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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Bacterial Pneumonia Questions

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    Posted: February 26 2006 at 4:03pm

New to the forums, I've been lurking for a few weeks.

Hypothetical questions for the Doctors, and EMS, etc in the house.

If you are treating  Flu at home, how can you determine if it has progressed to a bacterial pnuemonia?

If you have access to #100 of cephalexin, metronidazole, and doxycycline 500mg each... which mono or polytherapy would you initiate in the hypothetical patient?

When would you initiate antibiotic therapy?

Can you alleviate some of the breathing difficulty by simply raising the head of the bed, or putting the patient in a recliner with the head elevated?

In a dry climate would humidity help or harm the breathing process?

 

Thanks,

I ran out of room for my signature

DISPENSER 4 HIRE

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 6:20pm
You can generally make an educated quess about some one getting a secondary bacterial infection,if they already have the flu by1} If they have started to feel a little better and then they suddenly feel worse with a worse cough,night sweats,and worse fatigue.2} if the person has the flu for what should be a normal length of time but instead of getting better,they just continue to get worse.3} In my opinion,anytime that anyone is coughing up blood or blood stained sputum,they should be on a broad spectrum antibiotic. ------ Of the antibiotics that you listed above I would start out with the tetracycline 500mg four times a day for a minimum of tens days. The other good antibiotic that you listed is cephalexin 500mg four times a day for at least 10 days. The metronidazole is a good antibiotic but only has specific uses such as if some one has drank bad water and they have a GI infection or parasite. Metronidazole is not for use in the lungs or sinusis. I hope that this helps and that it does not get me sued. Johnray  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 6:24pm
I for got that you can also just about always alleviate breathing by elevateing the head of the bed or having the person sleep in a recliner. Also,putting more moisture in the air just about always helps breathing. Johnray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 6:58pm
silver,in ionc and particulate form,will kill any bacterial or fungus,and will disactivate anyvirus as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 8:26pm
Virusil, I have no problem with alternative medicine and I have studied it quite abite both in a formal setting and in informal setting. There are many good things in alternative medicine and it may be all that we have if this virus hits,so by all means I would like for you keep teaching us on this board about alternative medicine. Because the government will be of absolutely no help. But I am also trained in conventional medicine and I also know that some of it is good and some of it is no good. The only trouble that I have with colloidal silver is that I have taken it myself for the conventional flu and colds and I have to say that it did not help me any.But I have patients that swear that is cures anything that they get. What do you think about "Sambucal" . Another thing that I have to always remind everyone of is that before we got modern antibiotics, people died by the thousands of various infection and all of the herbal medicines were around then. So, if you are not to mad at me by now,what I would like purpous is that we continue to compare various conventional medications and alternative medications so everyone on this board will have working knowledge of both medicines. If this Bird Flu hits,it is no telling which kind of medicine will help.Johnray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 6:36am
SILVER IS THE MINEARALTHAT WILL BEAT THE FLU VIRUS,the particle form between 0.286-10nm in volume,concentration must be 30ppm. for other nasties that can hit us the ionic form will be highly efficient,you said that you took silver and it diddnt work on you,cheq the quality of it............a true emulsion of silver will work,in99.9 of cases,tamiflu is worthless you have 36000death per year in the states from the flu...............do the math
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 6:00pm

Thank you Johnray for your replies.  Do you have any other "General Guidelines" for attempting to keep somebody comfortable?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frisky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2006 at 2:41pm
As mentioned above pneumonia in the flu patient generally occurs during convalescence i.e. there is a sudden worsening in the person who seems to be getting well. Symptoms to look for are a deep congested productive cough, high fever, pain in the chest, and a very tired and sick appearance. The most common organism is pneumococus. The best rx is a penicillin or cephalosporin such as Cephalexin 500 mg 4 times a day for 7 to 14 days depending on recovery. Prevention of 80% or more pneumococal infections can be achieved by the pneumovax shot.The second most common organism is staph aureus. My personal opinion is that this will be the big pnuemonia killer for several reasons.It is rapidly developing antibiotic resistance and is spreading rapidly. In the past  3 years I have gone from seeing very little MRSA  to seeing about 3 or 4 cases of virulent methicillin resistant staph skin infections every shift I work in the ER. The best  rx is a combination of doxycycline 100mg twice a day and bactrim DS twice a day. Tetracycline 500 mg 4 times a day will substitute for doxy.  Cephalexin is of no value in rx of staph.  Six months ago when I read Osterholm and Woodson I immediately got a pneumovax shot and filled rxes for tamiflu, amantidine, doxycycline, bactrim, phenergan, hydroxyzine, probenecid, azithromycin, bactroban cream, and hibiclens.       ER Doc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2006 at 7:58pm

Does anyone have a listing of what antibiotics lose their potency and or become toxic over time?
Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frisky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2006 at 12:23pm
In my message above I should have said in rx of pneumococcus  "a penicillin or cephalasporin such as cephalexin ..."  In reply to abx losing potency or becoming toxic a list would be impossible. On the other hand a set of principles is easy to set out. If fairly strict storage parameters are maintained virtually all  oral drugs are safe and effective for many years past expiration dates. For example my tamiflu rx has an expiration date 7/31/2006. In reality potency should remain very good for another 5 years minimum. Drug expiration dates are very strictly set. Does it really matter if  5years later a drug has lost 10% potency when you are taking 10 times as much as is needed? As for toxicity I can only remember learning in medical school about 2  oral drugs that break down into sufficent amounts of potentially toxic material to theoretically be a problem and both have been unavailable for about 25 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 3:41pm

I want to buy colloidal silver, any body has good websites where I can buy it from.. please advice

 
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I think there is somebody around here that might be able to help you on that.Wink
 
Seriously, though, PM user Hermes.
 
Plus check this thread:
 
Hope that helps!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 3:55pm
I think there is somebody around here that might be able to help you on that.Wink
 
Seriously, though, PM user Hermes.
 
Plus check this thread:
 
Hope that helps!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:04pm
 
http://www.vitacost.com/NaturalImmunogenicsSovereignSilverHydrosol
 
I am considering this product. any comments or suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kelnae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2006 at 8:58am
I buy my colloidal silver from the site
I mostly use it for sinus problems and believe me it works but it is good for alot of stuff.
Hope this helps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 10:33pm
Google Colidial Silver. I have purchased a gadget advised by a Israeli Messianic Rabi. He has claimed to use it for years, in case of chemichal or bio attacks in Israel. He uses a ounce per day as a maintenence med and more if he gets sick. You buy the gadget it comes with droppers bottles etc. and you use distilled water to make it yourself. Its a lot cheaper and for the price of a few gallons of distilled water you have your silver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2006 at 11:30am
Do you mean keeping a sick person comfortable or keeping a healthy person comfortable in a survival situation. Johnray1Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 2:56pm
I mean how to keep a sick person comfortable.  What procedures, or actions could make them feel better.  It seems sleeping in a recliner, keeping the humidity up, using otc meds, and having some proper antibiotics handy are the best treatment most of us can expect, or give.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 3:51pm
Yes,everything that ypu mentioned plus have aspirin,tylenol, and motrin on hand. Enough to treat a large number of people,because some people can take one of these and not the other ones and they do relieve temperatures and body aches.When several people are taking them,they go fast. Also keep a small trash can or bucket of some kind beside the  sick peoples beds so that they can cough and spit and throw up,without needing to run to the bath room every time. Also keep or get a large supply of disposible plastic liners for these small waste cans. Plastic  Grocery bags like you get at Wal-Mart and about every store these days are perfect. ------Another thing to think about is the possibilty of getting you homes windows knocked out or having to leave your home and tkae care of sick people out side or a house with no windows. Bugs get really bothersome really fast,so everyone should have mosqito netting of some kind and  two military type pnochos. One to lay on or make a tent out of and one to wear,because being wet for long periods of time can really get old also. You can get all of this type stuff cheap at your local military supplus store or on the internet.Keep all possibilities in mind and come up with simple cheap solutions for them.Extra large heavy duty garbage bags have numerous uses. Johnray1Smile
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