Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > Latest News
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Mad Cow Disease
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Mad Cow Disease

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mad Cow Disease
    Posted: June 05 2014 at 5:19am

By Andrea Stone

for National Geographic

Published June 4, 2014

Scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have confirmed the fourth death in the United States from a rare, fatal brain disorder linked to eating meat from cows with bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), also known as mad cow disease.

The latest case renewed questions from some advocates about the safety of the food supply.

The case involves a patient in Texas who died in May. Lab tests from an autopsy confirmed the patient had variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD), a deadly disorder first reported in 1996 in the United Kingdom that has killed more than 220 people and prompted the slaughter of millions of cattle. Victims of the degenerative disease, which attacks the nervous system, suffer from depression and dementia before they die.

The CDC said the victim had traveled extensively in Europe and the Middle East and that "supports the likelihood that infection occurred outside the United States." All three previous U.S. deaths were linked to an infection acquired elsewhere—two in the U.K. and one in Saudi Arabia.

"There is no evidence to suggest that other people in the United States have been exposed to variant CJD because of this patient," said CDC spokeswoman Christine Pearson.

Carrie Williams of the Texas State Department of Health Services agreed. "Travel history suggests overseas exposure," she said. The department's website states, "There are no Texas public health concerns or threats associated with this case."

Kathy Simmons, chief veterinarian for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, an industry group, also cited the infection's likely overseas origins. "There have been no documented cases of vCJD associated directly with beef consumption in the United States," she said in a statement.

She noted that the World Organization for Animal Health last year changed the U.S. status for BSE to negligible, the lowest possible risk, citing safeguards that include an FDA ban on mammalian-derived proteins in livestock feed and random testing of cattle.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture tests the brains of 40,000 dead animals, or less than 0.1 percent of all U.S. cattle, for BSE each year. That's down 90 percent since 2005, when the department announced a limited-time surge to sample high-risk cattle.

Variant CJD is a newer form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, which is not linked to BSE. About 300 cases of CJD are reported each year in the U.S. The median age of those it kills is 68 versus younger than 30 for those infected with vCJD.

Michael Hansen, senior staff scientist at Consumers Union, said the international organization's rating is problematic because it's "based on self-reporting in the U.S. that's not based on anything that's real scientific." He said he is not convinced that government agencies are doing enough to protect the public from tainted food.

The consumer advocate reiterated concerns the group raised in 2012—after the last U.S. case of mad cow disease made headlines—that "safeguards against BSE are not adequate and FDA should take additional steps to protect the health of animals and of the beef-eating public."

BSE was found in a dairy cow during a routine inspection in April 2012 at a rendering plant in California's Central Valley. The cow, which exhibited signs of BSE such as aggression and unsteadiness, never got into the food chain.

Hansen said "huge loopholes" remain in the FDA's feed ban.

"You can take all the blood you want from cows and feed them back to cows because blood and blood products are exempted. So is chicken litter," he said, noting that the nation's largest restaurant buyer of beef, McDonald's, has for years urged that poultry feces be banned from cattle feed.

Source:   http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140604-world-mad-cow-disease-health-death#  - apologies for a lack of hyperlink, my internet connection is on the blink and I seem to have lost the ability.  I can't preview either so if this is gibberish, I apologise

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2014 at 8:44am
I love the double standard over this. On the one hand, it's not a problem and nobody should worry about a little thing like BSE, but try donating blood or blood products in the States after they find out you've spent time in the UK and see how reassured they are. We couldn't even donate my son's cord blood because we'd both lived in Britain over a decade earlier. The authorities know that the prions that cause the disease can lurk for a long time in a host, and not necessarily just in the spine and brain as was once assumed. Nasty little buggers Dead
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Utwig View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 2210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Utwig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2014 at 3:19pm
There is no mad cow in the UK. Don't look at me, I'm a squirrel.

Utwig.
Remember to get your whole head in front of the shotgun!
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2014 at 3:27pm
Yeah, us ducks are imune to it too.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Utwig View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 2210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Utwig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2014 at 3:30pm
Grins.

Utwig.
Remember to get your whole head in front of the shotgun!
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Chief Moderator
Chief Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 29670
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2014 at 4:55pm
I was also in the UK for part of that time and can't give blood here in NZ. Those prions  are nasty little buggers. They survive the autoclave system and apparently one of the biggest risks of contamination is at the dentists. They simply can't clean the prions from the tools. 

If you have been exposed to CJD then it lives in your system for years some times before the symptoms show. It's estimated there could be thousands or hundreds of thousands of people with it, yet to develop symptoms. There is no point in testing them because there is no known cure.

This is what happens if you feed chopped up cows, pigs and chickens to cows as their protein source. It's hardly surprising. I feed my cows grass and hay with a little bit of molasses. No soy, no grains and no animal proteins. 
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
nc_girl View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 19 2006
Location: NC
Status: Offline
Points: 3968
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nc_girl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 11:08am
someone should have known better about eating brains because of a little bitty disease in South America called 'Kuru'.  That alone should have given them cause to stop and think that 'hey, this might be a bad idea!'.

Idiots! 
Back to Top
Johnray1 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 11:30am
nc_girl,do you or any one else know if Madcow disease has any connection with the "Chronic Wasting Disease" That is being seen in the ELK and Mule Deer population that is going on now in the western States.This Chronic Wasting Disease in the ELK and MULE DEER has actually been around a few years now. There seem to be an effort to keep it quiet because Big Hunting  is a big business in the western states. This disease sounds so much like Madcow disease that I have quit hunting and eating Elk. Johnray1
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 12:10pm
Johnray1 - BSE came from the recycling of sheep carcasses into cattle feed. In sheep it was a prion disease called scrapie.
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 2:01pm
Yes, Johnray.
Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a transmissible neurological disease of deer and elk that produces small lesions in brains of infected animals. It is characterized by loss of body condition, behavioral abnormalities and death. CWD is classified as a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE), and is similar to mad cow disease in cattle and scrapie in sheep.

Source:   http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.main

The "powers that be" say there is no evidence that it is transmissable to humans, but that is what our health people originally said about BSE (bovine spongiform encephalitis or mad cow disease).  Our health minister even encouraged his daughter to eat burgers in front of the press to "prove" our beef was safe.  I think you are right to lay off of the venison, at least for now.  I would require proof it was safe first, not lack of proof it was dangerous.  

Like my signature says.........
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

nc_girl,do you or any one else know if Madcow disease has any connection with the "Chronic Wasting Disease" That is being seen in the ELK and Mule Deer population that is going on now in the western States.This Chronic Wasting Disease in the ELK and MULE DEER has actually been around a few years now. There seem to be an effort to keep it quiet because Big Hunting  is a big business in the western states. This disease sounds so much like Madcow disease that I have quit hunting and eating Elk. Johnray1

I'll answer that one.  Yes, both BSE and Chronic Wasting Disease are prion mediated disease processes, and are very similar.  

Prions are infective, self-replicating proteins that are not living entities, and don't even have RNA or DNA. 

You are wise to avoid elk or deer from areas with CWD.  We have tons of it in northern IL, I won't touch the stuff.  

Eventually, we will have a cross-species jump of CWD into dairy cattle.  This is because white tail deer like to hang around dairy cattle, and the CWD prion must be spread by urine or saliva since white tail deer don't tend to cannibalize one another.  Therefore, Holsteins will pick it up sooner or later, and the USA will have an episode like we had in the UK. 

I lived in Devon, UK during the big beef cull, but still ate the beef.  The older at-risk animals had been culled, and I consider my risk very slight.  British cattle acquired this prion from sheep offal contaminated with the scrapie prion.  

Kiwi Mum is correct, it is virtually impossible to disinfect contaminated surgical instruments etc.  They boil them in sodium hydroxide.  Cattle brains and other potentially infectious materials are handled very carefully, but since prions infected nervous tissues, we presume that peripheral nerves may be implicated.  

This has very good information: 

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Johnray1 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 4:45pm
Technophobe and CRS,Dr.PH--I want to thank both of you for answers that are real. I will continue to not eat the ELK or Mule Deer.----But I missed my trips out west every fall so much that the last two years We have went on our trip and camped and hunted Jack Rabbits with .22cal rifles and we had a really good time and no problems with shipping hundreds of pounds of meat back home before it ruined.Johnray1
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2014 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

Technophobe and CRS,Dr.PH--I want to thank both of you for answers that are real. I will continue to not eat the ELK or Mule Deer.----But I missed my trips out west every fall so much that the last two years We have went on our trip and camped and hunted Jack Rabbits with .22cal rifles and we had a really good time and no problems with shipping hundreds of pounds of meat back home before it ruined.Johnray1

Johnray, you welcome!  Sorry to ruin your tradition, the CDC says that there are ways to have meat tested for presence of prions. 


 Hunters who harvest deer or elk from known CWD-positive areas may wish to consider having the animal tested for CWD before consuming the meat (information about testing is available from most state wildlife agencies). 

Best game I ever had was moose from Alaska, better than beef!  Your bunny hunting sounds like fun also.  
All game seems to have the chance of being infected with something or other....bunnies have tularemia, which is VERY infectious & a bad disease (it is also a CDC "Category A" bioterrorism agent, right up with smallpox and anthrax!).  We are now finding that squirrels are filthy with the stuff.  

Bear and cougar meat can be loaded with parasites like trichinosis: 


Cook that game well!  

When your number's up, it's up.  Be safe, Chuck
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 2:43am
I would much rather a tularemia infection (less than 1% fatal with timely antibiotics) than a prion disease (no hope at all).  Trichinosis is very easily treated too. 

Having said all that, you do not want any of them if you can avoid it, and only prion disease is completely imune to cooking.  So well done is always safest (annoying when you like your steaks blue like me) and deer better avoided all together. 

My thanks Chuck too.  I had to look tularemia up as I had never heard of it.  You would not believe how much I have  learnt from your posts.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Johnray1 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 8:12am
Technophobe,thanks again. In the area where I live squirrels was a major supply of meat until my generation. Many us still eat them. It is the best meat that ever eat and it is my favorite meat.Even over prime Rib.Johnray1
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I would much rather a tularemia infection (less than 1% fatal with timely antibiotics) than a prion disease (no hope at all).  Trichinosis is very easily treated too. 

Having said all that, you do not want any of them if you can avoid it, and only prion disease is completely imune to cooking.  So well done is always safest (annoying when you like your steaks blue like me) and deer better avoided all together. 

My thanks Chuck too.  I had to look tularemia up as I had never heard of it.  You would not believe how much I have  learnt from your posts.

You are welcome!  Tularemia is an interesting bug....a very tiny bacterium, and very infectious (infectious dose is theoretically one single bacterium!).  Because of its infectiousness and lethality, it was categorized as a Category One bioterrorism agent by the US government. 

This was interesting....tularemia is a Category A bioterrorism agent, and the national "Biowatch" started to register positive hits!  These might have indicated the possibility of a bioterrorism attack.   However, we now know that the Biowatch system is too sensitive and registers false positives from environmental contamination. 


The failure to conduct that work has hobbled the system ever since, particularly in regard to tularemia, which has been involved in nearly all of BioWatch's false alarms.

The bacterium that causes tularemia, or rabbit fever, got its formal name, Francisella tularensis, after being found in squirrels in the early 20th century in Central California's Tulare County. About 200 naturally occurring infections in humans are reported every year in the U.S. The disease can be deadly but is readily curable when treated promptly with antibiotics.

Before BioWatch, scientists knew that the tularemia bacterium existed in soil and water. What the scientists who designed BioWatch did not know — because the fieldwork wasn't done — was that nature is rife with close cousins to it.

The false alarms for tularemia appear to have been triggered by those nonlethal cousins, according to scientists with knowledge of the system.

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
onefluover View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 21 2013
Location: Death Valleyish
Status: Offline
Points: 20151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 12:29pm
.
"And then there were none."
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by onefluover onefluover wrote:

From what I know about "prions", it makes even I think about becoming a vegitarian (yuk!). They are growing and spreading. (Though not technically alive). Cannot be destroyed by cooking, nor autoclaving. If you ingest them you are a goner in a bad way. To me they are like a kind of tiny space alien sent here to destroy us. I own waterfront acreage near Portland. Loaded with deer. Wouldn't touch them. I cried. We gave them names instead.

We've been around prions for many years....in graduate school (1970's), we thought they were filterable agents and called them "slow viruses" because the disease process took so long.  The most famous example was Kuru which afflicted cannibal tribes in Papau New Guinea:


Many epidemiologists guess that long-term, degenerative diseases such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's etc. may have an underlying prion etiology.  They may be more common that we know. 

So far, there is no good proof that eating CWD afflicted deer or elk leads to a human prion disease, but we just don't know.  I don't care for that game meat anyway, not my favorite flavor.   However, if we have to revert to survival hunting, I'll enjoy it.  


CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
OriginalHappyCamper View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 3:56pm
Been a vegetarian for 35 years (YEA)

This issue will not effect me as not eating the flesh is the best precaution.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 4:36pm
Not realy OHC, prions can be transmitted by milk and milk products  http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0000071, unless you are a vegan - that should be safe.

Though I believe some forms of parkinsons disease may be triggered by pesticides.  Residues of these can be most concentrated in vegetable products. - Not to mention afflatoxin, glutein and soy allergies........ 

Now I come to think of it I'm not sure water is safe.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Utwig View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: June 02 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 2210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Utwig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 5:20pm
I don't care, cows are delicious. I bet Panda's are too, they look it.

Utwig.
Remember to get your whole head in front of the shotgun!
Back to Top
onefluover View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 21 2013
Location: Death Valleyish
Status: Offline
Points: 20151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 5:32pm
.
"And then there were none."
Back to Top
Johnray1 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 6:38pm
Technophobe, I have a very different idea about where prions came from. I have read what all of you have said for several days now and the stories are good,but they are wrong. I know the story that is told to everyone,but that story is not true. I have some friends who are Brits. They know where this disease came from and they will never tell and I will never tell. But the reason that this MadCow disease started in England,is because that is where it was made.The Island probably is contaminated for ever and it was an accident.No one knows what the prions will do next. They might slowly disappear and they might kill a large portion of  England's population and any one else who has eaten the beef there.Johnray1
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 7:52pm
Johnray1, in Colorado the hunters who have any smarts send the brains of elk and deer shot to I think the Colorado Health Dept. for Prion testing. If the animal is tested and clear you can eat it. No one reports how many animals have the Prions.

If TSHTF and it is long term I will eat wild game but not until then. I use to hunt birds but not large game. I can tell you that if you pressure cook game the gamey flavor is a lot less.   Also use wine when you pressure cook, it makes it tasty.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2014 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

Technophobe, I have a very different idea about where prions came from. I have read what all of you have said for several days now and the stories are good,but they are wrong. I know the story that is told to everyone,but that story is not true. I have some friends who are Brits. They know where this disease came from and they will never tell and I will never tell. But the reason that this MadCow disease started in England,is because that is where it was made.The Island probably is contaminated for ever and it was an accident.No one knows what the prions will do next. They might slowly disappear and they might kill a large portion of  England's population and any one else who has eaten the beef there.Johnray1

I lived in the UK during the Mad Cow cull & first cases of new variant Crutzfeld-Jacob disease, let me explain.  

Sheep have been infected with a prion causing the condition "scrapie" for centuries.  Scrapie makes the sheep scrape themselves against trees, fences etc. until bloodied and weak.  Regardless, Brits and others have been eating sheep with scrapie for many years without any apparent transmissible spongiform encephalapothies. 

However, folks don't realize that, until recently, cattle have been fed a diet that likely included rendered animal bone and red meat proteins.  Being a fermenter on four legs, cattle can be fed nearly anything....chicken manure, waste candy, corn, cooked feathers etc.   When surplus amounts of rendered sheep offal became available, it was widely fed to British cattle, and in turn, their rendered cattle parts also entered the food chain.   Cows eating cows, not at all natural. 

Prions resist extremely high temperatures, and the conventional rendering process doesn't reach those temperatures, so infectious particles remained in the feed.  Eventually, the sheep prions crossed over the species barrier, and Mad Cow Disease was born.   It jumped again into consumers of infected cattle & byproducts like gelatin.  http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/

The primary source of encephalopathy prions seems to be the nervous tissues, so eat cow brains at your own risk.  

Once the source of Mad Cow was determined, all sorts of controls went into effect worldwide.  It was mostly stamped out by culling cattle in the age range that would be at risk, and restricting the diets of new cattle cohorts to strictly inspected and approved feedstuffs.   However, new cases pop up rarely.  
This recently happened in Brazil.  Like MERS, we still don't know all of the epizootic facts about BSE. 

What about all of the meat meal?  Renderers are a clever lot, so they now market the red-meat meat meal to poultry.  Problem is, the prion goes right through the bird gut into the litter, and since some operators are known to feed chicken litter to cattle, it will likely break out again sometime.   

In the grand scale of things, we humans aren't at very high risk for prion encephalopathies, but God help you if you have one.  Horrible ending.   Your risk of dying in a car accident is much higher than most of the things we discuss on this website (especially if you are driving in KSA). 

Be safe, Chuck 
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 3:10am
Chuck's right again.  Pretty much all prion disease can be efectively traced to infection by eating.  The Papua New Ginea tribes got CJD through canabalisim.  Alzheimer's apears to originate from scrapie.  And we know new variant CJD came from BSE. 

Scientists have examined prions and their formation.  We all have prions, though we are born with healthy ones (usually).  The damage starts when an altered, twisted prion comes in contact with a normal healthy one.  The healthy one then twists like the disease prion, and the contagion spreads. 

This is where it gets wierd.  Some people seem to be genetically imune to prion disease (we do not usually know why though sometimes it is because of different or absent prions in their tissue) and others partially imune.  Those who are not imune take an incredibly long time to sicken and die and those who are partially imune take so long they usually die of something else first.

This length of time makes epidemiological studys rather difficult.  It is rather hard to write up an experiment that continues after your own death from old age!

Also this suggests that prion disease has been around for a very long time.  It can take species thousands or even millions of years to evolve imunities and the disease must be around to drive the process. 

There is also strong evidence that all races of human being and hominids in general including the modern great apes indulged in canabalism and specifically the eating of the human brain as they did animal brains (when they were lucky enough to kill something for food).  There is a possibility that the process of eating brain and spinal cord is instinctive and helped drive the large brain in hominids. 

Willoby Brat assures me that he and his sister, when children in New Zealand used to argue over who got to eat the fragment of spinal cord left in lamb chops that had been fried.  They erroneously called this marrow (circa late 40s-early50s).  Happily at 70 he does not appear to have alzheimer's, yet.  Nor did his mother till she turned 90 and at that age there could have been many causes.

So where prion disease is concerned, we do not yet have all the answers.  But we are pretty sure where it came from recently (past few hundred years).  The first prion in the world to twist we do not know, but the causes for that could be any one of a multitude: Mutagenic chemicals, viruses, radiation including ultraviolet light and a host of others.  They may have occured randomly many times throughout the whole period of Earth's occupation by living things. 

Once again Chuck is right and there is little point in worrying about this as the risks are quite small.  Like all risks better avoided but there are far bigger ones in the food world.  My friends brother became a vegan for health reasons.  Sadly he developed cancer.  I do not know if he was aware of the risks of afflatoxin or not.

The healthiest diets are the most varied.  Most of the meat-related diseases that count statistically, like heart disease, are dramatically reduced by dropping the amount of meat eaten.  The risk of mercury poisoning  from eating seafood (fish, seaweed and shelfish) is negated if you do not eat too much of it.  Most plants carry some toxins to limit their losses from predation, our bodies are designed to eliminate these if not taken in excess. 

(The humble apple seed is a perfect example of this.  Rich in protein and healthy oils they are quite nutritious.  They contain cyanide though, just a tiny bit.  If you eat the seeds of the apple you just ate you injest just enough cyanide to kill off a few pre-cancerous cells in your body.  Then you eliminate the cyanide and walk away healthier.  Eat a mugfull of seeds (a sackfull of apples worth) in one go and you would suffocate from cyanide poisoning before you could detoxify it.)

Even water in excess can disrupt your electrolyte balance, there have actually been deaths from drinking too much of it.

If you want to live a long and healthy life, branch out and eat something new today.  Try going vegetarian a few days a week.  The variety gets to be very enjoyable too.

My thanks to Willoby Brat for assistance with this post.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 6:28am
I'm vegan, Technophobe - but I'm sure prions will still find a way to get to me

And afltoxin can potentially affect anyone that consumes things like peanuts, peanut butter, and corn products. Nasty, nasty stuff

Chuck - I remember when prions were first identified as the cause of BSE, and there was a big debate about whether they should be studied by bacteriologists or virologists even though they fell into neither category, essentially being nothing more than protein strands that are folded differently. I wonder who got the job in the end, or did a whole new discipline evolve to study them?

OriginalHappyCamper - good for you
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 8:04am
Really, really unlikely JD.  B12 is your dietary buggaboo.  Recent studies suggest that the vegan alternatives don't really work and in some cases actually assist your B12 stores to drop faster.  There are probably GM bacteria somewhere making the right stuff but I don't know where to look.  The standard blue-green algae versions should be avoided.

Vegan primates (other than us) tend to stock up by occasionally eating their own poo.  I can't say I suggest this.

This version is safe though.  Hear me out as there are several strands of research entwined here.

Tempeh is a fungus grown in much of Asia in alternating vats in people's homes.  It was shown to contain sufficient B12 to keep vegans healthy in regular dietary use (2-3 times a week).  Some scientists (Dutch I think) ran tests in the lab to find out the actual B12 content of the culture, they found none!  A separate group of scientists found sufficient for health in the home grown stuff.   ????  It eventually transpired that the home grown stuff (having been coughed over and handled in a less sanitary way) contained a secondary culture of pneumococci which were making bioavailable B12 very nicely and not causing any medical problems! 

A good tempeh culture is recommended as part of TSHTF bug-in preparations as The amount of land needed to support a vegan lifestyle is minute compared to the rest of us.

As a point of interest our lot are vegetarian 3-4 days a week and vegan 1-2.  Learning the ropes is part of our prepping.  The small amount of meat consumed is home-grown or game, as We are horrified by the abatoir system, both for health and cruelty reasons.  I am pretty unhappy with the dairy business systems too, but as our land and the whole surrounding area is deficient in both calcium and magnesium giving up milk is not recommended, especially as WB is soy-intolerant.  We tried keeping our own goats but this was too much like slavery!  Hard work is ok, but goats are a nightmare.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Johnray1 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 8:56am
Technophobe,the first case of MadCow disease was approximately 100 yards down wind from a British Military Bio-Weapons research facility.It was an accident that it was released.But now they do not know if it will die out or get into all animals.-----It is just like Lymes disease in this country,there is a U.S. Military Bio-Weapons research facility just a few miles from where it was first seen. The man who built and ran the facility was a Hitler research scientist that we captured and we brought him to this country. His research for Hitler was to develop a Bio-Weapon that used ticks as a vector to spread a deadly disease to animals and then to man. He continued his work here on Plum Island,N.Y. (for the U.S. Army)about  1.5 miles from the mainland and not very far  from Lyme,Connecticut.Lyme,Connecticut is where Lymes disease was first diagnosis. I do not know if its released was an accident or intentional. Lymes disease was seen for years in just one type of tick( the Deer tick),but it is spreading to other types of ticks now. My Vet. told me that we now have Lymes disease in the common wood tick that we have in the area where I live. -----There is a reason that the Red Cross will not take blood from any one that has spent time in England.-----We had more cases of Lymes disease in this country last year than we have ever had.Luckily,we have anti-bionics that will kill it,but   only if it is caught in the early part of being infected.If it is untreated ,it is a very debilitating disease and very hard to kill later on.Any one with a tick bite or a "Bulls Eye" lesion is treated immediately with 30 days of anti-biontics. If it is not treated even before the lab tests are positive, after the Bulls Eye lesion goes away,the patient may have no symptoms for up to a year and at that point,it takes 1.5 years of IV antibiotics to treat the patient and the patient may still be crippled for life.-----And it is increasing its infective area every year.For years it was only seen in New England and was spread by the Deer tick. Now it is spreading to other ticks and increasing its area.---------I worked for 3 months(as a Locum Tenens) in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia,where the deer tick is common. The first bulls eye lesion that I saw,I had the head doctor to look at it and I told him what I thought it was and how it should be treated. He told me that I was exactly right and I would find that this was very common in that area.I had never seen a case of Lymes disease until then.  Now it is spreading to other ticks and to other areas.  Johnray1                P.S.What I am telling you is that our own countries made both diseases,in search of a perfect Bio-Weapon. The Russians (USSR) have had more accidental releases of weaponized bugs and many people killed,but they do not report their releases.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 9:43am
I think our bioweapons research is guilty of enough horrors without attributing BSE to them.  I suspect the proximity was no more than a coincidence. 

There is plenty of double blind research which clearly and definiately shows the link between BSE and scrapie.  Feeding meat to herbivores is asking for trouble.  They do not have the imune system to handle meat-borne pathogens.  Forcing any animals into canibalism is downright stupid!
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
onefluover View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: April 21 2013
Location: Death Valleyish
Status: Offline
Points: 20151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 9:46am
.
"And then there were none."
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 9:54am
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I'm vegan, Technophobe - but I'm sure prions will still find a way to get to me

And afltoxin can potentially affect anyone that consumes things like peanuts, peanut butter, and corn products. Nasty, nasty stuff

Chuck - I remember when prions were first identified as the cause of BSE, and there was a big debate about whether they should be studied by bacteriologists ot virologists even though they fell into neither category, essentially being nothing more than protein strands that are folded differently. I wonder who got the job in the end, or did a whole new discipline evolve to study them?

OriginalHappyCamper - good for you

Thanks, JD!  Congrats on being vegan, I always keep working in that direction myself, but it's hard to do & takes discipline.  

The first folks who got involved in the BSE investigations were epidemiologists....the term means "inflicted upon man" roughly, and we study everything and anything from a population perspective.  We have infectious disease, injury, cancer epidemiologists and many more specialities.  I know or have known some of the best in the world, it is very humbling to be in the same room with these folks.

Epidemiologists have applied their statistical and investigative tools to studying prions for many years, without knowing the exact cause of the disease we were studying.  Kuru is a great case study of this, we all called it a "slow virus" back in the 1970's because that is what we thought it was.  

This is an interesting read on the slow virus subject:


So, once the abnormal prion was identified, the virologists got out of the way & molecular biochemists took over.   Prion illnesses share many qualities with viruses in that they are transmissible and due to a particular agent, but they violate Koch's Postulates because prion illnesses can be spontaneous or even familial.  We still don't understand these things very well.  

This is fascinating: 


CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 11:12am
Technophobe - there's an MD called Dr Michael Greger who wrote "Bird Flu - a virus of our own hatching" (an absolute must read in my opinion), and he's vegan. He researches stuff to a degree that I've not seen anywhere else, and he looked at the problem of B12 and omega 3 insufficiency in typical vegan diets, both of which can contribute to heart disease rates (and possibly alzheimers) comparable with meat eaters. Omega 3 is easy - flax meal (not seeds, which are pretty much indigestible) gives you all you need without the risk of heavy metal poisoning now associated with fish consumption, but as you mention some B12 supplements don't work as well as people think. I take methyl B12 as recommended by Dr Greger, and I seem to be fine. In fact, when I first starting taking them I popped three of the suckers to get my level up faster (you can't overdose because you pee out the excess) and I was bouncing off the walls all day. Turns out that taking 48,000% of your recommended daily intake all at once will do that...
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 11:19am
Chuck - thanks for the links

I have to say the going vegan after being veggie for four years was as big of a step as giving up meat. You have to rethink all your protein sources, which are typically dairy in a vegetarian diet. Been vegan for 26 years though, so I'm getting the hang of it
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 11:50am
I'm impressed JD.  Though I find vegetable protein easy and too much dairy unpleasant, 26 years of veganism is really impressive.  I think I am heading your way, but too slowly to live long enough to be around to do 26 years. RESPECT!Thumbs Up as they say these days.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 11:59am
Thanks Chuck, the two links were fascinating.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 1:32pm
I really enjoy AFT when we wander off the topic of avian flu & into other interesting situations!  

The development of BSE as a bioweapon is not plausible, as the incubation time is far too long, and there is no effective vaccine for it.  That's why smallpox & anthrax were the focus of bioweapon research in the Cold War era, you need to be able to protect your own troops & population from blowback.  

Prion illnesses are simply evolution in action, and fascinating to watch!  We may all be harboring some infectious prion and not know it, since it takes decades to express as a spongiform encephalopathy.  

That would be a great premise for a sci-fi novel.....civilization collapses not from a pandemic flu virus, nor a coronal mass ejection, but from a silent prion disease!  Untreatable, progressive, ultimately fatal.  
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 4:10pm
Guys, like my Dad's doctor told him "We are all going to die of something." This stuff is way too much for people to worry about. Believe me being 60 something you quit eating too much meat as you get older. You just don't want it anymore.

As I look at my 91 year old mother and her 95 year old sister and my friends 93 year old mother and my 95 year old in-laws I look at how they ate and drank.

They all did not live their young lives with all the chemical additives. All the foods they had were "natural". No antibiotics, no genetic modified corn (feed for animals and us), no food colors, no 10 syllable chemicals in all our packaged food, no packaged food just a few can goods, few chemicals being dumped into the water, no pcb's or all the other 3 initial stuff in our water, and all other things like I have mentioned.

So we are all on borrowed time due to "Modernization of our food" and the need to make more food for way too many people on earth.   We will not live as long as the WWII generation.    
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 4:21pm
Absolutely!  Once upon a time people had to be buried within 3 days or the rot was too umpleasant.  Now we store bodies for weeks.  Part of that is our improved refridgeration, part is the accumulated perservatives in the corpse.

I try very hard to avoid additives.  I want to last well into old age not last well after death.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Johnray1 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 5:15pm
Technophobe and all, back years ago when all food was organic and all water was not polluted and the air was not polluted,the life expectancy was 35 years old.I think that some of the oldest skeletons dug up from ancient times are in their late 40s,the rest are much younger.----The Indians that lived in the area where I live now,their life expectancy was 25 to 35. TB killed most of them.Johnray1
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2014 at 5:25pm
No arguements from me on that score.  Antibiotics were the main life extender, good nutrition the next.  Yes I would much rather live now than then.  But all silver linings have a cloud and unnecessary additives in our food are one I would rather avoid.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
anonymous in indiana View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anonymous in indiana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 8:26am
we currently have 7 confirmed cases of mad cow (CJD) in same area . and more last year yet nothing is mentioned anywhere in statistics and that is crazy
!
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 2:25pm
Anonymous in indiana - can you post a link? There have been rumors of Mad Cow Disease in the States for years now, but not much in the way of confirmation of how widespread it might be from authorities. I'm sure that the devastation it wrought on British meat producers and suppliers was duly noted and any or all news is vetted (ie, buried) to protect the industry over here from a similar fate.
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Hazelpad View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: September 09 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hazelpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 3:28pm
Since someone brought this subject up, here is a summary I have put together of recent situation in UK if anyone interested. However before that here is a funny story of my brush with Mad Cow Disease.

A lot of the vCJD research goes on in Edinburgh. I and 5 others were visiting a university for a small group session to learn about a thing called Raman spectroscopy. It was an impressive set up,but the room was hot, had been out night before so was trying not to drift off. Started to concentrate on little epindorf tube containing the biological sample being examined, watched this little plastic tube bouncing and vibrating happily away....all the time trying to listen to guy raving about his technology, somewhere in my fuzzy head his words ' Now that's enough pure mad cow disease prion to cause a lot of disease......suddenly little epindorff tube didn't look so cute and harmless anymore, and I wasn't so sleepy. Inside my head I was whispering " Stop bouncing around and hitting it with your super energy rays in front of my face, hope the bloody lid is on it"..... didn't feel so sleepy I can tell you.

Anyway here is a round up of current UK situation on human cases.

There are 5 forms of human CJD including

Sporadic
Latrogenic
Genetic
vCJD
Variably protease-sensitive prionopathy (VPSPr) (the most recent discovered)

It is vCJD and potential of latrogenic that is associated with MADCOW DISEASE.

In the UK in humans the total summary of vCJD cases from Oct1990 to Jan 15th 2015 is given below.


Deaths from definite vCJD (confirmed): 122
Deaths from probable vCJD (without neuropathological confirmation): 55
Deaths from probable vCJD (neuropathological confirmation pending): 0
Number of deaths from definite or probable vCJD (as above): 177

So todate since 1990 approx 177 people have died from human form of Mad Cow Disease. There are no human case at present, and only one case in UK the past 4 years which was in 2012.

( Past history of vCJD in UK, we saw human cases started to be recorded in 1995 with 3 cases, rising and peaking in the year 2000 with 28 cases recorded that year. Declining there after. (Avg age was 26 years fold).

There have been attempts to screen the UK population for vCJD. A 2004 study of 12,674 archived appendix and tonsil specimens found 3 positives and estimated a prevalence of infection/ carrier in the UK population of 1 in 4000 people. This prompted the Health Protection Agency in England to initiated a larger appendix study. Released in August 2012, the study found 16 definitive positive appendices of 32,441 samples examined, equating to an estimate of around 1 infection per 2000 UK citizens. Other smaller studies found different prevalences 1 in 10,000. And 1 in 500,000.   So the answer is not really known.

If it is 1 in 2000 then the big question is why are more people notgetting sick. 4 sugestions are

1) long incubation times, perhaps decades.

2) Genetic, All patients but one, with clinical vCJD who have been genotyped are homozygous for methionine at position 129 in the PRNP gene; however, since around a third of the UK population share this genotype, there are presumed to be other genetic factors involved in susceptibility.
(Genes PRNP, STMN2 and RARB) warrant further investigation as potentially being involved in prion pathology, and postulate that susceptibility conferred by these variants may also contribute to vCJD cases.


3) The samples used were tonsils which is lymphoid tissue, designed to harbour foreign substances ( like holding cells) , many argue it may not go from this location across the blood brain barrier. Infact its continued presence in lymphoid tissue may mean past exposure and resistance to the prion via the induction of immunological memory in lymphoid tissue ( like a vaccination).

One main criticism I have of this study, is that they missed out a simple control group. I.e. they failed to examine stored tissue from the 1970s and earlier, before BSE appeared. They are addressing this now. If these turn out to be positive then either the testing method is crap, vCJD has been around longer etc. I am suspicious as I am surprised any scientist would not have included such an obvious negative control during original experimental design.


There is currently more population testing using different methods. Including the use of a new blood test, which can now be used to detect prionsin the blood. That started 6 months ago.

These studies are necessary especially for blood bank/ transfusion / transplant/medicine.


Lastly to the USA. There have been 4 human vCJD cases confirmed in the past 10 years. 2 were in people who were residents in UK during period 1980 - 1996. Another was raised in Saudia Arabia and moved to US in 2005, and the 4th had extensive travel in Europe including UK during the late 1980, early 1990s. All evidence supports the likelihood that infection in the 4 individuals therefore occurred outside USA”.

Anyway that was just an update for anyone interested in the topic.


Back to Top
Hazelpad View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: September 09 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hazelpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 4:10pm
Oh and PS Jacksdad you are right about the impact on beef industry. US just lifted ban on Irish beef just recently. In UK at the time every farm was alight as a massive cull lasting months got underway. Last documented case in USA was as follows.

On March 15, 2006, the USDA announced the confirmation of BSE in a cow in Alabama. The case was identified in a non-ambulatory (downer) cow on a farm in Alabama. The animal was euthanized by a local veterinarian and buried on the farm. The age of the cow was estimated by examination of the dentition as 10-years-old. It had no ear tags or distinctive marks; the herd of origin could not be identified despite an intense investigation (see second featured item above and Alabama BSE Investigation, Final Epidemiology Report, May 2006 ). In August 2008, several ARS investigators reported that a rare, genetic abnormality that may persist within the cattle population "is considered to have caused" BSE in this atypical (H-type) BSE animal from Alabama

Interesting if there is evidence of others.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down