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Malaysian passenger plane crashes in Ukraine

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 2:08am
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-31/sinister-choreography-mh17-probe-smear-russia DJ-The Dutch autorities want to push their version of the MH17 mass murder as the "only possible version" eventhough it is based on info from the Ukraine secret service (even on a telephone recording made a day before the MH17 was shot down). 

DJ-The only possible conclusion has to be that western governments are using lies-knowingly-to push an anti-Russia agenda. (From the Assad gas-attacks in Syria, Skripal novichok attacks in the UK , Maidan-shootings in Kiev, to the MH17 story western governments are not interested in reality but propaganda.)
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 3:40am
Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

DJ-The only possible conclusion has to be that western governments are using lies-knowingly-to push an anti-Russia agenda. propaganda.)
I agree.  Of course they are!

Where I dissagree is in the reason for our side's push.  I do not think it is unwarranted; I think they are pushing back.

The evidence points* to the fact that Russia was involved in supplying Assad's regime with chemical weapons and that they did poison the Skripals.  They also have a history of this.  That is not a condemnation of Russia.  Their reasons are every bit as good as ours.  For instance, although Assad is a monster, he is almost certainly the lesser of two evils.  The West would probably benefit from listening to Russia occasionally, even if they don't like what they hear.

Nonetheless, we can't afford to not push back.  Russian politics are all about strength, that was their reason for putting Putin in power in the first place, so, if we fail to retaliate, we are seen as weak - and more of the same ensues.




*Points that way; there are no certainties as 'us public' will never be told the whole truth - by either side.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 1:21pm
Techno, 

I do not believe in "saints"-politics is always compromise with "reality". The former London eye-doctor B.Assad would have loved to stay a London eye-doctor-his older brother died-he had to succeed his father...to become a "monster" for western media. The same media that welcomes "crownprince MbS" from Saudi Arabia who jailed the rich (corrupt) elite in his country for money, Saudi Arabia-sept 11-2001 mass murderer-seems to be a welcome "monster".....

In july 1988 a US ship in the Persian Gulf did shoot down an Iran passenger plane-claiming that plane was attacking the US ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655. In december '88 Lockerbie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103 happened-Libya was blamed while Iran did it in reaction to the july '88 massacre.

History is full of false flags and the outcome is disaster. You can not govern the world on lies !

You can not fight climate change on lies, deal with all kind of health crises (to many to mention-we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg, one may expect live-expectancy going down in most western countries) or solve mass migration, water, food crises on lies....

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2018 at 2:53pm
Don't get me started on our deals with the Saudis.  "Deal with the Devil" is just the start - I don't want to show you where my bad language ends!  I hope you never see how ugly I can get.

I could not have a lower opinion of the whole house of Saud if I burrowed down under our deepest sewer.  My opinion of those who do deals with them is even lower.

Having just agreed with that sentiment and those following, I also totally agree with the last statement most of all.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2018 at 7:17am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGS1u12q2EQ Sir Anthony Beevor on the battle of Arnhem 45 min-why history 18 min, present from 1.23min. 

The truth in history takes time-after the US army crossed the Waal-river september 44 at Nijmegen they did "murder" 300 german pow's. The RAF-bombing campain over Germany had no military use after september 44. (Anthony Beevor)

Maybe the future will tell who was behind the downing of MH17 and why. The MH17-massacre is one of the reasons for a new cold war-wich is not a good thing for most (exept weapon-dealers Military-Industrial-Complex).

(with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Javad_Zarif in 1988 reacting to the US downing of Iran Airbus flight 655-in the video-now that same Zarif is Iran FM)
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2018 at 12:50pm
DJ-Long read but a good summary; Russia is kept out of any serious investigation, "evidence" from Ukraine is presented as fact.

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2018 at 12:28pm
https://southfront.org/summing-up-russian-military-briefing-on-mh17-incident-missiles-serial-numbers-fake-videos-and-intercepted-radio-communications/

(DJ-There were some earlier reports that the BUK-missile used had shrapnel that belonged to an older type of BUK-missile. Russia did not have them in 2014-Ukraine did. "Seperatists" could get control of a Ukraine BUK-but it is a complicated missile to use-you need several vehicles (a.o for radar, command/control and specialized crew) so in that scenario "seperatists"would be a crew knowing how to deal with such a system.

DJ-I do not believe Russia would allow pro Russia "forces not onder Russian control" to have such a system. So either Russia did bring down MH17 or "pro-Kiev/Ukrainian forces"did.

Besides that the airspace below 10km should have been closed-Ukraine was/is responsible for that. )
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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