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Welcome to Avian Flu Talk -- Also tracking MERS and Ebola.

the key (Airborne)?

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sweets View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 06 2006 at 1:22pm
Okay so I was just reading the new article on the ABC site and it says"

"WHO said bird flu could potentially cause more deaths than those from the global flu pandemics. Because the H5N1 virus is airborne, it is easier to transmit and much more contagious than HIV/AIDS, WHO officials said. "

Okay now do you remember how SARS was considered (not airborne) by the WHO? The said coughing droplets type yes, but full on airborne no. 

I guess my point is Airborne versus Airborne?

Just something I was chewing on

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 7:26pm

I heard on the radio on my drive home today, the experts are concerned this is going to be much worse than AIDS.  This is the 2nd time I've heard this today.  Is this true?  i thought you had to come into contact with the virus and rub your eyes, eat food (transmition through hand contact) - but airborne???  That means it will travel through air and if we breathe it???

Rick?  Joe?  SZ, somebody??? - what type of airborn are we talking about here?  Airborn through coughing droplets type, or airborne through breathing? 

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:36pm

Yes That is my question also!

Droplets is one thing the other is way worse

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mightymouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:41pm
I opened my mouth - and in flew enza.
Nothing matters - Therefore everything matters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 8:56pm
not very reassuring
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicken Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 9:21pm
Nothing on this forum is reassuring as of late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:04am
How do things change if it goes airborne? Conpared to what it does other wise?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:05am

There are two main types of "airborne" concerns. One would be from coughing and sneezing causing the virus to float in microscopic droplets in the air.  Others could catch the virus through inhalation of thoes droplets.  The other "airborne" concern is that the virus exists in the excrement (poo) of infected birds and waterfoul. When that dries and the wind blows, well.....I live near lakes and golf courses, tons and tons of geese.  This has concerned me for a while now.  Yes I can isolate me and my kids, but what's to prevent the wind from blowing BF in goose dropings through my vents.   Joy.

Ann E.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:10am
the virus can survive for 100 days in excrement and it is air borne......do the math,prep adequatly...............think............be smarter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:13am

Thanks! So ABC says airborne Does the WHO? Cause Airborne is the Bad Word!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:46am

From the New England Journal of Medicine on H5N1

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/353/13/1374#T1

 

Transmission

Human influenza is transmitted by inhalation of infectious droplets and droplet nuclei, by direct contact, and perhaps, by indirect (fomite) contact, with self-inoculation onto the upper respiratory tract or conjunctival mucosa.4,5 The relative efficiency of the different routes of transmission has not been defined. For human influenza A (H5N1) infections, evidence is consistent with bird-to-human, possibly environment-to-human, and limited, nonsustained human-to-human transmission to date.

Animal to Human

In 1997, exposure to live poultry within a week before the onset of illness was associated with disease in humans, whereas there was no significant risk related to eating or preparing poultry products or exposure to persons with influenza A (H5N1) disease.6 Exposure to ill poultry and butchering of birds were associated with seropositivity for influenza A (H5N1)7 (Table 2). Recently, most patients have had a history of direct contact with poultry (Table 3), although not those who were involved in mass culling of poultry. Plucking and preparing of diseased birds; handling fighting cocks; playing with poultry, particularly asymptomatic infected ducks; and consumption of duck's blood or possibly undercooked poultry have all been implicated. Transmission to felids has been observed by feeding raw infected chickens to tigers and leopards in zoos in Thailand17,18 and to domestic cats under experimental conditions.19 Transmission between felids has been found under such conditions. Some infections may be initiated by pharyngeal or gastrointestinal inoculation of virus.

View this table:
[in this window]
[in a new window]
 

Table 2. Serologic and Clinical Characteristics of Avian Influenza A (H5N1) Infection among Contacts of Patients or Infected Animals.

 

View this table:
[in this window]
[in a new window]
 

Table 3. Presentation and Outcomes among Patients with Confirmed Avian Influenza A (H5N1).


Human to Human

Human-to-human transmission of influenza A (H5N1) has been suggested in several household clusters16 and in one case of apparent child-to-mother transmission (Table 3).20 Intimate contact without the use of precautions was implicated, and so far no case of human-to-human transmission by small-particle aerosols has been identified. In 1997, human-to-human transmission did not apparently occur through social contact,8 and serologic studies of exposed health care workers indicated that transmission was inefficient9 (Table 2). Serologic surveys in Vietnam and Thailand have not found evidence of asymptomatic infections among contacts (Table 2). Recently, intensified surveillance of contacts of patients by reverse-transcriptase–polymerase-chain-reaction (RT-PCR) assay has led to the detection of mild cases, more infections in older adults, and an increased number and duration of clusters in families in northern Vietnam,21 findings suggesting that the local virus strains may be adapting to humans. However, epidemiologic and virologic studies are needed to confirm these findings. To date, the risk of nosocomial transmission to health care workers has been low, even when appropriate isolation measures were not used10,11 (Table 2). However, one case of severe illness was reported in a nurse exposed to an infected patient in Vietnam.

Environment to Human

Given the survival of influenza A (H5N1) in the environment, several other modes of transmission are theoretically possible. Oral ingestion of contaminated water during swimming and direct intranasal or conjunctival inoculation during exposure to water are other potential modes, as is contamination of hands from infected fomites and subsequent self-inoculation. The widespread use of untreated poultry feces as fertilizer is another possible risk factor.

 In short, they just aren’t sure.  Further, how do you confirm aerosol transmission in human to human? One can only assume that because all other flu can infect via aerosols, so can H5N1.  I’ll keep digging.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:48am
thank you ann for your great post
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:02am

Excellent thanks!!!!

I like this part

Given the survival of influenza A (H5N1) in the environment, several other modes of transmission are theoretically possible. Oral ingestion of contaminated water during swimming and direct intranasal or conjunctival inoculation during exposure to water are other potential modes, as is contamination of hands from infected fomites and subsequent self-inoculation. The widespread use of untreated poultry feces as fertilizer is another possible risk factor.

 In short, they just aren’t sure.  Further, how do you confirm aerosol transmission in human to human? One can only assume that because all other flu can infect via aerosols, so can H5N1.  I’ll keep digging.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:06am

Yep, no more swimming in the lake.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:18am
YEA!!!!  That was my thinking...thanks for the info...peace of mind AnnE
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060306/ap_on_he_me/un_bird_flu_ 2;_ylt=Ak3p.LqQlN2zMb38YUpWMW6TvyIi;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHN lYwMlJVRPUCUl

WHO: Bird Flu Bigger Challenge Than AIDS

By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press WriterMon Mar 6, 12:44 PM ET

The lethal strain of bird flu poses a greater challenge to the world than any infectious disease, including AIDS, and has cost 300 million farmers more than $10 billion in its spread through poultry around the world, the World Health Organization said Monday.

Scientists also are increasingly worried that the H5N1 strain could mutate into a form easily passed between humans, triggering a global pandemic. It already is unprecedented as an animal illness in its rapid expansion.

Since February, the virus has spread to birds in 17 countries in Africa, Asia, Europe and the Middle East, said the WHO's Dr. Margaret Chan, citing U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization estimates of the toll on farmers.

"Concern has mounted progressively, and events in recent weeks justify that concern," Chan, who is leading WHO's efforts against bird flu, told a meeting in Geneva on global efforts to prepare for the possibility of the flu mutating into a form easily transmitted among humans.

U.S. health officials said Monday they have authorized the development of a second vaccine to combat the deadly virus, which already is believed to be changing.

The U.S. government has several million doses of a first bird flu vaccine based on a sample of virus taken from Vietnam in 2004. The virus is believed to have mutated since then, health officials said.

"In order to be prepared, we need to continue to develop new vaccines," Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt said Monday at an immunization conference.

In Austria, state authorities said Monday that three cats have tested positive for the deadly strain of bird flu in the country's first reported case of the disease spreading to an animal other than a bird.

The cats had been living at an animal shelter where the disease already was detected in chickens, authorities said.

Poland reported its first outbreak of the disease, saying Monday that laboratory tests confirmed that two wild swans had died of the lethal strain.

Chan told more than 30 experts in Geneva that the agency's top priority was to keep the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu from mutating.

"Should this effort fail, we want to ensure that measures are in place to mitigate the high levels of morbidity, mortality and social and economic disruption that a pandemic can bring to this world," she said.

WHO says 175 people are confirmed to have caught bird flu, and 95 of them have died.

"No one can say when this will end," Chan said.

Global influenza pandemics — as opposed to annual recurrences of seasonal flu — tend to strike periodically. In the 20th century, there were pandemics in 1918, 1957 and 1968.

WHO said bird flu could potentially cause more deaths than those from the global flu pandemics. Because the H5N1 virus is airborne, it is easier to transmit and much more contagious than HIV/AIDS, WHO officials said.

Dr. Mike Ryan, director of epidemic and pandemic alert and response at WHO, said, "We truly feel that this present threat and any other threat like it is likely to stretch our global systems to the point of collapse."

This is the first time world health authorities have tried to stop a global influenza pandemic before it begins. Chan referred to the spread of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, as evidence of "how much the world has changed."

SARS infected 8,000 people, killing 800 of them.

"In a globalized economy, with high volume of international travel, vulnerability to new disease threats is universal," she said. "It is the same for the rich and for the poor."

WHO spokeswoman Maria Cheng said experts hope to isolate areas where there is a bird flu outbreak and establish agreements allowing international health authorities to respond quickly, testing viruses and implementing containment measures.

Public health measures to quarantine areas, isolate people or help give antiviral medicine to those infected with bird flu also are on the agenda of the meeting, which ends Wednesday.

Even if a pandemic cannot be stopped, WHO says such measures can buy time for health authorities to improve their response strategies and stave off the disease until a pandemic vaccine can be produced.

Meanwhile, a top animal health official with the Rome-based U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization said developed countries had responded slowly to bird flu, failing to control the disease in Asia and not doing enough to prepare poor countries, particularly in Africa, for its spread.

"In 2004 we said it will be an international crisis if we don't stop it in Asia, and this is exactly what is happening two years later," said Joseph Domenech, head of FAO's Animal Health Service.

"We were asking for emergency funds and they never came. We are constantly late."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:57am

China is getting ready thy just introduced NO PUBLIC SPITTING program
One way the BF virus can spread

//www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2006-03/03/content_52609 6.htm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 12:31pm

wow...must be quite bad there.

With AIDS at least we can feel comfortable that by a person sneezing on you, you won't contract it...

This one??? Swim in a lake where a duck pooped 2 weeks ago, and you get it.  SCARY!!!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:06pm
Not true Nikita, if some one with aids sneezes on you and the 'spray'
contains their blood, you might get HIV if it gets into your bloodstream
thriugh a cut etc.. Just thought you should know that!

They got as big problem getting chinese men to stop spitting. Once had
these chinese men round my factory and they kept doing it on the
production area floor all the time. We told them it was not the done thing
but they kept on doing it. Was a case of get the order and get them out of
here.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:15pm

Originally posted by harpmandoodle harpmandoodle wrote:

Not true Nikita, if some one with aids sneezes on you and the 'spray'
contains their blood, you might get HIV if it gets into your bloodstream
thriugh a cut etc.. Just thought you should know that!

They got as big problem getting chinese men to stop spitting. Once had
these chinese men round my factory and they kept doing it on the
production area floor all the time. We told them it was not the done thing
but they kept on doing it. Was a case of get the order and get them out of
here.


 

lol..have you watched teenagers..yuck i have 4 of them living nextdoor to me they just moved in and they hork and york and spit..yuck on my front lawn...and I will set my kids pool up there...not this year...will I let my pets out front no way...glad I have a big back yard and theese teens don,t get near it 8 foot fence all around the backyard...

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