asymptomatic cases can't spread the disease, which is not yet determined, although likely.  

Given the Hawaii case, and the suspected low microcephaly rate, there is absolutely no way Brazil has an estimated 1 million cases.   It will come out soon that that number is way overestimated.

It's a shame that the 4 U.S. pregnant women with Zika have to be studied, but the outcome of those births will give us some hard numbers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 9:26am
I'm sure there's a lot of fuzzy math and extrapolation going on when it comes to things like Zika rapidly emerging in places with poor healthcare/reporting. We'll probably know what really happened in a few years, much like the 2009 H1N1 pandemic.
I work with a Boy Scout troop, and there's no doubt in my mind that this is going to be a big deal when we hike or camp - and we already have to consider West Nile, tick-borne Lyme disease, and even plague at many campgrounds.
I wonder what new protocols will be in place for pregnant women as this spreads to new areas and becomes endemic (which I'm sure it will). This will be one of those things where we reminisce about how much easier it was before we had to worry about Zika.
Watch the Asian Tiger mosquitoes - I firmly believe that they'll be key to it's further spread if they turn out be viable vectors for Zika. And buy stock in bug repellant manufacturers...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 9:33am
Originally posted by WillobyBrat WillobyBrat wrote:

Thank you Albert.  

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You can't have discussions like this on other sites, or old timers with a million posts and grand titles will slap you down and demean you. This is why AFT rocks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 11:32am
My question is: if a woman has Zika and recovers, will she be able to carry a healthy baby or will her offspring always be affected?

If she can recover then I vote that it will spread globally and infect millions but will be an inconvenience rather than a major threat to life on earth, but if women don't recover, or men for that matter and that anyone who has ever had Zika will always carry the risk of deformed offspring - well then, I'd have to  vote for doom and gloom and the end of the human race. Perhaps we will revert back to being wild animals will no capacity for logical thought.
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 11:33am
Until we know the answer to that question, I think Zika is a pretty scary disease. They showed some babies in Brazil last night on the news here, and all I can think is how terrible for their parents. It's so sad. 
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 11:35am
The truth of the matter, KiwiMum, is that we simply do not know.  Personally, I suspect that it hangs around for a while before clearing.  The worst of my suspicions is that it lingers for widely differing time spans according to the genetics and general health of the host.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 11:43am
It is tragic - life long care and all the health problems that are likely associated with the condition
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2016 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

This will be real nightmarish scenario when we see the destroyed families from this.   Remember, these babies are deformed AND with brain damage.  That's a double blow.   This is a really bad situation.  Sadly,  I would choose abortion before I bring a kid into the world like that.   That's just the sick reality to this thing and people should grasp the harsh reality of these choices coming up.    This one is d*mn near evil. 

I agree 100%, chief!   This makes worrying if your kid has autistic spectrum disorder VERY mild by comparison.  

I think I heard that there are about 4,000 cases of infants with microcephaly in Brazil from this virus, which blows my mind.  

And, I don't see any quick/easy vaccine solution for this one, unless they deliberately infect women with the virus to give them the disease (which seems mild except for the birth defect thing).  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 31 2016 at 2:51am
German Measles (Rubella) again:  That makes sense Chuck.  But, how long does it stay in the system?  Do we even know that yet?
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