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Terrorist Attack London- Again?

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 13 2017 at 11:06pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4601902/Huge-inferno-West-London-tower-block.html

Breaking news - tower in flames -

One panicked resident wrote on Twitter: 'I'm stuck in this block!!! Can't leave my house because I'll die from the smoke'

'Cover your mouth with a wet towel,' they yelled. 'Don't panic. It started on the fourth floor or something. There are people in their windows, putting their heads out.' 

An eye witness said: 'There are about 15 fire engines but are struggling to get in and out because there is just one narrow road in and one narrow road out.'  

Another added: 'Sirens flying up and down the road and police helicopter hovering for nearly 2 hours has been the noise tonight. Terrible.'

Tim Donwie wrote: 'Raging fire near Latimer Road. Whole block of 24 floors up in flames. People still trapped inside. Horrendous.'


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2017 at 11:22pm
Live broadcast

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 2:30am
I doubt it's terrorism, Med - at least from what I'm seeing and reading on the internet. The Daily Mail article you linked to blames it on a possible faulty fridge. Looks more like a tragic accident, and at a time when the Fire Service budget had been severely cut by the conservative government of Teresa May, with over 10,000 firefighters axed in recent years.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.


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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 3:39am
Looks like the refurbishment was to blame for spread of fire,the plastic cladding burnt like paper one witness said,there was also gas pipes put in the stairwell,as part of refurbishment
12 monkeys!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 8:55am
JD- Why pay firefighters when the wealthy need more tax cuts? We have to get our priorities strait!
Buy more ammo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 10:29am
Currently the death toll is 12.  The official line is:  "That is expected to rise."

I have done nothing but watch this unfold all day.  It appears to be a perfect storm:

The building had just been refurbished with plastic cladding to insulate it and to keep it dry.  The cladding had an air gap behind it.  Putting the pieces together, it appears that this combination acted as a venturi, funneling the fire upwards incredibly quickly.

The fire advice to residents was to stay in their homes if a fire broke out.  The fire doors were expected to protect people until the emergency services arrived.  That seemed to be based on the idea that any fire would climb up inside the building - via the stairwell.  The building was originally concrete outside.  It did not take into consideration the plastic cladding which had just been added and the acceleration of its 'handy little chimney' gap.

As if that were not enough.  The fire broke out at about 1 in the morning.  Most people were asleep.

The fire started in a residents flat - not terrorism - fairly low down, on the fourth floor.  The resident whose flat the fire broke out in told this to his neighbor, whom he woke and evacuated.  He said his fridge exploded!  Apparently there had been many power surges in the building recently.

Apparently the fire alarm either did not go off, or was inaudible (same difference) as well.

The flats were home to about 600 people.  I think we can say the death toll will rise - dramatically.

Horrifically, we do not need terrorism to wipe out whole populations.  Apparently the residents had been unsuccessfully campaigning to improve the fire safety of the building.  Tragically, no one was listening.

I am inclined to agree with Arirish on this one.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 11:11am
Dear God! If the cladding was PVC, burning it created hydrogen chloride which added to the moisture in the throat and lungs makes hydrochloric acid! What a horrible way to die!
Buy more ammo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by arirish arirish wrote:

JD- Why pay firefighters when the wealthy need more tax cuts? We have to get our priorities strait!


Sad to think that there are politicians and lawmakers that apparently feel that way.


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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 1:55pm
Which is no excuse to go around shooting people, as in Virginia.

What a filthy mess our world is in!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2017 at 5:02pm
20 dead at last count and: "Expected to rise substantially."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2017 at 3:42am
Well, this morning, they have revised the death toll DOWNWARD to 17 so far.  That (reading between the lines) are just those who jumped to their deaths.  Hundreds more are expected but there are not even reliable lists of residents!

The insulation turns out to have been polyeruethane  foam with a coating of aluminum on the outer side, something like this:

|              |             |          |                  |   Aluminium burns fantastically hotly if an igniter is used.
| building | air gap | foam | aluminium |.  That is a pretty good plan for building a rocket motor.
|              |             |          |                  |   They could have turned it into thermite if the aluminium was powdered.                

The locals are starting to get very angry.  This was the same insulation which was used on the tower block that went up so spectacularly in Dubai and in several other grand fires.

I have just watched a very erudite and expressive Muslim lady raging on screen about the avoidable deaths and how long it took for the bulk of the emergency services to arrive and the inappropriate emergency advice given out.  She recorded everything on her phone, with time stamps.  That might turn out to be particularily damming for some people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2017 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

What a filthy mess our world is in!


I'm never too impressed with the state of the world - the human part anyway - but of late, I've become particularly exasperated at the monumental mess we seem to be making of things.


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2017 at 11:21am
Once again, your yessman mirrors your feelings, JD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2017 at 11:40am
"I'm never too impressed with the state of the world - the human part anyway - but of late, I've become particularly exasperated at the monumental mess we seem to be making of things."

well if Guy McPherson is correct
it will ALL be over soon enough
or the human race will be LOL
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote littlesmile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2017 at 1:27am

I can see this getting out of hand very soon. People are very angry! The police force is very heavy around the area and around hospitals. Over 30 police around the Mayor of London when he spoke to the people and the prime minister is yet to talk to them. My guess is she won't as its too dangerous.

They are trying to hide the fact that around 150 are dead and around 50 are children. No wonder people are angry! Lily Allen (the singer) talked to the news and confirmed that it was getting down played. The media wouldn't broadcast it but you can find it online.

I can see riots soon. People are very angery and do not trust the 'rich' and the media.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote littlesmile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2017 at 8:43am

Protests are starting!
On BBC news..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2017 at 12:24pm
There have been two, NOT ONE - TWO, separate protests in London, and, in a third incident, an angry mob tried to storm the local Council offices.

The people are VERY angry.  They have every right to be!

The cladding had been proven unsafe: it was instrumental in several massive fires in other parts of the world.  "Lessons will be learned." lied the authorities.

The residents knew their building was unsafe but had nowhere else to go.  Their pleas went unheeded.  They were poor folk after all.  They knew they were considered unimportant, they just did not know how much.

The emergency advice was wrong.

The emergency equipment was faulty.

There were no sprinklers.

There were no fire escapes.

There were no contingency plans.

The death-toll is still unknown, though it is estimated to be over 87, and the bodies are so badly burned they may never be identified.

There has been an outpouring of help from the local community, even the very poor thereof - the borough has a mixture of very rich and very poor.  They have donated food, medicines, baby supplies, money, clothes, the use of  rooms in their own private houses and the free use of hotel rooms.  Muslims took donations to the church, Christians to the Mosque, whichever was nearer.  From the Council - nothing yet, not even a reasonable estimate of the death toll, just a litany of excuses like: "All appropriate safety measures were adhered to."  I would call them names, if I could think of any bad enough.

The calousness of the Council and the housing association is monumental.  There is a saying "Heads will roll" I only wish that were actual, not metaphorical.  Never before have I seen it so well deserved, at least not since Hitler or Stalin.

Even the emergency services, who were on the scene within 6 minutes, could not get their equipment right up to the building because of road design.  They were so out of their depth they were having to chose whom to save.  As if the fire itself was not enough to breed nightmares.

They were not worthless, just because they were council tenants.  They were people: people who burned or suffocated to death, or jumped from up to 22 floors up.  (The three seconds of terror as they fell was preferable to the agony of burning.)

I think the whole country is enraged.  Had hubby and I lived in England, we would be sitting on the pavement in London with the other protestors.  This was so deeply wrong!

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2017 at 4:06pm
TO THINK THIS IS 2017.............

anyone would think horrors like would be confined to the 18th century,

corrupt officials, over crowding, buildings that have long since passed their use by dates,

unemployment

last time i was back in the UK i was saddened by the decay,

not the  England i grew up in,

but nowhere is like it was 50 years ago...................
12 monkeys!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2017 at 4:44pm
'And yet we are the 6th richest country in the world.

Corruption, greed, gangs, dishonesty, drugs: Our inner cities are ghastly.  Out here in "the wilds" it is lovely.  Full healthcare, no housing shortage, pleasant (distant) neighbors, some minor poverty but nothing life threatening or massively slanted away from the fair.  

I think overpopulation/overcrowding are to blame for most of the rest.  We are seriously overpopulated and when there are that many people around, they seem to lose their value to each other.   This tiny island has nearly 70 million inhabitants.  Scotland covers about 1/3 of the island and only has 5 million.  Wales covers about 1/4 and is almost as empty.  That means the rest is seriously stuffed, a bit like India and just as squalid.

To accentuate the horrors of the inferno, Kensington - the borough in which the tower block and its relatives housed the poor and unwanted - is the richest borough in the UK.  Most of the disenfranchised accepted this with grace......................  Up until now.  Now they are angry  no, livid  no, bloody enraged!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2017 at 9:57pm
To add insult to injury, the estate where the fire was was among the poorest 10% in all the country, while the general area is one of the richest in the country.  Disparity.


On a different note: I looked at some of the clips of the Queen visiting the area and was shocked by how frail she looked.  There were some lovely pictures of the Queen dressed in blue talking to an old lady in a blue saree.
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