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This contradicts Global Warming |
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Crabby 
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 Topic: This contradicts Global WarmingPosted: July 12 2016 at 9:20pm |
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Instead of looking at the past 100 years or so you need to look back at thousands of years to see the entire picture.
"These Data tells the story quite clear: We are on a down trend in temperatures globally, we should not fear warmth by now." http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Holocene,Historicandrecentglobaltemperatures.pdf |
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Dutch Josh
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Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95227 |
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Posted: July 12 2016 at 9:57pm |
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http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Holocene,Historicandrecentglobaltemperatures.pdf
Crabby, almost all of the data used in this study ends in the year 2000. After 2000 global warming got much stronger. There are lots of measurements from the icecaps, sealevelrise, co2 and methane. I would love to be wrong on climatechange ! But what is wrong with using (fossil) energy much more clever and efficient ? Do a lot more with a lot less energy and leave as much as possible fossil fuels in the ground for the next generations ? In my opinion "we" western people alive now, are consuming goods people in the "poor countries" also are entitled to. We are "eating" the meals of our children so they are facing the problems when we are gone. That is not what I want to leave as a legacy. I am not a scientist, have some background in history, just worried. According to Guy Mcpherson "we are already dead" http://guymcpherson.com/forum/index.php just living on "hopium" based on false ideas. Sam Carana is studying the Arctic http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/. Paul Beckwith is looking at the chemistry as a paleo-climatologist https://paulbeckwith.net/. And there are several other scientists with a convincing story who convince (and alarm) me that there is a climate problem. I am willing to accept that measurements on a larger timeframe is limited (ice measurements, tree rings etc). That even for the last 100 to 150 years data is limited and maybe not always correct. But for the last decades there is enough data (fitting in with studies on earlier stages, mass extinctions etc.) that is showing very clearly in the direction of global warming. Certainly after 2000 the data seems to be very alarming. Crabby, thank you for your attempt to convince me (and others) that there is no problem. Looking at the present facts, heat in most of the arctic, melting glaciers, ice-free arctic, lack of winter, droughts etc. I do see a problem.
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Crabby
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Posted: July 18 2016 at 9:48pm |
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You cannot look at decades or even a few hundred years. Look at the charts.
The earth is actually a bit cooler than times of the past. Also, there's some evidence that the government has changed the monitoring times of this data in order to support the global warming theory. |
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Dutch Josh
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Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95227 |
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Posted: July 19 2016 at 7:17am |
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Crabby, I sure wish that the earth would cool down a bit-looking at Climate reanalyzer is getting shocking!
http://cci-reanalyzer.org/forecasts/#WORLD-CED both Greenland and Antarctica are simply much to warm ! http://cci-reanalyzer.org/forecasts/#WORLD-CED (look at both global temperatures and temperature anomalies ! Parts of Greenland above freezing, above freezing touching Antarctica. Dramatic !) https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/could-the-imminent-us-heat-wave-trigger-a-flash-drought Weather is effecting food production globally.
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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Satori
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Posted: July 20 2016 at 2:41am |
Earth Just Experienced The Hottest June Ever Recordedhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/june-2016-hottest-month_us_578f07f9e4b0f180da639fdf?section= |
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Satori
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Posted: July 20 2016 at 5:14am |
Greenland lost a staggering 1 trillion tons of ice in just four yearshttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/07/19/greenland-lost-a-trillion-tons-of-ice-in-just-four-years/ New Documents Reveal Oil And Tobacco Industries’ Dirty History Of Working Togetherhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oil-tobacco-companies-worked-together_us_5787dab3e4b0867123e04885?section= After documents dating back as far as the 1940s revealed companies coordinated to cover up the industry’s role in climate change, several corporations, including ExxonMobil, now face a fraud probe and mounting public outrage " |
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Crabby
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Posted: July 20 2016 at 6:49pm |
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Take a look and see for yourself, that ice melt is not a problem. This is cyclical. It always has been and will always be.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-20/global-warming-expedition-stopped-its-tracks-arctic-sea-ice |
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Satori
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Posted: July 20 2016 at 9:16pm |
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I'm afraid that does negate all of the other absolutely overwhelming evidence
it's like saying global warming doesn't exist because your standing in front of an open refrigerator or like that idiot Senator Inhofe from Oklahoma who said global warming didn't exist because it was snowing (just happened to be February in Wash DC,WTF ??? snow in the winter??? who knew ??? |
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Crabby
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Posted: July 21 2016 at 11:31pm |
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WOW! I've had several of my posts deleted lately. You're a "senior advisor group" and you're allowed to say WTF? I'm offended and demand that your post be removed immediately. (Actually I don't really care, but I'm just pointing out how the moderators over look certain things from certain people.)
Take the time to read this. http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Holocene,Historicandrecentglobaltemperatures.pdf |
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Satori
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Posted: July 22 2016 at 12:52pm |
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for future reference
the letters "WTF" shall be understood to mean "what the frack"  |
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jacksdad
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Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Posted: July 23 2016 at 8:41am |
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Duh. It's "Williamstown Theatre Festival".
I won't sugarcoat this too much because I don't think it should surprise anyone, but on every single established internet forum with a membership/post count like AFT, there is a perceived difference between seasoned contributors like Satori who take the time to register and post more than a thousand times over the course of several years, and guests who show up to start fights, post inflammatory comments and bleat when they get deleted. While a code of conduct exists for all of us here, the truth of the matter is that if you put in the time, you reap the benefits. If I showed up as a guest on another forum and started ranting and raving from day one, I'd be shown the door pretty quickly on many of them, and there would probably be language a lot harsher than "WTF" involved. That hasn't happened here so maybe it's not the elitist dictatorship you seem to think it is. Just a thought. Sorry, but it's the internet and it's not always nice, and nobody ever said it was a democracy. Being allowed to post whatever you want on a site that someone else pays for isn't an inalienable right, it's a privilege. The truth is that the moderator group deletes posts/spam all the time, and suspends more people on a daily basis than most members realize because it all goes on behind the scenes. It's not a conspiracy by like minded people, because in truth we all have widely differing backgrounds and viewpoints - it's just necessary housekeeping. If you enjoy coming here and not having to wade through multiple threads hijacked by people with their own strange agendas, or seeing endless pitches for fake passports, miracle HIV cures, and counterfeit Rolex watches, then thank the people who put in the time to make it happen. Being a moderator on AFT and committing to keeping it organized and somewhat civil is something we don't take lightly (or get paid for). By the way, sea ice is a whole different thing. Massive amounts of fresh water runoff from melting land ice is likely diluting the oceans and lowering the freezing point of the ocean's surface. It's just a thin crust of seasonal ice that people think is evidence that global warming doesn't exist. The ice under the shelves, and on land masses like Greenland and Antarctica is disappearing fast, and it's only going to get worse. Mitribah, Kuwait just broke the eastern hemisphere's all time temperature record at 129.2 degrees on Thursday, and Basra in Iraq reached 129.0 the next day. Getting toasty out there... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/07/22/two-middle-east-locations-hit-129-degrees-hottest-ever-in-eastern-hemisphere-maybe-the-world/ |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Penham
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Moderator Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14913 |
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Posted: July 23 2016 at 10:52am |
Hahaha, Senator Inhofe....we have some doozies here in OK, to include our Governor Mary Fallin (nick named Mary Failin) |
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CRS, DrPH
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Posted: July 23 2016 at 8:15pm |
Dutch Josh, thanks for your input! For the record....I'm a red-meat, gun-toting Reagan Republican, and have been an environmental scientist since 1981. I used to laugh about climate change (global warming is more accurate), partly because I was taught at University of Illinois that the oceans would be able to absorb all of the anthropogenic carbon dioxide and convert them into carbonates. This was early 1970s. What was unforeseen by the scientific community was the rapid pace of industrialization, particularly by China, and the explosive growth of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere. Greenhouse gases are produced not only by burning coal and gas, but through land development, agriculture (especially cattle) and deforestation. China, India and other countries really have put the hammer down on what we started. The science is not in doubt. Greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation reflected back into space from the earth, and trap the energy. The more gases in the atmosphere, the greater the effect. Same as saying that the more gas you burn on the stove, the quicker the pot will boil. The primary ill effect of global warming upon civilization is violent weather and flooding, which is ravaging many nations. Heat waves and desertification will ruin much of Africa and Asia in fifty years. We could have prevented a lot of this with widespread use of nuclear power and renewable energy, but we have been too slow. Most of us on this forum will be dead before the really bad stuff happens. Our kids and grandkids will have to deal with it. Doesn't matter if you vote for Trump, Clinton or anyone else, I don't see any way to turn this ship around at this point. 129 ºF in the Middle East today. Get ready. < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
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CRS, DrPH
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Technophobe
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Posted: July 24 2016 at 7:09am |
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Though I agree with you, Chuck, I actually have to defend Crabby here (and no, It is not at all personal, you don't want to know my opinion of her). There is a cyclical pattern to warming and cooling of the planet. Just look at Mars, where the current global warming is obviously not due to industrialisation. (Unless you are one of those strange people who believe it inhabited by little green men.)
Where I would disagree with her is, that is not ALL that is going on. We are also interfering with the cycle with our colossal CO2 output. This is a doubly nasty combination! Irrespective of the cause (I do not see us mending our ways any more than I see some unknown force altering the natural cycle.) Anyone who has put a kettle on the stove and watched it rock and listened to it hiss has to realize that the changes in air and water currents will be catastrophic. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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jacksdad
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Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Posted: July 24 2016 at 12:50pm |
I'm in the same camp, Chuck. I think we've passed the tipping point - CO2 got us so far, and now it seems that methane and/or water vapor will be the driving force behind further warming. We (or rather, future generations) are screwed. Because of our ability to adapt, I don't think we'll suffer the same fate as all the other species that will perish because of our selfishness, but I believe that an unprecedented decrease in the human population is looming when food production and access to clean water become an issue. We had it all - abundant energy, food and water, antibiotics, clean air, stable climate - and we squandered it in just a few generations. Nice going  |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Crabby
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Posted: July 24 2016 at 7:48pm |
So, what is your opinion of me? I'm a big girl. I can take it. I'll tell you this. You don't know anything about me and that's a fact. The hypocritical nature of most people is to judge others based on the few insights that we get into their character even though it is far from a complete picture. Isn't that what both the black and white communities do to each other? Both communities judge each other based on the bad examples of the few? Why are you condemning me for doing the same as you appear to do to me? Black people condemn white people all the time for offenses done to them past and present, but white people aren't able to do the same? That's my point. Look at your own hypocrisy. By the way, I never judged you as a person because I don't know you. |
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Dutch Josh
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Posted: July 24 2016 at 9:19pm |
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http://www.voatibetanenglish.com/a/who-global-warming-happening-faster-than-predicted/3430764.html
GENEVA —
The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) reported the first six months of this year have seen all previous global warming records broken.The WMO said 2016 is on track to be the world’s hottest year on record with more heat on the way. According to the World Meteorological Organization, the dramatic, sweeping changes in the state of the world climate is alarming. June was the 14th month in a row of record heat for land and oceans. It also marked the 378th consecutive month with temperatures above the 20th century average. |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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Dutch Josh
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Posted: July 24 2016 at 9:23pm |
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http://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/global-climate-breaks-new-records-january-june-2016
Geneva, 21 July 2016 (WMO) _ Global temperatures for the first six months of this year shattered yet more records, and mean that 2016 is on track to be the world’s hottest year on record. Arctic sea ice melted early and fast, another indicator of climate change. Carbon dioxide levels, which are driving global warming, have reached new highs. Two separate reports from the U.S National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (NASA GISS) both highlighted the dramatic and sweeping changes in the state of the climate. June 2016 marked the 14th consecutive month of record heat for land and oceans. It marked the 378th consecutive month with temperatures above the 20th century average. The last month with temperatures below the 20th century average was December 1984. “Another month, another record. And another. And another. Decades-long trends of climate change are reaching new climaxes, fuelled by the strong 2015/2016 El Niño,” said World Meteorological Organization Secretary-General Petteri Taalas. “The El Niño event, which turned up the Earth’s thermostat, has now disappeared. Climate change, caused by heat-trapping greenhouse gases, will not. This means we face more heatwaves, more extreme rainfall and potential for higher impact tropical cyclones,” said Mr Taalas. Carbon dioxide concentrations have passed the symbolic milestone of 400 parts per million in the atmosphere so far this year. CO2 levels vary according to the season, but the underlying trend is upwards. They showed a surprising increase for the first half of 2016, rising in June 2016 to nearly 407 ppm, 4 ppm greater than June 2015. “This underlines more starkly than ever the need to approve and implement the Paris Agreement on climate change, and to speed up the shift to low carbon economies and renewable energy,” said Mr Taalas. |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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Technophobe
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Posted: July 25 2016 at 3:54am |
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Crabby, Touche!
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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CRS, DrPH
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Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Posted: July 25 2016 at 6:52am |
Hi Crabby!! Thanks for the input. The problem we are facing is that we are trying to make sense of a natural phenomenon on a planetary scale....Earth is damn big! And, all of the systems are interconnected, so that as one part is heated, it drives changes in other parts. Some point out the heavy snowfalls of recent winters in the UK, USA etc. as evidence against global warming. In fact, these are a PRODUCT of global warming!! As the world warms, evaporation from the oceans increases, resulting in heavier precipitation worldwide. Also, the usually reliable Gulf Stream current and Arctic air circulation patterns are starting to act goofy, which we call "climate disruption." I know that many folks don't like the messengers much (Al Gore etc.), and I've long been in that camp. However, the phenomenon is real, and humanity will get screwed. Civilization evolved in a narrow range of comfortable temperatures, we'll soon be outside of our comfort zone. < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
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CRS, DrPH
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Medclinician
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Posted: July 25 2016 at 7:00am |
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This is an interesting and fiery thread and nice to see all the sparks. I will keep plodding along on my and Ice Age is Coming thread - but wanted to say hello here. Having been at this for 4 years now - on like 3 threads on this - and going back 7 years in data - it still looks like if we have a lot of melting and the Gulf Stream dilutes - we are looking at the The Day After Tomorrow. The melting of Greenland (which is happening) and the formation of areas of higher dilution could really mess us up.
Med |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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CRS, DrPH
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Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Posted: July 25 2016 at 1:11pm |
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Where's Kilt2? We could use a Chinese Death Star input about now!! Here's one:
In China alone, more cement was used from 2011 to 2013 than the United States used during the entire 20th century. < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |
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CRS, DrPH
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Satori
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Posted: August 02 2016 at 4:46am |
The Front Lines of Climate Disruption: Alaskans Witness Collapsing Mountains, Shattered Liveshttp://www.truth-out.org/news/item/37042-the-front-lines-of-climate-disruption-alaskans-witness-collapsing-mountains-shattered-lives I've had family members who have visited Glacier National Park in the US,over the past few decades they recently told me that if I wanted to see it I had better go soon,because the glacier melt is so severe |
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Satori wrote: