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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Now tracking the Aussie Flu.

MASKS

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RotroShaggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RotroShaggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 9:48am

This post is in response to the above conversation between Rick, Ella and Duck Off regarding N95 Masks and fluid resistance.  I am also worried about this topic and, like Rick, think that the stakes are so high here we don't want to be misinformed or cut corners to save a buck.

I Just got off the phone with CDC/NIOSH's respirator technical advisor in Pittsburgh.  I told him I was lookiing for the best N95 and that the 3M 1860 looked great because of the fluid resistance but that 3M masks don't fit me very well.  He agreed that a mask that doesn't fit is worthless--even if it is the Mercedes of all masks. 

I asked him how important "fluid resistance" is.  He said he was puzzled by the question.  He said ALL N95 masks are appropriate for airborne particles.  NIOSH subjects ALL N95 masks to 6 hours of high humidity conditions when testing.  So, any N95 maks has been approved to 95% efficiency to .3 microns AFTER having been subjected to 6 hours of high levels of humidity.  They are designed with moisture in mind. 

If you plan on working directly with patients and anticipate getting splashed with blood, urine, fecal matter, or large quantities of sputum, then the "fluid resistance" comes in handy and would be recommended. 

I won't pretend to be an expert, but based on my conversation, I am going to stress fit over any fluid resistance features.  Based on my conversation with DCD/NIOSH, I think any NIOSH N95 is going to be able to handle moisture particles and tiny droplets.  The 3M 1860 and 1870 do have the fluid resistant shell, but they are shaped identical to the 8210 and made with the same materials, which were not as high quality as some of the others I tried and did not fit my face properly.  For the record, I had the best fit with the North 7140 and the Moldex 2200.  Both great masks and fairly inexpensive.  I ordered 300 of the North and 100 of the moldex. 

RotroShaggy
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RotroShaggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RotroShaggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 9:54am
I also asked the CDC/NIOSH guy about how long a respirator can be worn.  I told him I had heard they are effective anywhere from 30 minutes all the way up to 8 hours.  He would not give me a solid answer, but said they recommend changing after one of three events  1) it has gotten wet 2) it has been damaged 3) breathing resistance increases.  He said that in dry particle environments one of these things can last for a few days.  I plan on discarding after each use, so I didn't go into any more detail with him on that. 
RotroShaggy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 10:19am
Originally posted by RotroShaggy RotroShaggy wrote:

I also asked the CDC/NIOSH guy about how long
a respirator can be worn.  I told him I had heard they are effective
anywhere from 30 minutes all the way up to 8 hours.  He would not give
me a solid answer, but said they recommend changing after one of three
events  1) it has gotten wet 2) it has been damaged 3) breathing
resistance increases.  He said that in dry particle environments one of
these things can last for a few days.  I plan on discarding after each use,
so I didn't go into any more
detail with him on that. 


Good advice. You only need the wear the thing when you
feel you might come in close proximity to a potential vector/virus carrier.

So assuming you need to go out, if the stores are open, I would put my
mask on before I went shopping. If you don't come in close proximity to
anyone, then I would consider reusing the mask another day.

If I was within a few feet ofanyone, less than 15-feet, I would toss the
mask. Because they are not coughing does not mean they are not
infected. If I'm taking care of someone that is sick, I would change the
mask frequently. Just an opinion.
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Elizabeth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elizabeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 1:41pm

I ordered from www.labsafety.com

About a month ago, before I knew I could find out anything I needed to know in here, I was at Longs looking for masks.  I knew the ones they had wouldn't do it.  So I called the 800 number on the box, and asked what kind I should get for bird flu.  The guy gave me the above website.  They arrived within a week.  I got 2 kinds, wasn't sure what to do so I got both.  Here is my actual order and what I paid.

RESP N95 DISPSBL 3M 8210 NIOSH         & nbsp;  

 

2    37746         & nbsp;       BX  1      Available  LSS         &nb sp;         &nb sp;        

18.40

     RESP N95 DISPBL MOLDEX STD NIO         &nb sp;  

 

3    4573         &n bsp;        PK  1      Available  LSS         &nb sp;         &nb sp;        

 

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Hope View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2006 at 8:18pm

Rocky,

Did your new masks come in yet?  I think it was this week you were getting another type.  You preferred them to the ones on Oprah.

Let me know!

Hope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2006 at 10:30pm
Unfortunately there is remarkably little information about masks. I agree
that fit is priority one. The following was the only references I could find
regarding recent experiences with masks that might be relevant.

"When we compared use of N95 to use of surgical masks, the relative
SARS risk associated with the N95 mask was half that for the surgical
mask; however, because of the small sample size, the result was not
statistically significant. Our data suggest that the N95 mask offers more
protection than a surgical mask.

This study focused on critical care nurses working at the first SARS
hospital outbreak in Toronto. Since use of personal protective equipment
was not standardized during the study period, it was possible to assess
the effect of personal protective equipment. The use of personal
protective equipment was highly variable because the nurses were often
unaware that their patients had SARS. Our results highlight the
importance of using personal protective equipment when caring for SARS
patients. We estimate that if the entire cohort had used masks
consistently, SARS risk would have been reduced from 6% to 1.4% per
shift."

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no2/03-0838.htm#1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2006 at 10:47pm
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Hope View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2006 at 2:17am

Rick,

Do you have a good source for ordering the 3M 1860's.  (Like 100 of them.)

Thanks for your info!

 

 

Hope
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striper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote striper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2006 at 5:45am

I am more confused than ever about which mask to get. I need to buy for 2 adults and one 8-year old. I see the following made by 3M. Some seem to have an exhaust valve and some don't. How do I kinow which one to get. Mind you, I am not a healthcare professional and in the event of apandemic, my exposure could be limited to caring for my family.

3M 8210 N95
3M 8212 N95
3M 8214 N95
3M 8233 N100
3M 8293 P100
3M 8511 N95 
3m 9210 N95
3M 9211 N95
3M 1860 N95
3M 1870 N95

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2006 at 6:18am


You need to try on a mask to see how they fit.
The higher rated masks "N100" will be less comfortable to breathe than N95.
The following site might help with your questions. There is a sample of
some below.



http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/safety/occ_health_s afety/
node_GS63SXS2HXbe/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_5SDD44F7DZge/
gvel_RL5PK085P3gl/theme_us_ohes_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/
output_html
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striper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote striper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2006 at 10:06am

Went to Home Depot and bought a 3M N100 8233 respirator for $15.97, two of 3M N95 8511 respirator for $6.97 and a 20-box of 3M N95 8110 respirator for $17.97.

Will try these to see which one fits. Looks like the N100 is way too expensive. I had seen it for about $6 onm the web.

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RotroShaggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RotroShaggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2006 at 1:03pm

hi Striper.  I have posted the following  information on this and other threads, but I'll repeat it in case my experience can help someone.  3M is not the only manufacturer of N95s.  When I first started shopping, I was stuck on 3Ms because they were a name I recognized and trusted.  So I ordered the 8000's without having first tried one on.  They were very inexpensive, so I could afford a bunch and I thought having a bunch would be important.  BUT I made the mistake of underestimating fit. 

An N95 is an N95 when it comes to how they are rated (95% or greater at .3 microns), BUT they are not all created eqally when it comes to fit.  The 8000's didn't even come close to providing a secure fit.  So I had to spend about $30 to send them back to the distributor and wait for my credit card to be credited. 

Based on my knowledge that the 3M 8210 was the best selling N95 on the market, I made the SAME mistake and ordered some of those without trying one on.  In the meantime,  I orded a sampler pack from Masksnmore.com (I HIGHLY recommend these guys.  They are friendly and fast)  Anyway, I was able to try 12 different brands, including the ever so popular 3M 8210.  Guess what?  The 8210 didn't fit, either.  So I called the company from whom I ordered the 8210's and cancelled my order. 

Based on the sampler pack from Masksnmore.com, I narrowed my selection down to the North 7140 and the Moldex 2200.  Both fit very well.  The North has an exhaust valve but the Moldex does not.  Keep in mind that neither model is the "best" that the respective companies have to offer--there are higher models, like the Moldex 2300 and 2400, for example.  BUT I had to find the line between getting the best I can but at the same time getting enough to last through 3 or 4 waves of pandemic. 

I personally could not afford to buy 400 N95's at $6.00 a pop or more (See Tryosin, etc.)  So you have to sort of find that line and buy within your comfort zone.  I am not bashing 3M.  They just didn't fit MY face.  They may work well for you. 

The point is, don't make the mistake I made TWICE--try some out for you and your family and then buy the highest quantity of the best model(s) that you can afford, depending on how many you think you will want or need.  Remember--the fanciest, highest qualty N100 with all the bells and whistles is WORTHLESS unless it fits properly.  Fit is the most important factor when finding the right N95 for you.  If it leaks, nothing else matters.  Good luck! Hope this post helps someone.

RotroShaggy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2006 at 4:38pm



http://www.startribune.com/535/story/269007.html

Sat Feb 25/06

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 5:59pm

I went to order more masks today and see this.  The sign of the times...

"3M is currently back-ordering the 3M 1860 and 3M 1860S Healthcare Particulate Respirator. We hope to begin shipping our backorders by the beginning of March. Orders will be filled in the order in which they were received. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you. We will continue to keep everyone updated."


Hope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:52am



main1297500.shtml">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/08 /health/
webmd/main1297500.shtml


"Everyone wore one in 1918 and there was still a pandemic". I think the
quality of the masks or the information available was below par.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote striper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:05am

The amount of contradictory infromation out there is amazing. One day it is "Wear face masks". Another day it is "Face masks may not help". I remember reading a month or two ago a declaration by a scientist in Asis that Tamiflu is useless as a therapy for Avain Flu. Most of us know that Tamiflu is not a vaccine but a medicine that helps control and shorten the flu once we get it. I am puzzled by all this contradictory stuff. I am even more confused about the masks to purchase.

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Hope View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 12:01am

Hi Striper,

I was equally confused about masks but found this blog by Anita very helpful.  Seeing all the photos and reading the descriptions really helped me know what I wanted to order.  I have two types now, but my latest purchase (after viewing this site) are the 3M 1860's. 

As far as Tamiflu goes, I got it right away when I first heard the words "bird flu".  I like knowing I may have something that "could" help during a time when there is nothing else more promising.

Best of luck

Hope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote striper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 7:33am
Thanks Hope. The 1860 doesn't seem to have a valve. Did you try it on? Was it comfrotable to breath and exhale weraing it? Which other model do you have? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 6:25pm
"The amount of contradictory infromation out there is amazing. One day
it is "Wear face masks". Another day it is "Face masks may not help". I
remember reading a month or two ago a declaration by a scientist in Asis
that Tamiflu is useless as a therapy for Avain Flu. Most of us know that
Tamiflu is not a vaccine but a medicine that helps control and shorten the
flu once we get it. I am puzzled by all this contradictory stuff. I am even
more confused about the masks to purchase."



----------------------------

The WHO has no official position about non-medical
people wearing surgical/face masks during a pandemic. In light of what
you currently know, does this seem like a prudent/common sense
position? Consider the risk versus reward ratio.


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