Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Linda
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Thanks that's good information....I have 3 years of a 4 year nursing degree....the last year was community health and psychiatric health....missed that part but I have a psychology degree....I have all my old nursing books...I use them...also have my PDR for nurses...It agrees with what I say about Tylenol...liver...Overdose...and dosage...have to pick my son up now but will look up about taking IBprofin and acetam. asap.
I know someone who lost their child to a Tylenol overdose. This is serious stuff and this is why I am adament in what I say...I'm not an expert but I am 100 percent sure that Tylenol dosage should not be messed with.
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Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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bellabecky
Adviser Group Joined: June 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 396 |
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here is the link for ibuprofen dosage chart:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T088900.asp#T088901 for tylonel (children): http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/T089101.asp |
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Iburofen is every 8 hours, Tylenol is every 4 hours. Maximum Ibuprofen dose is 800 mg every 8 hours under a Dr's care may go to every 6 hours. Childrens dose should not exceed 40mg/kg daily. Maximum adult dose of Tylenol is 4 gm (8 x 500mg extra stregnth) in children it is 90 mg/kg in 24 hours.
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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bellabecky
Adviser Group Joined: June 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 396 |
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I think I'll stick with my Dr. Sears hand-out my Dr. Office gave me. It is very precise and what my doc recommended. One tylonel chewable is 80mg, how is it that I can give it 4-5 times in 24 hours and stay below 90 mg? For her weight my daughter takes 3 at a time. That is 960-1200mg daily.
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Hi, let me add a couple of things which might be helpful.
1. If you have a cold or flu, make a mix of water and table salt and gargle with it. Tastes lousy, but works like a charm. You can also inhale it to clear nasal passages.
2. When I was in the service, I had recurring episodes of pink eye which did not respond to medical treatment. My doctor finally told me to get non-tear baby shampoo and purposely get it into the eye. Worked first time out! Never had another episode.
3. During a cold or flu. use whicks' vaporrub on the chest, cover with a towel and place a hot water bottle on top. Very effective.
4. Natural products which are helpful in fighting the cytocine storm: Garlic, Green tea, Vitamin E (d-tocopherol).
I have a question: My husband is on baby aspirin for his heart and I heard somewhere that either Ibuprofin or Tylonol should not be taking on aspiring. I don't remember which. Anybody know?? TIA
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Linda
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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If your tablets are 80mg and 90 is recommended then you go with the 80 mg as this is as close as you get ...recomended amounts are typically per dose not for a 24 hour period. For example if your intructions are 90 mg dose 4 times a day then every 6 hours your child would get one....90 mg. tablet...an 80 mg dose given 4-5 times a day is the recommended dose for an infant who is 4-11 months old...I am guessing your child is around 5 years of age.....by the dose you are giving....or the size/weight of a typical 4 or 5 year old...am I correct?
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Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Hairstdngup
Valued Member Joined: March 17 2006 Location: Uzbekistan Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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For Anxiety:
Old Grandad : 86 Proof, 1 oz every hour
100 Proof, 1 oz every 1 1/2 hours
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Que Sera Sera
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abbie
Adviser Group Joined: April 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 174 |
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I like that Hairstdngup.
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zipporah
V.I.P. Member Joined: June 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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We go to Mexico to buy drugs. If anyone can get there the puffers (albuterol) are 4 dollars each. Antibotics are 6-9 dollars per dose, or for 50 pills if the old type are purchased. The 5 day ones are 7.00. Also you can buy most anything else, as blood pressure, thyroid, the regular stuff.
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Faith is being sure of what we hope for
and certain of what we do not see. |
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Linda
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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That's the best advice I've heard yet
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Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Hi,
Primatene Mist is an inhaled epinephrine. This product is marketed for folks with asthma. Epi is commonly used when someone is having a serious allergic reaction and when someone is having a heart attack.
While I've not seen any literature to support Primatene's effectiveness in anything other than an asthma attack, I have to wonder if Epi inhaled wouldn't work in other situations?
By the way, the FDA is trying to pull it off the market since the propellent gas in it - while safe for people - could hurt the ozone layer. So if you want to get it, you need to do so soon.
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Environmental survival
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Mississipp Mama
Valued Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 524 |
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Hi Femvet, did you let this baby shampoo get into your eye while washing your hair or did you put it in directly with some kind of dropper. Thanks
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jackson
Adviser Group Joined: January 26 2006 Status: Offline Points: 411 |
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Hi, you are absolutely correct that you MUST take into account age, weight and underlying conditions when taking any medicines. Tylenol can a very safe medicine but it must be taken properly. Also, Tylenol is not an NSAID. Motrin and Advil are examples of NSAIDs. Tylenol works by a different mechanism . (You can look at the tylenol website for more information about the differences) |
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My son had fevers SO bad,104-105,causes convolsions when he gets ANY virus that we have to give him Tylenol and 2 hours later Advil and back to Tylenol and 2 hours later Advil around the clock.....It has saved his life. I am also in medical field.
About Benadryl...my kids were on ADHD drugs and the only way for them to sleep,since the ADHD drugs are stimulants,was to give them Benadryl every night. Put them out like a light.
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If this bf is anything like other flu we will not need anything to induce sleep.
In '68 I had that flu that went around and don't remember the best part
of three days. My chief concern here is that I will not be able to stay
alert enough to take any medication.
Sick people need to be turned every so often to help prevent pneumonia from setting up. They need to sit up and cough. I think that sleeping in an upright position like in a recliner might help. Menthol like in Vicks helps some. Years ago before all these meds for asthma some people were told by doctors to smoke menthol cigarettes to reduce breaking difficulties. Vinegar added to humidifiers or vaporizers may help. It kills bacteria. I wish a fan put in a window pulling out (through room) also. Warm drinks help cool the body. Tea Tree Oil is anti-viral. I added a drop to a nose spray- works pretty good and should reduce infection. Garlic, Garlic, and more..helps reduce high blood pressure, is anti-viral and has natural antibiotic properties (natural sulfur). Most people who take it simply don't take enough (about 5 gloves or equivalent per day) but any is better than none. I had pneumonia so many times one winter the ER stopped bothering to do x-rays. When they saw me coming they said I either had pneumonia or bronchitis one again (both are treated the same) and put me on antibiotics. I got so angry over the way I was treated I searched for a way to help myself and learned about garlic. It broke that cycle. I haven't been back in almost 15 years. My plan of action is to drink homemade chicken soup with all the fat I can consume (where the healing power is) and take a double dose of my Elderberry Medicine. If I am alone I hope to sit fluids close by to drink when I rouse. White grape juice or wine, raisins , mulberries and more have the same anti-viral properties -white wine grapes contain shikimic acid and quercitin, the primary ingredients in the Chinese star anise plant used to make Tamiflu- thus I bought Resveratrol to take along with the garlic. Good luck to all. |
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MelodyAtHome
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2018 |
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Linda, I've had back problems for years and my doctor recommends 2 Tylenol and 2 Advil for my pain...Just Tylenol or just Advil doesn't do the trick. It helps take the edge off when the pain is really bad.
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Melody
Emergency Preparedness 911 http://emergencypreparedness911.blogspot.com/ |
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MelodyAtHome
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2018 |
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MaysDay, I agree with you on the Vicks. My daughter has asthma and to tell you the truth the vicks helps more than her inhalers. Also, when we all had bronchitis for about 3 months...would not go away...all the meds the doctor gave us just dried us out so bad it made it worse..the only thing that stopped the coughing and gave us relief was Vicks under the nose, on our necks and chest.
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Melody
Emergency Preparedness 911 http://emergencypreparedness911.blogspot.com/ |
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SusanT
Valued Member Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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I remember reading that if you put a water/hydrogen peroxide (I will have to look up the ratio, but I think it is either 3 or 4 parts water to 1 peroxide) in a vaporizer, it helps with pnuemonia.
For anyone who suffers from urinary tract infections - stock up on pure cranberry juice. I have also read in another thread in the forum that massive amounts of vitamin C will help. |
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90 mg/kg in 24 hours
weight in pounds divided by 2.2 = weight in kgs
weight in kgs x 90 mg = recomended 24 hour dose.
If your child weighs 44lbs:
44/2.2 =20kg
20kg x 90mg =1800 mg per 24 hours
Also be aware that Motrin taken on an empty stomach may cause ulcers. You do not want a bleeding ulce when medical care is not available.
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The problem with H5N1 - and what many people dont understand and accept - it attacks all internal organs not just the lungs
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Yes and more...
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over the counter medicines to help breathing is not going to help your liver or brain
its a perfect complete killer thats why its unusual
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Hi Kilt and Jhetta,
Good Morning! I honestly thought I was on top of H5N1 medically but you posted something I was unaware of. (Stating that H5N1 attacks multiple organ systems.) Do you have a reference site that I could look at?
Neither the CDC nor NIH make reference to N5H1 attacking other organs. Influenza symtoms normally produce a myalgia (diffuse muscular aches) which is systemic -- is that what you were referring too?
Please provide a link. -- Thanks and have a great day.
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This will probably not be a popular post, but my recommendation as a health professional is to go and see your doctor or PA or Nurse Clinician, who have the legal authority to prescribe medication. Nothing personal, but M.D. or not, I would not prescribe anything to anyone on the Internet. Each person is different, has allergies, a medical history, and all this should be taken in consideration in taking any medicine in any amount equivalent to a prescription dose. This applies specifically to combinining Tylenol, Aspirin, and a dose 800 mg. Motrin or Ibu.. "Bleeders", those taking anti-coagulants, individuals with kidney or liver disfunction, should not just down x number of pills with talking to or seeing a doctor.
The medical system is not merely set up for physicians to force patients to see them to get prescriptions. Taking certain medicines when you have other complicating conditions in prescription amounts can cause severe damage or even kill you. I realize not everyone has medical coverage or a lot of money to see physicians, but I would highly suggest you call your personal physician who is familiar with your medical history, allergies, and knows you and is qualified to prescribe medicine. The Internet is full of alledged doctors prescribing pain and other medicines at high prices without ever physically seeing the patient. I personally do not believe you can diagnose or treat a patient without seeing them, looking at their throat, nose, ears; palpating, feeling the lympth nodes, taking vitals, and reviewing their chart; and then running whatever diagnostic tests necessary, and having other doctors read x-rays, and check out panels and other blood tests. That is professional legal medicine. |
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Info re organ damage ..
But trying to find links for info re people dying with no chest infection , other organ damage was reported lots . Hope this is useful .
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Valkyrie
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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This was a reply to a post a few days ago .....I hope this might be of help...people often think of gatorade to avoid dehydration because of the potassium and fluids.A MUCH less expensive option and it stores well is Mortons lite salt.Its potassium chloride...exactly what they put in Gatorade(which really doesnt have that much anyway) and what most people dont get enough of by far.If you have vomiting or diarrehea you lose this quickly or also heavy sweating.One and 1/4 to one and 1/2 teaspoons is the total requirements for an average healthy person in a day and can be mixed with water or juice or whatever you want.I do the water and break up my dose into 3 or 4 times a day...doesnt taste great but is quick and cheap...gatorade is expensive and I dont need all that sugar.This stuff will keep you alive in a bad situation. Also is absolutely necessary to keep your blood pressure where it should be .If you are low in potassium you will feel like a wet noodle ...like your arms and legs weigh 500 pounds and you dont have the energy to pick them up.Also be sure to get your magnesium!It regulates over 200 vital body functions and one of those is it regulates your ability to KEEP your potassium in your body as well as calcium etc etc.Very important.If I could supplement only two things it would be these no question about it.
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reading between the lines can be most informative....
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medclinician, I agree with you completely. Taking meds without the proper guidance may kill you without ever getting BF. I think yours is a very important post and hopefully will bear more weight with people because of your profession. Thanks for the post. |
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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This is from a thread I posted in awhile back... it has pg numbers for MODS etc.
And here is anohter:
And more in the post I made on this thread see PB2 related info:
You can download Adobe Reader For Free which opens pdf files here.
From what I have read the scope of symptoms can be quite diverse many patients have fever and diarrhea but no respiratory symptoms. Human Influenza A/H5N1 Clinical Features & Spectrum
Covers the following regarding H5N1
Helpful Terms:
Multiple Organ Dysfunction Syndrome (MODS)
Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS)
Cytokine storm is a common designation for the technical term hypercytokinemia (sometimes spelled hypercytokinaemia).
Gastrointestinal Symptoms ~ Avian influenza should be included in the differential diagnosis for patients with predominantly gastrointestinal symptoms
Page 7 Cases that developed GIT symptoms
Uncomplicated H5N1 cases Number = 5 2 showed GIT symptoms
Severe H5N1 cases Number = 7 5 showed GIT symptoms
Page 16 Patient positive for H5N1 Presenting with Fever, SOB, Vomiting, Diarrhea
Page 17 Productive cough, SOB, Diarrhea
Page 20 "We report the first case of avian influenza in a patient with fever and diarrhea but no respiratory symptoms. Avian influenza should be included in the differential diagnosis for patients with predominantly gastrointestinal symptoms" H5N1 Positive 30 yr old female 1 wk diarrhea, nausea, & vomiting, no initial respiratory symptoms. Day 13 died of ARDS & MODS
Page 21 More examples of diarrhea in H5N1 positive patient
Page 25 Detailed Presentation Info regarding H5N1 and Fever, Headache, Mylalgia, Diarrhea, Abdominal Pain, Vomiting, etc.
Page 27, 28 Summary: Features human flu A/ H5N1 ~ Clinical: Fever, Cough, Dyspnoea; GIT (diarrhea, vomiting, abdo pain); URT: myalgia Complications: Cytokine storms, ARDS, renal failure, MODS, encephalitis
More info from a previous post: Multiple Organ Dysfunction Syndrome (MODS) and eningoencephalitis have been detected in H5N1 infections.
Meningoencephalitis
http://www.diseasesdatabase.com/umlsdef.asp?glngUserChoice=22543 "An inflammatory process involving the brain (ENCEPHALITIS) and meninges (MENINGITIS), most often produced by pathogenic organisms which invade the central nervous system, and occasionally by toxins, autoimmune disorders, and other conditions." Pathology of Human Influenza A (H5N1) Virus Infection in Cynomolgus Macaques http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/40/3/304 "...necrotizing broncho-interstitial pneumonia (4/4) similar to those found in primary influenza virus pneumonia in humans, with desquamation of respiratory epithelium (4/4), intra-alveolar hemorrhage (4/4), hyaline membrane formation (2/4), and infiltration with neutrophils and macrophages (4/4). Lesions in other organs consisted of a suppurative tonsillitis (2/4) and necrosis in lymphoid organs (1/4), kidney (1/4), and liver (1/4)..... The pathogenesis of MODS has not yet been elucidated. The primary defects are thought to involve the microcirculation and mitochondrial metabolism, and mechanisms may include the release of cytokines into the circulation. This is supported by the data of To et al., who found elevated levels of interferon-, soluble interleukin-2 receptor, and interleukin-6 in sera of two humans with fatal H5N1 virus infection.
We are currently investigating the role of different cytokines in the pathogenesis of H5N1 virus infection in our macaque model. " Proinflammatory cytokine responses induced by influenza A (H5N1) viruses in primary human alveolar and bronchial epithelial cells http://respiratory-research.com/content/6/1/135 "Conclusion: The H5N1/97 and H5N1/04 subtype influenza A viruses are more potent inducers of proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines in primary human respiratory epithelial cells than subtype H1N1 virus. We suggest that this hyper-induction of cytokines may be relevant to the pathogenesis of human H5N1 disease.... While dissemination outside the respiratory tract was not demonstrated in human H5N1 disease in 1997 and 2003 [4,7], there is some evidence that more recent H5N1 viruses may occasionally disseminate to multiple organs contributing to unusual disease manifestations such as meningo-encephalitis [8]. However, most patients with H5N1 disease had a primary viral pneumonia complicated by the syndromes of acute respiratory distress and multiple organ dysfunction [4-7,9] with lymphopenia and haemophagocytosis being notable findings. The syndromes of acute respiratory distress and multiple organ dysfunction as well as haemophagocytosis have previously been associated with cytokine dysregulation "
Cytotoxic therapy for severe avian influenza A (H5N1) infection. Here is another article
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hope for us
your right I have been doing the apple cider vinegar and water or ginger ale when i cant handle the taste anymore, I no longer use any tums etc of any kind . Be real careful when you chose your vingegar it cant be distilled, must be of amber color and have the " MOther" in it. keep drinking it 3 to 4 times a day and your skin and hair become amazing, I no longer suffer from refulx either and sleep on 2 pillows instead of 10
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Vstr
I have two of my 3 children with asthma, my daughter is what they call a brittle asthmatic , you don't get any worse , I am making sure above and beyond anything else I have tons of puffers for her, a new breathing machine and meds for it, I have her steroids on hand as well. I just spoke to my doc last friday, at Scrips Clinic here in San Diego( also a very good personal friend) about his thoughts of the avian flu, not as my doc but as my friend. He said yes it will happen, they just have no idea how bad it wil be. So I suggest you make sure you have ample meds on hand . I know mine wont survive, without the complications of flu, on a daily basis ,without her meds, and i cant personally think of any other meds that will work for asthma,those over the counter puffers are dangerous at best. you be safe
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janetn
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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Tylenol and Motrin are TWO DIFFERENT CLASSES OF MEDS. I know this for a fact. Had to take pharm to get through nursing school They can be alternated or taken together Motrin is an antiinflamatory Tlyenol is not. Alternating them for a stubborn fever gives you the benefit of both classes of drugs, plus the antinflamatory properties reduces the inflamation that is causeing the rise in temp and discomfort. Motrin is hard on your stomach and tylenol dosage instructions should be religously followed OVERDOSING causes liver problems. Taking the correct dose does not cause liver toxicity it is a commonly used drug and if it did cause live r problems at the correct dose most of the population of the US would be in line for a liver transplant.
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I live on the border. Been buying my prescrip meds in Mexico for years now. Just to give an example on cost prices: my Doc prescribed Combivent, a type of inhaled steroid for asthma...local pharmacy has it for $80. Mexico is at $25. Second example: My doc recently prescribed Advair (more of a maintenance thing, than instant relief). Local price = $120. Mexico price = $30
When it's time to stock up on these...when i'm done with the July-August contract season, i'll will be buying in quantity...IN MEXICO
NOTE: the combivent and the advair...as available in mexico... are made by the same company that the US version is made by. Packaging is identical (though it is in Spanish)
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If you have reflux problems, be careful with any ibuprophin product. (Motrin is one brand) Ibuprophin can make it worse.
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I am really glad you can still get you meds in mexico, I live in San Diego , and our boarder is the LAST place I want to be.!!! so skeered, its a mess there with all the aliens trying to get over, and americans really disliked ( nice way of saying it) Sooo, if you live in san diego,and go over again for yours, maybe you could take my list with you, and pick up some meds for me your far braver then I am!
Have a great day!!
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There was a news item on UK BBC tv last week to the effect that large/frequent doses of Ibuprufen caused increase in heart attacks. Not sufficient increase (+3 per thousand I think) to deter people who need it for very painful conditions like arthritis, but not to be used lightly. Beth
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Pebbles, I am stock piling as many inhalers as I can. That is not a lot though. Also have a nebulizer, but remember for that nebulizer to work you have to have power. I am looking to find something besides a generator which takes gas or some type of fuel to run, I have heard that car batterys with chargers can run some things, but I am not sure how to do it.
That is why we need this blog and website so much. IF DR WERE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE WE WOULDNT NEED THIS INFORMATION. DR.s will be way too busy to deal with this common stuff, it is up to each person to know their own medical conditions espcially in a pandemic, if you have meds your are taking, you better find out why, and what they can be mixes with and what they can not be mixed with. If someone is a bleeder and they take aspirin or ibuporphen I think they were bound to die young anyhow. It would be wonderful to have panels, and second opinions, and tests and all that, we have been told repeatedly that there will be no help. No medicine. So if my child who is asthmatic is having a severe ashtma attack, I am not going to sadly look at him and say, we have no second opinion, we have no panels, I have no prescription and no clue how to help you and your Dr. is too busy. That would be irresponsibile. The problem with talking to most medical professionals they either do not believe it is going to happen, or they dont know about it, or they are lying. You pick, but that dosent help us. Not one DR. I have talked to is saying, Yes lets right now while we can do the tests and get the meds you and your family neeed, in case I am too overwhlemes in the future, or no meds are available. Their families will have everything they need. I may find where a few DR.s live that is where you will find the medicine they dont want to help you to get now.
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dear Vstr
I have found a battery opearted Nebulizer by Omron its microair nebulizer NE-u22 on sale $199.00 its the size of an eye glass case and runs on AA batteries....yahooo praise God. address is
http://www.portablenebs.com this is the cheapest I have found . My doc is also a personal family friend,at Scricp clinic here in San Diego, He told us last friday he does believe it will be the avian flu that hits us. How bad it will be he said they are'nt sure. He will make sure I have enough meds for my daughter, so blessed...
I pray this helps you and gives you just a little more peace in our efforts to protect our loved ones
HUGS |
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FYI, My Wal-Mart Solar sidewalk lights use AA rechargeable batteries. This would give you several batteries that could be charged by the sun daily that you could perhaps use . It could also give you light in your home in the evening during power outages. |
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vstr, A new heavy duty battery will work for your needs. An adapter
(they are cheap, (also fragil-get an extra) can be purchased at many places. Call
your auto parts, local hardware or Lowe's? My last one came from Big
Lots (an overstock store). It would be great for back up just in case
we loose power for a while for whatever reason. I'm hoping that if we
get hit with a pandemic it will be in isolated clusters and people will
proceed but with caution.
I too am on albuteral. I thought my condition was getting a lot worse but not so; I learned the more one uses the steroids the less effective they become. My doctor put me back on Adviar yesterday to treat the condition hoping to reduce the need for the inhalers (which are not much relief anymore, anyway). I can tell a difference already so it is helping me. vstr, one homemade remedy that I promise will help with the children is stress reduction. I have a few ideas for comfort food for the grandchildren and that makes me feel better. You are so far ahead of so many people because you're thinking ahead. I feel like it will be enough and it will be in time. I wish you the best! |
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Thanks everyone, I believe that is the purpose of this website, is to make it so all of us are prepared as best we can be. We need to be self sufficient now more then ever.
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Jhetta,
Thanks for the reprint and the link -- it gave me a lot to read up on and think about.
K.
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