Dead Crows & Potential Avian Flu

a warm welcome to the forum. You did all the right things-hang in there-hopefully someone will still contact you. I also have a number that was posted a while ago. it's 1-866-536-7593. It was mentioned that ALL calls would be responded too.
Please get back to us !
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Welcome Kathy !

Way to go...I know that crows can be the carriers of West Nile...and since they are scavanger bird..you would think that they too woul dbe on a list of possibilites for H5N1..I also would add to that seagulls and there has been some mention of fish...'

Welcome aboard kathylynndean thank you for the imput and I look forward to reading further posts...

 Good Job Kathy!(and Welcome!)

Well, I am as far east from you as it gets. (Massachusetts) I'm hoping my town is preparing for this... Maybe right now would be the time for me to find out what they would do rather than wait for it to happen later and find out they will react the same as "Sylvia".  

It makes me so angry when I hear thinhs like this. Maybe you should find out where "Sylvia" lives, and drop them on HER door step. Let her figure out what to do with them.....(Ok, keep one of them to make sure it does get tested and not just discarded as this is what I suspect will happen if "Sylvia" has someone pick them up....)

Good Luck with your efforts to do the right thing....Keep making phone calls, e-mails, letters etc....You know what they say about the sqeaky wheel!

PLEASE keep us posted!

Kathy:

I found a dead sparrow in the yard on Sat. that was not there one minute and there the next.  No window to hit, no animal killed it, it had no visible trauma and was still warm and pliable, etc.  We triple bagged it and today, I first CALLED my local health department who stated they have no AI plan and no way to test.

In the meantime, another dead bird was found right outside my workplace door (small community). Unable to tell if it was traumatized, etc.  Different type bird.  Looks like a crow.

Emailed friend who is upper management at DHEC who emailed me to say they have no way to test at this time.  Not even testing for West Nile at this time.

Called the number for USDA in SC and she referred me to Clemson University.  Spoke with two people there who stated they had no idea what to tell me and referred me to Dr. Laurie Helms who was out of the office, today. Left a message.  Dead bird still sitting in my car...

We are planning, prepping, watching news and this forum daily.  I am an Infection Control Professional who just finished writing a draft Pandemic Influenza plan for an entire hospital and outlying health care offices, am fit--testing a hospital full of employees for N95 masks and yet, my local health department and others have no clue what to do with a dead bird????????????????????????????????????????????? 

 No #$% wonder there is no shortage of tuna and powdered milk, yet!!!!!!!!!!  Yep,  it's true...  If we wait on our governments, we're all gonna die!

 

OMG Kirby!   The EXACT same thing happened to you as did to me.   I have already contacted the State; absolutely nothing back yet.

Like Momoftwins said, I think everyone should put their local Health Department through the mill to test them.

Sylvia's e-mail is in my first posting...

Dead crows still sitting in garage...

 Just out of curiosity when you all call these health departments you do get names.... right? My sis in MD called about a dead bird and got a 'we're not testing right now" thing and no name. She will get a name next time to go back to in the future.... plus the press always likes a contact person.

I have names, dead birds and I better not get sick!

Get ready for this and it's bad.

Any Oregonian's, please take note:

The phone number previously listed by Worrywort, 866 536-7593 is picked up by a human immediately, and is for the USDA Vet Division.   They can give you the phone number for your state's USDA Vet Division only.

They gave me the Oregon USDA Vet Division number of 503 399-5871 where I talked to Ruth.   Ruth explained to me that they had nothing to do with Avian Flu, and I was talking to the wrong Division.

Ruth gave me the number of the Oregon State Health Division who I had previously e-mailed.   Their phone number is 503 731-4024, and I talked to Tammy.   Tammy explianed to me that their office per se did not handle such things, but she could transfer my call to a doctor that might know something.

Dr. William E. Keene came on the line, and he was not aware that crows carried H5N1, and he said they only carried West Nile Virus, but it was too early for West Nile Virus.   I kindly explained to Dr. Keene that crows do carry H5N1, and he stood corrected and promised to study up a bit.   I swear to God this is the honest truth.

Dr. Keene went on to explain to me that he did not know the "CRITERIA" (important word) for testing, but he would try to find out.   Dr. Keene also explained to me that he seriously doubted that the State of Oregon had any funds to do testing of crows at this time.

For any Oregonian's that find dead crows, or other birds dropping from the sky, poison or no poison (what a crock!) Dr. Keene's e-mail is william.e.keene@state.or.us.

Dr. Keene stated he would try to find "someone who knew something" and he took my phone number.   He said he would try to get back to me today, or have someone contact me.

This is sickening and absolutely inexcusable...

I will keep you posted...

kathylynndean wrote...

"I have already contacted the State;
absolutely nothing back yet."


---------------

The same thing has happened to me. You can't change what will happen,
only your response. Take a deep breath, you have finite resources, but
you have a lot of additional resources here. We are all in the same boat.

This is getting worse by the minute.

Dr. Keene phoned me back.   A memo came out today, 03-20-06, from a Dr. Bredoski (sp?) of his office, stating that all birds of the genus corvus (includes crows) are to be tested, starting today........................for West Nile Virus only.

I have to document this all or I will forget.   I offered to pay for the flu testing, and he said that would be impossible because State/Public testing labs can not take money.   Only private labs would do it.   So I told him to please give me the name of a private lab, and he said he very much doubted there were any in Oregon that would test birds.

He went on to say that the bird could not be over 48 hours old, so mine were near the deadline anyway.   Oregon has instructions to NOT TEST FOR AVIAN FLU DO TO LACK OF FUNDING.

They are under instructions to wait for numerous "poultry deaths" to occur, and then they will test for Avian Flu.   Only wild birds to the north of Oregon would be tested, and that would "probably mean Alaska" according to Keene.

I told Keene that I wanted my crows picked up immediately for West Nile Virus testing, and he said that would be impossible, because Josephine County would not get the memo for a week or so.   I held my anger, and told him this was the computer age; it does not take a week to send a memo.   He explained to me that it "was a very thick package of information that had to be mailed to each county in Oregon."

Keene went on to say that I was dealing with the wrong Division, and I should have phoned 541 826-8774, which is the ODFW, Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.   They are the ones that "collect birds" and decide if they should be tested for West Nile Virus.

Keene must have repeated the following phrases a dozen times:

Lack resources

Limited funding

No tax dollars

Not enough money

Keene went on to say that he had discussed my case with another doctor, and she said it was probably due to POISONING!

I explained to the good doctor that I have lived here for years, and not once have I ever found a dead bird.   Never.   All my windows are under the porch, so birds can not even fly into them.   Then in two days I find three dead crows.   He was not impressed, and said it could be insecticides then.   I explained to him that almost all insects were dormant at the moment, and this is not the time for spraying.   (I still hold my C-27 Landscape Contractor's License from CA)

I am just sick.....

Have to phone ODFW.....

He told me to stick my crows in the freezer, and I almost told him where to stick my crows......

 

Even worse news

Oregonians please take note:

I just got off the phone with Rosemary Stussy of ODFW, the organization that Dr. Keene said was in charge.

I had to literally force my way through to her, because the secretary kept trying to get rid of me and saying she had not heard of Dr. Keene.

Rosemary explained they are not in charge of anything except fish and wildlife and hunting, and certainly not bird flu testing.   She did not know that crows even carried Avian Flu, and they would certainly never come out and pick up a bird.

Rosemary gave me the phone numbers of the people I should have contacted, and they are as follows:

Dr. Jerry Herded of Oregon State University of Vet Medicine at 541 737-3261

or

Dr. Emilio Debess who is a State Public Health Vet at 971 673-1111

Rosemary was very up-front with me and said she had no idea what to do, but was handling all the incoming "dead bird" calls.   They are under instructions of some sort to not discuss/handle any potential Avian Flu cases and only treat it as West Nile Virus.   I told her this made no sense; she told me that the birds had probably been POISONED!

I am honestly beginning to think some sort of Government (Federal) plot of some sort is going on here.   We have Billions of Dollars going to hurricane victims, and no tax money for flu testing?   What the %^&* is going on here?

Rosemary told me to feel through the bag to see if their breast bone meat had withered away to be sure they were poisoned.   I told her they were plump, fat, healthy looking birds, and she said that sounded like it could be Avian Flu!

Oh, give me strength.....

 

WOW!!!!!

As a Northwesterner this seems like a "gap" big enough to drive a convoy of trucks through, much less a microscopic virus.  Now, random dead birds likely aren't avian flu, but prudence directs checking.  You've got me motivated to ask around with the Emergency Management Departments I work with.  I am going to make some phone calls to comparable organizations here in Washington plus the EM departments first thing in the morning.  

For all the money being spent on big programs, if government agencies aren't getting the instructions and funding for basic monitoring, we are obviously missing the boat.  But then, disease surveillance is WAY less sexy than a big vaccine manufacturing plant.

Just by asking the question we all prompt others who are less informed on the topic to start asking their own questions and to get informed.

We can start our on sort of epidemic!

http://www.usda.gov/documents/wildbirdstrategicplanpdf_seg11 .pdf

Looks like there was a big meeting today with US Department of Ag.  Buried in their report is a list of labs certified to test for H5N1 as part of a "WIld Bird Plan: An Early Detection System for Highly Pathogenic H5N1 in Wild Migratory Birds U.S. Interagency Strategic Plan.

Good news is there is an Oregon lab, with phone number and POC listed.

I'm going to doa test call to the Washington Lab tomorrow.

Thanks Bird Free, but I phoned that number a looooong time ago, like this morning, I think.   Please read my posting number 4 or 5 or 6 I think for what happens at that phone number.

BlueSky, thank you a million times.  I have not yet been to the site, but will do so.   I will phone the two vets listed in my last posting tomorrow morning and see what they have to say.   The way it has gone so far, they will refer me to someone else!

I know that this is an overwhelming job for a person to do, but we should try to get a "reading" from each state.   I have done Oregon!

Does this site have enough members to do such a thing?   If there isn't a member from a certain state, someone who is a member is bound to know someone in that state that could do the job.   Or, with cell phone minutes, a member could phone an adjoining state.

What the hell, say you have a few dead birds, crows, ravens, sparrows, etc.   I'm pretty sure no one is going to rush over and pick them up!   I don't think poultry should be used, because that would really cause a panic.   "They" don't seem to care about wild birds; Oregon is waiting for massive poultry deaths to do anything, and I heard it from the horses mouth today.

I do not understand fully the flu transmission problems between animal and human.   What I have read is rather confusing.   If the crows have Avian Flu or West Nile Virus, did I subject myself to anything by picking them up?   What about my geese and domestic ducks?   I triple wrapped the crows and stuck them in my freezer, but I hated even doing that.   I am concerned about my health now.

I swear, if a wild turkey keels over within my site, I'm going ballistic...

Hey Kathy you're the boss keep on banging at their doors.
I think I remember in the Hitchcock Birds film no-one was interested until it was too late!!!

Surprised at the lack of government response ? Arrrr you kidding me ? You've heard of "red tape" when trying to get something done , now the red tape is in getting a real answer ! Ever hear.... It's not my job ! It's not my department ! I don't have the authority ! I work for the government ! Good benefits and I  can almost never get fired ! We do the least we can and my union makes sure we are never overworked !  One department takes the calls to give you another number that's no good either , and then you finally get someone to listen and promise to consider the possibility of thinking about sending a memo to a possible department that might be able to handle a question about...What did you say ,.a crow ? Then.., (if not too near a mandatory "breaktime")  an official memo may  be sent !  OOPS...wrong department . Maybe the "crow lady will call again and we can try the transportation dept. I heard  (on the news) wild  birds travel alot ! Now I remember something about Avian birds ! Is that a misspelling ? Should it not be Asian birds ? Maybe Avian means colorful and therefore that crow lady has nothing to worry about...crows are black...right ? WOW another wierd day working for uncle sam.. I'm definitely going to tell my cats about this when I get home...cats like bird stories for sure !!

I think that this opens up an entire new issue. We know that birds will be dying. Most of them aren't even suitable for testing. We know that they will eventually be carrying either the low or high path h5n1. They all can't be tested so shouldn't we just assume that die offs like this are suspect, wrap up the birds in double plastic and throw them in the dump? That is just nasty! Try a forum or blog on your local newspaper, radio or t.v. station. But educate people knowing that education may have a price. (I am so afraid that within the next year to 18 months dead birds will be the least of our problems.)

Prior to the last 3 months when was the last time you heard of naturally occuring die offs, chikungunya, massive outbreaks of Dengue fever or meningitis? As a public we aren't going to be told much ahead of time so we shouldn't be surprised that people don't know about this. We know the government cannot help us that much. We know that the majority of people have their head in the sand. It seems no matter how much educating we try to do there are just some people that will not understand this until the major crisis occurs.

The government is more afraid of panic and civil unrest like what occured in Louisiana. We all should fear a time when people who think they have nothing to lose are let lose to prey upon weaker members of the society. Our societal climate is not like that of 1918.

I know how frustrated you are kathylynn and i applaud you for your efforts, and we must keep trying but don't be surprised or alarmed. I have been talking about avian flu for close to 3 years now, I have known about it since 1997 because I am a scientific sort of person who tends to live in the future. It seems that I have been trying to educate people for so long. I have tried to have members of my local government stockpile i.e. food, water, prepare for mass vaccination etc. all to no avail.  I have spoken to church members and local civic members, much the same response. I developed a plan for my husbands business and no one picked it up. I am the bird flu lady. coo coo cachoo

(I am also a born again Christian and I liken this to trying to tell people about Jesus, some just cannot or refuse to open their minds in order to understand the truth and it is a bit frustrating.)

Sorry BFWATCHER to post with your name. FIRST time on and thought I was sending you the message  ... Derrrr... No I don't work for uncle sam. Just trying to send a little humor your way. Humor always has a little truth to it. I could have gone on and on some more until my head really started to spin but point was made. Don't rely on the government. My gosh, most people couldn't wait to grow up and be on their own. Well...grow up america and take care of yourselves . Be leaders out there ! Take charge of your lives. Do what you can. The children of the world are starving for examples of how to be independent individuals.  Where lies  the good in relying on someone else to "take care of us " ? Yes help your neighbor in time of need but for goodness sake don't be foolish enough to think the government should bail us out !   Why tell the children not to worry...the government will save us  ? Why don't you just tell them they aren't good enough , or smart enough , or don't have what it takes to make a difference.. I know..steal there dreams ! Steal there dreams of making a difference in the world ! .. Rely on the government Johnny, Jane, they'll take care of us .  Now go watch some television....                                             Does anyone really think we have a chance against Mother nature ?  Get real !  Get ready ! Get going ! Get prepared !......and  oh  ya... get rid of the television....well at least two nights a week if you can ! Heh ..it's only quality time with the couch you're going to throw in a couple of years ! Did I say Quality!  Sorry..

kathy-use this forum the best you can to get all the info about avian flu you can and start sending e-mails to your friends and relatives-and never mind if they don't respond , at least you warned them. there is so much misinformation on how the virus is spread and most people I talk to to don't have a clue how dangerous it really is. we have goats and I am on several livestock internet lists. ONe of the member just posted the other day, to please stop people from panicking and could someone please educate folks to the fact that the virus is only dangerous in countries that are filthy and people have birds in their house. that's scary. I responded to that but no one wrote back on that topic.-btw-I'm a taurus also and I'm known for my 'stubbornness, but I see it as "persistence, and that quality is very much needed at a time like this.

I wrote to every member that sat on the Committee of the new Federal document that mandates that each state test for Avian flu in wild birds.   I just sent the following e-mail to the Josephine County Health Department:

From: Kathy L. Dean [mailto:kathylynndean@MYDOMAIN.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:53 PM
To: 'publichealth@co.josephine.or.us'
Subject: Where are h5n1 vaccines given...
Importance: High

Tuesday, 21 March 2006

 

Kathy L. Dean

(Address and phone removed)

 

Public Health Department

Josephine County

715 NW Dimmick Street
Grants Pass, OR 97526
Phone: (541) 474-5325
Fax: (541) 474-5353

 

Please let me know via e-mail or phone where h5n1 vaccines are given.   This is a very simple question, and I am expecting a quick reply.   More than one person at the Federal level believes that the crows I found were in all probability infected with the Avian Virus.   Since I did not handle the birds correctly, as outlined in "An Early Detection System for Highly Pathogenic H5N1 Avian Influenza in Wild Migratory Birds - U.S. Interagency Strategic Plan" 

it was suggested I get the vaccine.

 

Please let me know immediately where it can be obtained.

 

Thank you,

 

Kathy L. Dean

 

Note to board members: I fully realize that the H5N1 strain could have mutated.   We shall see what I get back as a reply.   I have not yet heard back from the suggested doctor listed in the Federal document.

if they dont call back w/in a day or two tell them you're running a high fever........muahhhahah