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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
does the Government tell the truth? |
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 Posted: July 04 2006 at 7:21pm |
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gghugs: We all feel protective of the forum, at least I hope we do.
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Posted: July 04 2006 at 8:23pm |
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Standingfirm, there is a little more to the story of why this upsets me but it is very personal and I don't want to post it here. I sent an e-mail to Albert in hopes he could somehow forward it to you. I think it will explain it better.
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Posted: July 04 2006 at 9:44pm |
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gghugs - I agree wholeheartedly with you and there has been plenty of this kind of talk. It comes and goes, and sometimes it's trolls that just want attention and get a kick out of being disruptive. I don't know where the line is drawn in this forum. Most of the time I try to "use" it to sharpen my patience and tolerance skills! That being said, WHENEVER people start in on religion or politics, people WILL get angry. I hope that those who choose to be confrontational on these subjects know that to do so is neither kind nor helpful. If they want to discuss whether what they say is TRUE, there are other places to this.
I consider it as a lack of respect towards other forum members. Gghugs, I hope you will be able to continue on the forum and that this is resolved for you.
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Posted: July 04 2006 at 10:23pm |
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I see many issues here, especially toward the end of the thread. First, the topic of the thread is "Does the government tell the truth?" Obviously the discussion is going to be political.
Second, the term "government" can be taken in several ways. I agree with everyone that the majority of people working in and for the government, are honest, hard-working people, who have the best interests of all of us in mind. The way I read the topic of this thread is that "government" refers to the decision makers at the head of the chain, so to speak. These are the men who make the policies that all the others "in government" must follow. So when someone talks about the government doing this or that, I think we need to be more specific about what part or of whom we are talking. Third, nobody here was confrontational, no insults or disrespecting others' opinions went on, until trailsend came on to sabotage the thread by a personal attack on EaglesDancing. From there on the thread went downhill. Fourth, a thread does become out of hand and an embarrasment when people start disrespecting the others posting on the thread. Gohugs, I found your criticism of "us people" highly confrontational, and disrespectful to the others posting here and their opinions. You may have a different opinion than that expressed by the majority on this thread; if so, speak out and give your opinion and the reasons, with clarity and respect, not vitriole. JMHO |
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Posted: July 04 2006 at 11:36pm |
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Perhaps I can make my position clearer. First of all I believe we have the greatest country in the world. My family continues to fight for it and my son who recently came back from Iraq respects his commander in chief as well he should. With that being said we are still not perfect and not pointing fingers at anyone- because I don't know who to yell to- more needs to be done at some level to get the word out so people will have a fighting chance!
I know what flag I fly.
I don't wish anyone to die.
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 8:31am |
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I also believe that if we are to be good shepards, then we cannot desert our flocks.
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ShaRenKa
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Joined: May 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 301 |
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 9:53am |
This is a very sad statement..."I personally don't think the US government lies any more than the "average" American".... I myself take great pride in my truthfulness. Scary to think there arn't many of us out there IF in fact VT is right, I pray not. |
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Sha Ren Ka
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 9:59am |
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No doubt with such a title things are going to get heated. It might be a little more fair to ask - Do the governments (including all world governements, not just the U.S.) tell the truth. There are of course sins of ommision and commission. Things done as opposed to information not released. The things done debate could rage onward not accomplishing a great deal. The information withheld topic however, is much more significant.
It is a rather diffiicult and time consuming task to sort through the 2nd or final reports. These are often not publicized and much more damning than the initial "negatives" which later turn to be positives and are not given much press if any. This has happened a lot in my research. Total H5N1 positives, first declared to be negative - or "not spread from person to person" later admitted to have been spread. No doubt, politically, and simply looking at the vote count, a lot of people are unhappy with a lot of people. Problem is, we face a very simple but complex issue. What happens when a country officially declares it has bird or even human Avian? Well, this is so touchy, that were it to happen in the U.S., it would cause a lot of changes. And these changes to some are unacceptable. For instance, simply the belief there is one human case, even if contained, would or could be brutal to industries, politicians, and organizations. No matter how much denial (when you are explaining you are losing) the backlash could be rotten economy for two years even if there is no Pandemic. So, obviously, there will be attempts to delay or even withhold information from the public. And in some instances, we are hit with complete untruths which are totally false. Meanwhile, the virus continues to spread. We do need accurate and timely information on Avian in our country - no matter who sells how many chicken wings or doesn't. Only option is to prepare and keep looking for information where it cannot be hidden. It is sad not everyone takes it seriously. But at the same time, if they did, it would be too late for you to get ready for a Pandemic that will happen. |
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ShaRenKa
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Joined: May 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 301 |
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 10:01am |
 Well said Med!
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Sha Ren Ka
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NZ er
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Joined: March 27 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 11:51am |
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Firstly I apologize to anyone I have offended or upset over my previous post on this thread. I had no intention other than to report how just ONE individual with whom I spoke, intended to deal with the situation. I feel really upset.. as this person I believe, because of the position held, has a responsibility to inform, prepare, guide and support a mass of lives that look to him/her for exactly these purposes.
It is a sad fact of life.. but the truth is, that perhaps many of those that hold 'positions' may not be there for us when we seek information, are afraid, need help and support... and we most likely will not know that until the real need arrives
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Land of the Long White Cloud
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 12:31pm |
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NZer - you didn't offend anyone, believe me. When I addressed gghugs, it was because of other posts here that were rude and off-the-wall. Infact, I would have reacted the same way to the situation you described - post on!
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 2:26pm |
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Eagles Dancing,
I apologize for quoting your two posts together, embarrassing you. I might have been having a bad day, or maybe it's just because you hit a couple of my flashpoints. I just think that many folks, and you're not alone, are so frustrated with the PTB that they demonize them with no recognition that sometimes good things are done also. Our government, including GB, is addressing the bird flu, they are planning, allocating money and telling the citizens about it. Is it enough? Don't know. Are they deceiving us? Don't know. Point is, we really know very little about the complexities of governing and all the pressures, factors and interests that influence it. People on both sides of the political fence sometimes see only the bad and none of the good in their opponents.
Part of my frustration here has been looking for news and preparations, but hearing political rants with no real facts or analysis behind it. Having said that waaaaay too many times, I will now leave it in peace.
Again, I am sorry. I shouldn't have responded to your post in that manner.
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Eagles Dancing
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Joined: April 03 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 3:28pm |
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Thank you TrailsEnd, My post regarding Bush was in regards to the fact he has us in a country fighting for the wrong reasons. We were mislead in that issue and if he is misleading us again regarding the bird flu and causes many misinformed people to die, then I hope he is held accountable for his actions and dies like the folks who he harmed. God does take out people for their wrong doings. Just read the bible. You'll find people died just for looking at something that an angel told them not to look at. ( regarding Lot's wife looking back at the terrible things happening in Sodom and Gomorrah) So my words are not that far from some of the actions in the bible. So here we go judging Eagles Dancing for the words she has spoken. If I had been more of an atheist you'll all wouldn't have any problem with my post. Judge not lest you be judged?? Standingfirm, your post are true, but we are not to be mislead by false sheppards and you are to be discerning of the people who are our leaders. End Times will come to pass and God will allow the Anti-Christ to do what has been predicted to fulfill the words spoken long ago by Christ himself. So when it comes to being all nice and sweet because your a Christian, well I take that to a level with my brothers and sisters in Christ, but those who are of the world and refuse to answer to God's calling, they are in another department with me. Bush has hid behind the bible, but down in his heart I see greed and false statements that has cost a lot of American lives. Thats where I am coming from sorry to offend anyone...but I don't have to answer to you. God is the one I have to be concerned about. You have your thoughts and I have mine, so lets agree to disagree......again. What is with this forum? I don't like the added comments. They are boring, but I will not back down from someone's insults that are aimed at me. That's the way it is. You don't like my post. Go on and get over it. I don't post my personal feelings about post I don't agree with. Heck it is America and you have the right to voice your thoughts, but don't tell me to shut up when I state mine. Now with all that said the thread's topic does the Government tell the truth? That sounds like the author is wanting to hear our personal thoughts. That is what I posted. My thoughts and I am not trying to force anyone to agree with my thoughts. You can have your own. I truly feel the comments aimed at me is because of my signature on my post. When you mention God then here comes all the folks trying to beat you down for believing in God. TOUGH!! Get over it. Time and time again I have had to battle with some one......maybe the same person, different ID, who has it out for me. I have as much a right on this forum as you do so GROW UP. I have always walked in my moccasins to the beat of a different drummer, and that is never going to change. If the public school couldn't take it out of me when I was there then you sure are not going to change me on this forum. If you are truly worried about someone seeing this mess on this forum then don't post your rude post toward me. While pointing your fingers at me, just look at what your are doing yourself. You picked a fight with me. I never post anything against you personally. So why do you feel it is so important to try and change the way I think and act. Maybe there are folks reading this that don't agree with your post. Do you really want someone to post something about your post and try to embarrass or belittle you on a forum?? This is not just aimed toward TrailsEnd, but all of you who have in the past posted something against my posts. This is really silly for adults to get into a feud on a forum over someone's personal thoughts. So are you trying to censor me? That's real American of you, isn't it. Think about what you are really mad at me about. Is it me or God or something else? Just having a bad day? OK sorry about that but don't take it out on me. If you want to post something...find something worth posting.....OK????
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As for me and my house, we shall trust the Lord.
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Eagles Dancing
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Joined: April 03 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 3:59pm |
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Albert,
How can you find out if there are folks using several different ID's to post things.....making it appear that they are someone else?
I know you are busy with other things and I hate to bother you but this is really getting silly how out of all the post on this forum, there continues to be someone with issues against me.
I saw one other person get this type of business and that was Hightech2. They went after him like he was fresh meat and they were hungry dogs. Maybe it is something against how people from Indiana think and talk that upsets this forum, since he is from IN too. I understand why some have been offended by his statements. I realize that most of you work for the government it sounds like. He has a wife that works for the county government so he really wasn't anti-government.....so I just think you railroaded him for speaking out with his personal thoughts.
I don't see why one persons thoughts are that more important than others?
If you don't agree with someone so what?? You don't have to attack them.
I understand he has been band from the forum. I don't see what he was saying as such a threat to the forum. I might not be what I agree with but he had a right to speak his mind. It's not like he was threating to harm someone or talking dirty on here. It's American censoring at its best in work. If you aren't in the majority you are out of here. That is really sad. What if he was right with his statements and really had something to tell us all. Now he is banned and we can't change that, because the power of the forum removed him with out any recourse to disagree and state his side of things to all interested in what he had to say.
Come on people be a little more open minded. Are you really threatened by someone's thoughts?
Does the government tell the truth? No they hide it from the majority by censoring all that don't agree with them the majority that is political correct.
Jesus himself might just be stopped on this forum because of who he is. Jesus was one to speak out against the hyopcrites of his time.
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As for me and my house, we shall trust the Lord.
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 4:00pm |
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Fourth, a thread does become out of hand and an embarrasment when people start disrespecting the others posting on the thread. Gohugs, I found your criticism of "us people" highly confrontational, and disrespectful to the others posting here and their opinions. You may have a different opinion than that expressed by the majority on this thread; if so, speak out and give your opinion and the reasons, with clarity and respect, not vitriole.
...................................................................................................................... Thank you rutsuvasun, well put.
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In future... if someone attacks, please do not answer it, it will die right there, we need to ignore such unkind posts. We often have some friendly banter but outright confrontation should be ignored. If you accidently answer go back and edit your post if you like.
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 5:13pm |
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Eagles Dancing: A. Jesus was perfect and did not sin. His condemnation was perfect also. We do not even come close.
We are of similar beliefs, at least I think we are, and I was a bit taken aback by your comment that Bush should be the first to go. In the context that it was said, it sounded like you were really wishing ill of our president. Criticize his policies, on those we can debate. But wishing ill of anyone, anyone is out of the ballpark, you know what I mean? Having said that, we all say things in the frustration of it all that, upon reflection, sounded a little harsher than we meant them to. Take this comment for instance. I mean what I say with all gentleness and humility toward you. I do not fear thoughts and I have defended the concept of not censoring people on the forum almost to my banishment. When the line is crossed, and I believe it was, people will and should let you know. If I ever miss-speak I am willing to be corrected, unless it is about my right to speak of my faith. That I will go to my death for. With sincerity and in peace, SF |
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Oisanatta
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Joined: May 08 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 308 |
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 8:04pm |
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If Bush is first to go, where does Clinton stand in line?.....other than in the WhiteHouse back room hallways drooling. Is what he did with the stained blue dress any better? And what about the Prez before him, and the one before that one, etc, etc. Or the ones next in line. Name a "clean" politician who has made it to the top without some dirty laundry or who did everything in office to the 100% satisfaction of 100% of the people?....it's impossible!
Sadam was a meatball (still is). The guy in Iran is a jerk, and the one in North Korea is a complete loonball. And we can go on from there. This ain't the "Garden of Eden" anymore, and I will be going up to Adam and Eve one day and (facetiously) thanking them for eating the apple and getting us into this mess! I don't agree with everything that Bush has done, but he sure is a heck of a lot better than what his predecessor was or what his last opponent would have been like. |
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The only thing worse than a brutal lie is the brutal truth. (M Twain) I waited patiently for the LORD; He turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the pit; He set my feet on a rock. Psalm40
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 8:16pm |
It is best to leave any political feelings and religious belief behind when posting on this thread. |
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VtDoc wrote: