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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

WATER

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Sunset View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 12:15pm
              OK, I WILL PUT THIS QUESTION HERE, AND I HAVE ONE ON THE FOOD ALSO...CAN YOU PUT WATER INTO GALV. STEEL GARBAGE CANS [NEW ONES] AND PUT SOMETHING ON THE SIDE TO MAKE THE WATER  SHUT ON AND OFF?..........SUNSET
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jtg1969 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 12:25pm

It may be a good idea, if you are planning on using chlorine or other chemical disinfectants, to use an activated carbon filter prior to use to filter out the resultant chlorine and carcinogenic THM's. 

Please see below:

Disinfection

Disinfection with aggressive chemicals like chlorine or ozone is normally the last step in purifying drinking water. Water is disinfected to destroy any pathogens which passed through the filters. Possible pathogens include viruses, bacteria including Escherichia coli and Shigella, and protozoans including Giardia lamblia and Cryptosporidium. Many water systems intentionally leave residual disinfection agents in the water after exiting the plant so it travels throughout the distribution system. The most common disinfection method is some form of chlorine such as chlorine gas, sodium hypochlorite, chloramine or chlorine dioxide. The water and chemical mix are allowed to sit in a large tank, called a clear well. The water must sit in the clear well to ensure that the water is in contact with the disinfectant for a minimum amount of time because it takes time to inactivate the harmful microbes. Chlorine is a strong oxidant that kills many microorganisms and remains in the water to provide continuing disinfection. Other disinfection methods include using ozone which acts very rapidly or Ultra Violet light that is almost instantaneous also inactivate pathogens.

Chlorine gas and sodium hypochlorite are the most commonly used disinfectants, because they are inexpensive and easy to manage. They are effective in killing bacteria, but have limited effectiveness against protozoans that form cysts in water (Giardia lamblia and Cryptosporidium, both of which are pathogenic). Chlorine gas and sodium hypochlorite both have strong residuals in the water once it enters the distribution system.

The main drawback in using chlorine gas or sodium hypochlorite is that these react with organic compounds in the water to form potentially harmful levels of the chemical by-products trihalomethanes (THMs) and haloacetic acids, both of which are carcinogenic and regulated by the U.S. EPA. The formation of THMs and haloacetic acids is minimized by effective removal of as many organics from the water as possible before disinfection and/or by adding ammonia immediately after chemical disinfection is completed. Formerly, it was common practice to chlorinate the water at the beginning of the purification process, but this practice has mostly been abandoned to minimize the production of THMs.

Chloramines are not as effective disinfectants compared to chlorine gas or sodium hypochlorite, but do not form THMs or haloacetic acids. They are typically used only in stored and distributed treated water. An example of this sort is proceeses using ozone for primary disinfection which is very quickly accomplished then using monochloramine to create a residual level of disinfectant in the water. Chlorine dioxide is another rapid acting disinfectant against bacteria but unlike ozone it leaves a long lasting residual in the water. Despite these beneficial characteristics, it is rarely used because it may creates excessive amounts of chlorate and chlorite, both of which are regulated to low allowable levels.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 12:37pm

Sunset,

You might be able to drill in hole in your galv can and pass a threaded PVC nipple through.  You would silicon both sides and use a pvc nut on each side of the can to sinch up into the silicon.  Let it dry then attach your spickot to the outside.  Drill your hole close to the bottom but leave room for the nut and probably a washer.  I don't know if that would work, I would probably try it on a small (cheap can) if possible so if it does not work you are not out as much.  Someone else may have already made something similar and hopefully can better help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote delphina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:43am
I've got a question about river water: I live right near the Danube (dead swans, I know). Could I get water when needed from there (it's pretty clean, as rivers go). What if I filtered and boiled it --- could we drink it then?
Thanks for any info on this!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enumclaw,WA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:58am
I know your not supposed to heat or weld galvanized metal because it let's of toxic fumes. Also if you put it on your roof whatever leaches out of it kills the moss. So I don't think I would use galvanized anything for my drinking water.
RB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:13am
get yourself distilled water,it is pure and store indefnitly.
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 12:39pm

Delphina, the water will be safe as long as you can boil it. The danger is more if you can't. You can make it safe by mixing in bleach, enough so can smell it a little. Then let it sit for a few hours to make sure the bleach has had time to do its job.

Good luck.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 3:04pm
I'm thinking about buying 32 gal plastic garbage cans to put at each corner of our house to collect rainwater. I'll cut a hole in the lids, and run the  downspouts right thought the lid (no duck poop.)

Does anyone think the plastic that the garage cans are made of would be a problem.

I'm starting to feel paranoid.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 3:06pm
YES THE PLASTIC CAN BE TOXIC FOR US AS WELL BIRDS POOOOOOOOOO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 3:07pm
Darn! Ducks or geese could/would still poop on the roof! We are located on a AAA travel route for geese.

ARGH!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NawtyBits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by RotroShaggy RotroShaggy wrote:

Thanks, KillerFlu.net.  So, maybe another stupid question, but boiling water would kill the virius?  For how long?  What about a hot shower?  Are we potentially showering ourselves with the virus?  Would the heat of the shower water kill the virus?  These seem like stupid questions, but I've never really thought about it before.  It would be a shame to be all set up to survive and then realize you infected yourself in the bathtub with contaminated city water when you were trying to wash away the virus you were actually bathing in it . . . .


Boiling water for at least 10 minutes should kill viruses.

You hot water heater only heats to 120 to 130F, and this is NOT hot enough to kill a virus.  I would suspect that if the viruses are killed at the water plant, then you have bigger problems.  As for viruses in your well, then again you still have a bigger problem,i.e, it is probably already contaminated with something else.

nawty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote htpp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 10:14am

I called my Wal-Mart bakery and they have 3 gallon buckets that they discard after they are done and are for sale for $1.00 each.  Don't know why I didn't call months ago!! Anyway, I was wondering since these are washed would these be good to fill up with water for drinking water?

 

Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NawtyBits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by htpp htpp wrote:

I called my Wal-Mart bakery and they have 3 gallon buckets that they discard after they are done and are for sale for $1.00 each.  Don't know why I didn't call months ago!! Anyway, I was wondering since these are washed would these be good to fill up with water for drinking water?

 

Thanks!



Sort of.  For some reason, containers seem to retain the taste of what they originally carried.  When I get containers that held stuff that I dont want my other stuff to taste like, I soak them in water and baking soda.  The lids are the hardest to rid of odors.

When push comes to shove, why risk it when water containers are so cheap and readily available.....

nawty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote striper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 5:54am
I am just buying Poland Spring water in 1 liter and 1 1/2 liter sizes. So far got about 100 liters which is roughy 40 gallons. May be I will buy some gallon size bottles too. No intention of storing water in any other way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 5:32pm

I was thinking of platic gargage bins new and keeping them in the laundry room.  On wooden skids .  i can fill them from   the laundry facet.

I can fill these  in hours  Thisto me appeared the cheapest way to get water in large quantities

I like the ides of adding a faucit

Or even a childs pool with lid in the basement.  for extra water.  Plus I have bottled water and can juice

Should they be filled now

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valgard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 6:26pm
Please forgive my urgency in this post, but I think it is warranted, when this BF "thing" hits, you will have little time to save yourself from imminent disaster.  Water is imperative for life! You will be dead in 72 hours without it!

Your water heater has water, I suggest flushing it now to remove all the minerals which collect at the bottom, your bathtub should be filled when your town is hit. AND ANYTHING that holds water should be filled.

Walmart buckets may have an "off" taste, so what! Consider them a blessing. Garbage cans, water bed mattresses, kids wading pools, even milk jugs should be saved.

I'm so tired of hearing negative posts saying this thing or that is not good enough.  Any thing that holds water could save your life, we'll worry about the off tastes later, or the possible leaching of plastics and such.  Small worry when you are facing sudden death.  Get going and get going fast, water is life!   
Do Right and Fear Not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerPluss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 5:07pm

I did go to Sam's Club this week..they have a Reverse Osmosis Water Filtration Unit that cleans up to 1000 gallons of water ( 4 filters) for less than 160 dollars... Have not done this kind of purchase before... but feel it may be well worth  it .

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calendula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 5:13pm
Ginger:  You might want to check into "StearyPEn" it purifies water by using UVL, kills bacteria and viruses, as oppose to just all the bacteria.  It is about $150.00 it is the size of an oversize pen, that is what I invested you just have to replace batteries.
I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerPluss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 5:56pm
  Thanks DancingBear... where did you find this StearyPen??  I have never heard of anything like it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bohemians Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 7:18am
Hi Ya'll
Another option for safe water is to distill it. We bought a 'Waterwise Non Electric Water Distiller' a few months ago. It produces up to 16 gallons of distilled water per day. There are also free plans on the internet for making your own still from an old pressure cooker. Low pressure distilling may or may not, kill all viruses, but used with chlorine it should. It certainly removes contaminates.
Some one asked about putting in a water well- it depends on the depth of the water in your area, and the type of soil you have. If you plan on only going down to the surface water, you may be able to drill it yourself, if you don't have layers of rock, gravel, shale, ect. I've drilled 2 wells by hand using a 'Seymour' auger post hole digger. Pitcher pumps only work down to 20 feet  or so, if 20-40 feet they usally work if you add a foot valve. Any deeper than that, you will need a deep well setup- pump cylender at the bottom and a pump with a sucker rod. The easy way is to use an auger 2 inches in diameter and drill to the water sand- then drop a well point with a foot valve mounted on 1.25 diameter pipe. It is physicaly demanding work.
There may be someone in your area with a portable well driller who would do it for a few humdred dollars, you just have find them.
Sorry for the long post, hope it may be useful.
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