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M-16 vs. AK-47: Which to choose?

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Tadeo View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 15 2008 at 3:27pm

A couple of videos to help anyone deciding which one to choose from.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2008 at 4:18pm
OMG forget accuracy that ak47 is a mean killing machine! The penetration is unbelievable compared to the M16. Of course the ak47 accuracy is no match to the precision shot of an M16. JMHO Good videos, thanks Annie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2008 at 6:11am
Great Video's! I'm thinking on getting a Ruger mini-30. It uses the same 7.62x39 as my SKS does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2008 at 11:29am
I'd avoid the ruger, not much more accurate than the sks and ruger doesn't like for the peasants to have full capacity mags.  aftermarket mags are crap and the zero wandersw about when the rifle gets warm.
never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2008 at 10:21am
did you notice all the left handers shooting those aks..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tadeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2008 at 3:28am
Cole, be quiet, you just OFFENDED all of the libtards by saying "Left."  Oh boy, now all the boohoo cry babies are now definitely going to petition Albert for your hanging. 
 
By the way, your video on Aquarius was pretty gay.  Ahhh shoot, what I meant was that it gave me a happy feeling inside.  I must report myself to the Homeland Sensitivity Director for re-training.  Thanks alot, Cole!  Cry
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:31pm

Go with the AR, unless you're a lefty. If you're a southpaw the major drawbacks that make the AK platform crappy for us righties are huge advantages.

What good is penetration if even scoring a hit at as little as 100 yards is firmy in the realm of semi controlled luck? With my AR I can reliably put thirty bullets onto a pieplate at 100 yards offhand (Standing up) rapid-fire. I challenge you to do that with an AK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tadeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2008 at 8:25am
Okay, here is another good video.  Dude went to Pakistan and looked into the weapons markert.  Unbelievable prices!
 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 7:57pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tadeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2008 at 3:51pm
I have posted this video before but this has got to be the coolest gun out there!
 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2008 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by wrote:

did you notice all the left handers shooting those aks..
 
I'm a lefty and I shoot a STAG arms Left handed AR.  Love it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2009 at 12:34pm
one of my friends just bought a stagg lefty and he loves it.  I just picked up a nice norinco hunter [milled receiver ak]  that was converted by a guy that knows how to do it right.  can't believe i got it as cheap as i did in this time of rampant obamunism and panic.
never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2009 at 7:07pm
Interesting videos and a lot of good comments.  I am fortunate enough to own both the AK47 and the M16A1.  For distance and accuracy, the M16 is superior, but for raw fire power and intimidation, nothing beats the AK47.
 
A brief word of caution to those who are viewing these posts with an eye to the coming pandemic and the need to protect themselves and their families.  In most states you have an absolute right to use deadly force if you are in "reasonable imminent danger".  Shooting someone at 200 yards, or even 200 feet probably doesn't qualify for that and prosecutors have a pesky habit of labeling that murder, not self defense. 
 
For home protect the AK47 and M16 are good only if you have a crowd massed on your front lawn carrying guns, knives and clubs and they start coming through the doors or windows.  Then maximum fire power without the need to reload is certainly called for and either weapon will work well.  Of course, for basic home protection, nothing works like a pump action shotgun.  While I have many shotguns, both automatic and pump, the sound of that pump locking a shell into the chamber is like nothing else in this world and theives and bad guys know that sound all too well.  Just locking in a round is often sufficient to send them packing.  If not, forget accuracy.  Just fire off a 12 gauge buck shot at the door and clear the entire area.
 
Keep safe and keep legal.  Learn the laws in your area.  Even if we are in a pandemic situation, when it passes law and order will return and there will be plenty of bleeding hearts who will want to second guess your actions.  Be sure you have acted properly in defending your family.
John G.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2009 at 7:14pm
this is true.  although the sound of a pump action shotgun slide doesn't have the effect it once had.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparrowminded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2009 at 1:57am
It's a shame that people are so unclear about most of this.  First, there is no longer such a thing as an M-16.  That design evolved into the AR-15, back in the previous millennium.
No matter.  If you're just getting into the market right now, look first for ammo.  Not just whether or not you can find any, but you really need at least 500 rounds.  At this point, you'll only find shotgun shells.  Not just any shells though.  I've been seeing a good supply of #4 shot at Walmart lately, and that's the smallest I'll consider.
Very good to read up here:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/index.php about guns in general, and here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell about shotshells in general.
If you opt for a shotgun, you'll need something to tame the recoil.  This is what I use:
http://www.knoxx.com/products/SpecOps_Stock.php
Contrary to a previous poster, yes, racking the slide on a pump gun certainly does get attention.  More contrary, NO, firing a load of buckshot at the door will NOT clear an area.  A 12 ga. 2 3/4" shell holds only 9 pieces of 00 buck.  From a tactical shotgun like the Rem. 870 express or Mossberg 500,  that load will disperse to only about 6 inches in dia. in the average room.  You have to have some practice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2009 at 10:15am
i agree with most of what you said, other than the M16 thing.  the M16 is certainly around as it's the current issue rifle of the armed forces, the AR15 is the civilian version of that rifle.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparrowminded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2009 at 2:25am
OK.  It would be a very bad idea for civilians to try to acquire m-16's, because the military would come after you with M-60's to get them back.
I see a lot of discussion all over the web about what's the "best" gun to have in a terrible civil situation.  My primary choice right now is the same as it was during the harum scarum we went through in the mid-90's.  That is the Ruger 10/.22 carbine.  With a little bit of anatomy knowledge and careful shooting, the puny .22 lr cartridge can be every bit as effective as the .50 BMG against an armed adversary.  The .22 actually has several advantages:
1.)  You can easily carry 1,000 rounds of ammo, along with several magazines in a stout fanny pack.
2.)  It's quiet.  In a setting of general pandemonium, the enemy is likely to find it impossible to find you by trying to listen for gunshots.
3.)  There is no muzzle flash from a rifle.  Even at night, an enemy will be unable to locate you by looking for your muzzle flash.
4.)  Within 100 yds., the .22 lr is powerful enough to be lethal, with well placed shots.  Even if it doesn't kill straight away, an enemy will be greatly discouraged from closing the distance between you.  With the absence of recoil, you can fire 2 shots within 1/4 sec. of each-other, creating a much more grievous wound.
If I have to shoot at someone, I don't care if it kills him, or just hurts him really bad.  Either way, the threat is canceled.
The problem now, as with any caliber, is finding ammo.  It's worth looking hard, and paying a bit extra.  My Scoped CRR carbine (a smaller version of the 10/.22, with a 16" barrel) and 2,000 rounds of ammo weighs in at about the same as your military rifle with 100 rounds of ammo in magazines.  With my .22, I can shoot the untrained fool with that amazing M-4 or Sig 556, and have any gun I want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2009 at 7:12am
 .22's are very useful and are part of any well rounded survival battery, but as a defensive round are severely deficient.  the weapon you have is always gonna beat the one you don't have, so i won't argue there, but if looking for a defensive weapon it would be my last choice!

  As long as the M16 meets the legal criteria, you can buy it legally!  They prices on these sorts of guns are terrible now die to the democrats and their silly fear of firearms, but it can be had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparrowminded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 2:16am
And that is the standard response.  Then we look at this:
http://rusguns.net/?SPECIAL_PURPOSE_WEAPONS/SV-99_sniper_rifle    Aha!  Russia was met with such a nasty reception in Chechnya, because those wiley Chechens paid no heed to the standard response, and used .22 lr sniper rifles to very nasty effect.  The Russians were impressed enough with the points that I made in my previous post to develop their own version.  Now, let's have a little look at what the Israelis know about the Ruger 10/.22:
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.ht 
Yes, those are Israeli troops, using the very carbine I prefer in a military capacity.
Consider that in the situations that we are most likely to encounter in mainland America, citizens will not be opposing trained military units.  Nor will the bad guys have access to medical facilities.
Now, let's look at a little bit of gel testing:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html  My preferred .22 lr round is the Rem. 36 gr. golden bullet HP.  We see that average penetration is 11.9".  Expansion for all of the HP bullets is just over .30  I've done testing with wet phone books, mud, and water, firing two quick shots.  In the phone books and mud, I found that the wound channels converged after about 4" of penetration, and produced a wound channel after that which closely matched that of a 124 gr. 9mm HP.
Again, I stress that this won't blow a man to pieces, or even kill him right away.  The entire object is to make him stop attacking me, and it will do that very well.
If you read over the various gun forums, you'll find that .22 lr round nose ammo has been and remains the preferred method for dispatching livestock in small operations and rural settings.  This is why I mention a knowledge of anatomy.  If a .22 lr will dispatch a 600 lb. hog or a 1,000 lb. cow, dontcha' imagine that it could maybe work on a man?
Of course, this isn't the answer for every situation.  Best if you have beliggerents coming in from a little distance, and you want to hurt them without being discovered.  Most people don't have the guts or the stupidity to keep pursuing you after they've taken a hit or two to the face/neck.  Some will, and it's best to have a shotgun to meet them as the distance closes to more like 100 feet.  If they get even closer, it's a grand idea to have a reliable semi-auto pistol or three on hand.  That should be the order of weapons used at different engagement distances.  By culling the threat with a .22, you conserve your larger caliber ammo, which is heavier and harder to come by.
Now, as for attaining a real live M-16.  Just the paperwork is going to cost over $6,000.  The M-16 is selective fire.  If you are going to fire in burst mode, you better have a close relative who works at the Lake City plant, or you will just plain not keep that thing fed.  Assuming you can afford and locate the ammo, are you going to hire a couple of coolies to haul it around for you?  You see, I have a very bothersome habit of making sense.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 3:36am
Originally posted by sparrowminded sparrowminded wrote:

And that is the standard response. 
 
No, that is a realistic response. I've never been in a gunfight where people walked toward me like zombies so I could inflict grevious head and neck wounds. Yes it is true that a .22LR can be a devastating weapon, and more people have been killed or assassinated with this round than any other, but if I hit someone I want the fight ended right now regardless of where I strike them. A .22LR, even out of a rifle, simply can not deliver that kind of performance.
 
People you're shooting at have this nasty tendency to run in a zig zag, get behind cover, and shoot back. I want a gun that's going to probably defeat that cover.
 
Furthermore I want the report of me firing the weapon to be an instantly demoralizing psychological blow. The "Crack" of a .22 vs. the "bang" of a .223 (Or the boom of a .308) are factors. During the shootout (I forget the names involved) where the FBI wielding revolvers and 2 9mm's fought the two guys who were weilding Mini14's, the reports that came from the FBI agents said that the sound of the Mini14 firing at them was a psychological blow.
 
Quote
Consider that in the situations that we are most likely to encounter in mainland America, citizens will not be opposing trained military units.  Nor will the bad guys have access to medical facilities.
 
The Israelis are largely shooting from behind concealment/cover at people in the open and unaware of the danger. If you're going to be picking at someone that has no idea what's up, fine. Your .22 will serve you admirably. If someone's actually a dedicated attacker, they're going to come at you with body armor, which is extremely cheap, and from behind cover. You need a weapon that can perforate their armor and their cover.
 
Quote
Again, I stress that this won't blow a man to pieces, or even kill him right away.  The entire object is to make him stop attacking me, and it will do that very well.
 
I'm currently deployed and have seen people shot with M16's and AK47's continue fighting though they've got truly grevious wounds, and skeletal hits. These are weapons that are more powerful by trigometric functions than a .22LR. Can and will a .22 kill? You bet. Is it a fight stopper? Not by a long shot.
 
Quote
Of course, this isn't the answer for every situation.  Best if you have beliggerents coming in from a little distance, and you want to hurt them without being discovered.  Most people don't have the guts or the stupidity to keep pursuing you after they've taken a hit or two to the face/neck.  Some will, and it's best to have a shotgun to meet them as the distance closes to more like 100 feet.
 
Or they'll hear your pop gun and sit at 100 to 200 yards and trow FMJ at you in a higher caliber. After 100 yards a .22 is only moving at right around 1000 FPS with maybe 80 Foot pounds of force. That's not enough to get through plywood, much less someone with enough penetration to stop them.
 
Quote
Now, as for attaining a real live M-16.  Just the paperwork is going to cost over $6,000.  The M-16 is selective fire.  If you are going to fire in burst mode, you better have a close relative who works at the Lake City plant, or you will just plain not keep that thing fed.  Assuming you can afford and locate the ammo, are you going to hire a couple of coolies to haul it around for you? 
 
This is untrue. It will cost you $200 for a BATFE tax stamp and background check to own a class 3 fully automatic weapon, Destructive device, or short barreled rifle. The rifle ITSELF will cost you a pretty penny, upwards of $4000 or more, but for the deal to buy it, it's only $200.
 
Also I can, right now, name easily 20 websites where I can not only buy .223, 7.62x39, .308, but .380, 9x18, 9mm, .40S&W and whatever accessories I might need at awesome prices. That will keep my weapons fed for a very long time. My default load here is 240 rounds, but I have a vest that lets me carry four extra magazines for a total of 360. My rifle has burst capability, but I rarely use it.
 
Back in the States I personally own a G36, several AR15's, several AK's, an AUG, etc and have absolutely no trouble at all feeding them and I shoot twice or more a week. Ammo is still plentiful if you know where to look.
 
Quote You see, I have a very bothersome habit of making sense.
 
No, right now you're not. Your facts are woefully not based in reality. Your fact about the paperwork for a Class 3 stamp is wrong as is your explanation that there are no more M16's. I currently carry an M16 on duty, NOT an M4, as I like the ballistic advantage I get from the 20 inch barrel vs the 14 inch. Do research before you post something like that. You're debating with someone (Detpat) that has years of real world triggertime, both is law enforcement and military and I believe, correct me if I am wrong, has taught defensive firearms for more than twenty years. When he says something regarding firearms, I listen, and nobody can call me a gun lightweight.
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