| PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL |
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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
cover-up in China |
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Linda 
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Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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 Posted: April 05 2006 at 3:25pm |
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Well Said Ready Mom!
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Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 4:27pm |
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Dear Moderators,
I see on another thread that you plan to add a language translator to this forum. Don't waste your money! Any reasonable person from another country who had to endure what our chinese guest had to endure today, would not bother to return. I can't say that I blame them.
The passions we hold about this situation do not excuse rudeness, disrespect and outright abuse. What supposedly passes for freedom of speech on this site is really nothing more than sanctioned ignorance, immaturity, and irresponsible demagogery.
The ease with which anyone can say anything they choose about anyone without any responsibility or accountability for their actions is appaling!
I am growing increasingly disappointed in the moderation of this site. Example: In the interest of not loosing members, you gave maskman his own site. Well, it didn't work, he's still out there driveling on about god only knows what - but not on the sight you gave him!
I'll watch for awhile to see what happens, but if things don't change for everyone's benefit ( and not my personal needs) , I'll find another community.
Respectfully
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Linda
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Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:04pm |
Actually....our guest from China didn't have any qualms about calling me a spamer when I gave another member info on another site they asked about. And if you look at the order of the threads there were posts of agreement to start and farther down....The person in question logged off long before any negativer opinions were given. I know they were logged off when I gave mine....Just because someone happens to log off and go about their life for awhile doesn't mean they've been run off the forum.
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Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
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Trident/Delta
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Joined: March 15 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:22pm |
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Snick, There seems to be a question as to whether or not the poster in question really was from China. Having just joined the forum yesterday, it should be noted that the post catagorically discredited nearly everything we have discovered about H5 in China.
For the very reasons that were given, don't you even entertain the POSSIBILITY that there could be a disinformation campaign focused at H5 info sites.
For someone that claims to have been "on-the-job", you certainly have lost your "cop-sense" (skepticism).
T/D
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:49pm |
So, because some members question whether the poster was genuine, that somehow excuses the disrepectul political and ideological diatribes that followed. Exactly, what would be lost by giving the benefit of the doubt until you had more information. Anybody can pretend to be anyone they want on this site. Fla Medic's admission that he was not what he pretended to be is a recent case in point - and member forgave him!
I have also been aware that former members/staff are not happy about this forum. I don't know the details, so I leave it to the staff to sort that out. I also suspect that some current members are complicit in activity that is directed against this forum. Again, I leave that to the staff. But, I am aware. As for 'others' trying to discredit this site, not ready to go there yet because it isn't logically necessary for 'them' to do so. 'They' could use more more sophisticated technology to just shut you down.
As for my 'skeptisism'; Just because I post things like 'Whom will we become?', or 'What will we do if nothing happens?' does not mean I am naive. I lost my naivete in law enforcement. Although I haven't really displayed it here, I came to this site very well informed about viruses, epidemiology, and H5N!. That is because I am a critical thinker. It is possible to think critically without becoming a skeptic.
The gist of your post actually makes my point. Too often, we make assumptions and judgements about people, events, and alleged facts that are based upon very cursory examination and intial impressions. From there we place people, events and things into previously existing categories, thinking all the while that we have understood them.
Sorry, TD. I respect what you do, but I very much disagree.
Peace,
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sweets
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Joined: February 08 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:50pm |
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Snicklefritz I'm with you!
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I'm not a ribbering Jidiot!
www.exaltedshrimp.com |
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Maryk
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:54pm |
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This is old news. i have seen it posted several times. I even posted similar article's. This is from Dec. 2005. If 300 people had bf back in Dec. 2005 and it was H2H then they must have contained it or it's BS otherwise it would be a H5n1 h2h pandemic. I thought this was the News link. I hate wasting my time going thru these posts only to find people fighting over words. Lets have some NEWS here |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 5:57pm |
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Thank you Sweets. Agreed MaryK!
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Trident/Delta
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Joined: March 15 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:13pm |
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Well snick , i'm sorry you feel that way. But, lets just recap here shall we..... When mods jump in to straighten things out we get accused of censorship and everything short og Pearl Harbor. But when we let social discourse take its natural path, we are wrong for not intervening.
You can't have it both ways.
You may not agree with what was said, but for the same reason the Chinese visitor has the right to express his/her opinion, Thomas Angel has the same right.
I watched the entire exchange. There was no line crossed. Again, you may not like it, but both parties were within their rights.
T/D
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Jhetta
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Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:35pm |
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Governments and media mislead thier people... ours included...
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Thomas Angel
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Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:51pm |
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Hey everyone, I'll not apologize for posting here, but I think everyone needs to think about what was said, the words, not whatever intent people care to read into them. Some of you are pissed because I gave SZ what she had coming in no uncertain terms, and I see this reflected in your responses to what I post. Separate that crap. I didn't have time to waste with "personalities games" before and I don't have the time to do it now. I'm not asking anyone to like me. This isn't a personality contest here. I am here because what I know can save some people and I'm not a damn bit shy about putting it in print.My first sentence which seems to have offended some people's tender sensibilties was: "Give me a damn break will you? C'mon...the only thing the Chinese government has been "good at controlling" is the information as to how extentsive the H5N1 has been in China."
And it is TRUTH.
It wouldn't have mattered if the person that made the post was from Australia, Sweden, or the planet Mars. I wouldn't have changed my response to such an absurd statement that the Chinese Government was "good at controlling the bird flu epidemic" because they are not, plain and simple, their track record proves that beyond any doubt.
That the Chinese government is devious, engaged in cover-ups, concealing the truth, witholding H5 sequences and virul samples from the WHO and the rest of the world is fact. Facts which irritate me to no end, so when someone comes on this forum and makes a post that flys in the face of what is known as facts I am going to respond. I'm not going soften up my posts just because a few people here think I am being mean. I'm not a mean person, just serious. If some of you find seriousness, the truth, and my lack of abilty or willingness to kiss ass and soften my posts, hell, just don't read them.
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I LIKE SCARY RIDES
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Trident/Delta
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Joined: March 15 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:53pm |
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......Sigh.....
T/D
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sweets
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Joined: February 08 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:56pm |
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Double sigh
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I'm not a ribbering Jidiot!
www.exaltedshrimp.com |
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plainsman
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:57pm |
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I've always believed in till proven guilty.
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 7:00pm |
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Dear members,
It was not my intention to start a war with any of you, or with the staff. If you supported me, thank you. Regardless, I am read to move on.
Peace
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Thomas Angel
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Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 7:00pm |
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Triple sigh |
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I LIKE SCARY RIDES
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plainsman
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Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 177 |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 7:06pm |
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Oh boy, here we go again. I've been down graded to guest group. Can no longer edit my posts. Reckon I'm one step out the door - again.
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 8:24pm |
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Snick --
I am with you, this forum has truly changed in tone just in teh few weeks I have been on. Absolutely outside the realm of civilized productive exchange. I'm ready for something else more productive and insightful. I'm ready to move too. |
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Posted: April 05 2006 at 9:18pm |
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Dear Thomas Angel, Having had worked with the underground church in China I can confidently say CHINA LIES. They kidnap, torture and murder without blinking. They have an agenda, world domination. Those who haven't had first hand experience with their obsession with world control can't possibly understand the cold, calculated method in which they pride themselves. This Godless, materialistic state, rules with an iron fist. Keep preachin' the truth. Mary Kay |
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 3:43am |
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With our global ecomony, the prospect of proven transmission in any country would be devastating. Not only to the economy of that country, but to the world.
Our mad cow cases here created havoc with specific industries and exports. Since we don't actually manufacture much here anymore, most of our goods are coming from other countries. It's hard for me to imagine that any nation could contain this thing once it's easily transmitted. Economic fallout is bound to follow for every nation, not just the first infected, but I fear that economic concerns will be stronger than ethical concerns and whereever it begins, it's likely to be covered up for too long. I'm not even sure that the US wouldn't try to cover it up for economic reasons. Just my opinon, but I don't expect any nation to be forthcoming when TSHTF in their backyard. They all have too much to lose in the short term, which only increases the risk for everyone in the long term. |
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oknut
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Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 847 |
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 3:44am |
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Sorry, that was me who just posted, but I somehow got logged out before posting it.
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Scotty
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Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 4:08am |
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Just to register the fact that I seem to be out of step. I get absolutely nothing from "I agree with my friend". Its about as stimulating as reading steam tables. I enjoy the debate and I am happy to hear opposing views. If someone could wave a magic wand and have all of us agree then they would be wise not to wave it. The result would be dull, boring, tedious and ultimately terminal for this site. Who is going to log in to read "me too" five hundred times a day?
I know that some of you think an orderly board indicates respectability and on that point I will just have to agree to differ.
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Spirit
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Joined: April 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 4:45am |
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Wow...check you all out! What a discussion, sorry I missed it. Sweets - you were wondering about the Korean news being from 2005 and that you may have missed something. I have the same feeling. For some reason the news discussed in the papers fizzled out to a large degree. I am just going to give you the snippets of the last 3 reports and just look at the subject matter and the dates. You are all so right in your arguments. There are many approaches and reasons behind every member’s posts. For example, In Korea - I mean South Korea; there is effectively no news about the Bird Flu. It is very limited. In fact, people in Korea right would have a very limited view on how pervasive the bird flu is. They have facts controaled facts about where it is, but if no one is discussing something publicly, then there is no news. Hence a Korean (South) posting here might say, "yes - bird flu exists, but our government is watching out for it. Yes we had bird flu in 2004 and our nation is saddened that in 2004, four of our workers contracted H5N1 but they all survived. We had so hoped the kimchi had protected us but it sadly seems to be not the case. We had practice culls and precautionary disinfections, but no bird flu. Our birds in JeJu Island died, but it was not bird flu. We are vigilant." You see it yourself in America when you go to the grocery store and you mention the bird flu and people go - Oh yea - what's that whole deal about Tuna? It's all in how media is managed. MMMC Media Managing Mass Control. I realize you are all talking about China - but this constipation in the S. Korean news has really gotten my attention. I didn't expect it from them. There's troubling news tonight about Tamiflu, the drug which so many people are buying out of concern over the deadly avian flu. Governments around the country, have _ around the world, have been...
Date : 2006/03/13 15:56 Dreadful Spread of Bird Flu:Dreadful Spread of Avian Flu Water-Tight Preparations Needed to Prevent Outbreak Avian influenza (AI) is spreading at an alarming pace around the world. The outbreak of the disease has been confirmed in a growing number of countries in...
Systematic Marketing Need For Kimchi:
It is a disappointment that South Korea had a human bird flu case at the outset of marketing kimchi as a dish that has health benefits of preventing bird flu. LG Electronics launched this month its...
Date : 2006/03/05 15:44 Avian FLu Warning:Avian Flu New Warning First Cases of Human Infection Should Sound Alarm As far as avian influenza (AI) is concerned, Korea appeared to be a model country, overcoming its outbreak in three months without human infection. So the discovery... When you read these article – you get a sense of a skillfully crafted ballet/dance of information. Just enough not to really spark suspicion, but still highly control the info. Here's the link. I'm happy to hear what your take is on this.
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“How now, Spirit! whither wander you?”
- Shakespeare. |
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Paulx54
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 5:50am |
I only saw one message in this post: Yes, there is ( or has been) an EPIDEMIC in China. The comparison to SARS implies that the epidemic is a human epidemic. Therefore, one would likely conclude that yes, it is h2h2h. The post appears to be very carefully worded in order to avoid prison or death. Thank you Panbingliang!
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 7:02am |
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Spirit, I lived in Seoul, Korea for three years. I taught and acted on Korean television and also attempted to start a business in Korea. The extreme lack of character among businessmen caused me to throw in the towel. This culture encourages and admires deceptive, crafty, shrewd, cunning manipulation. A well passed off lie is an art there. Those who haven't lived in Asia can't imagine just how different other cultures can be. A military soldier told me when I came in country, if you want to understand how a Korean thinks just think the opposite of American thinking. MK |
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TomMI
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Joined: February 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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Posted: April 06 2006 at 7:25am |
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I agree with Mary Kay. Ive spent time in China and the culture...its something entirely different. Its all about "saving face" and deception is the norm. I still believe its all about where the buck stops. |
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A sensible man watches for problems ahead and prepares to meet them. The simpleton never looks and suffers the consequences.
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Snicklefritz wrote: