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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Covid over in 30 days

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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2021 at 4:32pm

Zerohedge, Cobber, really ? 

I give up!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2021 at 5:30pm

Firstly I'm not saying the virus doesn't exist. I'm saying its order of magnitude is somewhere close to the Asian and Hong Kong flus of the 50's and 60's. During those pandemics the world was not shut down. They made a mark in history, and we still talk about them today, but they weren't slate wipers. They mainly killed people with comorbidity and the elderly, which is the same as Covid.


I'm over the alarmist BS. I don't appreciate being called names. So please...


The numbers in the UK are closer to 1000 per day. Which is a lot, but considering that they use the WHO method to evaluate Covid deaths changes the result somewhat. The WHO test method says that if you test positive to Covid within 28 days of dying. You are marked down as a Covid death. This is even if you had Covid, got over it and died of something else.


The test that the WHO recommends was a PCR test with 40 cycles. Since May Last year we knew that 40 cycles would give a huge number of false positives. The WHO argued to keep it high on the grounds of "safety first". They changed their method literally the day Biden was sworn in. So both, case numbers and deaths will drop. 


Read into that what you will. 


I'm willing to bet money that the story over the next few months is, the vaccine is a miracle. The narrative will be Biden's war on Covid fought with the vaccine. Look at the amazing results. I also expect the story to get out that we need to be hero's and put a trillion dollars into vaccinating the third world. This will be at tax payers expense. 


Faucci just came out and said the WHO needs more funding. Literally the day after Biden was sworn in. This is a joke. The WHO is a political front. They made every call incorrectly. Case in point: We calculated 0.3% CFR in February last year. Its very easy to calculate. Surprisingly so. The WHO are only just starting to publish numbers close to this. The WHO are a Propaganda front. You are as dumb as $hit if you thing otherwise


It makes me angry that this deception goes on. 


Zero Hedge have been right on many occasions. Usually they are the first with real journalism. Again with the Ad Hominem attacks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2021 at 9:46pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I don't really have good answers for you yet.

Yes, the vaccines do make you imune to the disease in most cases (but not all - however 90 or 95% is a good score) and protect against severe disease in the other few vaccinated.   So they make good sense.  For those strains not covered (possibly the Brazilian) as they protect against the other strains, and thereby eliminate the post covid damage, they give some protection even there.

We are also hoping that if enough people are vaccinated, then we can achieve the fabled 'herd immunity'.  But the answer to that question is not simple.  The R0 goes up and down as new strains appear and as lockdowns and other methods are tried.  It is a goal, but we do not yet know how many have to have had the disease to achieve it.  We could make a few educated guesses, but then another strain emerges and it is back to the drawing board.  Just dropping the number of transmissions, will save many lives.


Basically, they do prevent disease in most cases and along with that at least reduce transmission (immune people still need to wash their hands).


No vaccine ever protects everyone (except in those cases where the disease goes extinct - like smallpox).  But protecting most people can be enough to improve things beyond all measure.  Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good.

So Techno, on this evening's news we had yet another clip from the BBC saying that scientists weren't sure if the vaccine would stop you catching covid. What it would do is stop so many people having a serious bout of it, but they said more than once that they don't know if it actually stops you from catching it, and they still believe that you will be infectious to other people even if you are vaccinated. They showed an animation saying that they believed that vaccinated people would still catch covid but the disease would stay in the upper airways (and they showed the mouth and throat in red) but wouldn't be deep seated and go into the lungs, and they said that upper respiratory cases are still contagious. 

I can't find evidence to support what you said about the vaccine making you immune to the disease. I wish I could and I'm hoping that you can provide the sources for that info for me as I really hope the vaccine can put an end to this, but from all that I've read, all I can find are claims that that it stops 90 odd % of recipients from developing serious complications. I suspect that because these vaccines are in the experimental stages and haven't carried out full safety trials, that simply enough time hasn't passed to find out the true effect the vaccines have on the disease. I'm still looking for clarification as there seems to be so much disinformation out there. 

My conclusion is that the vaccines available simply prevent the majority of people from getting seriously ill and therefore will save the health system. They will save lives by allowing the health system to function properly again and thereby allow other routine lifesaving medical procedures to go ahead in a timely manner.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 12:40am

It's too early to tell if the vaccines provide sterilizing immunity.


"The vaccine trials looked very closely at whether the vaccines prevented becoming infected with symptomatic COVID and the results were that both mRNA vaccines provided about 95% protection from that and just about 100% protection from severe illness.  That's huge in and of itself.  Beyond that, Moderna did look at a sub-population after the first dose and saw a lot less asymptomatic infections vs. placebo, but the sample size wasn't large enough to be definitive, although it's likely that that is the case.  In addition, as per my post above, in the Israeli vaccinations, they're seeing very high immune responses (up to 20X vs. infected/recovered patients), which makes it very likely that any infections that do result will likely not be serious and would be less likely to be infectious. 

 

But for now, we simply don't have definitive data on sterilizing immunity (where vaccinated people simply can't become infected, which is seen for some vaccines, but not others) or even the degree to which vaccinated, but infected people might still be infectious - we'd need data on viral loads of these people, along with well documented contact-transmission cases, which we simply don't have yet.  But it's known that vaccinated people will be infected far less than non-vaccinated people, so that reduced transmissions and it's a damn good guess to assume that vaccinated people who do get infected will, on average be less infectious than non-vaccinated people.  

 

We also have no indications that any of the new variants won't be protected against by the mRNA vaccines (and some work has been done to show that these variants should be protected against by the vaccines).  Eventually, variants could evolve which partially or completely escape vaccine protection, but the good news there is that when that happens, at least for the mRNA vaccines, producing a modified vaccine effective for that variant should only take 6-8 weeks - it wouldn't be guesswork.  But yes, many are speculating that the virus eventually becomes endemic, but more like the common cold, as per the article below."  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/coronavirus-immunity-future.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 8:05am

KiwiMum, the original figures published by Pfizer and Moderna were my main source, added to a pattern exhibited by vaccines in general.  

That is the best I can offer, until more is known.  Call it educated guesses if you wish.  I did say I had no good answers to that one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 8:43am

Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

The numbers in the UK are closer to 1000 per day. Which is a lot, but considering that they use the WHO method to evaluate Covid deaths changes the result somewhat. The WHO test method says that if you test positive to Covid within 28 days of dying. You are marked down as a Covid death. This is even if you had Covid, got over it and died of something else.

'And now they are finding covid deaths long after the 28 day period.  So the two sets of antagonistic numbers even out somewhat.  The current figure for the UK is 1,200 by the way and we are a small country.  

So what if the victims are usually older?   They are still people.  The huge case numbers also give more chances to mutate.


Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

The test that the WHO recommends was a PCR test with 40 cycles. Since May Last year we knew that 40 cycles would give a huge number of false positives. The WHO argued to keep it high on the grounds of "safety first". They changed their method literally the day Biden was sworn in. So both, case numbers and deaths will drop.
Yep, this will drop the case numbers.  It can't change the death rate though.  Test results show what is happening (or fail to), but they can't actually alter the numbers of sick and dying, only the tally of the sick.


Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

I'm willing to bet money that the story over the next few months is, the vaccine is a miracle. The narrative will be Biden's war on Covid fought with the vaccine. Look at the amazing results. I also expect the story to get out that we need to be hero's and put a trillion dollars into vaccinating the third world. This will be at tax payers expense.
Personally, I never minded paying a bit more to save lives.


Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

Faucci just came out and said the WHO needs more funding. Literally the day after Biden was sworn in. This is a joke. The WHO is a political front. They made every call incorrectly. Case in point: We calculated 0.3% CFR in February last year. Its very easy to calculate. Surprisingly so. The WHO are only just starting to publish numbers close to this. The WHO are a Propaganda front. You are as dumb as $hit if you thing otherwise

As dumb as $hit?  Now who is name calling?   What did I say that was as bad as that?

Faucci is an expert, and can finally say what he thinks.  

Yes, the WHO is political, but we still need them.   Being a member of the WHO gives more opportunites to change it from within.  It does need reform.  But just because they are crap at the job, does not mean the job is unnecessary.  He who pays the piper calls the tune.   With the USA out of the WHO, China called the tune.  


Finally:  Yes, Zerohedge have sometimes got stuff right, especially where financial investment is concerned; I won £600 on the lottery once, I don't have a hot line to correct numbers though.  

They however, all the time, are a far-right blog, not a right-leaning one or even a right-wing one.  They are a source of far-right conspiracy theories.  Their "Tyler Durden"  is in fact, Daniel Ivandjiiski**, who has been done for insider trading by the way.  To date Google ads, paypal, twitter have all banned the site for reasons of violation of policy standards. (With Google it was inciting hatred and violence.)  Facebook banned them too, but that was for rather less fair reasons of their own.  In that case (and that case only) Zerohedge was in the right.  






**Tyler Durden then was a son of a soviet (When Bulgaria was still within the Soviet union) who was a member of the "international Organisation of Journalists" which is a Russian propaganda organisation.  This does not mean he is a Putin Puppet, or that he follows in his dad's footsteps, but he is happy to stir trouble and there is no smoke without fire as they say.  Again, personally, I think he is only interested in moneymaking for himself, the harms done are not partisan, merely selfish.

But, in March 2020, American journalist Seth Hettena wrote an opinion-piece in The New Republic titled "Is Zero Hedge a Russian Trojan Horse?", and provided details on the links between Krassimir Ivandjiiski (the site publisher's Bulgarian father), and Soviet-era activities in propaganda, revealed during litigation initiated by the father against Hettena in the Bulgarian courts. Hettena commented that Zero Hedge has become "a forum for the hateful, conspiracy-driven voices of the angry white men of the alt-right. Racists, anti-Semites, extreme right-wingers, and conspiracy nuts were an underserved audience, and, as it turns out, a profitable one." - his words not mine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 9:45am

And if this disease is killing < 1% of its victims or < Spanish Influenza or < the Tokyo Trots, but is still causing months-long and perhaps life-long illness in 20-25% people that incapacitates and prevents them from working, it doesn't matter so much that it's not "The Slate Wiper".  We don't just prep for " The Slate Wiper".  IMO, people who don't take this seriously enough are begging for this virus to come and prove them wrong.  And some of them will get their wish.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 10:33am

We’re so used to discussing “slate wipers” that we forgot to prepare for a long, slow burn. It doesn’t need to kill huge numbers - it just needs to overwhelm our healthcare systems. That’s exactly where we are right now. 

"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 11:13am

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

We’re so used to discussing “slate wipers” that we forgot to prepare for a long, slow burn. It doesn’t need to kill huge numbers - it just needs to overwhelm our healthcare systems. That’s exactly where we are right now. 

Yes. I was reading in the British press about people with cancer who's treatment has been postponed, life saving operations delayed and their on going care effectively suspended. The article was saying that for many those delays may prove to be a death sentence. In an ideal world I guess we'd have 2 hospital systems: one for every day medical care and one for pandemics. 

How are you getting on at your hospital Jacksdad? It must be exhausting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 5:58pm

I sympathise JD, our healthcare system is on its last elbows too (it fell to its knees weeks ago) and is quaking and gasping under the strain.  People have been dying for months due to lack of healthcare, which was once freely available and is now suspended or rationed.

Bernard has now lost two people to heart disease which had suspended treatments due to covid.  "The heart disease could kill you, but the covid in the hospital definitely will so it is marginally safer to wait.  Oops!"  and friends all seem to be losing people in droves.  One friend has lost 3 family members so far and counting.  A couple of friends who are cancer patients are also having their life-extending chemo delayed, because of the increased risks.  (One is terminal - probably this month, the other having surgery anyway - NO SURRENDER.)

Now is a terrible time to get sick with anything at all.  My dog has canker (ears) and needs a vet, I need the dentist and we all skipped our flu jabs (too risky.)  Every time I phone our local Doctor's surgery, it is closed.  Earmites and a filling which needs replacing are not exactly life-threatening.  The earmites can be treated with stuff bought on ebay.  But once upon a time this was all so easy.


Our NHS has been our pride and joy for the whole of my life;  free, complete, available, but not now.  


Stay safe, Pal, don't let the first vaccine dose make you complacent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 6:46pm

Interesting covid cases are DECREASING now throughout the US. But since Christmas was supposed to be a super spreading event with all the travel looks like everyone was wrong yet again. But it sure scared everyone out of Thanksgiving and Christmas didn't it . BAH BAH BAH.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with President BIDUM being sworn in and the time frame for the change in testing criteria. Just a coincidence right LOL 

 In what some have suggested is politicized timing, the World Health Organization on Wednesday changed the protocol for COVID-19 tests, which will result in large reductions in the numbers of positive cases. The body took this action just one hour after Joe Biden was sworn in as president of the United States.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/one-hour-after-biden-inaugurated-who-changes-covid-testing-criteria

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-19/covid-cases-fall-in-all-regions-even-as-u-s-faces-400-000-dead

https://www.daily-times.com/story/news/2021/01/18/covid-19-cases-reported-new-mexico-continue-decline/115327524/

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2021/01/18/gda-covid-19-state-2021-01-18-ut-pstg/43330893/

https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2021/01/19/indiana-covid-19-cases-update-testing/115327590/

https://www.registerguard.com/story/news/2021/01/18/gda-covid-19-state-2021-01-18-or-nreg/115327416/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 7:10pm

That could be a result of the WHO suggested change in testing strategies that Cobber pointed out.  But whatever the case figures are, the deaths are still rising and that is a better indication; it can't be fudged or politicisized so easily.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2021 at 10:47pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

But whatever the case figures are, the deaths are still rising and that is a better indication; it can't be fudged or politicisized so easily.


That is why I follow the death figures more than the case figures.  In an ideal world with widespread testing and the political will to report the actual figures then I would be following the case figures, but with so much under reporting (and changing definitions) then I feel that the death figures give a more accurate picture.  

Even with the death figures there can be much fudging of numbers (eg the UK's 'only report if within 28 days of covid', or Russia's 'only report if there are no other conditions', or China's 'don't report at all'), so 'excess deaths' is probably the best over all indicator of the total effect, as this includes both covid deaths and other deaths because 'covid patients are filling the hospital and regular treatment has been curtailed'.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2021 at 1:09pm

Our county's cases were going down the past week, but are back up again.  And PA's cases as a whole have been up since Halloween and remain high.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2021 at 4:23pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2021 at 6:35am

This situation where doctors were asked to not use a clinical diagnosis when determining if someone died of Covid is laughable. 

This was a global instruction. Every country, everywhere. The rule was if someone had covid within 28 days they were listed as a Covid death. They could have died of a car crash. (it happened)

Combine this with a super sensitive Covid test. Of course the numbers soared

https://twitter.com/donkamion78/status/1353100645771993088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2021 at 7:35am

There are also people who die without a covid test ever being performed.  The increase in death toll (daily, weekly, or monthly) is all that can demonstrate an effect,  unless you can think of another cause for the current massive changes.  No one is publishing that a present (that I have found).  Only the covid figures are regularily circulated and the last time I checked, the INCREASE in death figures was LARGER than the official Covid death toll.

Odd though it might sound, even being run over CAN be a covid effect (the short-of-breath take longer to cross the road and the virus leaves neurological damage in quite a few cases) either by the victim or the driver being affected.  Admittedly this is unlikely, but not impossible.  The "happy hypoxic" are a distinct sub-group of sufferers, with LOTS of members.  Hypoxia both slows the sufferer down and can produce severe mental disruption.  The HHs are less likely to apply for a test as well.  There could be loads of dead people yet to be discovered at home.  Would you check on your elderly neighbours if your area was under lockdown?   I would consider it to be to big a risk, both for me and for them, unless I had a their telephone number.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2021 at 11:03am

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/i-m-looking-truth-states-face-criticism-covid-19-data-n1202086

I'm looking for the truth': States face criticism for COVID-19 data cover-ups

The public must be given complete and accurate information about the coronavirus pandemic, experts said.

COVID-19 Testing Begins in Historic Black Neighborhoods in Altamonte Springs, US

Health workers test people in cars for COVID-19 at a mobile testing site at the Apostolic Church of Christ in Altamonte Springs, Florida, on April 21, 2020.Paul Hennessy / Barcroft Media via Getty Images file

May 25, 2020, 6:00 AM EDT

By Allan Smith

As states ramp up their reopenings, some are coming under criticism for making public misleading statistics or concealing information related to the coronavirus outbreak.


While the U.S. has reported more cases and deaths than any other country, the method for counting COVID-19 deaths varies by state. In testimony before the Senate earlier this month, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, said the actual number of people who've died as a result of the pandemic is "almost certainly" higher than what's been counted.


Such data has been the basis for how quickly states are beginning to open up and return to a sense of normalcy. But government officials in a number of states are facing questions about how open and honest they're being about how the virus is impacting their state.


"Accurate, complete and timely information is the best way to understand, respond to and limit the impact of the virus on both health and the economy," Dr. Tom Frieden, who ran the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention under former President Barack Obama, told NBC News.


"This helps to set realistic expectations on how the pandemic will affect people's lives and to inform required changes in behavior to prevent the spread of the virus," he added.



Florida scientist says she was ousted after refusing to manipulate state’s COVID-19 data

MAY 20, 202005:35

Georgia officials have apologized and corrected what was described as a "processing error" that wrongly showed a downward trend in the number of new daily infections in the state, making it appear as if new infections had dropped every day for two weeks. The error was at least the third in three weeks, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.


Georgia was among the first states to launch its reopening. Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, a Republican, said the state on Tuesday recorded its lowest number of hospitalized patients since it began tracking such data in early April.


In the neighboring state of Florida, which has also moved expeditiously in reopening swathes of its economy, several data-related controversies also have brewed.


According to internal emails obtained by the Tampa Bay Times, state officials directed a top Florida Department of Health data manager earlier this month to remove data from public view that showed Florida residents had reported coronavirus-associated symptoms before cases were officially announced. The emails showed that the data manager, Rebekah Jones, had complied with the order but said it was the "wrong call."


Jones was taken off her role maintaining the state's coronavirus dashboard one day after that directive. She told a local CBS affiliate that she refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen" Florida. Last week, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, said Jones was under "active criminal charges" for cyber stalking and cyber sexual harassment.


Top Coronavirus Stories

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Meanwhile, Florida officials last month stopped releasing the list of coronavirus deaths being compiled by the state's medical examiners, which had at times shown a higher death toll than the total being published by the state. State officials said that list needed to be reviewed as a result of the discrepancy.


A spokesman for the state Health Department said the medical examiners had a different method for reporting deaths and that it was untrue "that deaths have been hidden."


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"The government has one mission; academics and scholars have a very different mission," Dr. Dean Hart, an expert on viral transmission and former Columbia University professor who has run for the New York State Assembly as a Democrat, told NBC News.


"As a scientist, I'm looking for the truth, the heck with who it hurts politically," he added.


Amid reopening in Arizona, the state Department of Health Services cut off a team of Arizona State and University of Arizona experts who provided pandemic modeling specific to the state, saying it was no longer needed as the state preferred to use a federal model. After a backlash, the Health Department reinstated the team, though it's unclear whether state officials are using the local universities' work in their decision-making.


Since that dust up, Arizona State released new data showing infections and hospitalizations in the state could soar this summer.



CDC conflates diagnostic, antibody test data creating 'inaccurate' portrayal of virus

MAY 21, 202002:33

The CDC and at least 11 other states have been combining the results of viral tests showing active infections with the results of antibody tests, which show whether someone had been infected in the past.While boosting a state's total testing number, health experts have said that practice does not give a proper picture of how the virus is spreading, the Associated Press reported.


The CDC announced it planned to separate the data and some of those states have stopped doing so or committed to change course, CNN reported.


In New York City, the hardest-hit locale in the nation, local officials last week released COVID-19 data broken down by zip code after pressure to go beyond the county-by-county totals that had previously been shown. Such information made it easier to understand which communities were being most affected by the virus.


The top issue nationally related to the publication of specific coronavirus data involving nursing home cases and deaths, where state and local officials have faced intense scrutiny over the collection and release of such information. The virus has hit nursing homes exceptionally hard — a result of both their residents' vulnerability and policies states and localities have put into place.


In one such example, Arizona officials argued this month they should not reveal the names of facilities with outbreaks because it could give those nursing homes a stigma and could lead to discrimination against them. The argument was made in response to a lawsuit from Arizona news outlets demanding the state provide information on COVID-19 cases in nursing homes and other data.


In Pennsylvania, state officials released such data last week after weeks of delay and in the face of significant pressure.


The federal government, on the other hand, plans to publish such information by the end of May.


Hart said more information on nursing homes could paint a clearer picture of what happened specifically in New York with the spread of COVID-19. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, has come under fire for his administration's March order that nursing homes must accept coronavirus patients. That order was reversed earlier this month.


The group Frieden now leads as president and CEO, Resolve to Save Lives, released a list of suggested criteria to adjust social distancing measures based on key indicators that he believes should be available in every city, state and country. Those indicators include case-count trends and health system and testing capacity to create an alert index for a specific area's level of risk.


He said much would be improved if the CDC would provide and explain the meaning of such data, adding though "much more information is available, it has not been standardized, validated and presented in clear and compelling ways." 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2021 at 1:38pm

Originally posted by cobber cobber wrote:

This situation where doctors were asked to not use a clinical diagnosis when determining if someone died of Covid is laughable. 

This was a global instruction. Every country, everywhere. The rule was if someone had covid within 28 days they were listed as a Covid death. They could have died of a car crash. (it happened)

Combine this with a super sensitive Covid test. Of course the numbers soared

https://twitter.com/donkamion78/status/1353100645771993088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


My mother in law in UK  had Covid died a week after hospital admission, 

Death recorded as pneumonia......

How do you account for that in your statistics  ?

Over in 30 days,.....you said that months ago doesn't seem to be getting any better......!!!!!

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2021 at 2:03pm

Sympathies again, Carbon.  

Believers don't need proof and sceptics won't accept proof.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2021 at 4:52am

Daily Mail Article

Why ARE COVID cases plummeting? New infections have fallen 45% in the US and 30% globally in the past 3 weeks but experts say vaccine is NOT the main driver because only 8% of Americans and 13% people worldwide have received their first dose


Its like someone waved a little magic wand. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9219379/Why-coronavirus-cases-falling-fast-New-infections-drop-44-three-weeks.html#comments

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2021 at 1:59pm

Daily Mail......lmao

Daily Fail more like...




Maybe the social distancing ,and mask wearing really work?!!!!!!?

I'm guessing it is the science not the looney toons..... conspiracy theories.......

Kelly, Evans loonies....

That seem to keep getting shot out of the water......

Take care all 😷😉


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2021 at 7:47pm

I thought you said the magic wand would be waved 30 days from the original post of this topic?!?!  You need some new material!

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2021 at 8:30pm

Anyone who says this virus is going to over in 30 days is not only wrong, but has done a great disservice to the group.  We are going to be in this for at least 6 more months.  We aren't stupid.  All you have to do is look at the covid trackers sites.  450,000 Americans have died from covid 19..  I almost became one of them.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 1:42am

I have been here for at least ten years. Over that time I've learnt a lot. Before Covid we would asses new viral threats. We used fact and evidence to understand and eventually develop conclusions.


Since Covid this has all gone out the window. Its political spin and alarmist news stories which dominate.  I'm trying to wrestle back the site and bring back some reality.


I still call this a Powderpuff. It's somewhere close to the magnitude of the Hong Kong Flu. Its a big event, but not worthy of shutting everything down. 


Bottom line. There has been no statistically significant increase in death rate from any country. In many countries the death rate has actually dropped. This should be all the evidence you need. The virus has been hugely exaggerated. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 8:24am

"Wrestle back the site" as a response to someone who has had the disease that you have not?!  Unbelievable!  The only thing that keeps me from saying what I really feel is that if I do, someone whom I respect will give me an unpleasant warning.  So therefore I will just say you are living in a fantasy, and you are asking for this virus or one of its mutant variations to come and get you.  And you don't want that.

And your 30 days has elapsed 4 1/2 times over now, and counting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 9:55am

cobber, I get why you continually call Covid a "powderpuff" and that you compare it to HK flu.  Worldwide HK flu killed anywhere between 1,000,000 to 4,000,000 people where Covid has thus far killed "only" over 2,000,000.  

But there's two things you're forgetting here:

1. Covid is no over yet. HK flu killed approximately 100,000 Americans where Covid has thus far killed over 467,000. Projections are that fatalities will be 500,000 by the middle of February. I wouldn't call that a "powder puff".

2.  You mention you joined the forum 10 years ago.  In that 10 years many of us have aged into the high risk category.  So for those members, there is the sense of catastrophe for which you complain.

As far as the politicization of Covid, I'm not sure what you missed that I caught on to, but this forum simply mirrored much of what America, and the rest of the world has seen:   A tragic mishandling of resources, planning and information that bordered on disregard for human life.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 11:10am

Thing with cobber is he's sitting pretty in safe Adelaide Australia which has not been touched the thankfully.....,

Be a very different story of he was living in Birmingham UK,with my Mom who's been lockdown for months ,

And working in the healthcare industry....

Instead he tries to defend the the inane idea this is nothing......

He tried to say the authorities are closing countries for no reason.....

SERIOUSLY.........!!!???

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 6:17pm

Oh!  So you're saying cobber has no skin in this game.  Makes sense.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 7:08pm

Let's just say that those who are impacted by covid have a different perspective from Cobber,  It's like someome without a disability say that disability is no problem because he or she has not experienced the said situation.  There is a saying, if you want understand a person, walk a mile in his shoes.  I don't think Cobber has experienced the terror of gasping for air, of being intubated or drowning in your own liquids.  Has he had his last riites given to him and the sound of alarms going off in your room..,,,  Don't doubt my pain, my suffering or my severe neurological issues..   Ignorance is bliss, they say...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 9:35pm

ME163, I hope you will see your health returning soon. Sometimes it is good to put yourself in someone else his/her position-sometimes taking a lot of distance can help getting a perspective as well...

I would LOVE "Covid being over in 30 days"!!!! I would love to believe we could get out of this pandemic by summer...

When I think of this pandemic it is horror...a nightmare lasting much to long. Denial can be a way to survive...[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_Beautiful[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Is_BeautifulBenigni plays Guido Orefice, a Jewish Italian bookshop owner, who employs his fertile imagination to shield his son from the horrors of internment in a Nazi concentration camp.

DJ-We may be moving towards "another world" and denial of that is part of a process...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2021 at 9:56pm

Dutch,  

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, everyone has to see a different point of view.  I see the world from reality.  What is and what isn't. Not what a person wants the world to be.  O f course, we want covid gone in 30 days.... Sorry to say that it's not going to happen... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 8:54am

Yes, as Witchy says (thanks, Witchy, for your very reasoned and reasonable response.  You said what I would've if I wasn't sick and tired of arguing this topic with wishful thinkers and head-in-the-sanders in my private life whose knowledge of medicine and this virus would fit on the head of a pin, with room left over for a legion of angels to dance.  But I digress).  I myself have aged since I joined in 2013, from where I was used to getting the flu once a year and being sick for a week or so like most people, to someone who almost wound up in the hospital from her last bout with the flu 4 years ago, and a very minor allergy attack had me down with bronchitis for more than 2 weeks 2 years ago.  This virus, if it didn't kill me, would most likely disable me forever.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 9:49am

The truth of covid is not hiding in the millions it has killed, but in the many times as many millions it would have killed without the epidemiological methods currently employed.  It currently kills around 3 in every thousand.  Extrapolate that figure to the world's population and up to 23 million could die.  

Additionally that could rise further, if health systems become overwhelmed and could rise yet again, if a nastier strain emerges.*  

The reason this is as low as it it, is because a few epidemiologists have managed to convince their governments of the need for extreme measures.







*The more cases there are, the more mutations can happen.  3 nastier so far, and it has not finished yet.

Believers don't need proof and sceptics won't accept proof.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:16pm

Those who deny the plague around us do us a ultimate disservice.  We, who have been scared by this menace have no choice but to fight the ignorance.  We are witnesses against the virus and our indictment against the virus is DAMMING. for 8 months I fought this thing and it's long term rampage.  Don't care who says denial is good... it is not against a monster like this one. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:31pm

I was watching a news program  (al jazerra)

The dreaded word recombination  pop it's  head up.....

Unless all travel  is stopped for 12 weeks we are going to mutations on the variants.......

Great to have you back ME bet your grey cells getting a good work out reading all the good ,bad,controversial, discourse we get into on here.......enjoy......good therapy.......

Take care all

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:40pm

Thanks, Carbon... 

How are the quokka's ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 2:54pm

Quokka's are great little creatures, 

just if your camping make sure your food is well locked up.......lol


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 4:08pm

ME163, you're a soldier in this battle -- keep up the good fight, you have my respect and prayers.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 4:57pm

Queen, 

I am outraged by the numskulls who keep peddling stupidity. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2021 at 5:12pm

I hear you, and I'm glad to see that in spite of the fact that you're still suffering, you are fighting against the misinformation and misapprehensions.  I'm proud to fight that battle also, even though I don't have the first-hand experience you do.  And I hope I never do.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2021 at 6:37am

Again to clarify what I said. I said the virus would be over after the US election. However because the potential legal challenge to the result and Trump not conceding there was a prolonged decision. 


On the 13 January the WHO changed the Covid assessment standard. This was just after Trumps challenge was squashed. Perfect timing... 


The case numbers have rapidly declined since this day (13th Jan). See New York Times.

https://www.nytimes3xbfgragh.onion/interactive/2020/us/new-york-coronavirus-cases.html


It hasn't dropped due to vaccinations. This has already been discussed. Not enough of them to have an effect yet



My original post:

COVID is a Powderpuff. 

The narrative will be dead after the US election. About two weeks later its will be flushed down the memory hole.


I made this prediction in July. 


You have been lied to and its blatantly obvious. Stop crying. Its WMD's all over again. 



Covid is a POWDERPUFF!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2021 at 7:12am

It has killed people who matter to me personally.  

It has damaged Me163 in a massive way. 

If it were not for the lockdowns (damaging and killing in themselves) it would have killed many more in its exponential spread.


What do you class as a powderpuff; gunpowder on steel wool?

Believers don't need proof and sceptics won't accept proof.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2021 at 7:47am

This may be a bit much for you all. I get it. Some of you see me saying its a powderpuff like I'm saying it wasn't deadly or dangerous.. 


Yes it is dangerous. Yes it is scary. I'm not saying we shouldn't take measures. Of course we should be careful.


The issue I have is that the risks were greatly exaggerated. It was done deliberately. The virus was used as a political tool. The world was shut down. It destroyed many markets and killed many businesses. Much of it unnecessary


The global economy stopped!


I can hear you scoffing though the internet right now. I'm sure your are spitting up you Wheaties at this. The economy isn't important when lives are at stake!  Bwahhhaa..cry..cry bah


Get over yourselves. The world economy is super important. There are countries who were hanging on by a thread. Many African nations were already struggling to feed their populations. 


I'm hearing over 200 million people will die from the famine caused by the global shut down. 


You wont hear it on the news.


That's not a powderpuff. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2021 at 7:58am
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