Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
lets talk scary worst case reality |
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figure'n it out
Experienced Member Joined: May 12 2006 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Posted: May 12 2006 at 11:34pm |
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Hemorrahagic Pneumonia, How do we prepare for this?
I am new to the forum and just want to thank all of you... I am being realistic here, not negative.In all of our preparedness activities, what are some of your ideas as to how we should handle some of the worst complications that come from avian influenza? With out doctors or hospitals or antibiotics what can we do, so as to not let pneumonia set in? Any homeopathic remedies to thwart pneumonia? This is serious to me as I have a family, all high risk, due to immune compromised systems, asthma etc... even on all their medications my children still got pneumonia this year... I really don't want to see my children or have my children see me bleeding from my mouth and death soon there after... we as a group need to try and collaborate as to how to fight this w/ out the medical community being available. HELP! Just this week local hospitals wher I am located have implemented decontamination chambers that can decontaminate four people at a time...I live in a small area! The paper said that should we contract the virus that we would be asked to stay home... Not Good...No antibiotics... I am wondering besides garlic what is a natural antibiotic and perhaps some serious old remedies if any from 1918 era...I am investigating too?! |
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ozjohn
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 27 2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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"what are some of your ideas as to how we should handle some of the worst complications that come from avian influenza? With out doctors or hospitals or antibiotics what can we do, so as to not let pneumonia set in? " Could I suggest that you read all of the info on this Forum and I guess you will arrive at the same conclusion that we have.
That is that if the SHTF we are on our OWN!!!
Forget what the people in charge can do or can't do, PREPARE yourself and your family. Lay in ALL the supplies you need and hide them well and DON'T tell anyone that you are doing so. Do it quietly a bit every time you go to the supermarket and do you planning for TOTAL quarantine for at least 100 days. That is what I am doing.
No guarantees with all that, but it WILL increase the chances of survival for you and your loved ones.
Good luck!
OJ
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Scout motto - "Be Prepared"
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oknut
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 847 |
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There is a lot of information on the forum related to homeopathic medicine and alternative treatments.
Some of the things I've read about here include oil of oregano, cider vinegar, Manuka honey, colloidal silver, lauricidin, sambucol and many others. You really just need to read and make your own decisions. Many of us have either convinced our doctors to give us prescriptions for antibiotics or purchased them online without a prescription, just to have on hand. Each family concerned is having to find things the best way they can. We've spent what we could on anti-viral and antibiotic meds as well as stocking many old fashioned and alternative remedies. I've also stocked up on ibuprofen, nyquil, chest rub, benedryl, mucinex and other OTC meds. You can use the search feature to help locate some of the older threads that focused on alternative meds. Welcome! |
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FigurinItout - I would read the threads on pneumonia vaccine if I were you. There are a couple of them. We (in UK) had to pay for ours privately, because we weren't in any of the "at risk" groups, but it sounds as if your children may be if they are immunocompromised. Same kinds of rules apply in the US I think. We paid £25 at one clinic and £45 for another family member at another clinic. In Holland its 35 Euros. Not that much considering that it will protect you from the commonest forms of secondary pneumonia. Not from the viral pneumonia caused by H5N1 itself though.
As for homeopathic remedies, thats not my scene but I'm sure you will find others on this site who can advise you if you're into homeopathy. Welcome and good luck. Beth
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Hello figuren it out:
I to have 4 of us in my family with Asthma...I went to my doctor and insisted we all get the pneumonia shot...My doctor has always insist I get this shot every year...
I'm sure you have a nebulizer with your family being asmatic...I'm stocking up on alburterol 0.083 vials..you know the medication that goes in the nebulizer...Also the alburteral inhaler......
I told my doctor that the allergies are kicking up our asthma...He gave me 5 refills and I'm filling them every month...You also should be on singular...It works the best at everyday control....
I also go musinex nyguil.....Cool air humitifiers...and vapor rub for the chest and the liquid vapor is great in the warm air humidifiers which are 10.00 at wal-mart...
The one thing that saved my parents from getting up every singe night with my sister and myself was an aircondisher...We slept through the night for the first time when my father took every cent he had to buy one..
Now if the power goes off...make sure you have a generator even if it's a small one that will run a 5000 btu aircondishtioner...It filters the air and it easier to breath cool air...
If it's winter and you live in a cold climate it is a myth to take a child to breath cold air...I closes the airway...I'm talking about 30 degree weather...I'm sure you know this already but talk to your doctor about this...prehaps they'll give you a prescription just in case...
Good luck...
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May
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I was also thinking about complications... It's been posted on the board, that one of the presenting signs of this H5N1 (current varient?) is diarrhea. CDC says it happens about 7 days prior to other symptoms. Not a type you may be used to, water. Have we thought how to care for this. I am working on a piece for home care, sick room supplies, that I will post soon. Someone wanted to know how to make a bed with someone in it, in there also.
I found the symptoms a while back in CDC for H5N1 in humans. I was sure
I bookmarked it, but can't find the link now. What I had to do was find the medical code and then put that code in on a particular area on CDC.
Has anyone else had any luck with that?
It was a file and I hand wrote a portion of it, it was very detailed, graphic.
I found some of it on other sites but not like what the CDC offered, very specific and I will post it.
sorry post this is rather long but perhaps you may find something helpful.
I am not a Doctor, so I can't recommend Oregano oil. But I have used it several times, with good results. I would suggest that you confer with your Doctor on how safe it is for you personally, to use it in an extreme situation where nothing else may be available...put that way, your Doctor may well discuss it's use.
Oregano Oil: Nature's Super Germ Fighter
James South, M.A
With the advent of widespread antibiotic usage in the late 1940s, doctors began to vanquish the bacterial germ diseases that had ravaged mankind since ancient times. By the 1960s such ancient enemies as diphtheria, scarlet fever, syphilis, bubonic plague and tuberculosis were easily treatable with modern antibiotics.
Yet by the 1990s, antibiotics were no longer hailed as the miracle they had seemed just 40 years earlier. By the 1990s many bacteria had developed a resistance to most antibiotics. Widespread overuse of antibiotics also seemed to promote a new plague: the development of fungal infections especially Candida albicans in the young, the elderly and the immunocompromised.1-3
Ironically, research beginning in the 1950s (the golden years of antibiotic usage)4 continuing to the present day, has provided a remedy for both bacterial antibiotic resistance and fungal infestation: oregano oil. Oregano oil is produced by distillation from the leaves and flowers of wild Mediterranean oregano (Origanum Vulgare).
1 Oregano oil is rich in phenolic compounds, including carvacrol and thymol, 6,7 which have been shown to be powerfully germicidal against a wide range of bacteria, fungi and protozoal parasites, even at minute concentrations of the oil.3-11
Although modern science has verified the broad-spectrum antimicrobial activity of oregano oil, oregano has been used for medicine and food preservation for thousands of years. According to oregano expert Dr. Cass Ingram, ancient Greek physicians routinely used oregano to treat a myriad of conditions, including open wounds, lung disorders, venomous bites and narcotic poisoning.
When Islamic civilization flourished in the Middle Ages, its doctors used oregano and its oil to treat germ diseases. Powdered wild oregano was then used as a food preservative, keeping unrefrigerated vegetables unspoiled for up to two weeks. Medieval Europeans used wild oregano to prevent milk spoilage. In the 1600s British herbalist Gerard promoted oregano as the ideal treatment for head colds.1
A large number of in vitro, or test tube studies, have shown oregano oil, or its most active constituents carvacrol and thymol, to kill a broad range of bacteria and fungi. Conner and Beuchat tested 32 plant oils against 13 food-spoilage and industrial yeasts by the agar diffusion method. Growing yeasts were spread on special plates onto the center of which small (6 mm) discs dipped in one percent or 10 percent essential oil were placed.
The zone of inhibition, wherein no yeasts grew, was measured after four days. Out of 32 oils, only garlic oil had a larger average zone of inhibition than oregano oil, and oregano had a larger zone of inhibition than garlic oil for four of 13 yeasts tested.4
Hammer and colleagues investigated 52 plant oils for activity against nine bacteria and the yeast Candida using the agar diffusion method. Oregano oil was one of only three oils that inhibited the growth of Pseudomonas aeruginosa, a hard-to-kill bacterium that causes human wound infections. Overall, oregano oil was better at inhibiting germ growth than all oils tested except lemon grass oil. Oregano oil was effective at concentrations as low as 0.12 percent.5
Tantaoui-Elaraki and Beraoud tested 13 essential oils against the common food contaminant mold Aspergillus parasiticus. Oregano oil was one of four oils that could completely stop mold growth at concentrations as low as 0.1 percent. The production of aflatoxins, incredibly potent toxins produced by many Aspergillus species, was also measured. Oregano oil was one of three oils that could inhibit aflatoxin production more than 90 percent at an oil concentration of only 0.01 percent, and one of six oils that could completely inhibit aflatoxin production at 0.1 percent.6
Baratta and coworkers tested sage, rosemary, oregano, laurel and coriander oils against 25 bacteria. They noted that oregano oil manifested the broadest and highest activity against almost all of the bacteria tested; in fact it strongly inhibited 19 of the 25 bacterial strains under investigation, showed a good activity against four bacteria and proved to be ineffective against the growth of [two]. 7 They also found coriander and oregano oil to have the highest activity against the fungus Aspergillus niger.
The zones of inhibition (ZI) were typically much greater for oregano oil than the other four. Thus the ZI for oregano oil against Salmonella bacteria was 46.8 mm, compared to 7.6-12.6 mm for the other four oils; 29.8 mm against Yersinia vs. 6.8-12.3 mm for the other four oils; 31.1 mm against Citrobacter vs. 9.7-13 mm for the other four, etc. Only two oils killed Pseudomonas aeruginosa: rosemary (ZI=8.6 mm) and oregano (ZI=12.0 mm).7
Stiles and colleagues used both agar diffusion and the serial broth dilution techniques to measure oregano oil s activity against Candida albicans, the cause of the yeast syndrome. Oregano oil was compared to Nystatin and Ca/Mg caprylate, two common Candida treatments. At a concentration of just 0.91 mcg/ml (about 1 part/million), oregano oil had the same ZI as Nystatin: 22-25 mm. At 1.82 mcg/ml (about 2 parts/million), oregano oil had a ZI of 40-45 mm.
Using the broth dilution technique to measure the quantity needed to kill 99.9 percent of the Candida, it took 45 mcg/ml of oregano oil, but 5,000 mcg/ml of the Ca/Mg caprylate.8
Manohar and coworkers tested oregano oil against Candida both in vitro and in vivo. Using the broth dilution technique, it took just 0.25 mg/ml (about 250 parts/million) to completely kill Candida, and 0.125 mg/ml to prevent the germ tube formation and mycelial filament elongation necessary to cause Candida tissue invasion.
Groups of six mice were injected with 12.5 million live Candida cells. All of the control group, which received no antimicrobial, was dead within ten days. Six groups of mice were force-fed oregano oil dissolved in olive oil at a dose from 8.66 to 52 mg/kg of bodyweight. Five of six survived 30 days (when the experiment was terminated) with 8.66 mg/kg, while all of the other groups survived 30 days.3
Force and colleagues gave 600 mg emulsified oregano oil for six weeks to 13 adults who had tested positive for intestinal parasites (Entamoeba, Endolinax, or Blastocystis). Parasites could no longer be detected in 10 of the 13 after the treatment. The parasite score (parasites counted under a microscope) decreased for the other three.
Seven of the eight who had originally tested positive for Blastocystis hominis reported significant improvement of their symptoms, such as bloating, GI cramping, alternating diarrhea and constipation, and fatigue.9 Oregano is GRAS (generally regarded as safe), but the oil should be used with caution, as it can be irritating to the mucous membranes. It should be taken with food, partway through a meal, not on an empty stomach.
Oregano oil may trigger the die-off phenomenon in those suffering intestinal candidiasis or other intestinal microbial infestation due to its powerful germ-killing action. See reference for more detail on the die-off.
In an age when food poisoning sickens or kills many thousands annually, oil of oregano taken with meals may be the best preventative.
Highly recommended trusted source of supplements. How did we qualify VRP?
Binaural Beat Brainwave Entrainment Audio - meditation, altered states, relaxation, improved learning and memory, relaxation, anti-stress, lucid dreaming, improved sleep, hemispheric coherence and increased corpus callosum communication.
References: 1. Ingram, C. The Cure is in the Cupboard. Buffalo Grove, IL:Knowledge House, 2001. 2. Crook, W. The Yeast Connection and Women s Health. Jackson, TN: Professional Books, 2003.
3. Manohar, V. et al. Antifungal activities of origanum oil against Candida albicans. Mol Cell Biochem, 2001, 228: 111-17.
4. Maruzzella, J. & Lichtenstein, M. The in vitro antibacterial activity of essential oils. J Am Pharm Assoc, 1956, 47: 250 ff.
5. Hammer, K. et al. Antimicrobial activity of essential oils and other plant extracts . J Appl Microbial, 1999, 86:985-90.
6.Tantatoui-Elaraki, A and Beraoud, L. Inhibition of growth and aflatoxin production in Aspergillus parasiticus by essential oils of selected plant materials. J Environ Path Toxicol Oncol, 1994, 13: 67-72.
7. Baratta, M.T. et al. Chemical composition, antimicrobial and antioxidative activity of laurel, sage rosemary, oregano and coriander essential oils. J Essent Oil Res, 1998, 10:618-27.
8. Stiles, J. et al. The inhibition of Candida albicans by oregano . J Appl Nutr, 1995, 47:96-102.
9. Force, M. et al. Inhibition of enteric parasites by emulsified oil of oregano in vivo . Phytother Res, 2000, 14:213-14.
10. Knobloch, K. et al. Antibacterial and antifungal properties of essential oil components. J Essent Oil Res, 1989, 1:119-28.
11. Conner, D. & Beuchat, L. Effects of essential oils from plants on growth of food spoilage yeasts. J Food Sci, 1984, 49:429-34.
............................................................................
http://oregoil.com/gpage2.html oil of oregano- oreganum vulgare
Carvacrol, or cymophenol
................................................................................ carvacrol
Natural Occurrence:
Bergamot Plant Wild
Calamus Camphor Oil Cranberry Cumin Seed Lemon Balm Lovage Marjoram Mint Myrtle Origanum Pennyroyal Pepper Savory Tea Thymbra Spicata ................................................................................. Jonathan Campbell, Health Consultant
A Natural Therapy for self-protection and treating Avian Influenza
(Updated 11/07/2005) ..................................................................................
http://www.paulboizot.co.uk/oils/oregano.htm
..................................................................................... My MD is an Osteopath, I thought this site was interesting...
scroll down to - INFLUENZA (LAGRIPPE - EPIDEMIC CATARRHAL FEVER)
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janetn
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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First H5N1 is a virus, antibiotics are not effective for a virus. The only use in a pandemic wouild be for a secondary infection.
The best thing you can do to protect your children is isolate them and yourself at home. No exposer = no disease. This virus is very nasty a large number [over 50% ] of children who get this virus die with hospital treatment.
Any home treatment is going to be comfort only homopathic remidies are not going to change the outcome Im afraid - frankly the best medicine can offer is pretty useless.
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May
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yes, that's true many died of the secondary infections...so it's important to have something about the house for those. Antibiotics... can we get our doctors to give them out? As we read here on the board many people will feel the need to work to have a paycheck coming in. And don't have the luxury of isolation. Those are people I think about a lot.
As far as Homeopathy.. the Homeopaths had pretty good results with patients. the percentages are out there. I guess I will get some Homeopathic remedies just in case.
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janetn
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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my point is that this virus is so bad that anything you do to treat it is really spitting in the wind. Your best course of action is to make sure the person is as comfortable as possible and keep them hydrated. Secondary infections are not going to be much of an issue IMO your going to die well before a secondary infection will get you. If you do survive the best treatment for a secondary bacterial pneumonia is to cough deep breath and get the person up and moving - this prevents pneumonia. Wasnt it Ben Franklin said an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
As far as some one working because they need the paycheck my opinion is that if your dead your not gonna have a paycheck anyway. Plus you risk infecting your children, Nothing I posses is worth dying for or risking my children dying for. Thinking outside of the box for creative solutions might be a better idea. What about moving in with family -riding this out together pool available resources. Two families running one house expences is better than being separate and paying double rent and utilities.
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May
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pugmom
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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Read posts by Frisky (an MD who posts on this forum) and has listed needed meds and potential complications. To find old posts: go to top right, hit search, type in frisky under username, hit search. All the old posts will come up. Do the same thing for Dr. Grattan Woodson, and you will find an incredible article he wrote to keep people alive that have influenza. Hope this helps--let us all know. Don't be overwhelmed--we were all in the same boat at one point or another. Just let it spur you on to action. Good luck.
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jpc
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figure'n it out
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Thank you! I also wanted to let you and everyone else know that ephedrine will definately come in handy for many reasons if you are able to get your hands on some... my state will only let you buy two packets of 6 tablets at a time. It is and expectorant and a broncolator... very important if asthma meds are no where to be found ( electric is off and inhalers run out-we will probably be double dosing the kids and ourselves with the inhalers to get even a little oxygen after the steroids are gone- we may run out) ( people who don't normally have asthma may end up with it, etc)
Also get battery operated nebs... I have only one so far...it does have to be charged, but we could save it for last.
Any way the ephedrine really does work,,, I have used it before when nothing else was avaiable to me out of desperation,,, thank God I have the experience,,,
I suggest that the adults of children get some and try it so that you know what it does to you... I do not recommend using more than one tablet in a 4 hour period for adults or you will get the side effects like speed... it does increase your heart rate...if you have never used it try a quarter of a tab to not more than a half of a tablet... you can breathe alot easier, you have energy enough say so that you could manage feeding yourself and your family if you do have the flu ( so you don't die of starvation because you are weak) - I have to stay awake in the event that my children get fevers - seizures- and I read recently in a very old medical book that should your heart begin to fill up with blood as is what can happen with serious complications you would need a stimulant to get you left ventricle of your heart pumping mor efficently so as to get the pooled blood pumped out...
Please don't give an older child more than a quarter of a tab- this is worse case scenario people---
scary stuff... I apologize if its digging into some of the things that are hard to talk about!
I appreciate all the advice and suggestions from everyone...God's will! His will is our will because he loves us so much... and I pray that His will is that all of you and your's will get through this,,, In the name of Jesus .... Amen!
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figure'n it out
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Thank you pugmom! I appreciate your help! I will let you know... Please keep a watch for some info I have to share from studing in older books... I'm not ready yet to post but will try to ASAP!!! Thank you Thank you!!!!
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figure'n it out
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BRAIN STORMING TODAY-SORRY!!!
EVERYONE!!!! New idea? I watched the video section of the forum today... please do it if you haven't... "PREPARED AND PROTECTED"
I have some clear tote bags from a dollar store,,, I am putting together INFECTION CONTROL KITS FOR THE CARS AND HOME FOR EACH FAMILY MEMBER YOUNG AND OLD... WHEN IT HITS YOU'LL HAVE PROTECTIVE GEAR TO GET YOU HOME ETC. THAN ISOLATE!?
Do fire drills but have infection control drills with your significant others and children ( extended family members not on the forum need to know)... It makes me feel like we do have some control beyond stocking up on supplies... what do you think? Any thing to add? We can do it!!!
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2ifbyC
Adviser Group Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Are you kidding? This is THE place to discuss such matters. Where else can we go to accumilate so much relative info?
Thanks!
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Survival does have an 'I'!
Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast |
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Thanks Janetn and May. I agree. But I fear what May said might apply to my children and they might not suss in time that you have to break this mould or die. That they will get it, but too late to reach safety. Beth.
"As far as some one working because they need the paycheck my opinion is that if your dead your not gonna have a paycheck anyway. Plus you risk infecting your children, Nothing I posses is worth dying for or risking my children dying for. Thinking outside of the box for creative solutions might be a better idea. "
"True about the paycheck thing... we are so programed to show up for work"
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Scotty
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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By definition, most people are normal. By implication, normality is defined by the herd. By reasoning, most people will work until most people don't, by which time it will probably be far too late.
Parents wishing to protect their adult children face will need to provide some sort of quarantine system for the latecomers or risk the entire family. The alternative is the ultimate horror of having to balance the life of one child against the life of another. This is a decision that no parent should need to face. |
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May
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Well put Scotty... We have to be firm with the young adults in our families about isolation. What a hard thing to do, but staying alive and well is best. "...system for the latecomers ..." can you elaborate? I heard about
negative pressure room? Is that...putting a fan in the window (facing the out of doors) of the latecomers room? Or is it something more complicated?
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Scotty
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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The negative pressure theory requires a supply of sterile air equal to the air that you extract. It is, for most people, technically impossible to sustain. I face the possibility that my two adult children will descend upon me needing food, shelter and whatever else. I will not allow them into the house until they have quarantined in the garage for at least twenty one days. I will supply them with food, water and whatever else they need to survive but they will need to face three weeks of misery before I allow them in.
This will distress me greatly but it is what I will do. Not everyone is able to do this and I know of at least one member who is facing what appears to be a reckless gamble with no alternative in sight. I don't like dwelling too much on the horror movie aspect of this pandemic and I'm hoping that it is not as bad as we anticipate. |
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May
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Good Idea... no dwelling. I read Barry's book and after a lot of tea, I'm recovering.
I'm hoping "it" will weaken from the sheer enormity of the world's populace by the time it reaches us, one plus for our size since 1918.
I would do the same... but the 500 miles may keep them from joining us.
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Scotty Two children, one garage. What if they catch it from each other?
I'm thinking in terms of keeping latecomers in separate rooms. Not letting them into the landings etc. Hanging sheets over the doorways as well as closing doors. Not everyone will be late.
I have one room which has an extractor fan, blowing the air outside. Its obviously not a negative pressure room, but the air would be drawn from inside the house, (possibly with other windows open). So I would hope much of the infected air would be sucked out. Do you think this would work? If so it would be relatively easy to fist similar fans in other rooms.
Beth
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2ifbyC
Adviser Group Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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beth,
Your suggestion is what Ill be implementing. We have a split design home. The east side has two bedrooms and a bath. All three rooms will have an exhaust fan aimed out the windows. The hallway from the living room will be our 'barrier' if needed.
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Survival does have an 'I'!
Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast |
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This was in the news yesterday:
Unfortunately, the article doesn't give more specifics.
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Scotty
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Good luck
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You will have to read a lot or ask medical friends a lot. Some of the tips here are unrealistic or more panicky than needed. If you can get a couple months (at least) supply of your usual meds, and a longer stock of food and water and rehydration meds and other common medicines like for colds, there is a decent chance that when pandemic hit your community, you could get your family inside before they were exposed, and last out the first wave of the pandemic.
Ask your pediatrician about pneumococcal vaccine, It only protects against some bacterial pneumonias, not any viral pneumonias, but that is better than none. Some kids are routinely given this. Kids did not die in grat numbers during the 1918 pandemic, of course your kids are not as healthy as most, and who knows what this next pandemic will be like.
Be careful about mixing western medicine and herbal or other "natural" substances. It is possible to have side effects, so find out what you can about new things you think you might use. There are resources for looking up what herbals etc. can be used without harm with medicines. At least one source says don't give ephedra to children http://www.supplementquality.com/news/ABC_ephedra_monograph.html
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Chrystle
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Chrystle
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Chrystle, I think this is the booklet by Dr. Woodson you're looking for: |
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Chrystle
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Chrystle
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DAX COM
Valued Member Joined: April 02 2006 Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Edited by DAX COM - May 21 2006 at 8:13pm |
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