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FluMom 
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 Topic: When Do You SIP?Posted: February 26 2012 at 12:00pm |
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The topic of Stay In Place (SIP) is a very important one before anything happens. It could be H5N1 or some other virus or situation that would call for SIP.
The BIG QUESTION is WHEN do you SIP!!! Most of us have jobs and bosses who expect you to show up to work or lose that job. If a threat is perceived but does not come to be really bad and you have SIP and lose your job your LIFE CHANGES big time. Today jobs are not easy to come by. SIP is a cute idea we all have but what is the REALITY? Sorry to burst everyone's buble but even though most of us have preps to SIP...Staying In Place is not an easy decision. Let us all have a real discussion on this and maybe we can help each other with some reality checks. I know I have brought this subject up before but let us have some real ideas of what to do and how to make this decision. |
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Always Be Prepared
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FluMom
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 12:13pm |
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I am the first other vote. I do not know what I will do. I work in a school with some parents who travel all over the United States and the world with their jobs. So I could be one of the first exposed.
When I SIP is a real problem. That is why I would love some suggestions and what will determine when you SIP. |
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DANNYK
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Joined: December 13 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 1:14pm |
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For me it is easy,my wife and i own a small diner.we answer to no one other than our custermers.if we see a increase in deaths in our town SIP it will be .I think everyone here will know when to stay home.
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ONE FOR ALL
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Penham
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 4:57pm |
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I only work part-time, about 15 hours a week, so I am not the major money maker, I can quit my job at any time, it's not an issue and I don't make a huge amount. Hubby has about 60 days of sick leave and vacation time through his job, not sure what could be done over the phone or from home.
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FluMom
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 8:13pm |
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Good point Penham, use sick days. See I never think of using my sick days.
DannyK you are lucky! These are great comments keep them coming folks. |
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jacksdad
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Posted: February 26 2012 at 8:47pm |
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Nice idea to move the SIP debate to it's own thread
This is a tough one, as I'd like to think I know a little more about pandemics than Joe Public, and would see the writing on the wall a little sooner. I'd have to know the strain, the infection rate, mortality, spread, etc before I'd make a decision. I work in healthcare, and I have people relying on me, but I also have a family that I might bring a virus home to. Of course, that could happen at my son's school or my wife's workplace, but if I felt the threat was too close and too great I'd start considering an SIP. Too many factors to give a short answer, so I checked "other" as well. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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coyote
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Posted: February 28 2012 at 9:12am |
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I think that I would SIP when The media starts talking about a lot of sickness and deaths that start to occur in our country,and the masses start to panic! That will be my wake up call..
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Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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SusanT
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Posted: February 28 2012 at 12:12pm |
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Does anyone know the government's parameters for when the schools would shut down for an epidemic? That would be a good indicator for me since I work at an elementary school. Other than that, I think at 10% I would be scared to go out of the house, but my husband would be the issue. He would want to continue working as usual for as long as possible.
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Mahshadin
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Posted: February 28 2012 at 12:40pm |
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SIP is a Grandeos idea and in reality will be the only effective tool until a vaccine is available. The problem is not the idea of SIP its in practice. It really depends on your situation, and location.
Do you work in Healthcare Do you work in Law Enforcement Do you work in Education Do you have children who attend school Do you use DayCare Do you have sick time that rolls over How long can you SIP if you did (Food--Water--ECT) Are way of life and our economy is set up for no hiccups, especially down time of any kind. Corps just do not look that far in to the future (Its all about now--quarterly profits). Last time 2009 we could not even get school closures done correctly as was discribed under the CDC's pandemic plan. As soon as it came up Big Corps fought back and pushed on government and the closure plan was dropped (Money over People), good thing it was not severe!!!!!. I think it really just depends on how cut off from the current system you are and whether your working in that system or not. Imagine if all of the healthcare and law enforcement just decided to SIP for 30 days ((((  ))) |
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"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." G Orwell
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FluMom
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Posted: February 28 2012 at 4:38pm |
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Mahshadin, I agree to SIP is a Grandeos idea that is why I started this subject. I think it is Grandeos because most of us need our jobs and unless we are let out of working we will stay!
If you have a kid in College will you want them to come home and SIP at 10% death rate and flunk out or lose the money invested. My gut feel is that most of us will not SIP when we need to and some of us will not make it even though we are prepared! I just pray that none of us ever have to find out. With Israel possible boming of Iran we could have a huge war ahead of us. We are living in interesting times. |
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jacksdad
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Posted: February 28 2012 at 10:37pm |
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Without getting contentious, let me just ask this - if we're not going to shelter in place, why are we stockpiling things that we expect to run out? If you're planning on life as normal out in the big wide world as a pandemic rages on, save your money and stop prepping. I agree that if we're talking about a minor pandemic like 2009 I don't see an SIP being necessary, but I'm prepping for a highly virulent (and probably pure avian) influenza coming out of left field and potentially killing hundreds of millions. I'm not prepping or planning to SIP for anything but the big one, but in that eventuality we absolutely will be sheltering in place.
I'm getting as ready as I can to get my family through the worst until a vaccine becomes available without having to be out in public. In healthcare we make the assumption that everyone is infected and use universal precautions in all situations. In a pandemic I'll assume everyone has the virus, and I won't want to be out on the streets risking infection. For me, the timing of an SIP is the only question, not whether I will or not. When it gets too dangerous, the doors will close and we'll do our best to sit it out. Richard Canas, when he was the NJ Homeland Security Director, had this to say on the subject - "You're going to be staying home for one year. There will be no school, there will be no work... all we'll be doing is trying to keep ourselves alive". The best benchmark we have for a future major pandemic (as opposed to a minor Asian/Hong Kong event) is 1918, and it got so bad that there weren't enough people to bury the dead, and corpses often lay where they fell, even if that was on the sidewalk. As many as a million people dying a day at it's height, and that in a world far more self sufficient than modern day society. At some point it will be suicide to mingle with others, and it won't be grandiose or cute but the difference between your living family members and your dead neighbors. Sorry, but I don't see a way to sugarcoat it. If something like Spanish flu were to hit, I fully expect my facility to go dark at some point, and the decision to work will be taken out of my hands (as I believe it will for most of us). There will simply be no point me showing up. No power, no water, no job. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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FluMom
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Posted: February 29 2012 at 8:36pm |
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I agree jacksdad, my worry is that many of us will not SIP soon enough. I am ready for a year to stay at home. If the water goes down I will after 5 months have to go out and get water. I have all the things to make it potable and get it safely.
I have a kid going to college 3 hours away and when to call him out of school will be difficult at best. The fact I live and work in an area where people travel all over the world exposes me to more of a chance of getting sick sooner. I am a widow and need my job so I can not quit without permission from my employer after use of my sick days. I believe that school districts will wait until the last minute because days in school means money to the districts. That is why I have started this topic, I am trying to get wiser as to how to figure out that a deadly virus is bad enough to SIP before I or my only child gets infected. I appreciate your views jacksdad they give perspective. |
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jacksdad
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Posted: March 01 2012 at 9:47pm |
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"I appreciate your views jacksdad they give perspective."
FluMom, you're most welcome. Like I said, I didn't want to sound contentious - I just got a little worried when I thought it was being debated whether to SIP or not. This is a tight group that's stuck around this long on AFT and I'd hate to think of any of us coming to harm by not being cautious (or indeed overly cautious) when it mattered. You've been through a lot in the past few years, and you've kept going despite everything life has thrown at you, and I'd hate myself for not offering advice that I felt was in your best interest. We might not always be on the same page ideologically, but we're all part of the AFT family. Watching each others backs is part of our job here. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Penham
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Posted: March 01 2012 at 10:37pm |
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I would like to think because we are so aware, watching what's going on, checking in here, that we are smarter than the average person, I think we will know when it's time. I remember in 2009, I changed my work schedule (I'm a vendor and fortunately I work my own schedule so I can work when I want as long as the work gets done), I was actually going in and working in some stores before they even opened, so I was in and out and had my stores stocked before they even opened to the public. Or I worked early in the morning, there are not alot of shoppers out at 8 or 9 in the morning. We did other small things that we continue to do today, like my 16 year old still refuses to drink out of a water fountain, lol, I carry a case of water in my truck. We still carry hand sanitizer.
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Elver
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Posted: March 01 2012 at 11:24pm |
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SIP is a little idealistic. I, for one, plan to do this, BUT I firmly believe that we won't be able to isolate ourselves long enough. If we have a pandemic, this thing could last for many years. Just when you think it is over, WHAM, it comes back with a vengeance. It could be a really long time before you can get in line for a flu shot, assuming it even works.
My bottom line is this; prepare, SIP, but recognize the possibility that none of us may escape a pandemic. No one can isolate themselves for 2-5 years.
Part of preparation is to be realistic in understanding that a pandemic may last much longer than your supplies.
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Elver
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Penham
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Posted: March 02 2012 at 5:40am |
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Historically flu comes in waves, so hopefully there would be times when it would be safe to venture back out to replenish supplies, work, etc.
I guess my thought on the job situation is, if everyone around you is dying, who cares about your job if it means exposing yourself to possible death. After all sick leave, vacation, runs out hubby would just not go back I am guessing, if the situation is that bad. He will just get another job later. Me I would just not go/quit/whatever, my company is pretty lenient, I'm a vendor work my own hours anyway, would depend on the situation whether I got fired or not, but oh well.
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Mahshadin
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Posted: March 02 2012 at 12:47pm |
_____________________________________________________________________________________ Please don't get me wrong jacksdad, I completely agree with the SIP concept as the only rational and effective tool in a severe pandemic until a vaccine is available. It really is the only short term and even long term solution to save human life with a deadly disease that can only be spread through contact (H2H). The problem comes in when you view it in a different perspective, whats good for humans is not necessarily good for Corporations for example. As a matter of fact SIP would be the equivalent of a Pandemic for Corporate entities as they can not die from the Flu. They can however die from financial loss or the loss of financial support. Many of our Corporations over the last few decades have shortened their financial cycles to the point where many could not survive even a short disruption of cash flow.
Again I did not mean to disparage your post in any
way jacksdad I simply meant I think SIP and the implementation of SIP will come
down to personal situations each of us are in. Its kind of funny it wasn't long
after that that the Corp eliminated carryover sick time from year to year. I
have since left that Corporation. What this experience did show me was how a
different perspective could change the outcome or decisions made in such
emergencies.
Here is another perspective. More than 50 % of the
US population exists paycheck to paycheck or within 60 days of financial
collapse. In a true SIP situation would the bank just say don't worry about
that mortgage payment or rent payment were in SIP (Not Likely). Our Economic
System is based on the un interrupted flow of money. Are you going to call the
electric or water company and tell them Sorry I am sipping call back in six
months when I get the flu shot and go back to work, and exactly how many Corps
do you think will still be standing after six months of 100% financial losses
because everyone is sipping.
I have a lot more of a dire outlook for what will
happen should we face a true Pandemic with an above average CFR, even under 10%. When it comes
to SIP there are a lot more questions than answers, and after having seen it
from a different perspective I just don’t see a (Smile Be Happy) ending in a
100% SIP situation or even as low as 50% SIP situation.
The 2008 Financial Crisis (Collapse) if nothing else
showed us all how vulnerable and dependant our economic system is on the cyclical
monetary system (Isolation Is Not An Option)
In yet another perspective I have seen what the
Super Wealthy are planning for. A Close
relative works directly for one of these individuals at a site that would be
used in such an event or at least that's my impression. You would not believe
this place. First it is tucked in a small mountain range with only one easy
entry point (Armed to the teeth). Inside they have their own electrical
generation, water system, sewer system, satellite & radio communication
system, Fuel and transportation, machine/mechanic shop and a boatload of
supplies. It is the preppers wet dream, and a pretty damn nice place to SIP. I
have been there 3 times with relative who works at the site. The people who
built this are a handful of the wealthiest families in the Country (Simply
Amazing)
Anyway you get my drift I hope. I myself am planning
to SIP and have put myself in a much better position to do so recently. On the
other hand my wife works at a public school which throws a huge wrench in the
whole thing. As we learned in the most recent event the single most effective
way of slowing the spread of influenza (Closing Schools) was tossed as soon as
the Chamber (Corps) put the pressure on even before a CFR could be established
(I posted this on the board when it happened). They don't get very many sick
days so not enough to cover a SIP. I am hoping any serious pandemic will not
happen until after her retirement date (2yrs). She used to tell me she would keep
working past that but in recent years with all of the teacher bashing and five
consecutive years of paycuts and benefit losses she as are many at her school
ready to just get out. If teacher bashers spent one week doing her job they wouldn't
open their mouth again, but of course that will never happen as most of them
are just pushing some agenda they have been paid to push.
I put a lot more emphasis on security when it comes
to supplies and what to be prepped with. For example the list that was posted
here, I would put guns and ammo up where the generator was. I can live without
electricity it would be tough but do-able. I just recently purchased 4 tactical
rifles and 4 hand guns for everyone in the house. All the same guns all take
the same ammo. We go to the range either weekly or biweekly so everyone gets
comfortable using the firearms safely and effectively. I think this will be the
key to surviving a lengthily SIP in the environment I live in (Again Individual
Circumstance). I just don’t see a lengthly SIP going down without a lot of
turmoil and a probable collapse.
I have around a 90 day supply of basic needs stuff
(Food-Water-Ect) with a plan to go to 180 when the time comes. I find one of
the more difficult things is keeping everything cycled (Use and Re-buy). This
keeps everything within usable dates. When I first started this I was buying a
lot of stuff that I didn't need or wouldn't use on a 90 day turn. So I think
its also important to buy things you actually will eat so your supply stays
dated and you don't end up throwing a bunch of stuff away, takes a little work
but well worth the effort. Wouldn't want to get in a SIP situation only to find
out a lot of your stuff is dated and expired, then you will be worried about
contamination of some sort. Or store stuff in containers that are not appropriate
for storage. A good example is water, if your buying # 1 plastic bottles, they
should not be stored for long periods so always purchase # 2, #4, or #5
plastics when storing water.
These are just my own opinions based on personal experience on the matter so please don’t take offense
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"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." G Orwell
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DANNYKELLEY
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Posted: March 02 2012 at 1:52pm |
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Dont take this wrong, But in the case of a major pandamic a lot of people dropping the last thing I would worry about is my mortgage payment.Or utilites.That would not even enter my mind.The safty of the family is all I would be thinking about.And I would think the Gov. would want you to be in that frame of mind!!
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WHAT TO DO????
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Elver
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Posted: March 02 2012 at 8:09pm |
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Your mortgage should be consideration #1. Otherwise, the banks will boot you out without any concerns on their part. You may be forced to move in with relatives, friends, or sleep under a bridge somewhere. If you think our government will care about people losing their homes, think again. Millions of people are losing their homes right now & a pandemic will not change this.
Are your cell phone, internet, & cable TV charges worth more to you than saving for some extra mortgage payments when the time comes? It's something to think about.
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Elver
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FluMom
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Posted: March 02 2012 at 9:12pm |
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Mahshadin, I read all of your statement with great interest. I will SIP but like most people will only be able to totally SIP for 6 months. I will have to go out for water if we are cut off. Unless you are one of those very wealthy families you spoke of we will all be exposed within a year.
This is why I brought up this topic so we can all learn. Your experience in the Corporation and the fact it will not shut down is because money is king and they will not give up profits. So people will die in a real pandemic. You have made some great observations and I have learned much. Thank you. |
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jacksdad wrote: