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How Dangerous is CWD?

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Newbie1A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2019 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Newbie1A Newbie1A wrote:

CRS, DrPH - I want to talk to you about this! About Johnes/Tuberculosis (Mycobacterium Avian specifically)...need input!



Here is a iMedPub Journal on Tuberculosis - IF I'm understanding it correctly - it is the 'continual' thru all forms of TSE,CWD, etc etc As a complete layman with NO medical background this is a bit over my head...(understatement) but I'm dealing with testing on farm and see test is for "tuberculosis avian" (in sheep and goats!!!)and I have a tonne of birds on property - need knowledge/clarification! Can't figure out on here how to email/message a member privately... Study is 11 pages plus 2 pgs of references - please cut/paste below to your browsers if link doesn't work. Didn't want to try to cut/paste here and it has some interesting photo's

[URL=http://http://molecular-pathological-epidemiology.imedpub.com/cwd-tuberculosis-found-in-spongiformdisease-formerly-attributed-to-prions-itsimplication-towards-mad-cow-diseasescrapie-and-alzhei.php?aid=19116[/URL]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2019 at 8:15am
I just spotted this Newbie. I must have missed it during the site problems. It is possible I am not the only one who missed it.

First let me re-publish the url:     http://molecular-pathological-epidemiology.imedpub.com/cwd-tuberculosis-found-in-spongiformdisease-formerly-attributed-to-prions-itsimplication-towards-mad-cow-diseasescrapie-and-alzhei.php?aid=19116 - Hopefully this link will work.

I have only skimmed the thesis and not read it in depth (as I should) yet, but have concluded that it is a potential alternative causitory theory of spongiform encephalopathies. As such it is "fringe" science. This is definitely "swimming against the tide" where opinions about such diseases exist. Much of the methodology of the study appears to be based upon visual similarities and there should be more varied techniques employed.

So, I don't think that TB is the cause of BSE or its disease family. The geographically generative similarities may just be a conicidence, or both may spring from the same source of bad farming practices. But I can't be sure. 999/1000 fringe theories are mad, stupid or just plain wrong. The other 1/1000 is pure genius. I will study this in more depth and get back to you. (Assuming our Chuck, who knows far more than I, does not beat me to it.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2019 at 8:21am
Misinformation widespread about chronic wasting disease in deer management

Today 5:00 AM

By Marcus Schneck | mschneck@pennlive.com

Chronic wasting disease – also known as zombie deer disease – is a contagious, always-fatal disease that infects deer, elk and other cervid species.

First recognized in 1967 in Colorado, CWD was first discovered in Pennsylvania in 2012, on a captive deer farm in Adams County.

That discovery led to the creation of Pennsylvania’s first deer management area, DMA 1, which has since been eliminated.

Subsequent discoveries of CWD led to the creation of 3 more DMAs: DMA 2, following the detection of the disease in multiple free-ranging deer in Bedford, Blair, Cambria and Fulton counties in 2012, and captive farm deer in Bedford, Franklin and Fulton counties in 2017; DMA 3, following detection in 2 captive deer farms in Jefferson County in 2014 and a free-ranging deer in Clearfield County in 2017; and DMA 4, following detection in a captive deer at a farm in Lancaster County in 2018.

Through 2018, 250 free-ranging CWD-positive deer have been detected within the state – 246 of them within DMA 2 in southcentral Pennsylvania.



More chronic wasting disease

‘Zombie deer disease,’ a.k.a. chronic wasting disease, heats up in Pennsylvania

As more deer in Pennsylvania are found with chronic wasting disease, pilot projects are launched against the disease and old conflicts re-emerge.

It's unlawful to feed deer within DMAs. Hunters are prohibited from transporting high-risk parts (generally the head and backbone) from deer they harvest within a DMA to points outside a DMA. And the use or field possession of urine-based deer attractants also is prohibited within DMAs.

The creation of the DMAs, along with a Pennsylvania Game Commission deer-reduction plan announced for a 100-square-mile area of Bedford and Blair counties and withdrawn in the face of hunter and legislator opposition within a 2-week period earlier this year, led to the misconception that large areas of the state have been closed to deer hunting.

That is not true.

Part of the commission’s guidelines for hunters killing deer in the DMAs – “Have your animal tested and do not consume meat from any animal that tests positive for the disease.” – has led to the misconception that hunters are required to have all deer checked by the commission.

Although mandatory sampling is an option under a new Chronic Wasting Disease Response Plan proposed by the commission, testing is not currently required.

However, warnings about eating venison from deer with CWD have grown more dire as more instances of the disease have been discovered in more states and Canadian provinces.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that people do not eat meat from animals that test positive for CWD.

On its website, the CDC notes, “To date, there have been no reported cases of CWD infection in people. However, some animal studies suggest CWD poses a risk to certain types of non-human primates, like monkeys, that eat meat from CWD-infected animals or come in contact with brain or body fluids from infected deer or elk. These studies raise concerns that there may also be a risk to people. Since 1997, the World Health Organization has recommended that it is important to keep the agents of all known prion diseases from entering the human food chain.”

And the Game Commission offers free testing for any deer harvested in a DMA. A hunter wanting that testing places the head of his deer, with harvest tag completed legibly and attached to the head, in a plastic garbage bag; seals the bag; and drops into one of the commission’s CWD collection containers throughout the DMA.

DEER-DISEASE

Pennsylvania Game Commission develops new Chronic Wasting Disease Response Plan

In an effort to contain the disease that is always fatal to deer, elk and other cervid species, the Pennsylvania Game Commission is seeking public comment on a new, more directed plan.

Confusion also has arisen among some hunters over the true cause of CWD in deer.

Most wildlife agencies and researchers believe prions are the cause, and for decades have been trying to understand prions and deal with their impact on deer and other animals.

But Frank Bastian, clinical professor of neurosurgery and pathology and professor of veterinary science at Louisiana State University, has been researching a bacteria known as spiroplasma as the cause of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies such as CWD.

In February, Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, which has opposed the deer management program of the Game Commission for at least the past 20 years, held a press conference to call attention to Bastian’s take on the disease and to announce a fund-raising effort to accelerate his alternative research approach to defeating CWD.

John Eveland, a wildlife biologist often cited by USP, said, “within possibly a year,” the USP-supported project with Bastian will produce a diagnostic kit for hunters to use in the field to determine if deer they harvest have CWD. After 2 years, Eveland said, the work will produce an injectable vaccine primarily for captive deer and elk. And, in the third year, he projected there will be an oral or nasal vaccine for wild deer and elk.

Pete Kingsley, USP treasurer, noted, “The state game commissions across the nation have been trying to stop the disease by shooting the deer for the past 50 years plus and it has not been working, and it never will.”

The National Deer Alliance, a coalition of national organizations supporting hunter-focused conservation of deer across the U.S., was quick to respond to the USP announcement. The alliance issued a statement from Krysten Schuler, a wildlife disease ecologist and co-director of the Cornell Wildlife Health Lab, who also serves on the NDA board of directors:

“There is international agreement among scientific agencies, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that prions are believed to be the infectious agent that causes TSEs. Viruses and bacteria are not supported as potential causes of TSEs for a number of reasons, which include lack of an immune response, resistance to normal disinfection procedures, environmental persistence for years to decades, and intensive genetic study.”

The Game Commission and Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture also responded to the USP announcement, explaining that the 2 agencies “would like to make clear that decades of research have provided abundant evidence that prions, or misfolded proteins, are the infectious agent of CWD, and this hypothesis is accepted by state agriculture and wildlife agencies across the U.S. While alternative theories exist, they have not been thoroughly researched.”
CWD remote sampling station

Wildlife diseases in Pennsylvania targeted by $10 million Game Commission-Penn partnership

The Pennsylvania Game Commission and the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine team in multi-year, $10 million attack on chronic wasting disease, white-nose syndrome, West Nile virus and other wildlife diseases in Pennsylvania.

Do you have something in the ongoing CWD situation that puzzles you? Something you would like to have explained? A question about CWD and deer management in the age of CWD? If you do, send your questions to Marcus Schneck at mschneck@pennlive.com.

Thanks for visiting PennLive. Quality local journalism has never been more important. We need your support. Not a subscriber yet? Please consider supporting our work.


Source:    https://www.pennlive.com/life/2019/11/misinformation-widespread-about-chronic-wasting-disease-in-deer-management.html


[Techno:   Newbie, I highlighted a bit of this which may help you get your answers. No promises, but it is worth a try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2019 at 5:17pm
Hi again Newbie:

Well, I have read the paper (I am sorry it took me so long. I had to look up several things as histology is not my field and the author does love his jargon.) and have the following thoughts, none of which are conclusive but the best I can do:

A red alert as to the viability of this study is the quotation of studies from 1967 when it was not even known that viruses had DNA/RNA. Science has moved on a bit since then.

BSE and CJD can be transmitted through blood. Blood is screened for bacteria and viruses, usually by looking for their antibodies. This is easier than searching for small things like viruses. However I have found no specific screening of blood for TB. TB blood screening seems to concentrate on the donor rather than donated products. So the author could have a point there. When however, people present with strange symptoms, doctors employ a huge battery of tests to find the cause. I find it difficult to believe that, if present, all of them would miss TB in every BSE or CJD case. TB is fairly common and "Great Pretender" that it is is commonly tested for in inexplicable cases. Prion disease is far rarer and would be further down the list of exploratory tests. Prion disease is also passed on surgical instruments which are autoclaved. That is way too hot for mycobacteria to survive. Only prions could do that (and a few thermophiles which are not disease causing).

An alternative theory is “Prion disease pre-disposes to co-infection with tuburcular micobacteria”. Contrary to popular belief, tuburculosis is hard to develop. It usually takes a drop in effectiveness of the immune system for it to manifest. In the days before antibiotics, the rich sufferers of the disease took a long holiday somewhere sunny, (vitamin D boosts immune function) and about a third recovered. For the poor, who were more malnourished and who did not have that option, death was certain. Amiloidosis could well be also caused by mycobateria in some cases, but more likely, it is simply exaccerbated/accelerated by it. Here is a thought: What if the first protein ever misfolded was produced by some infective agent (like TB) and then became infective itself?

Lasmézas’s 1997 interspecies transmission of mad cow is not as flawed as suggested. Current theories suggest that contagion of prion disease is only half of the story, there is also a genetic succeptability factor in developing the disease, this explains the mice who did not sicken.

In conclusion, I can't say the paper is wrong, but it is, to my mind, unproven and may stem from less than adequate science.
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