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Panasonic Orders Expat Families Home on Concern of

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 6:54am
This looks serious. Albert you may be right. This winter may be the one. Time to get writing huh?  Good find!

Medclinician
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 7:27am
So Panasonic now as well as making jolly good TVs, and now reputable pandemic experts? Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 7:32am
Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Time keeps passing, and in theory, we're becoming more and more over due.  In 2005, a lot of people were guessing that a panflu would hit within approximately 5 years given the average and frequency that panflus occur.  Based on history, we are overdue and perhaps Panasonic realizes that based on their own "panflu modeling".


For goodness sake...

Anyone who has the most basic grasp of statistics understand that 'random' events do not become more likely because of past history. If a dice is thrown 5 times and a six doesn't come up, it's no more or less likely to come up on the next throw, than on any of the previous throws.

Given mutation is a random event, it cannot be deemed to be more likely to occur just because it hasn't occurred yet...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 7:35am
It's called the rule "averages" when looking at the frequency of past events.  For example,   you can predict the average number of hurricanes each year based on previous years. 
 
On average over the last 300 years, we have had a flu pandemic every 30 years or so.  The longest stretch between pandemics is 40 years.  We are currently in the 41st year since the last pandemic, which is the largest gap since the 1600's.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 7:49am
Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

It's called the rule "averages" when looking at the frequency of past events.    


I'm afraid random events don't work by rules like that... Especially ones which are not even guarenteed to occur ever...

You're original statement was:- Time keeps passing, and in theory, we're becoming more and more over due.

This is completely meaningless I'm afraid as again. Consider a six sided dice scenario again, with the number six appearing meing pandemic. You've thrown the dice 5 times, and not got the number six. That in no way affects the next roll(s). And, of course, we're assuming the numer six is even on the dice!

The fact a pandemic has not occurred over the past years has absolutely NO bearing on the years to come... Random events are behind it all...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anon54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 7:50am
Thanks for the email concerning this story Albert. Truth be told I was getting burned out on bird flu. Looks like I need to beef up my preps like NOW!!
  I tend to think the Japanese are playing it safe and this has nothing to do with the global economy at all and everything to do with a looming pandemic. Just curious what's everyone's tipping point to SIP? Or is it a fluid thing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 7:55am
Originally posted by Neil Neil wrote:

Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

It's called the rule "averages" when looking at the frequency of past events.    

Random events are behind it all...
 
Of course the events are random, but you can also predict the frequency of specific random events.  This common random event could in fact be over due. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:07am
Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Originally posted by Neil Neil wrote:

Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

It's called the rule "averages" when looking at the frequency of past events.    

Random events are behind it all...
 
Of course the events are random, but you can also predict the frequency of specific random events.  This common random event could in fact be over due. 


Duck the matter as much as you like but facts are facts.... Your statement of, 'Time keeps passing, and in theory, we're becoming more and more over due.' hold absolutely no water at all.

To propose a pandemic will occur later this year, because it hasn't occurred over the past X years has no validity at all.

Basically it's scaremongering. A pandemic has not occurred for X years. It is just as likely to not occur again for X years... Not more... Not less... (given the same conditions).

And talking about conditions, lets keep in mind of course there is now (unlike before) active measures being taken against such pandemic out breaks, which if anything reduce its likelyhood. Maybe this is why we are breaking your 'law of averages'.


Also, does no one else find the idea of Panasonic (of all people) having a pandemic crystal ball looking 9 months into the future rather odd?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Birdfluman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:21am
Actually a Hong Kong health official (can't remember her name) was recently quoted as saying that "Something terrible is happening in China." With 8 deaths already this year, and mounting, with who knows how many infections, plus the dead birds flushing down the Pearl River estuary landing up on Hong Kong shores, something terrible indeed is happening in there.
 
The most disturbing thing is that the Chinese government has been steadfastly denying there has been any bird flu (bird to bird) outbreaks at all. 8 deaths but no dead birds, doesn't make sense. Having said that I understand that today (11 Feb) they have finally come clean. The province mentioned however is not on the river, so it's happening in more than one place.
 
With millions of birds culled (and about a dozen dead) since this outbreak started a couple of months ago, bird flu (H5N1 variety) has now had its presense felt from Egypt all the way to Indonesia. This is a swathe of land covering 1/3 of the world's surface including India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, China and Taiwan.
 
Panasonic is certainly getting the jitters. It will cost them a LOT of money to do this, so to think they have not carefully considered this decision would be naive. We also know that it would not be possible for them to know that a pandemic will be starting on a given date. So that's not it either.
 
The people they have working in all these areas are scared. If anyone's seen any of the Beijing blogs for example you'll know that that's just about all they talk about. If this is an indication of what real world Beijing is talking about also, then there's a low level panic going on. This will filter it's way from on the ground senior management to head office decision makers.
 
Whether it turns out Panasonic acted prematurely and they end up suffering some sort of consequence, or whether they end up being hailed as 'visionary', only time will tell.  
 
One good thing that will hopefully come of this is that Panasonic's news will be the catalyst for bird flu to get back into the mainstream media. People will begin again to take notice and pandemic planning will either be started at last, or reviewed again.
 
Birdfluman a veteran business continuity planning professional and operator of Bird Flu Manual Online (http://www.birdflu-manual.com)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:34am
Thanks for keeping me on the email list Albert even after tossing my loginID:  earwax

Here is the link to the story mentioned above:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/253916,hong-kong-expert-warns-of-terrible-china-bird-flu-outbreak--summary.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:42am
Oops.  My account may or may not have been punted.  I could not get on for the longest time and now I can log in but it tells me that I have to activate my account by clicking on the link of the email that was sent to me.  I never received one and in fact never tried to reactivate it (unless my brain cell is wrong again). 

It's possible that my account is just in some limbo state.  Albert, can you look into this and tell me if I'm banned and if not, how I can get my account back up to snuff.  I can only post replies as a guest at the moment.

If I'm banned, well, shucks.  Interesting times a comin', keep up the good work anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:50am
You're not banned.  Your username should be working now, although you may have to request a new password.
 
Best,
Albert
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 9:16am
I agree with Albert.  The cost of moving families greatly outweighs the simple escape of laying them off due to the economy....and honestly, would elicit less publicity since everyone is laying off folks right now.  I also agree that given history on pandemics, that we can assume a pandemic of sort sort is overdue.  If we can't rely on historical data to make an educated guess, then there is simply no other method of predicting these things such as hurricanes, etc.  Now does it happen that they predict 10 and there is really 14...sure, but the point is that they are making educated guesses in order to prepare people.  I think its perfectly reasonable to try to predict events that are even unpredictable by using historical data. 
With all this said, I think that things are falling into place that make it a little more scary than it has been in previous years, so everyone should take that thought and do with it what they may.....if you dont' agree, then just don't do anything different.
 
Albert - thanks for the email, it was nice to see a notification coming from you on the important matters and made me feel more at ease that I will be among the first to know!  Blesses!
NOW is the Season to Know
that Everything you Do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeilF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 11:01am
Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

I agree with Albert.  The cost of moving families greatly outweighs the simple escape of laying them off due to the economy....and honestly, would elicit less publicity since everyone is laying off folks right now.  I also agree that given history on pandemics, that we can assume a pandemic of sort sort is overdue.  If we can't rely on historical data to make an educated guess, then there is simply no other method of predicting these things such as hurricanes, etc.  Now does it happen that they predict 10 and there is really 14...sure, but the point is that they are making educated guesses in order to prepare people.  I think its perfectly reasonable to try to predict events that are even unpredictable by using historical data. 
With all this said, I think that things are falling into place that make it a little more scary than it has been in previous years, so everyone should take that thought and do with it what they may.....if you dont' agree, then just don't do anything different.
 
Albert - thanks for the email, it was nice to see a notification coming from you on the important matters and made me feel more at ease that I will be among the first to know!  Blesses!
There is pseudo science at play here... 'We're overdue for a pandemic, so it's more likely' - Suggesting this of course is utter nonsense.

Also, let's try not to resort to scaremongering. Yes WHO have suggested 'the world is now closer to a pandemic than in 40yrs'... But let's remember this 'news' is many years old....

Yes, by all means be informed. But remember this electronics company do not have crystal ball, so the sky is not quite falling down yet...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NeilF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Birdfluman Birdfluman wrote:

One good thing that will hopefully come of this is that Panasonic's news will be the catalyst for bird flu to get back into the mainstream media. People will begin again to take notice and pandemic planning will either be started at last, or reviewed again.
 


...and put some more money in your pocket?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 11:17am
Wow NeilF, you really want to fight with everyone.  Hmmm.  Reminds me of someone else...
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History is history, and it always repeats itself.  Whether it be pandemics, famines, ice ages, global warming, fallen economies, and on and on.  The law of averages is always in affect.  Time frames are hard to pin down.  No one here is looking for exacts.  Arguing about it is senseless.  A pandemic will happen again.  At least now we have the knowledge to track history to see how things happen and "approximately" what the time frame may be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mashburn20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 11:38am
i am scared hlf to deah of td lum hbb think's it's noncense and won't let me stock up on stuf and whave3 kid's age's 6 and 2and 4 month''s i worry tht they could die i can't fid a job so my hubby is our only source of income so im  scared that he could die to should i stock up anyway's mash
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 11:45am
   While I agree that pandemics are random events that cannot be predicted, I'm also a believer in the old adage that those who choose to ignore history are destined to repeat it. Pandemics happen and always will. This decision by Panasonic might not mean anything, but when the stakes are so high and a big multinational makes a move like this, I think it warrants attention. Maybe next year we'll look back on this and wonder why we got so excited, but I'd rather that than be unprepared and kicking myself for not heeding the warning signs. Someone in Panasonic knows something we don't and that's the way I choose to view this. We've got 46 people, including 10 members, on today and this thread is the most viewed judging by a quick look at the active users list, so it's got the attention of a lot of people.
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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