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How are people gonna reinforce windows and doors?

Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Home & Family Planning
Forum Name: Home Protection
Forum Description: (Home and self protection)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=18410
Printed Date: August 23 2019 at 6:37am


Topic: How are people gonna reinforce windows and doors?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: How are people gonna reinforce windows and doors?
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 1:11am
Hi gang i know this has been touched on before,but has anyone thought anymore on how to reinforce windows and doors?
I have toyed with the idea of putting wood sheeting up at the windows but i dont think its gonna be good enough as basically if and when the SHTF wood sheet aint gonna stop anyone let alone an angry mob with weapons like axes and glass bottles full of fuel.And the only thing i can think of for the doors is more locks.I know you can go down the really expensive route and get metal shutters,but i would have to save for that and i may need the protection sooner rather than later.



Replies:
Posted By: RICHARD-FL
Date Posted: May 17 2008 at 2:05pm
In the State of Florida we use metal shutters due to hurricanes.  A new material;  a type of cloth has turned out be be even better then metal shutters.  It came out 2 years ago.
 
That is the best anyone can do. 
 
I think you would want to become unnoticed vice a sitting target.  Why let everyone know you are even home. 
 
What do you think?
 
RICH-FL


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"...No man is an island on to himself..." Words to remember

RICHARD-FL


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: May 21 2008 at 10:06pm
Looked at Armor Cloth and another brand it will block wind and rain and a flying 2x4 but it will not protect your family in a crisis situation.

Metal shutters too expensive!

I too am looking for a good solution to this problem. I saw on this Fourm or another place a suggestion that is to use the wire fenceing that is used to keep animals out of your garden. You can buy it in 150 foot rolls. I just have not figured out how to secure this to the window frame. It gives some protection from thrown items and yet lets in the light.

Anything you put on your windows will cause people to look but it may give some protection.

I am going to measure my windows lower and upper floors to figure out how many rolls of this I will need and figure how to attach.

I will also use these measurements to figure how many wood sheets I will need to cover windows that are broken and if needed to protect my home.

I will not purchase wood until BF is real close.

It will be my last resort because I do not want to be in a totally dark house...talk about going crazy!!

Hope someone has a better solution than I have.

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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: fab4
Date Posted: May 22 2008 at 6:58pm
I bought some window film, 8 mils thick.  It's really tough.  Someone could break through it but it would take several wacks.   It also will be slightly more effective at stopping a fire bomb, i.e., molotov cocktail or something.
 
Anything that slows them down is good.
 
Another thing we plan to do is to buy pre cut metal bars, take 2 2x4s, drill holes in them and install the bars in a way that has one 2x4 on top and one on the bottom.  Then this would be installed in the windows. 
 
I also had the idea of using sections of iron/aluminum fence panels for bars, but they're expensive too.
 
Under the windows, in the bushes I plan to loop barb wire
 
All this doesn't make things bullet proof though if someone is shooting at us.  We have sandbags on hand and we will fill them with earth and gravel and stack them inside a few feet up for a little extra protection.
 
For doors, I heard someone suggest putting in hooks on either side (into studs) and drop a 2x4 in them to go across the door.  DH want's to buy the heavy bars that slide down into the floor.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: May 22 2008 at 10:01pm
Gee at least your husband will consider some of these things! My hubby has limits as to how far I can go and window stuff is way out of sight now.

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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: fab4
Date Posted: May 23 2008 at 10:00pm
Yeah, well, he humors me!   The best we've got here is that he's agreed we can have the stuff on hand to make these things, as long as they're cheap... but we won't be building anything until things get bad.
 
DH is not totally on board yet.  He's not dismissing it but not sold either.  But all these movements by the govt (buying supplies, local workshops, etc) have him thinking.  Plus some well-respected friends of his are starting to talk about BF and he's coming home with their thoughts.  Of course i may have said the same thing a few weeks earlier but what do I know I'm just the wife LOLLOLLOL
 
Did I mention I love my DH!
 
My teenager is sold, though, and he usually disagrees with me on everything!  So he's great at helping me prep.
 
As long as we have the materials to build with, I feel better.  I hope we'll never need it Cry
 
 


Posted By: Mike-Hz
Date Posted: June 07 2008 at 1:23pm
I got this idea from some TV show about drug dealers.

They used cyclone fencing.

If you wrapped it around the outside (over windows and entries), it would send a message and would make a racket if someone was trying to break in.

The drug dealers wanted to be more discreet, so they wrapped it around the inside of the perimeter walls and reinforced it. The building turned out to be extremely difficult to enter when they tried to execute a search warrant.

Even in the bleakest of times cyclone fencing can be "acquired" most anywhere.

Mike-Hz


Posted By: Dr.Who
Date Posted: January 18 2009 at 8:14pm
The windows don't need to be any stronger than the walls. If you live in a wood frame house why would you have steel windows if people could just go through the wall? Now, if you had brick walls then making windows only as impregnable as a wood frame wall might be insufficient.

Two by fours screwed into the frame with very long screws would be stronger than the wood frame walls. Though that would not stop bullets from going through the cracks between the boards (in either direction). I suppose one could put the boards right next to each other with no cracks.

Glass block mortared into the frame would be about as strong as a brick wall and would let in light while reducing the ability to know what one was looking at when looking through it. Though that sounds kind of expensive.

Doors however usually just have a bolt that goes into a very flimsy piece of wood in the frame. It is very easy for people to just hit the knob with a five pound sledge and viola. You either need a steel frame or you need a bold that goes into the floor.

I prefer to just not tell people that I have anything of value in my home and to not make my home look inviting.

Maybe just a large quarantine sign. And if people are not afraid of the avian flu then maybe they would be afraid of ebola virus or bubonic plague.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 26 2009 at 4:38pm
Bricks and boards don't stop bullets either, especially not cinderblocks.
 
I can shoot through most trees (besides a BIG oak or the extremely hard ones) with my AR15. A .308 weapon would totally demolish bricks, boards, or anything else you tried to put up to stop it, except maybe 1 inch springsteel!
 
If you're expecting pistols (this applies to cityfolk) very thick boards might save you for a while, but I say be prepared for a rifle.


Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: February 14 2009 at 9:17pm
How do burglar proof your windows.
http://www.preparedness.com/howtoburyour1.html - http://www.preparedness.com/howtoburyour1.html
 
How to burglar proof your doors.
http://www.preparedness.com/howtoburyour.html - http://www.preparedness.com/howtoburyour.html
 
I'm worried about bullets coming through walls, but don't know how to prevent this.  We plan to get plywood really soon to put up on the inside of our walkout basement windows & patio door.  We have grates over the window wells with chains that we can unlock at the bottom of the window.  We have a security door over our front door, but our windows & patio doors are the weakest point.
 
Fire is also a concern, but there is no way to prevent every possibility.
 
I just hope that society doesn't break down this badly, but fear that it might given the severe economic situation that we're in.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 6:32am
Reastically there's not a lot you're going to be able to do about rifle bullets.

My advise: get out of the city. Get several dogs, they're the best alarm possible. That way your surprise is dogs barking before gunshots.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 10:09am
 if you have a basement you may need to retreat to there.  If you come under fire from that sport of firepower you will need to consider other alternatives.  even a well built house isn't gonna withstand determined attack from modern weapons.

  i suggest you consider the possibilities that your home can withstand and plan for those eventualities.  for a low profile defense you might consider putting wood or other materials INSIDE your home instead of outside the windows  you can put up curtains so the home appears normal from outside.  don't leave anything outside that will be an indicator of "wealth" or goodies inside.  no bikes or other coveted items.

  reinforcing from the inside will also conceal from your neighbors what you are doing and the true extent of your concern.  remember that not all of your neighbors are gonna be nice folks and may afford a danger vector that you don't expect.


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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: rodburner
Date Posted: June 09 2009 at 5:13am
I was trained and taught by the military that retreat or an escape may be the only way to stay alive to be able to protect youself and loved ones. leaving your home will be a hard thing to do, but living another day and knowing that you are still able to help defend youself and maybe returning later is better than being killed for mere possesions. I also agree that the stupitity of people is limitless.


Posted By: Buz
Date Posted: June 11 2009 at 10:53am
Bullet proofing may be accomplished by building a 2X4 frame and covering it with plywood on both sides.  Then fill the center with  granite gravel.  1 to 2 inch stone will be fine.  A 4 by 8 foot panel filled with this will weigh about a ton and will stop most rifle (up to 30-06) and all pistol rounds.  Place them inside the home up against the outside walls.   Cheap to build.

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I know a lot, but nobody knows everything.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: June 11 2009 at 11:10am
unfortunately this will probably destroy your home by itself!

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:19am
Hey Buz, a friend of mine, and possibly the single most prepared person I've ever encountered had this exact same idea.
 
I put twenty .308 rifle bullets into it with an M14 rapid fire and it stopped them all. He then put five or six more .308's, my .40 Glock, and a magazine or two from my .44 magnum Desert Eagle into it and again it stopped them all. I was actually surprised. we didn't change panels either, same one over and over. I expected it to
 
Then we ate, and his wife is a wizard at the helm of a kitchen!


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:11pm
   How far apart where the panels (by that I mean how much space was filled with gravel)? If you use 2X4s you could turn them either way, but I should imagine the 4" route would be prohibitively heavy. 

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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 2:30am
When the friend of mine did it he had the four inch being the side of the box... the box was four inches deep x appx 20 inches across x 24 inches high. Closed on three sides. It wasn't so heavy that I couldn't pick the box up myself. I'm fairly large, and strong, but I'm not a burly monster.
 
Oops I forgot to end a sentence in my last post. Here goes: I expected it to fail instantly, or the back to be blown out and get penetration, but they wouldn't get through. I sent ten 147 grain ball bullets against it and ten 150 AP. The AP with penetrators wouldn't even get through. We started having fun with trying to mess it up, but nothing we sent against it had the oomph to break through. I'm sure a .50BMG would zip through, but there really isn't anything around that'll stop that kind of firepower short of purpose built structures. If you're facing someone armed with a gun like that, your best bet is to run him out of ammo. You can only carry so many shots of .50.


Posted By: knowahhh
Date Posted: June 16 2009 at 9:30am
has anyone given much thought to leaving home and setting up camp in isolated area. I have also thought of securing home, however just leaving and camping with like minded folks may be less terrorizing to me...


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 6:28am
Therein lies the problem KnowAhhh, you and everyone else has this grand idea that you're going to somehow get out of the city with moments to spare and find yourself camping with like minded people, or escape to your cabin that you've got stocked. Unfortunately that's probably not going to happen.
 
In the case of just about any disaster be it Disease, asteroid, supervolcano, etc, people are all going to go straight from normal to panic mode, jump in their car with the kids and several bags of crap, and hit the road to escape the city that's about to burn itself from the inside out. All of them are going to do this simultaneously in a Katrina esque exodus. Here's where it gets tough...
 
If it's a disaster where people don't think rule of law is going to be restored immediately post disaster, which pretty much means any kind of disaster there are going to be those that are going to prey on the weak. The question is would you rather face badguys in your car that will probably be trapped in gridlock, or in your home. I personally would choose my home, even though it's in a major metropolitan area. Cars don't provide much concealment and almost no cover, particularly when stranded and full of those I care about.
 
If you already live in a small town, AWESOME! That's where you'll have the best chance of surviving any kind of catastrophe. Small towners have protection, typically protect each other, are usually near farmland, and they usually store food.
 
Your idea of going to a place where you can "camp" or whatever sounds appealing, but what kind of people are the "like minded" you're talking about? If it's a hippy commune or some peacenik commune you're thinking about, it'll just be a matter of time before someone with a gun and no conscience victimizes them, and you.
 
On my scale of those that are best off to worst off, best being first:
1. Small towners.
2. Farmers, or those far enough away that you're out of mob attack distance.
3. Suburbanites. Most of these people are fat and rich, AKA, easy pickings. They're the ones that can't afford to abandon their cat (No offense) however many of them are armed and third/fourth tier suburbanites are close to small town status that they might get by, by not allowing outsiders in.
4. City dwellers. Cities would be totally out of food within a week, potable water after five days, and on fire after two weeks. The people that would be left after three weeks in a city without electricity, food and water are either zombies or true survivors. I can only imagine the horrors that one would encounter in a city scenario like that, and would not want to be part of it.
 
The best advise I can give you is: Have a gun, be proficient with it. It doesn't matter if it's bolt action, level, or semi auto, a gun can feed you, cloth you, and best of all, protect you! Even without firing a shot, if someone even has the inkling that you might be armed, they're going to think twice before attempting to take you on.


Posted By: knowahhh
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 7:32am
good point you ,made to my post.. I am lucky because i already live in the country. it is very rural, and i am getting a street sweeper. I guess there is no time for learning great marksmanship now.. It just feels so lonely, noone will listen to me.. So i have stopped talking about it and just am quietly preparing... yes i guess the idea of leaving home is not really too smart.. thanks for reply.. take care


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 11:24am
A street sweeper is a Destructive device controlled by the BATFE. You'll need a Tax Stamp and a background check before you can legally own it in the U.S. Good luck!
 
(Also they're extremely unweildy, heavy as hell, and not a great choice as far as shotguns go. In my opinion you'd be far better served with a Saiga 12, Remington 1100/1187, or go for the pimpinest shotgun ever, a Benelli M3. Just my opinion and advise, take it or leave it.)


Posted By: knowahhh
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 5:47pm
Hey i appreciate the advice. I am a nurse not a weapons expert. lol. My nephew thinks a 9 gauge shotgun, he has a glock, and unlike me can shoot very accurately. So my big question, how the hell do we keep one foot in this reality and one in the not too distant future of hell.. just a question...


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: June 18 2009 at 6:07pm
i have most of the "social" type shotguns you can get today and i would suggest either a Remington 870 pump or a siaga 12.  the saiga is of course an akm in 12 gauge and can be reloaded quickly by way of conventional box mags, and the 870 is a very simple and reliable pump action of venerable design.

  if you want something more versatile you might consider a decent rifle of military derivation.  and ak or ar is a pretty good choice, but the ar is generally more accurate and is pretty reliable with minimal maintenance.  with the obamunists in power the prices for everything are up right now.  with a firearm in the modern world, hits count and everything else doesn't!

  don't worry too much about volume of fire as making shots count.  sooner or later you will have to account for all those projectiles!


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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: Buz
Date Posted: June 19 2009 at 11:00am
Sorry it has been so long since I logged in.   Regarding my initial suggestion on bullet proofing you home I did not mean that the panels should be placed 8 ft. high and 4 ft. wide.  Lining your exterior walls thusly would certainly be too much weight unless your home is on a poured concrete slab.  Most conventional wooden homes are built with floor joists (2 X 10 placed on 16 inch centers) and windows sills are usually about 33 inches from the floor.  Under those conditions you ought to consider making your 2 X 4 bullet barriers about 33 inches high (up to the height of your windows) and 8 ft. long.  These panels will weigh somewhat less than 1500 lbs. and unless you live in a trailer Detpat your home shouldn't be jeopardized.


If you come under attack of course it might be wise to move around inside your home below the height of your panels where you are protected.  Then, making sure it is darker inside than it is outside (so you can.t be seen) locate the shooter and then take appropriate action.

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I know a lot, but nobody knows everything.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 20 2009 at 3:09am
Detpat, I like the Saiga and own one myself, it's just that without the piston cap mod it wasn't 100 percent reliable. Sometimes I'd get a short stroke, bolt over shell. Got the new plug and now I'd take it with me to the gates of hell, but right off the rack, I dunno.
 
The 870 has been kicking arses since the dawn of shotguns.
 
As always Pat and I are in total agreement that an AK or an AR is the most versatile, and best choice for a social rifle.
 
Knowahhh a 9 gauge shotgun must be extremely, shoulder destroying, powerful! There actually is no such thing at this time, though there might have been at some point in time. The lower the number goes, the more powerful a shotgun is. A Twelve Gauge is the standard shotgun, the sixteen and twenty gauges are smaller and smaller respectively (Mostly made for small people, kids, or close hunting) and then there's the 410 gauge shotgun which is very small and I could only really see it used for very small birds, squirrels, or rabbits. The most powerful shotgun I ever fired was a ten gauge, three and a half inch magnum double barrel, and we were shooting slugs. That damn thing HURT. It is an experience I do not want to revisit. A twelve gauge is more than enough power for any human.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: June 20 2009 at 8:40am
mine was reliable out of the box, guess i got lucky............no, really........it has happened!

  I've seen 2 gauge guns, punt guns really and not meant to fire from the shoulder.

  12's are good, teh 16 is almost a thing of the past.


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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: ME163
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 6:07am
I have a tarus pistol that works well and a 270 mossburg bolt action rifle and a sks rifle. I also have a 12 gauge shotgun. So I am equiped for the worst. But my favorite is the G3. It really kicks ass and yes it does use standard nato ammo. In my situation, we really have to do some work on the self protection line. We have rented a storage unit in a town nearby so we can hide some of our stuff.



Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 23 2009 at 10:02am
I too am a fan of the G3, it's just that .308 is unbelievably expensive right now. I simply can't justify paying nearly $600 for a thousand rounds when the exact same stuff was $120/1000 less than a year ago.
 
OOps, brb,


Posted By: DISPENSER4HIRE
Date Posted: August 06 2009 at 9:26pm
If you assume society will not break down into a shooting situation in your neighborhood overnight.  You can stock up on sandbags, poly bags, or whatever they call them in your area. Build a LARGE sandbox for your kids, or keep an area of your yard well tilled.
If, or when you need to bullet proof your home, sand, or dirt is a very good bullet stop.
Depending on how many people you have in your home, and what shape you are in, sandbags could be filled, and stacked inside or out, up to the bottom of windows to provide protection, in a relatively short time. You most likely would not have to do it all at once, if things are getting bad, start filling, and stacking.


Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 8:14pm
3M sells a security film for windows that makes it very difficult for someone to break the glass.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 8:23pm
i understand the film works very well too!

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: Colonel
Date Posted: April 16 2013 at 8:47am
Look into using CrimSafe security screens. We had them installed on all windows and doors last year, and they are exactly what we wanted. My concern was someone or group being able to rush the house, smash through a window or door and get in before we had time to react. That's not going to happen now. Any barrier can be breached given enough time, but there would be quite a stack of bodies outside before anyone managed to get through here.

A huge benefit to this system is that it is very aesthetically attractive. It looks like regular window and door screens, only a bit darker. You don't stand out as a high value target, and unless the bad guys do some careful planning and testing, they will be completely unprepared for what they find.

Another benefit - they meet the Miami-Dade hurricane specs, and they qualify us for a very nice discount on your homeowners insurance.

The down side? They are expensive - no way around that part. But look at it this way - it's our house. What will be worth more a few years from now - a secure home or Federal Reserve Notes?

Highly recommended.

http://crimsafe.com.au/


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 16 2013 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Colonel Colonel wrote:

Look into using CrimSafe security screens. We had them installed on all windows and doors last year, and they are exactly what we wanted. My concern was someone or group being able to rush the house, smash through a window or door and get in before we had time to react. That's not going to happen now. Any barrier can be breached given enough time, but there would be quite a stack of bodies outside before anyone managed to get through here.
 
Links banned at work here...
 
Are those stab/cut resistant?
 
Proof against someone japping a 2x4 through the screen? If someone jabs a board through the screen and then tears it part it's better than nothing, but not 100% secure.
 
Found a domestic link that worked. I'd be interested in checking that stuff out myself.


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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley


Posted By: quietprepr
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 3:07pm
I only need to slow them down for a minute or so...

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"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming


Posted By: rickster58
Date Posted: May 02 2013 at 9:11pm
I have crimsafe doors and window screens on my lower floor and can attest to their strength for blunt force strikes.
Don't know how they'd go against bullets though.
 
They are made from .09mm Structural Grade 304 stainless steel woven like mesh. The website has all the testing info.



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