Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Survival Supplies |
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Johnray
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 03 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 1:52pm |
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There has been alot of talk on this board about what to store for survival. I can simpllify this problem for everyone. You can live indefinitly on beans and rice and a little cooking oil or lard. For water,the best thing to do is to have a "Big Berky" water filter or two or three of them. The advantages to having a Big Berky water filter to storeing large amounts of water is that the water filter is easy to move if you should have to move for one reason or another and you can always find a source of water unless you live in a dessert. The "Big Berky" will make just about any water safe to drink. Another thing that I should comment on is that besides the Pneunmonia shot that every one has been talking about is that every one should also have a hepatitis A vaccine and hepitatis B vaccine and a current tetnus shot. Also the Pneumo Vac 23 that has already been cover. The key to surviveing any situation is to not get sick. You are better off to pass up water of unknown quality than to drink bad water and get sick. If you get sick in a surviaval situation{regardless of the Bird Flu} you are probably going to die. If everyone stays home during a Bird Flu Ppandenmic,we will all be in a survival situation. Johnray
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Concerned Physician
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Thank you doctor! We are glad to have you here.
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CupcakeMom
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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If I had to live in a "dessert" I would pick strawberry shortcake. At least there probably wouldn't be any bf in there.
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Johnray
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 03 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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There is Bird Flu in the dessert of Turkey,Algeria andIraq. Johnray
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Concerned Physician
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Johnray
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 03 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Important,read the supplies post that I made. It is real and it will work and it is cheap. Johnray
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Concerned Physician
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bruss01
Adviser Group Joined: January 12 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Assuming one doesn't die of scurvy or develop rickets or one of many other nutritional deficiencies, yes. BTW, I have heard that pine needles, steeped in boiled water, make a tea which contains enough vitamin C to prevent scurvy. Broccoli also contains vitamin C, and is a frost-hardy vegetable that grows in northern climates and will continue to bear throughout the growing season after a single planting. Vitamin and mineral supplements are probably a good investment.
Having a water filter is a wise investment. I have a more modest setup, a First Need water filter, which will remove almost any conceivable harmful agent from the water. It is lightweight for backpacking (I do a bit of backpacking for recreation) and is hand pump-driven, but can be gravity fed as well. Johnray, does the Berkey filter depend on a pressurized water supply? My concern is that if power is out for extended periods, no water will be able to be pumped into the city mains. That means it will stop flowing out of my tap. I do not live in the desert, I am surruouded by trees and shrubs and grass, but from April until October there is no rainfall here (Sacramento CA) and temps soar into the 100's on a regular basis. There is a river within 1 or 2 miles of where I live, but if the streets are full of looters, thugs, and feral dogs, and gas stations are closed, it might as well be the far side of the moon. I won't be making trips twice a week to the river for water thru a hostile environment if I can help it during a crisis with no end in sight. It may come to that - but the risk of dehydration will have to surpass the risk of catching the flu or running afoul of National Guard Forces enforcing curfew/quarantine or the risk having a potentially injurious or costly encounter with looters first. Since I can't count on rainfall, and the water table is too deep to simply dig a simple open well by hand, I will need to have a sizeable amount of storage water on hand to cover contingencies. I currently have two poly 55 gallon barrels, in addition to my 15 gallon "Crystal Geyser" bottled water stash for immediate use. I'm expecting to lay in an additional 2 barrels next month. I have 2 pounds of calcium hypochlorite (dry bleach aka swimming pool chlorination) because it stores virtually indefinitely versus liquid bleach which loses half it's potency after a year and is virtually worthless after two years. You can get this at any pool supply store - be sure to get plain calcium hypochlorite with no anti fungal or anti algae chemicals added. This will make over 100,000 gallons of drinkable water, whether clear or cloudy. Cost: around $12. This will be valuable even if water continues to flow thru the pipes after the municipality has exhausted its limited supply of chlorine for water treatment. Boiling water will purify it, yes, but that takes energy. If power is out and/or natural gas supplies are disrupted, quantities of fuel for cooking will be limited. A bit of Calcium Hypochlorite is cheaper and easier to store than the same amount of fuel needed to purify that much water. Water is the one essential that we can last the least length of time without. Prudence dictates that we have as many redundant supplies of this essential as possible. Edited by bruss01 |
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Tip of the Day
Radio Shack sells an inexpensive am/fm radio that runs on power from a hand crank built into it. I have one at home, works like a charm. A minute of cranking gives you about 30-minutes of power. A dandy device and evironmentally friendly. |
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Mirage
Experienced Member Joined: February 06 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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If you have a pressure cooker with a copper tube attached to the top and you live in close proximity to the ocean, sea water can be distilled to make it potable. There were also kits available for this purpose (at one time). In an emergency, the condensation on the lid of any pan of boiling water can be collected by offsetting the lid and collecting the water which drips off, yielding distilled water. Further passing questionable water through some layers of charcoal might be beneficial if required in your area. How to boil water? On a wood stove or wood-fired barbecue. It might also be worthwhile to investigate the local water table and obtain necessary equipment to install a well and pump (hand pump). In some areas of the Northeast, the water can be reached just 3-4 feet down. |
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I like your post on rice and beans. I was starting to panic about having enough food for myself and family no one hear is jus t olanning for themselves we all got at least on non planner on our list. What I then realized is best to go back for the basics rice and beans first extra for family. I have enough cans for two months for two months but csn strech it too six with rice and beans plus vitamins. Rice is a baisc is most parts of the world rice and chick peas plus spices and blackeyed peas canned beans. I will buy enough rice and beans for a year then go back for the extras
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Johnray
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 03 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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More on beans and rice and cooking oil. When the UN trucks the large amounts of food that you see on the TV News to large amounts of staving people,the bags in the trucks are full of Beans and Rice and Cooking Oil or Lard. This is the most balanced diet that can be delivered for each dollars spent and the starveing people do well on it. Some other items might be good for a change or for luxury but this is all that is necessary. All you have to do is keep it dry. It requires no refrigeration to keep for years. Johnray
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Concerned Physician
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Our core group of food is based on pinto beans and rice in 25# bags. We also have numerous smaller bags of various types of peas, navy beans, butter beans etc. We also have alot of dry noodles, to include cheese filled tortilini. We grow tomatoes, peppers, squash, onions okra, and CORN every Summer. I second beans and rice for the main core group of foods. Add to it as you can with additional foods. In many countries beans and rice are all that is given as aid - this is my first hand view. I have traveled North Africa, was attached to the 143rd Sudanese Ranger Battalion in the 80s, I also went on a mission trip to Haiti in the Mid 80s. Beans and rice will support you for along time. 25#s rice less than $4.00 and 25#s beans less than $10.00 at Sams Club. Probably the same or cheaper at Costco's |
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zumble
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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You might want to make sure you're using brown rice, as it is far more nutritious. And throw in several large bottles of vitamins.
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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Hi, You're right about brown rice being more nutritious but it goes rancid much,much more quickly than white rice. If you want to store brown rice you should definitely keep it in the freezer. All rice I bring into my house goes in the freezer for at least 2 weeks anyhow to kill all the possible critters and eggs. BTW the cheapest 25# bag of rice I found at costco was $6.49, I was there today. However, you can buy a 50# bag for only 2-3 dollars more than that. I didn't want to give myself a hernia so I settled for the 25# bag. I wanted to buy a bottle of beano but boy is that stuff expensive! I think it might really be a must have item though with all the beans and rice being consumed. ( Not really our usual diet around here.) I am new here so I hope it was O.K. to stick my 2 cents in. Also, I like Emer'gen-C drinks for the vitimin C(1,000mg plus some B's), there is always one flavor on sale usually and if you think you will be feeding a small group then the large (#10 can) at costo of sliced peaches are a really good deal at $3.49 a can and had a pretty decent shelf life for wet packed. Best of luck.
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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libbyalex
Adviser Group Joined: December 20 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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welcome Fritz. RE Brown rice: I have stored brown rice in pails with mylar bags and oxygen absorbers (all of which you can get at www.survivalacres.com or www.beprepared.com. The rice I stored for Y2K (don't laugh) is still fine! -- Libby
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trisharp
Valued Member Joined: January 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Can anyone here help with a estimate on the number of N95 masks one should have on hand per person. Just trying to get a feel for what target to go for in quantity. A good place to buy these is at automotive stores.
Thanks.
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trisharp
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Buy as many N95's as you can. My wife just chewed me out for getting more masks . If its not that, its something else - you can't win. There are some very smart folks here, that can address the specifics of your question. Mask use will be contigent on your exposure risks. The masks should say "surgical mask". I'm using 3M. Your mask should say somewhere ", NIOSH Approved:N95 (At least 95% filtration efficiency). Be suspicious if they are not NIOSH approved, or the price is too good to be true. The mask is your most important second line of defense outside of physcial isolation. Shucks, I've spent more on a vacation than for my post-apocalyptic larder. If you check that latest developments, Tuesday Feb 7/06, you might conclude that the masks will soon be very hard to obtain. My 2-cents. ------ Project Title: Development of Reusable Facemasks for Use During an Influenza Pandemic "The first issue to be addressed in the report concerns measures that can be taken that would permit the reuse of disposable N95 respirators in healthcare settings." " In the event of an extended pandemic, there will be the inevitable increasing demand by the public for masks, which cannot be met by the current, or even ramped-up U.S. production of disposable masks." The project is sponsored by the U.S. Department of Health and Human ServicesThe approximate start date for the project is January 4, 2006" http://www4.nationalacademies.org/webcr.nsf/ ProjectScopeDisplay/HSPX-H-06-01-A?OpenDocument] http:// www4.nationalacademies.org/webcr.nsf/ProjectScopeDisp lay/HSPX- H-06-01-A?OpenDocument P.S. The mask does not keep out the virus, only the waterdroplet it rode in on 95% of the time. Edited by Rick |
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trisharp
Valued Member Joined: January 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Rick,
Thank you very much. What I have does say NIOSH approved N95 by North but does not say "surgical mask". I also have a box from 3M. I assume the North masks are the same thing. Is this a safe assumption?
As log as they say NIOSH and N95? I am a little concerned now....I only have a 40 pc. supply and there are three in my immediate family. Going to get more. I am paying around $20 for a box of 20.
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trisharp
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I have been getting my masks from here http://www.mfasco.com/ Good prices and good customer service. I too wonder how many masks are enough. I have a family of three, I currently have 80-N95's/ 20-N-100's all with exhalation valve. I have been told that the average life of a mask is 100-150 hours, which varies according to the enviroment you are in, dusty,etc.
I have been told you can take off your mask with gloves off course, wipe it down with a antiseptic wipe, place in a ziploc for storage and wear it again. Does anyone know if this will work? |
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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Hi Libby. Thank you for the warm welcome! I wasn't sure that there was any long term storage prep. because non was mentioned. I have 2 25# bags in a freezer in my garage and the rest is in #10 cans from BP.com. I am a frequent shopper there and have been since 2001. I am a group of one (and looking for group members - I live in Northern NJ) I love their group specials and dealing with the people there is always a pleasure. I have never been disappointed by them. I have not tried the other site you recomended but will check them out. I have been doing too.... much spending lately on preps and definately have to get a grip! The helter skelter state of the world is definitely having a stressful, negative impact on me. I have tried for years to try to get others to prep but to no avail. Very frustrating. As for masks, I have 10 N100 masks and 100 N95 masks in my possession and 60 more on order, 40 have been shipped as of today from allheart.com. At first they e-mailed me a ship date of April '06 then a week later most are on their way! I really like this company as well. I also have 50 fluid resistant surgical masks that I know do not protect the wearer however, they were so cheap and maybe a good idea for those who are symptomatic (offering additional protection for the caregiver who would definately need an N95 or 100) or for all quarentined to wear the first 2 weeks of quarintine before symptoms would possibly surface. Actually, I have been prepping for several years now so I do not plan on going out at all. I do not see what will be the reason to go outside. If TSHTF and TEOTWAWKI ensues, sheltering in place is definitely the way to go. The reason I have so many masks is because I will be sending about half of them up to my son who is in college in Boston. I know he would never wear one if all of his friends didnt have one so they could be protected as well so I have to supply enough for all his frat buddies and then some. I also will not be able to bunker down without him, just not an option for me, so getting him home will be my only priority which is why I am so concerned about having adavanced warning giving my husband(most likely)enough time to go get him and any others he wants to bring (maybe those kids who live too far away to get home). I am putting together a package for him with masks, cash (& quarters for old fahioned pay phones), instructions on what to do(in case no comm. avail) and some supplies ie.water box, nuts and energy bars. Has to be small though or he will complain. He does hate to hear me talk about what may happen (who wants to hear about the end of the world when you're young and just starting out in life?) but I am learning that 95% of what I say does sink in and makes a bigger impression than I first thought. Well, sorry if I rambled, thanx. I am currently working with leaders in my community to start talking about making plans for any disaster including BF but it has been a long time just to get to this point. I hope we have another year to get it together but I just don't know at this point. My fingers are crossed.
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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'What I have does say NIOSH approved N95 by North but
does not say "surgical mask". I also have a box from 3M." Good, AS LONG AS IT SAYS NIOSH APPROVED. 3M are my favorite. |
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caver
Experienced Member Joined: January 12 2006 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Beans….the wife and I can’t seem to decide if to stock up on beans or
not. Cheap, and as JohnRay says, with rice and oil they help make up a
reasonable diet. Our concern is the amount of energy/fuel it takes to
cook dry beans. Simmering for 3 to 4 hours will bun a LOT of fuel. Even
if we have electric power, but are sheltering at home, there will be no
income to pay the electric bill. We are fortunate not to have a
mortgage (house paid off), but I see the need to conserve so as to keep
the bill collectors away.
Any though on beans vs. energy?? Edited by caver |
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pola33193
Valued Member Joined: January 10 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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Caver , when you go to the grocery store , go to the can beans , I don't know how much variety you have where you live , but there is a brand called GOYA ,that has beans already cooked and seasoned , they are really good !
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pola
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caver
Experienced Member Joined: January 12 2006 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Thanks for the reply pola-
Already WELL stocked with 6 to 9 months of canned goods. Just looking to add some dry long term rations. Tim |
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Proudest Monkey
Adviser Group Joined: January 17 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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Caver, You have the same concern that I do, "Our concern is the amount of energy/fuel it takes to cook dry beans. Simmering for 3 to 4 hours will run a LOT of fuel." Dried beans take a very long time to cook, and you would need a lot of fuel to cook beans. I just placed an order to Emergency Essentials, and I decided on lentils instead. Lentils do not take very long to cook, and they are very nutritious. When I buy supplies, I always think in terms of no electric power available to cook. Edited by Proudest Monkey |
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trisharp
Valued Member Joined: January 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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I agree that this is an issue (the amount of energy used) but one way to cut down on the time is to soak the beans overnight in water. This really cuts down on the cooking time. While the power is still on two other options are pressure cooker and crock pot.
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trisharp
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caver
Experienced Member Joined: January 12 2006 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Mr. Proud Monkey-
I'll take a deeper look at lentils. Thanks! I understand the option for cooking with power, we were looking at beans as a long term storage item, to be used after all the can, quality freezed dried, etc is gone. Growing up in the South, dired pinto beans was a regular item on the table. I just remember mother cooking them for half a day. Sure were good! Edited by caver |
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bruss01
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bruss01
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Edited by bruss01 |
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TNbebo408
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Cooking dry beans, you can soak them overnight, before cooking, lets them absorb the water without using heat.
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Johnray
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TNbebo408 is exactly right. I live in West Virginia and pinto beans has always been one of the foods that we eat everyday and we have basically all of my life. The people who are worried about the amount energy that it takes to cook dry beans just read the above post. You can soak any kind of bean or lentil all night and then bring them to a boil the next day and then let them cool off and eat them. I will admit that the longer you cook them,the better they are but they are still good. You can fix a large pot and have enough for 3 or 4 days with no more cooking unless you want to. Another thing that I have done many times is to takes the beans after they are a few days old and make bean sandwiches and they are good. Anothing that you can do if you have a Dutch Oven is to build a fire outside and then just set the Dutch Oven on top of the fire and let it set there for as long as you want or all day or all night and let the fire go out. The beans will continue to cook on the coals and the Dutch Oven will retain the heat. When you take the lid off the Dutch Oven,the beans will be so good that you can hardly set still and eat them. There many variations on this method and they all work. Johnray
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Concerned Physician
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Johnray
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I was asked by some one earlier abut the "Big Berkey" water filter. It is gravity feed and it can handle large volumes of water at a rapid rate. The filters are good for about 60,000 gallons, The best thing to do is to just type in "Big Berkey" on the intern and read about it yourself. Practically everyone in this area has one. Johnray
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Concerned Physician
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Tip re: Pressure Cooker
If you use yellow or green split peas, coat them in oil or butter, before cooking, it prevents them from clogging up the steam valve and blowing up. It's a good thing. Edited by Rick |
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Did you know that white rice stores longer then brown rice? I have both but plan to use the brown first and then the white..also you might think of adding to that list corn flour or corn meal..inexpensive and you have a vegatable..I have made some of the corn flour up and mix it with your rice...
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KatDoe67
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There are two types of corn meal. If the nutritious germ has been removed, it stores for a LONG time, just like white flour. If the nutritious germ was ground along with the starchy part, it spoils quickly like whole wheat flour. The corn meal most of us are buying at the grocery store is no more nutritious than all purpose white flour. Kat |
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RicheeRich
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The best price I have found on N95 masks is .39 for each for 3M Model 8000 in quantities of 240 from "Filtera". Their shipping was pretty quick, too. See store.yahoo.com/filtera/3mmod80n95pa.html. By the way, most masks can be re-used after soaking in chlorox/water solution, just make sure they dry out completely in a clean environment. (Disposing of is preferred, though)
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KatDoe67
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If you sprout lentils, they can be eaten raw without cooking as a salad item. You get vitamin c and double the amount of food. I just tried sprouting them this week and was pretty impressed! I can't afford a lot of spices that are often in lentil recipes. I'm going to try making a soup flavored with a few of the following: ketchup, mustard, molasses, vinegar and beef bullion. I've been having a LOT of luck using 2 or more of those ingredients in flavoring a LOT of different dishes. I've also been buying dill pickles in LARGE jars and adding a bit of chopped pickle as a spice to potatoe and egg dishes. This week's goal is trying to learn to use lentils and condiments more efficiently. Kat |
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