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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

cover-up in China

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Linda View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:09am

Expert says bird flu has killed 300 people in China

  • 18:27 24 November 2005
  • NewScientist.com news service
  • Debora MacKenzie
< =text/> < ="http://ad.adtech.de/?addyn|2.0|289|113593|1|170|target=nsad;loc=100;misc=1144237145900;grp=124056437;">  

Read of further developments to this story, here.

A respected Japanese scientist, who works with the World Health Organization, says 300 people have died of H5N1 bird flu in China, including seven cases caused by human-to-human transmission

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Is China hiding avian influenza?
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(Dec. 10, 2005)
By KATE WALKER
UPI Correspondent

 

WASHINGTON, Dec. 9 (UPI) -- There is growing concern that China may not be as open in its reporting of avian-influenza outbreaks as originally believed.

Guan Yi, a virologist from the University of Hong Kong, was reported in Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper as saying: "I don't know if they are brave enough to admit that they have the virus in every corner of the country.

......................................................................................................................

By Shane Harris
January/February 2006  pp. 38-43 (vol. 62, no. 01) © 2005 Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

  < = ="http://www.thebulletin.org/ad/adx.js" =text/> < = =text/> < = ="http://www.thebulletin.org/ad/adjs.php?n=379015325&what=zone:14&exclude=,&referer=http%3A//chinadigitaltimes.net/2006/01/the_bug_bloggers_shane_harris.php" =text/>  
 

 

 
Unconfirmed reports that more than 120 people have died from the avian flu in western China increase concerns--and significantly raise the stakes--of a Chinese government cover-up. If true, the consequences could be grave."

So began a June 2005 e-mail dispatched by two renowned Asia watchers at the Manhattan-based Eurasia Group, a private intelligence shop that monitors the globe for impending political crises and has a history of spotting disease outbreaks before the world press. More than 100 deaths was "grave" because such a high fatality rate suggested that avian flu had mutated out of its zoonotic state (spreading among birds and livestock) and was being transmitted human-to-human: the requisite stepping-stone to a global pandemic.

......................................................................................................................
WHO Avian Influenza Expert Says 300 Dead In China
Çë¿´²©Ñ¶Èȵ㣺ÇÝÁ÷¸Ð

(Nov. 25, 2005)
Dr. Masato Tashiro, a Japanese WHO consultant, believes that China has had 300 human deaths from avian influenza and is hiding the true extent of the disease from the rest of the world. Dr. Masato Tashiro, Director of the WHO Collaborating Center on Influenza at the National Institute of Infectious Diseases, Tokyo, and head of the Department of Virology of the National Institute of Infectious Disease (Japan), astonished colleagues with this information during a speech at a recent retirement dinner for a fellow virologist, Hans-Dieter Klenk.
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Official Chinese bird flu deaths could be 'tip of iceberg'
  • Updated 11:00 28 November 2005
  • NewScientist.com news service
  • Debora MacKenzie
 
Virologists consider the relative absence of human cases of bird flu in China unusual, given its widespread infection in birds. China has reported 22 poultry outbreaks in 10 provinces all across the country since mid-October 2005, the latest being on Friday.

The potential problem of underreporting may not only be technical. There are also claims that Chinese maskmanal personnel have been arrested for trying to report cases. China enforced severe restrictions on the investigation and reporting of suspected cases of bird flu in June 2005.

 
 
 

 
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:13am

I have been following bird flu reports from South Korea for many months. and I don't understand the recent apparent lack of reporting there.

 

http://search.hankooki.com/times/times_list.php?where=article&kw=bird+flu&co=kt&sa=all&st=0&so=1&mode=gisa 

 

There was lots of news in the papers up until about January 2006, and then the reports fizzled out. I

I also did a search on a google type site (sorry, lost the link due to my human error) and did searches on all possible links, to the words bird flu, virus, dead birds, pandemic, outbreak, among a few, and found them unavailable - mmmmm

 

So the upshot of all this is that, back in November 2005, 70% of S. Koreans were worried about BF - were able to read about chicken culls - exercises and precautions - in their own countries - then Zip - nothing.

Either SK is not concerned and the bird flu and it is all over for them, or they are very concerned and they are MMMC'ing it. (Managing the Masses with Media Control).

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spirit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:20am
Embarrassed Oh still the problem with my font size!
Please anyone message me through the members forum and help me fix this so that I don't come across like I am standing on my soap box in the middle of the village square preaching!
Thanks.
“How now, Spirit! whither wander you?”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote panbingliang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:25am
I am in China, actually we do not feel any threat of Bird Flu. I think government done a good job in controling the bird flu epidemic, they have experience from SARS in 2002. Especialy Zhejiang and Jiangsu province (East China) are more safty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:39am
Hi  panbingliang , I also feel that China has done well in many areas of combatting bird flu to this point.
 
Spirit thanks for the posting but why 2005? I don't see latest news or am I missing it?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomMI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:54am
Pan:
How do the Chinese authorities anticipate checking the ongoing influx of "all" the Western  farm workers who migrate into the East such as Zhejiang and Shanghai? I know this "migration" is an ongoing process. Are there checkpoints to check these people? Also, you mentioned "epidemic"? Can you clarify what that means?
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Originally posted by trish trish wrote:

If you google the name "Dr. Masato Tashiro", you will see countless references to his denying the above report .
 
 
 


This is all OLD news.  The Japanese doctor did, indeed, present those numbers at the conference in Marburg. Many of the doctors present confirmed that the numbers were projected on a board and that Tashiro called attention directly to the over 300 dead statistic.  The implication was that China had many many more dead than the world thought.

I am convinced that their total dead is in the tens of thousands.  China has successfully hidden the deaths because, for years, there was no "spot to mark" on the official death form for H5N1. 

All deaths had to be marked on the form by checking one of the boxes on the form.  Since there was no box for H5N1, nobody died from H5N1. 

Both times that H5N1 appeared in Hong Kong, it spread from China where it was killing in the countryside.  The deaths in Hong Kong were tabulated. Those in China were all pneumonia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 10:07am
Originally posted by panbingliang panbingliang wrote:

I am in China, actually we do not feel any threat of Bird Flu. I think government done a good job in controling the bird flu epidemic, they have experience from SARS in 2002. Especialy Zhejiang and Jiangsu province (East China) are more safty.
Give me a damn break will you?  C'mon...the only thing the Chinese government has been "good at controlling" is the information as to how extentsive the H5N1 has been in China.
 
It could kill a million Chinese and they wouldn't say a damn word.  Too afraid that the rest of the world would stop taking in their exports and cause an economic collapse for China.
 
Besides that, I figure that if it does go or has gone over the edge there in China, that the Communists will be doing everything in their power to export the H2H strain to every other country in the world, if in fact they haven't already done so or are in the process  of doing so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 10:39am
I also agree with Thomas Angel, SARS was good lesson on what not to say about the epidemic. Covered it up until the whole world is infected. When you take your dog for a walk you make him sh*t in your neighbor’s lawn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlerdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 10:46am
"Besides that, I figure that if it does go or has gone over the edge there in China, that the Communists will be doing everything in their power to export the H2H strain to every other country in the world, if in fact they haven't already done so or are in the process  of doing so. "
 
That's fairly severe statement, Thomas!  If that is their actions, that would change world pandemic preparedness strategies alot! What is the basis for your thinking?
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 10:57am
Let me see if Chain will admit to H2H what do you think will happened next.
a. All flights from China or the region will be canceled
b. All goods shipments will be canceled
c. ALL POSSIBLE CONTACTS WILL BE CANCELED
d. CHINA WILL BE UNDER quarantined
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhetta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 10:58am
Actually I am worried about both India and China. There are always deaths and sometimes large outbreaks attributed to environmental issues, influenza's and diseases. Deaths from these have been occurring for years and are accurate.
 
However some of the post here have been outlining outbreaks with fever, gastro complaints and encephalitis/headache which can be H5N1 symptoms. Hopefully they are not H5N1.  At the very least they are weakening people in greater risk of exposure in areas know to be at risk.
 
Both China and India have a lot to lose if they admit H2H from an economic stand point!  Really this is true for every country but more so for  countries with large business concerns.
 
Russia & Germany seems to be forth coming and responsible in their H5N1 responses.
 
Africa is a concern as well, they just do not have the resources to deal with it!
 
I am Concerned about the facts that H5N1 has spread across the globe and that it is showing up in many mammals; I am becoming increasingly worried... just have a bad feeling!
 
This does not make me feel any better
Chicks being smuggled in from India: Poultry farm owners fear bird flu outbreak
By BDNEWS, Rajshahi
Wed, 5 Apr 2006, 11:03:00

http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/publish/article_26931.shtml
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Fiddlerdave Fiddlerdave wrote:

"Besides that, I figure that if it does go or has gone over the edge there in China, that the Communists will be doing everything in their power to export the H2H strain to every other country in the world, if in fact they haven't already done so or are in the process  of doing so. "
 
That's fairly severe statement, Thomas!  If that is their actions, that would change world pandemic preparedness strategies alot! What is the basis for your thinking?
They are communists.  Part of the communistic ideolgy since it's inception has been world domination of that ideology, to conquer democracy and erase it.  China is to this day run by militaristic leaders, still hell bent on success.  China has the largest standing army in the world.
If China begins to think that it is going to loose half it's population ( roughly 300 miliion casualties) to H5N1, it is only logical that they would see this as upsetting the balance of power, that the loss would be a threat, and don't kid yourself:  If they have a naturally ocurring bio-weapon they can use to level the "playing field", those bastards will do everything they can to insure that the rest of the globe gets their share and will export it, especially to the US.
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I agree with you TA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 11:49am
Give me a damn break will you?  C'mon...the only thing the Chinese government has been "good at controlling" is the information as to how extentsive the H5N1 has been in China
 
Well I think that member will think twice about posting again 
 
It could kill a million Chinese and they wouldn't say a damn word.  Too afraid that the rest of the world would stop taking in their exports and cause an economic collapse for China.
 
Besides that, I figure that if it does go or has gone over the edge there in China, that the Communists will be doing everything in their power to export the H2H strain to every other country in the world, if in fact they haven't already done so or are in the process  of doing so
 

What would be the sense in that? It doenst help them? Get a Grip 

 
a. All flights from China or the region will be canceled
b. All goods shipments will be canceled
c. ALL POSSIBLE CONTACTS WILL BE CANCELED
d. CHINA WILL BE UNDER quarantined
 

If china is without shipments closes it’s borders stops air travel and has contracts canceled for a pandemic, who comes out ahead? China or other countries like the US. Think about it.

 

 

 

 

That is why they will do a lot to protect their economy especially HK for financial reasons. The last thing they are going to do is let it run rampant unless it is just impossible to contain.

 

Stop taking their exports Well the US sure takes a lot of those. Do you think the Us is ready to swear off China? Are you aware of the foothold they have have there? I don’t see any US companies backing out do you?

 

China and HK have had experience with SARs

How will the US do with a BF  any better? Oh wait seems the government here is saying collapse of the economy . But I’m sure it will be easier to cull and quarantine here , Some how I doubt that!

 

Instead of using your energy to attack other countries why don’t you use that energy to persuade our government to do a bit more preparing. But it’s to late for that isn’t it we are on our own,according to them.

 
 I also agree with Thomas Angel, SARS was good lesson on what not to say about the epidemic. Covered it up until the whole world is infected. When you take your dog for a walk you make him sh*t in your neighbor’s lawn 
 
The whole world was infected? Maybe you do, hope your neighbors are watching their step!

 

 
 
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They are communists.  Part of the communistic ideolgy since it's inception has been world domination of that ideology, to conquer democracy and erase it.  China is to this day run by militaristic leaders, still hell bent on success.  China has the largest standing army in the world.
If China begins to think that it is going to loose half it's population ( roughly 300 miliion casualties) to H5N1, it is only logical that they would see this as upsetting the balance of power, that the loss would be a threat, and don't kid yourself:  If they have a naturally ocurring bio-weapon they can use to level the "playing field", those bastards will do everything they can to insure that the rest of the globe gets their share and will export it, especially to the US.  
 
gee I guess that's why they are over here trying to convert us? No wait that was westerners over there trying to push their ideals on them. Then when unsuccessful they can't understand why. Not the first time in history
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Folks, one thing to keep in mind is China's ability to manufacture is now critical to the US's economy, and even survival.  We purchase over a trillion dollars worth of products per year, with 800 billion or so on annually on deficit now.  Not all those products are trinkets - much of our fundamental technologies are made (and engineered) there.  I would suggest, that if China is indeed bent on our destruction, we should be working on a whole new level of preps, because they have the power now!  My take on their goals is to simply show up with all our IOU's sometime, and simply repossess the USA. (Unless the oil countries beat them to it.)  Until then they'd like the USA to keep consuming ever more goods from them.  Does that make us "useful idiots"?Confused
 
I did notice some time ago here that someone posted pet food from Thailand? that had been irradiated, which would neutralize the virus.  A good technology to have on hand for imports or any exchange.  You could put your mail, or any goods through it (not sure it would get through metal.)
Dave
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Originally posted by sweets sweets wrote:

They are communists.  Part of the communistic ideolgy since it's inception has been world domination of that ideology, to conquer democracy and erase it.  China is to this day run by militaristic leaders, still hell bent on success.  China has the largest standing army in the world.
If China begins to think that it is going to loose half it's population ( roughly 300 miliion casualties) to H5N1, it is only logical that they would see this as upsetting the balance of power, that the loss would be a threat, and don't kid yourself:  If they have a naturally ocurring bio-weapon they can use to level the "playing field", those bastards will do everything they can to insure that the rest of the globe gets their share and will export it, especially to the US.  
 
gee I guess that's why they are over here trying to convert us? No wait that was westerners over there trying to push their ideals on them. Then when unsuccessful they can't understand why. Not the first time in history
Sweets,  You just as entitled to your opinion as anyone else that hits this forum.
 
There is great evil in this world.  I have seen it.  Perhaps you have not, or perhaps you are a person who would never give such a scenario any thought or credibility.  That's allright.  I am really glad that everyone doesn't spend their days like I spend mine, but I do think everyone should be open to a logical analysis of the situation, and that's what my post was, a logical analysis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NZ er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 12:27pm
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Edited by NZ er - April 25 2006 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 12:31pm

I agree Fiddlerdave!

There is great evil in this world.  I have seen it.  Perhaps you have not, or perhaps you are a person who would never give such a scenario any thought or credibility.  That's allright.  I am really glad that everyone doesn't spend their days like I spend mine, but I do think everyone should be open to a logical analysis of the situation, and that's what my post was, a logical analysis. 
 
I would call it your opinion Which is my opinion . Which we are all intitled to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 12:35pm
panlingbiang....Please don't let anyone here bully you off these boards. You are free to say what you feel here. I can only hope you are being truthful but the case is that if the reports are the truth then you really couldn't say could you? Isn't it true that journalists amd scientists are going underground and reaching out on the net for the fear of imprisonment?  Why are there are no stories of Americans being thrown in jail for reporting news or telling the truth about disease....yet when a person goes onto a Chinese search engine and has what is being told translated...the stories are horrific....truly unbelievable but there are so many....doesn't that imply that they are at least partly true?
Even without the stories I can pull up news releases from the Chinese Gov. Where they claim 6 human deaths from bird flu...confirmed and then 2 weeks later the number drops....oops.
China culled chickens for years and all the time saying that there were no human cases.....not until that is....other countries started having human cases.....and not until others started pointing out that there must be some....
The virus has changed many times in China....Isn't this why the WHO was not given samples? Surely they would show that the mutations had been over time.
Maybe you believe what you wrote and I commend you for sticking up for your country......or maybe you are afraid of being thrown in jail. It's hard to say. But if you are in China then open your eyes....and open your mind....and your heart.....and then open your mouth and tell us what is going on.
 
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 12:37pm

“My thought on this is that mankind will pay the BIGGIST price ever if we cannot pull together on this one.. and perhaps that may be impossible”

Yes that is the logical way But Are we ready for
 One Government
 One set of Laws
 One Language
 One GOD  

Sounds Like End of Times

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NZ er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 12:58pm
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Edited by NZ er - April 25 2006 at 4:23pm
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Thomas and others-
Please take it easy on the poster from China. He/she has no control over what goes on there any more than we do and the poster may tell the thruth the way it is being told her him/her.
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Edited by NZ er - April 25 2006 at 3:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:12pm
Let's just let the logical progression of a train of thought run along the track here for another lil' tidbit that has been talked about for some length of time between myself and some close associates:
 
Thermo-nuclear exchanges between countries and nations is also a possibilty in relationship to the gravity of the situation regarding wipe-outs of populations that bring about changes in balances of geo-political power.
 
We can take Pakistan and India as an example for use here.  They both have nukes, delivery systems, are at each others throats for many years.  What's to keep India from saying "what the hell, we're all goners and Pakistan is barely effected by the pandemic at this point, so let's just unleash the nukes on them!"  So Pakistan gets hit, and retailiates with  theirs.  This sets a precedent for every country that has nukes and long-standing "grievances' with their enemys, and further nuclear exchanges take place....
 
Could it happen?  Certainly.  Is there anything anyone could do to stop it?  No.  Have most of you here in this forum even considered that it could happen?  My guess is no.
 
I wouldn't say I "get paid" to be part of the little thinktank I participate in, but I would say that anything is within the realm of possiblity once the slide downhill into the abyss starts in earnest, and discussing these things, being aware of them provides me with a little different perspective which in and of itself pays dividends.
I LIKE SCARY RIDES
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by trish trish wrote:

If you google the name "Dr. Masato Tashiro", you will see countless references to his denying the above report .
 
 
 
 
Trish....This isn't a denial....Please read the stories you posted....He denies being interviewed and states that he did not goive a number but that what the Chinese Govt. tells us is the "tip of the iceburg"....He get's around it and who even knows which statement is true but both carry the same message. Also...do you have any idea what happens to Dr.s and scientists or anyone who gives an account that does not line up with the chinese govt.'s? The origional story says that he recieved his information from collegues in China. 
Google is not a reliable search engine to get all the news....If you want to google something then try googling search engine china or search engine Japan and take another look.
 
Who is denying it?
China Denies Bird Flu Cover-up

Red Orbit reports that the China's Ministry of Health is denying an accusation by a Japanese scientist that China was covering up hundreds of human bird flu deaths.
 
 
Even the reporter of the "denial" says she doesn't know who to believe....but like I said.. is there a difference between 300 and 7 as the tip of the iceburg? Yep....7 as the tip of the iceburg would probably be worse.
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:14pm
No some people will lose more some less it’s life
Some poor some rich some sick some healthy some lucky some not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:18pm
I like scary rides.
I LIKE SCARY RIDES
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plainsman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:24pm
Then there's always a chance it could pull people together. If I remember correctly, India sent supplies to Pakistan after the earthquake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NZ er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:28pm
xx

Edited by NZ er - April 25 2006 at 4:35pm
Land of the Long White Cloud
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:30pm
US has been called the Policeman of the world
What happens if the policeman gets sick?
Wars between countries maybe possible to control influx of immigrants that are looking to food shelter medicine,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JaxMax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:32pm
Thomas Angel-
 
We have discussed your nuclear scenario at length- the Samson Option.It is particularly relevant if you have a predominantly Islamic nuclear country that is decimated by H5N1. 
He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:42pm
panlingbiang: Always good to hear from anyone in China. I hope that you keep posting your views. I look forward to learning something about your country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by plainsman plainsman wrote:

Then there's always a chance it could pull people together. If I remember correctly, India sent supplies to Pakistan after the earthquake.
 
And if I remember right....didn't Pakistan send them back?
 
 
Really I quit worrying about being nuked back in the fourth grade when we used to have bomb drills....remember those? everyone had to crawl under their desks....even then at age 10 we knew it would be no help.
thing about being nuked is to hope your up wind.
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plainsman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:50pm
At first they refused the aid, then later accepted it, is the way I remember it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mondegreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by panbingliang panbingliang wrote:

I am in China, actually we do not feel any threat of Bird Flu. I think government done a good job in controling the bird flu epidemic, they have experience from SARS in 2002. Especialy Zhejiang and Jiangsu province (East China) are more safty.
 
\Good to see someone posting from China it can be productive if you will stay on the board and post information about what is going on in relation with the H5N1. Like all great Nations information is not always the way we wish it to be, however one voice can change a world. I believe that prior to the bird deaths at the Quinhai lake problem there was information going out that there was a quarintine area of 100 sq miles north west of the lake. I only ran across it once and never could find it again. My first assumption was that the Chinese government was expanding the Poultry Industry by building a super city just for poulty, but after the Quinhai lake deaths I began to get a different idea such as there was something that had happened and china was controlling this area for some purpose. Can you help me on this problem Panbingliang.Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:56pm
I worked in the retail trade for a while. Prove a point with the customer and you are clever for five minutes. And then? Then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 1:59pm
Wow...!

Not much "news" in this string.  How many of you have actually been to China?  Have a personal connection with a Chinese national through work?  I doubt anyone among us is a true expert on the political-social-economic structures, forces, or realities of modern China. 

I have been fortunate enough to have been China on business.  China is an economic powerhouse, busting at the seams with energy, with a large number of very talent people and an absolute devotion to education.  They also  finance most of our national debt.  Here in the Northwest it is very easy to see how linked our two countries are.

Be careful of xenophobia...it doesn't help. Its not constructive and it leads to tremendousy negative consequences throughout history.   All governments, regardless of ideology, have a vested interest in controlling panic and protecting their economies.

As citizens we can do our part ot keep them honest, but this string makes a lot of unsupportable, sweeping statements that are at best not helpful and at worse could be considered xenophobic and attacking in tone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlerdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 2:14pm
Wlecome, Panbingliang!
 
 Don't be too hard on  Panbingliang to "know" what's going on in China!!Smile  How many people here in the USA would have any idea of what's happening with BF, with the news media reports a keystroke away! Not to mention there's quite a bit of news that is not reported here domestically, yet is common in foreign newspapers. She may see less unedited information than we do, unless something happens in her own neighborhood.  Heck, I watched the LA riots on TV, never saw a hint here, next door, in my daily life.
 
 My one trip to China, I did not talk to a single person who had much to say about media or TV.  Work and study were the major ways energy was spent in my acquaintances.  The level of entreprenurial energy was awesome.
Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Fiddlerdave Fiddlerdave wrote:

Wlecome, Panbingliang!
 
 I watched the LA riots on TV, never saw a hint here, next door, in my daily life.
 
 
I'm sorry but your statement contradicts itself.....in your daily life....your routine....you saw the riots on tv.
It proves the opposit point.....how does Panbinglang and others in China see things? Probly just like us not at all unless it's next door....but in our daily lives it doesn't have to be next door....in our daily lives it's in our living rooms.
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 2:34pm

The thing I like about this forum is that there are so many thought proceeses moving along and all can be voiced.  There is such a variety of informative, well versed, curious souls here that are capeable of great insights!  The amount of time and energy that is spent in researching all the posts that are here is incomprehensible to me!  I come to this forum, not just to see what I need to prepare for the real possibility of a world-wide pandemic, but also to learn from the brainstorming and sharing between you all.   The great thing about being an American is the fact that all this can happen on this very site!  To have an individual such as Panbingliang be able to particiapte in this forum is a testiment to our freedoms appreciated.  Panbingliang, as you can see from the banter that just went back and forth regarding your posting, you can speak your mind, and some may agree, some may not.  It's the freedom of those disagreements that we all enjoy posessing in the USA!  Our hope is that you do not mistake it for a defeat in your opinion, or an indication that your thoughts are not welcome (... in our country, we agree to disagree ...) but continue to share the information that you can give regarding the situation in your country as you see it, hear it and understand it.  This site is where YOU too, can share in the FREEDOM to express yourself and share openly without fear!-k

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 2:35pm
oops...sorry Dave I just re-read your post and I think we were kind of trying to make the same point
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhetta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2006 at 2:47pm
I try and find facts... not always easy!
 
I do not find this Commentary from recombinomics.com particularly comforting.  It is nice to see that China, Malaysia & Laos have released recent sequences to the scientific community.

"Fujian H5N1 Bird Flu Spreads Through China and Southeast Asia

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/04040603/H5N1_Fujian_Spread.htmlRecombinomics Commentary
April 4, 2006

Recent
release of HA sequences from H5N1 infected patients in Anhui and Guangxi provinces in China has focused attention on the sequences previously released from a duck in Fujian Province.  The human HA sequences had a cleavage site of RERRRKR, a glycosylation site linked to A158T, changes near the receptor binding domain (P185S and R193K, and a change just upsteam from the HA cleavage site, Q317L.  All of these changes were found in the Fujian duck sequences.

2006 H5N1 sequences from Malaysia (Wilayah Persekutan near Kuala Lampur) and Laos (isolated 02/22/06) have been released at Los Alamos and they have the same changes.  In addition, the NA sequences of the 2006 isolates have been released, and they are also closely related to the NA sequence from the Fujian duck.  The presence of these sequences in Fujian, Anhui, and Guangxi, including all three public human H5N1 sequences from China, and now in the two 2006 isolates from Malaysia and Laos, raise concerns that this sequences is being widely distributed in China and southeast Asia.

The wide distribution and associate with human cases in China is cause for concern.  Distribution is likely to be linked to migratory birds and movement into areas which have had human H5N1 cases in the past creates new opportunities for recombination.  Changes in the receptor binding domain,
S227N in isolates from Hong Kong, sans Fujian Province, and Vietnam raise concerns that the changes near the receptor binding domain make increase efficiencies in transmission to humans.  Moreover, one of the human isolates from China has an additional change, Q226R, within the receptor binding domain.

This emerging sequence from Fujian province is not likely to appreciably cross react with a vaccine directed against the HA H5N1 sequence from Vietnam or Indonesia.  Thus, a new pandemic vaccine related to this emerging sequence is warranted.  As H5N1 continues to rapidly evolve via recombination, it is necessary to recognize this fundament mechanism of drifts and shifts and to target existing H5N1 for vaccine development and immunization now, before the H5N1 efficiency markedly increases."

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