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Border wall yes /no

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carbon20 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 11 2019 at 4:49am
What's the verdict folks,

As an outsider what's the opinion of you yanks..?
12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 7:34am
The wall was one of Trump's campaign promises. But he did say Mexico would pay for it. So WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

The Democrats believe the wall a huge cynical waste of money. But the majority want it. So WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

It takes two to make an argument, not even Trump can manage that alone.

Who is MORE in the wrong? Bu99ered If I know! Pick Trump, as he walked out of talks, if you like, but flipping a coin is probably better.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 7:37am
Codicil to the above:

I thought our houses of commons and lords populated with children and loonies. Oh boy!!!! The American senate and congress put that into perspective!
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 9:52am
If we have no border security we have no country.   That beings said a wall really isn't my first choice.   The border could be secured with technology and political will.   However the Government (both political parties) has shown time and time again that it will not do the right thing.    We have had numerous promises but never anything happens.

Building a wall is mostly a symbolic thing. It is a demonstration of our Governments commitment.   Without something real and physical like a wall I don't think I will ever trust the governments commitment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 2:17pm
Great topic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 2:19pm
the biggest problem with Brexit is,

a collapse in Democracy,

it has failed because those that lost should have gotten behind the yes vote 100%,

why !! because that was the will of the majority,

if that had happened Britain could have demanded more from Brussels and been in a much stronger position,

as for the wall i believe every country has the Right to defend its borders,

how they do it is up to them ,

maybe a way round this would be a Plebicite,a 1 off vote a simple Yes or NO

holding tens of thousands of workers to ransom is

Morally Wrong.....

but what do you expect from a Moral free zone.....aka Chump,

12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 3:05pm

Agreed. What a shame the Democrats tried to stoop down to his level.

This whole mess is shamefull!




Incidentally, I voted for brexit - because our relationship with the EU was undemocratic. Just that - nothing else!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 10:00pm
I'm not against a barrier per se but I'm totally against the cost! 5.7 billion dollars won't begin to pay for a 2000 mile (3000 km) wall, it would however give every teacher in the U.S. a $1700 a year raise. According to the CATO Institute to complete the wall will be closer to 60 billion! Has anyone ever known of a Federal contract coming in at the original bid price?



JANUARY 8, 2019 2:23PM
The Cost of the Border Wall Keeps Climbing and It’s Becoming Less of a Wall


Social scientist Bent Flyvbjerg described the selection of government-funded infrastructure projects as “survival of the unfittest” because proponents of those projects systematically exaggerate the benefits and underestimate the costs. President Trump’s proposed border wall with Mexico provides a striking example of this: A wall along the border with Mexico will likely cost about $59.8 billion to construct.

The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) recently sent a letter to Congress where it argued that $5.7 billion would pay for approximately 234 miles of a new physical steel barrier along the border. That new estimate comes to about $24.4 million per mile. This new OMB estimate is 41 percent more costly than the approximately $17.3 million per mile construction costs that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) estimated just a few years ago, 2.7 times as expensive as Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan estimated, and 5 times as expensive as Trump’s lowest estimate.

Even worse, the $24.4 million per mile estimate does not include the large cost overruns for government construction projects. Applying a conservative 50 percent cost overrun estimate to building the border fence brings the total price tag to approximately $36.6 million per mile. Building a steel fence along the remaining 1,637 miles of Mexican border not covered by pedestrian fencing would cost approximately $59.8 billion, excluding any maintenance costs.

There are a few caveats about the above estimate.

First, the 50 percent cost overrun estimate is conservative. A small sample of large construction projects selected by my colleague Chris Edwards shows that cost overruns boost total project costs by an average of 3.3 fold. The cost of the border fence is thus very likely to be more than double what I estimate above.

Second, this estimate is for the steel bollard barrier and not a concrete wall. In other words, the currently proposed steel border fence is far cheaper than the concrete and steel wall originally proposed by President Trump. Making it out of concrete could more than double the price.

Third, our cost estimate does not include the low-ball $864,353 annual per mile cost of maintaining the current border fence – which is likely a lot less expensive than repairing the barrier that has been proposed by Trump.

Fourth, the OMB’s cost estimate per wall is more in line with previous Trump administration requests than estimates made by organizations that are ideologically committed to building a wall regardless of the cost to taxpayers.    

Since 2017, administration officials at the OMB have been relatively consistent in estimating that the government cost of building a border wall is around $24 million per mile. However, the incentives for and history of government agencies systematically underestimating the costs of government construction projects makes this the lowest possible estimate. If it is built for about $24.3 million per mile than it would be the first time that a large government construction project has come in at or below cost in a very long time.

The cost of the border wall keeps getting higher, the border wall keeps becoming less of a wall, and the administration keeps promising that it will cover less and less of the border. At this rate, President Trump might end his administration with less fencing than he began it.

https://www.cato.org/blog/cost-border-wall-keeps-climbing-its-becoming-less-wall
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2019 at 10:39pm
Technophobe said: I thought our houses of commons and lords populated with children and loonies. Oh boy!!!! The American senate and congress put that into perspective!

We colonists have never been as proper as our cousins across the pond and we've always been a lot crazier! Our children and loonies are much less well behaved than your's but they're ours and we take umbrage at you pointing it out!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 9:11am
Ah! But I have to pont this out..............

Our country is old and the USA young. When your politicians behave badly, it is childish exuberance. When ours act up, it is advanced senility.

I have to try to save the face of our own nutters by any means - even by comparisons with our projeny.


Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 9:13am
What was I just saying?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2019 at 6:37pm
We give Iran 11.7 Billion and the Dems will not spend 5 Billion to protect our Border. Why I will never vote for a Dem they do not care about the American People.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2019 at 4:21pm
I wrote to my US Senator Tammy Duckworth (an amazing, wounded veteran!), and she told me a few things in her reply that I didn't know:

The non-partisan Government Accountability Office (GAO) estimates that it will cost $21 billion to build the wall not including the costs to acquire land. The GAO also found that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has no valid metrics demonstrating what additional security benefits a border wall would add.

Despite this, PresidentTrump expects Congress to support a budget proposal that funds this wall with American taxpayer dollars, breaking his campaign promise to make Mexico pay for it.

=======
Yikes!! $21 B not including the land!! You don't often hear much about the cost to buy the land, which will have to be seized from ranchers and others who live on the border with Mexico.

The entire concept is a disaster! Illegal immigration has been falling, and if we give financial assistance and support to failing countries like Guatemala, less will want to run up to the States for an uncertain and brutal future.
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