Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Dead Crows & Potential Avian Flu |
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mommabear
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Hi Northern Momma. Yes nice avitar to you also! I hope you are correct. Like I said I try to stay up to date on bird flu and I had never heard this. Did you happen to go to the site? This was the first time I saw the site also so I wanted the opinion of others who like myself try to stay informed. Thanks for the reply also!
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Learn from the past,look toward the future.
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northern_mamma
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Hi mommabear. Yes, I went to both sites--if I understand what you mean. I'm not familiar with the fluplan.com site, but I felt it was irrresponsible in making that "10% statement". And I visited both links there (had read the Mercury News piece earlier, as well as the Rumsfeld thing.)
As to whether or not birds in North America are already infected...I'm not a betting woman--well okay, actually I am--and I'd bet that yes, they are. Birds, as well as other animals. I'm not an alarmist by nature, but I can't imagine how any reasonable person who's keeping up on this can draw any other conclusion. Frankly, I'm worried as hell. But I just wanted to set the record straight on that 10% statement. That ticked me off. NM |
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capricornmonkey
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I have seen the article that you were talking about, Mammabear. BF was found in feces in Northern Alaska last year but I don't believe that it was H5N1..the deadly strain. I beleive that is was on a website for Alaska or the migration of Alaskan bird or something. I'll try to find it.
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Jhetta
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Kathy L. Dean ,
I though you would find this interesting:
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEP20060328070732&Page=P&Title=Nation&Topic=0& Presence of live avian flu chain worrying: scientists
"BHOPAL: India may seem to have contained the spread of the bird flu, but scientists testing for the H5N1 virus say the presence of a live chain of the disease is worrying.Researchers at the High Security Animal Disease Laboratory here say that many of the samples are unfit for testing as proper procedures were not followed for their collection and preservation. "Most bird flu samples reaching us remain unfit for testing," H.K. Pradhan, head laboratory, told IANS. Several thousand samples, packed in iceboxes, arrive in the lab from various places. "Many of the samples come in such a poor condition that it is not possible for the virus to be alive," he lamented. The four samples that tested positive last week, he said, were from scattered domesticated population. "Though the samples showed the presence of the H5 virus, their N1 status could not been tested. "But it is quite certain that they would have tested positive for N1 as well which means the virus is still in the environment and a direct link exists, as H5N1 cannot transmit without a live carrier," Pradhan said" |
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JamesUSA
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Dead crows in Nepal: Excerpt from a Nepalese newspaper:Nepaleyes headlines: Hundreds of birds die in Kapilvastu Hundreds of birds die in Kapilvastu |
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JamesUSA
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Oh my goodness, I am so sorry I have not posted lately. I am trying to catch up on everything I didn't do around here last week!
I took the crows to the Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife office on Monday. I gave them to Mark A. Vargas, 541 826-8774 x228. He is tha District Wildlife Biologist for the Rogue Watershed, and his e-mail is Mark.A.Vargas@ state.or.us
He told me that he would drive the crows, plus all the fecal samples, plus my pond water sample, to Salem the following day. He had to attend a meeting, and would give the birds to someone he knew that lived in Corvallis.
Well, on Tuesday afternoon (03-28-06) I phoned Dr. Jerry Heidel, 541 737-6964, to make sure he had received the birds. He is the head of the labratory at the University. He said no, he hadn't, and was just wondering where they were.
So I phoned the ODFW and got Steve, who told me to not worry about my crows (Yeah, sure...He must have detected the panic in my voice) and he was just getting ready to phone Vargas, and he would get back to me.
Steve phoned back about 10 minutes later to tell me that Mark had given the crows to "Nancy Taylor" and she would take them to the Corvallis lab. I asked who she was; Steve had no idea, but again told me not to worry. Steve mentioned that the birds would probably not get to the lab until the following day, which is today.
I phoned Dr. Heidel back and told him the news; he had no idea who Nancy Taylor was; had never heard of her. I of course had this horrible sinking feeling in my stomach. I had not saved one of the crows as suggested, and had turned over all three to the ODFW.
Every time I tried to phone the lab today, the line was busy. Very strange. I believe the "Invitation Only" H5N1 meeting in Portland is tomorrow, but I will try to get ahold of someone in the lab. I am assuming that probably everyone that does lab work at the university will be at that meeting.
So yes, I am concerned. I told Dr. Heidel to please keep in touch with me so I know what is going on. In fact, I will e-mail him tonight, plus leave a message on his answering machine to make sure the crows are in the lab. I will let you all know tomorrow.
If they test positive, I have a feeling I will hear about it on the news, and not in person. I just don't think they will trust a "lowly citizen" with that type of info. I could be wrong. For health reasons alone, I had better find out ASAP!
I get more upset daily when I read the news articles on H5N1. I have never mentioned this, but my little 6 acre ranch is named "Rancho del Pajaro." Pajaro in Spanish means bird. I adore birds, and the thought of 80% of the species contacting H5N1 brings tears to my eyes. I can not even stand the thought.
I was raking the remaining leaves from my property today, because when H5N1 "officially" hits us, I do not want any leaf cover on the ground. It's legal to burn in Oregon this time of year, so when I get a huge pile, I set it on fire, making sure there are no overhanging limbs!
As I was standing there watching the fire, I noticed there were no birds chirping. There are normally always bird sounds coming from somewhere, especially in the spring. Plus the Gray tree squirrels are mating now, so they are normally yapping away. Absolute silence; not one sound. I started to cry because I can not even imagine a world without birds. They mean so much to me. I realize I should be more worried about people, especially since Oregon just made the announcement that 1/3 of the State's people could die because the hospitals are not prepared! Something is drastically the matter with this damn place, said Kathy, a third generation Native San Franciscan!!!
I am going to be posting quite a few things tonight; hope it's okay!
Kathy
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JamesUSA
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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ALASKA CHECKING ALL MIGRATORY BIRDS ETC:
This news article seems to suggest that Alaska plans to check ponds and rivers carefully for any kind of virus from bird droppings and so on....many kinds of birds. If Oregon gets it via migration over Alaska, the Alaskan efforts should help those in Oregon with foreknowledge.
JamesUSA
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Alaska to Run Bird Flu Tests in Lakes and Ponds
By Yereth Rosen ANCHORAGE, Alaska (Reuters) - Biologists in Alaska plan to test water samples from lakes and ponds in the habitats of migratory birds to check for traces of the deadly avian flu virus, state officials said on Wednesday. Alaska is considered North America's most likely point of entry for the H5N1 strain of bird flu, because it stands at a crossroads of wild waterfowl and shorebird migration to and from Asia. State officials plan to monitor the natural habitat of migratory birds for contamination from infected birds' droppings in addition to taking swabs from nearly 15,000 wild birds spread over more than two dozen species. "If we have birds bringing this in from Asia sit down on a water body, other species of birds that don't interact directly with Asia may also use that water body and pick up a virus," Matt Robus, director at Alaska's Division of Wildlife Conservation, told reporters. Mallards and pintails in the water could become infected and then carry the virus south, officials said. Although avian-to-human transmission is rare, people can contract bird flu after coming into contact with infected birds. The World Health Organization says 105 people are known to have died so far from the H5N1 strain. "If people avoid groups of sick and dead birds and only deal with healthy-appearing live ones there ought to be no exposure or very minimal risk," said Robus. Alaska's test results will be monitored carefully to see if the H5N1 virus, like other influenza viruses, mutates to become more contagious, said Richard Mandsager, director of Alaska's Division of Public Health. State and federal wildlife agencies have established a toll-free number for citizens to report bird die-offs or suspiciously sick birds, officials said. There is also a bill pending in the legislature to increase the state's authority to quarantine sick domesticated animals, including backyard poultry and pet birds that might be vulnerable to the strain of avian flu. |
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JamesUSA
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Some of my favorite Oregon quotes. Below each quote is the link to the article.
That prediction does not necessarily mean people, the poultry industry, pets or the economy would be afflicted. To this point, the disease has not spread directly from birds to humans -- only from people handling diseased live or uncooked poultry. (Huh?)
Whether the Bush administration's preparations for a pandemic that may never come amount to prudent planning or an overreaction has been a subject of debate among government spending experts. (Idiots!)
But it’s too early for action, an Oregon State University Extension Service poultry science specialist said. “Right now I would do nothing,” said Jim Hermes, who works with the state’s commercial poultry industry and with backyard growers. (And that seems to be exactly what OR is doing!)
"In regards to avian flu, the commercial poultry industry in Oregon is pretty biosecure," Baker said. "The biggest threat to this disease spreading from wild birds such as ducks is from the small outdoor, or backyard flocks." (Sure) http://www.oregonlive.com/news/argus/index.ssf?/base/news/114298037263730.xml&coll=6 Scientists say April through September of this year may be a crucial time frame in terms of knowing whether the disease will spread to the United States via migratory birds. (Get your heads out of the sand, or elsewhere)
U.S. wildlife experts have been monitoring wild migratory birds since the virus emerged in Asia in 1997. (Time for a vaccine?) "How much testing is done in California will depend on what is found in Alaska," said Al Donner, a spokesman for U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. (Give me strength.)
The H5N1 virus was first discovered in China in 1996. Spread by migratory birds, it is now in eastern Europe and northern Africa, as well as Asia. If birds from the West Coast become infected, waterfowl hunters potentially would be among the first humans in North America to encounter those birds and be exposed to H5N1. Remember, the sky is not falling. It's just full of bugs that you might want to know about. (This reporter should be shot. What is it? 1996 or 1997.)
The real impact of avian influenza is suppressed demand of leg quarters, and that’s helping depress all chicken prices,” he said.
When looking at current conditions in this country – the absence of highly pathogenic avian flu strains and tight biosecurity measures in large-scale domestic flocks – Mattos said that “a lot has to happen for it (avian flu) to turn into a pandemic.”
“We need to educate people about that,” he said. (This is all a joke, right? All they are worried about is the lowering of prices on chicken leg quarters!) Manoj Pastey, an assistant professor in biomedical science at the Oregon State University College of Veterinary Medicine, has received a $100,000 grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture to develop tests that would let poultry growers know within minutes whether their chickens harbor either the H5 or H7 types of avian influenza.
Pastey predicts a laboratory-scale test will be available within 18 months. Commercial development, he said, would take much longer. (Uh, you can buy them on the Internet already.)
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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I promised to post the Species of birds listed in the US Government H5N1 Document. I will break it into about four sections, with WATERFOWL being the first species listed. You will have to scroll right to see all tables:
Table 4-2. Waterfowl species as potential carriers of the Highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza subtype to
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kathylynndean, fantastic table of yours. Thanks for sharing it. I notice the tufted duck has no asian contact for US. It does in Europe. It is one I have been monitoring. It was first species found to have H5N1 in France. I live in UK so hence my interest. HD
PS you got greast response in this thread. I guess we all love birds even if we think our lives are important as well. |
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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This table covers SHOREBIRDS:
Table 4-3. Shorebird species as potential carriers of the Highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza subtype to
To further focus sampling, five criteria were employed to rank these migratory waterbirds and other migrants that are potential carriers of highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza virus (see Tables 4-4 to 4-6 below). These ranking criteria include 1) proportion of the population occurring in Asia, 2) contact with a known area of highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza virus, 3) habitats used in Asia, 4) population size in Alaska, and 5) likelihood of obtaining a representative sample of sufficient size. Table 4-7 is a summary of primary and secondary species that should be considered as sampling targets for highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza virus in the four major flyways (see also Attachment 5). |
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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This Table covers Waterfowl and Cranes:
Table 4-4. Ranking matrix for populations of waterfowl and cranes to be sampled for HPAI during the 2006 field season in
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JamesUSA
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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I have not noticed a publication source for this table. I like to keep sources available for further checking. Is it possible to post that, or have I just overlooked it??
Thank you for your time.
JamesUSA
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JamesUSA
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kathylynndean
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This Table covers the RANKING MATRIX for SHOREBIRDS to be tested/sampled:
Table 4-5. Ranking matrix for populations of shorebirds to be sampled for avian influenza during the 2006 field season in
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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This Table covers RANKING MATRIX for PASSERINES and LARID for HPAI sampling/testing:
Table 4-6. Ranking matrix for populations of passerines and a larid to be sampled for HPAI during the 2006 field season in
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kathylynndean
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INTERESTING TABLE
This Table shows the INDIVIDUAL SPECIES designated for all four flyways.
Table 4-7. Suggested migratory bird species for highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza surveillance in the four North American flyways.
Sample SizeWhen sampling for highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza virus it is critical that an appropriate sample size for each species or species group in each designated sample population is obtained. Equation 1 provides a method for calculating the recommended sample size: n = log (1-c) / log(1-p) (eq. 1) where n is the sample size, c is the desired level of confidence, and p is the prevalence of positive samples in the population. An adequate sample size should allow for >95% confidence that AI is detected at < 1.5% prevalence. These criteria result in an estimated sample size of 200: n = log (1-.95) / log (1-0.015) = 200 Thus, a minimum of 200 samples should be collected from the population of interest based on an assumed prevalence of 1.5% of highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza. We caution that this calculation is very sensitive to the assumed prevalence, which we can not know a priori. For example, if prevalence of the disease at the time of sampling is 0.1% (i.e., 1 in 1000 birds is infected) the necessary sample size is 3000. As prevalence decreases the likelihood of detecting the disease in an individual bird also decreases due to the low probability of detection and practical limitations on laboratory processing capability. We also caution that this formula is weakened here because it is based on assumptions that may not apply to H5N1 virus in wild birds, namely that the agent is homogeneously distributed within a host population that also is homogeneously distributed. |
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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FROM THE GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT RELEASED ON 14 MARCH 2006.
Just some excerpts that I found interesting in no particular order:
Avian Influenza viruses (AI) are released by waterfowl through the intestinal tract and viable virus can be detected in both feces and the water in which the birds swim, defecate and feed. This is the principle means of virus spread to new avian hosts and potentially to poultry and other susceptible livestock. Analysis of both water and fecal material from waterfowl habitat can provide evidence of AI virus circulating in wild bird populations, the specific AI subtypes, levels of pathogenicity, and possible risks to livestock.
(Bothers me:) Accredited laboratories have the capacity and infrastructure to analyze a limited number of samples for AI. The anticipated sampling effort for this surveillance study will require an investment in equipment and staff to provide results in a timely fashion. Equipment needs include real-time PCR thermalcyclers, RNA extraction capabilities, DNA sequencing capabilities, tissue culture and egg culture facilities, ultracold freezers, centrifuges and vacuum pumps.
Avian influenza (AI) is a type A influenza virus that is naturally found in certain species of waterfowl and shorebirds. However, the occurrence of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) subtype highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza has raised concern regarding the potential impact on wild birds, domestic poultry, and human health should it be introduced into the United States (U.S.). Numerous potential routes for introduction of the virus into the
Avian influenza viruses are classified on the basis of two proteins, hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N), found on the surface of the virus. Specific viral subtypes have one of 16 different H proteins and one of 9 different N proteins, resulting in 144 possible combinations or subtypes based on this classification scheme. Within each subtype, there are numerous combinations of genetic sequences that determine the pathogenicity of the subtype to an infected host. (This answers a lot of questions:) Wild birds, in particular certain species of waterfowl and shorebirds, are considered to be the natural reservoirs for all 144 subtypes. These subtypes are adapted to survive in these wild species and usually cause little or no disease. However, gradual genetic drift (i.e., mutation) can occur and a particular subtype can become adapted to infect other species of wild birds and domestic birds. Although this slight genetic change in the virus allows it to infect new species, it usually does not cause disease in the new host. The virus can also change if a host is simultaneously infected with another type A influenza virus. In such situations, mixing of the genetic material from the two virus strains (genetic shift) can occur, resulting in the formation of a new strain. The combination of gradual drifts and rapid shifts results in the production of a strain that now causes morbidity and mortality in susceptible hosts. If the morbidity and mortality is significant, the virus is classified as a highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) virus. (Important dates:) During 1995-96, it is thought that antigenic drift occurred in an AI virus of wild birds, allowing the virus to infect chickens in
(This is also bothersome) On 10 August 2005, the Working Group met by teleconference to initiate development of a “Plan For the Detection of HPAI Virus in Migratory Birds in the
(The Plan:) If highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza virus spreads to North America via migratory birds, the above analysis of the major flyways suggests that the virus would most likely arrive first in This approach prioritized the following regions in decreasing order of importance: 1. 2. Central Flyway 3 4. Atlantic Flyway
(Collection:) If If birds are found morbid or dead, it is important to use proper personal protection techniques (http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/research/WHB/WHB_05_03.html, http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/professional/protect-guid.htm) and to submit the entire carcass to a veterinary diagnostic laboratory for necropsy (Attachment 8). Field biologists should contact the specific laboratory that they will be working with well in advance of any specimen collection and shipping to receive specific instructions for specimen submissions to that laboratory. Laboratories should always be notified ahead of time when a shipment is being made to their facility. |
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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This Table shows the LOON species as potential carriers.
Table 4-1. Loon species as potential carriers of the highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza subtype to
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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How to PACK UP and SHIP those darn birds:
Purpose:
The purpose of this standard operating procedure is to ensure diagnostic specimens are shipped safely and in compliance with governing regulations and requirements. Shippers of diagnostic specimens where a relatively low probability exists that infectious substances are present (diagnostic specimens being transported to undergo routine screening tests or for the purpose of initial diagnosis may be considered to fall under this category) must comply with the International Air Transportation Association (IATA) Dangerous Goods Regulations. The shipper must also ensure that shipments are prepared in such a manner that they arrive at their destination in good condition and that they present no hazard to persons or animals during shipment. Procedures:
Federal Express is the preferred carrier for the USDA/NWRC. Use next day service.
An absorbent material sufficient to absorb the entire contents of all primary receptacles must be placed between the primary receptacle and the secondary packaging. The outer packaging (i.e., cardboard box or cooler) must be of adequate strength for its capacity, weight, and intended use (capable to withstand being dropped at least 1.2 meters, without leakage of the primary receptacle or significant damage to the outer packaging).
An itemized list of contents must be enclosed between the secondary packaging and the outer packaging. To protect against possible leakage, the list should be enclosed in a sealed plastic bag.
A Shippers Declaration for Dangerous Goods is not required. However, both the air waybill and the outer box must show the text "DIAGNOSTIC SPECIMEN PACKED IN COMPLIANCE WITH IATA PACKING INSTRUCTION 650".
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Hi James USA,
Yes, I have listed the source, but I have no idea which posting it is in. It is the official US response to H5N1 and it was released on 14 March 2006. It can be downloaded in either MS Word or PDF format. I downloaded the Word version, and it is 91 pages long and 1.37MB in size. BTW, there is not one mention of crows in the entire document.
Go to: http://www.usda.gov/ and just look for the following:
An Early Detection System for Highly Pathogenic H5N1Avian Influenza in Wild Migratory Birds
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JamesUSA
Valued Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks for highlighting that source info Kathy Lynn!!
JamesUSA
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JamesUSA
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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This is my last posting, Part One. I was asked to list all State reps and labs, and here they are:
I could not put all info on one page. NOTE: I listed the "primary" States in RED.
Veterinary Laboratories Currently Certified to Conduct Highly pathogenic
H5N1 avian influenza Virus Diagnostics
This list represents the National Animal Health Laboratory Network (NAHLN) labs certified as of
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The thought of fed-exing a bird albeit a dead one is amusing.
'...Although this slight genetic change in the virus allows it to infect new species, it usually does not cause disease in the new host...' We've all been concerned on this one. I wonder sometimes why we are not attacking the flu at source. I.e. in birds. We've had scores of years to achieve this and we would not be in the predicament that are getting into now if we had acted. Thanks again, these tables are very informative kathylyndean. |
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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You know up here we have a lot of lakes, people swimming in them, as well as ducks. I wonder if that is dangerous now?
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Siam
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Hi Siameselade,
I had to send a sample of my pond water to the lab. It is one of the major ways that H5N1 is transmitted due to the Government document.
I just finished writing a loooong note and lost it!!! If these crows test positive, do I drain my pond? What about my approx 250 foot long and over gold fish? Will they be contaminated? Is every King Fisher and Great Blue Heron that eats those fish contaminated?
Dr. Jerry Heidel phoned me a while ago, and the test results will be in this afternoon. They started testing the crows immediately yesterday morning. I am a nervous wreck. I don't want to lose my animals that I love so much, so I hope they test negative.
But I do believe that H5N1 is in Oregon, so if I have to sacrifice my animals, it will be the best for society. It's just that I have lost so much I love this past year, including a husband of 23 years to divorce. I have no family, I never had children, and all of my friends are in California. And the area of Oregon that I live in is not known for compassion. They would rather shoot birds than save birds, and my whole property is designed to be a wildlife habitat and protection area. I'll probably be hauled off to jail if they test positive and be blamed for bringing H5N1 to the area! Stupid people!
My ex-husband picked up what he thought was an abandoned chicken from a super market late at night. I phoned the market the following day when I found out the chicken "hung-out" there. They ended up giving us Speckles, and never pressed charges, but 6 days later a SWAT team jumped my fence at 1:30AM and grabbed the chicken AND my husband! Seven cops and a total of 6 squad cars. One car sat at the end of the road in case my ex "tried to escape with the chicken!" They would not let him get dressed and took him to jail naked with no shoes (he is diabetic) with only his red briefs on. They forced him to walk over 3/4 minus base rock for approx 150 feet. Barefoot and diabetic. It was an illegal arrest, and the DA ended up dropping all charges, but we went through one year of hell.
The cops immediately put the chicken back in the store parking lot, and a teenager kicked her to death two weeks later. The media lied to the public, but I read the police report. I was so sickened. Plug "Nick Gombos, Speckles, Arrest" into Google; you won't believe what happened to us.
I really am nervous about these test results. The minute I hear, I will post...Kathy
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oknut
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 847 |
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Kathy,
I just read 3 of the articles that came up in Google. The whole thing is horrible and ridiculous. I hope your crows test negative - you have been through too much already. Thank you for sharing with us. Deb (oknut) |
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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This is my last posting, Part Two. I was asked to list all State reps and labs, and here they are:
I could not put all info on one page. NOTE: I listed the "primary" States in RED.
Veterinary Laboratories Currently Certified to Conduct Highly pathogenic
H5N1 avian influenza Virus Diagnostics
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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They tested NEGATIVE, but Dr. Heidel thanked me for being "a responsible citizen" and submitting them. He had also thought there was a possibility they could test positive.
I asked him what they did die from, and he said he did not know. They only tested for H5N1. He said they probably died from poison. We hear that word a lot, don't we?
He thinks the first case of H5N1 will show up in a backyard poultry flock, so we shall see. It remains a mystery why birds keep dropping out of the sky and washing up on shore in Oregon. Maybe it is just the Hunta Virus, Lassa fever, Rift Valley virus, Junin virus, Machuppo virus, Guanarito virus, or maybe a flesh eating bacteria......
Signed, A bit relieved that my property will not be surrounded by yellow tape and considered contaminated...Kathy
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Thank God! I've been so worried. BIG SIGH.................. Thanks for all of your hard work on this one! |
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Kathy wrote: If birds from the West Coast become infected, waterfowl hunters potentially would be among the first humans in North America to encounter those birds and be exposed to H5N1.
Here is what the California Department of Fish and Game is recommending to California Hunters
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wmd/Avianflu_05.pdf Are bird hunting dogs at risk of getting Avian
Suggested reading... As you can see we are finding virus's can and do jump species.
There are documented cases of H5N1 infecting Dogs. Animal Health Special Report
http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/subjects/en/health/diseases-cards/avian_cats.html Avian influenza (H5N1) viruses isolated from humans in Asia in 2004 exhibit increased virulence in mammals.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16140756&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum The origins of new pandemic viruses: the acquisition of new host ranges by canine parvovirus and influenza A viruses.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16153179&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_docsum Evolution In Action: Why Some Viruses Jump Species
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060316091731.htm H5N1 in Dogs and Cats ~"The expanded geographical reach and host range of H5N1 is cause for concern. The spread of H5N1 allows for more dual infections, recombinations, and new sequences causing new problems. Moreover, these new sequences can increase the affinity for human receptors, such as S227N, and can be generated in avian hosts infected with H5N1 and H9N2 as predicted previously."
http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02140601/H5N1_Dogs_Cats.html H5N1 Canine Deaths in Thailand "However, if it is passed from dog to dog, it is another cause for concern because the H5N1 circulating in Thailand generates a very high case fatality rate in humans and there is little difference between H5N1 isolated from birds and cats and H5N1 isolated from fatal human cases."
http://www.recombinomics.com/news/10040401/canine_deaths.html H5N1 Bird Flu Infection in Mink Expands Host Range ~ "E627K is found in all human H1, H2, H3 serotypes and is associated with the ability of the polymerase to efficiently function at lower temperatures (33 C) compared to E627 (41 C). Prior to last year, E627K had not been found in any bird H5N1 isolates. However, at Qinghai Lake, all 16 bird isolates has E627K and all Qinghai H5N1 strain isolates reported since last year have had E627K. The presence of E627K in all Qinghai isolates may increase the likelihood of mammalian infections from eating H5N1 infected birds. Therefore, the number of mammalian species infected with H5N1 may be significantly higher than those reported above. Transmission of H5N1 to other mammalian species increases the likelihood of recombination and acquisition of mammalian polymorphisms, which can lead to an expanded host range.
The fixing of E627K in H5N1 in long range migratory birds may have significant impact" http://www.recombinomics.com/News/03280601/H5N1_Mink.html H5N1 Bird Flu Detected in Live Cats in Austria
http://www.recombinomics.com/News/03060604/H5N1_Austria_Cats.html Emailed a copy of this to dyparraguirre@dfg.ca.gov and news@kusi.com
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araywood
Adviser Group Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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Kathylynndean
I am glad to hear the test came back negative. However keep your eyes open for any suspicious (HUMAN) type activity around the pond. I don't like being a Jerk. I think you would have gotten the same answer if it was infected. Let us hope it is negative truly.
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NO NEWS IS WHO NEWS
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Fiddlerdave
Valued Member Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 259 |
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Looked up your references to your "incident" and the pages about your malevolent criminal activities! Such a hoot! Maybe the sheriff's TV cable was out, and his wife had exiled him to the couch for being a jerk, so he had nothing to do. Does go to show no good deed goes unpunished!
However, I would point this out as a thought to consider for those who, in the event of a panemic, would want to abandon all inmates to die of starvation. "Criminals" like you are all too common in our penal system, and "good honest men" like the sheriff are all too common in postions of power. And a majority of people are willing and happy to give power to the people like that sheriff to listen to their phones, read their mail, enter their homes, and arrest them without Habeus Corpus (keep you in secret, forever, on their whim) whenever a guy like that feels like it!!?? The USA is in a sorry state.
Really enjoyed your web site! Lovely work! Thanks for all the references, and now I know what to expect when a dozen dead birds are lying by my feeder and I try to see what happened. Thank you.
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Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"! |
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Fiddlerdave
Valued Member Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 259 |
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PS When I said, "Such a Hoot!", I do want you to know that I am sure that was is hell for you and Nick. I hope you end owning city hall in a damage suit. Maybe if the voters shell out 20 million they will think about how they want rational people in postions of authority.
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Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"! |
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Kathy,
As a former deputy sheriff I feel obligated to explain the real charge against your husband for chicken theft. The real charge is MDM or PDO (standing for 'Made the Deputy Mad', or 'Pissed the Deputy Off')
These are very serious personal offenses because they offend the pubic's sense of decadence and good order. The deputy in question is an authorized defender of the pubic order and had no choice but to prosecute your husband to the fullest in order to set an example for other would be chicken thieves and no count neer'- do - wells.
The MDM charge has been fulled supported in the courts by none other than Judge Roy R Bean who said, 'When it comes to chicken thieves, we always give'em a fair trial before we hang'em.'
You and your husband are very fortunate to have escaped the wrath of the law. In the future, please steal all your chickens from Sanders, Col. Retired.
Deputy Dawg
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kathylynndean
Valued Member Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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LOL! Thanks for the "head's up" Snicklefritz. Yes, it was quite an ordeal. AP picked up the story, and it literally went around the world in one day. My web site is so out of date it's ridiculous. I have not touched it for 2 years, and it needs reformatting, things are not working on it, etc. Both Leno and Letterman did jokes about the Josephine County Sheriff Department and Nick, plus the residents of Grants Pass wrote letters to the editor for months! They are still upset about it. People can never get the Sheriff to respond to anything, he is always complaining about lack of funds, and then he pulled a stunt like that. They did NOTHING legal. You can not even go after chickens later than 10:00PM! If a warrant has to be served, it has to be before 10:00PM unless it is murder, or something like that.
They never presented a search warrant, they all jumped my fence to get in without announcing they were here to get Speckles, they broke my automatic iron gate to push Nick through when exiting (I could not see what was happening at the gate, but I could have opened it from inside the house) and they arrested Nick because he turned around to come in the house to get some clothes!!! They said he was fleeing the scene! I can laugh now, but it was traumatic beyond belief. And, lots of newspapers referred to Nick as a "Chicken Thief!" Can you imagine? Plus the SPCA had told us to keep the chicken since they were investigating complaints about people tracking chicken s**t into the grocery store!
I received another call from Dr. Heidel, and he said the crows tested negative for WNV.
If anything came from this, I think we all had a crash course in crows and their relation to H5N1. Plus, we all know a lot more about crows and Avian Flu than the average person. In fact, we all know a lot more about that subject than most Vets, State and Federal Health workers....
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http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/search/Avian+Flu/SIG=1261r37ui/*http%3A//www.newsreview.info/article/20060331/NEWS/60331012/-1/rss01
Someone is listening to you Kathy.....
State preps for possible flu pandemicMarch 31, 2006 |
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