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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

"Don’t Stand Too Close to ME!" - Event Date: December 07 2006
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    Posted: December 07 2006 at 6:19pm

I was thinking today.  How many of you have squeezed onto a full elevator at the mall, or at work?

How many of you have eaten in the food court of the mall, or in an airport food court and not even been able to sit down immediately because there are so many people there eating, then quickly grab a table that comes empty, ignoring the food grime on it?

How many of you have stood almost in a strangers face while on a subway train?  Or bus?

I was thinking about all of this today as I was reading a historical based paper on the 1918 pandemic.  There are so many changes with today's personal bounderies.... back then, you weren't a gentleman if you stood too close to a woman you didn't know, and "too familiar" if you stood too close to a man you didn't know.  People kept their distance from one another, almost as if they'd been instructed that it was the safe thing to do.  Today, we are more concerned with missing the bus, the train, the subway, the elevator, or offending someone by not standing close that we just do it.  Everyday, in multiple places. 

It made me think to the last time I took the kids with me to the mall.  We had one in a stroller, got on, folks crowded all around.  My oldest one got upset because everyone was "too close" and my 2 year old wanted to be picked up.  It freaked them out.  I was embarrassed by the fuss they made, told them to please be still.  Now I realize - I'm teaching them that standing close like that is OK, it's something "you do."  I never thought about it quite like that until today.  And I'm going to be doing things a bit different with my kids in the future.
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4abbie&maddie,
 
I have never liked crowded elevators and similiar things. I always thought I better not get a cold from this!
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"...ignoring the food grime on it?..."
.......................................................
 
This made me smile....   I always wipe the table w/hand sanitizer.  (no need where a cloth is used) My mom calls me... Doris.  ("Doris will check it out first.")
 
Seems (story goes) Doris Day would go into the kitchen of a restaurant to determine if the place was clean enough to eat in....
 
right on Doris... 
 
 
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Here is another tip. I'm a registered nurse and believe me when I say that patient rooms are not cleaned well enough after discharge from the hospital. If you or anyone you know goes into the hospital, take a container of Clorox Wipes into the room and sanitize EVERYTHING including all door knobs, phone, call light, side rails of the bed, the chair armrests, the faucets and all things in the bathroom. This will give you some protection, and then you can piss off the staff and ask them to wash their hands before they touch you. They should do it every time, but it doesn't happen often enough.
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anharra,

I allways go into the bathroom before I eat at a restaurant. Not just to wash my hands but to check it out. If there is no soap in the dispenser I am not eating there. Filthy bathrooms mean filthy kitchens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2006 at 5:19am
I'm beggining to really despise the custom of shaking hands and it always seems someone comes up to me right after I'ved washed my hands or right before lunch.
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In the post office yesterday I noticed a clerk wearing latex gloves. I told her I thought it was a great idea and we got talking about how easily illnesses were spread. She said her young daughter has to take wipes to school and they all have to wipe their own desks because the janitors don't do it.      
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I work as a cashier at both my jobs and the first thing I do is wipe everything down with clorox wipes and then sanitize my hands. I handle money all day long and U can just imagine how chocked full of germs it is. Nasty. I must sanitize my hands hundreds of times a day.
I have customers come thru my lines with open bleeding cuts, bleeding on the money sometimes and sometimes people use spit 2 unstick money. I actually witnessed one customes spit directly on his fingers and some of it splattered on my counter. I immediately gave him a look of distane and sanitized right after he gave me the tainted money.  People are disgusting and inadvertantly spread way 2 many germs. I just may start wearing gloves while I work!
Get Prepared!!!
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I have become very disciplined in the art of wiping.  Although I'm a fledgling agorophobic, we still go shopping every Saturday morning.  My wife carries a small bottle of Purel in her purse, and after I find the one shopping cart that tracks true and straight, I wipe my hands and the handle of the cart.  I read that a supermarket shopping cart has more germs on it than a bathroom handle.  Not sure of the acuracy of this statement, but I'm a huge believer in hand sanitizer.  Got the big 40 (oz) at work and use it several times a day.  I won't use an elevator unless I have to.  I need more stairs work anyway.  I don't like shakjiong hands, but I wont be rude if someone offers theirs.  I DO remember that I shook hands, and I kind of let it dangle at my side until I can clean it.  I'm not Howard Hughs crazy, but ya'll are starting to make me feel that way!Pinch
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Originally posted by 7laws 7laws wrote:

anharra,

I allways go into the bathroom before I eat at a restaurant. Not just to wash my hands but to check it out. If there is no soap in the dispenser I am not eating there. Filthy bathrooms mean filthy kitchens.
 
That is a great idea. I am going to start doing that. Thanks
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I once asked the head of the health department what restaurants he recommends and he said "none" and I asked him where he eats out and he said "I don't." His department is responsible for restarurant inspections.
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we usually listen to the health department's restaurant reports on the news ~ most times we just watch the sanitary practices of the restaurant workers ... touching their face/hair, cross-contamination of foods, overall cleanliness of the tables/counters - if we see any of that, we leave.  And, whenever we travel, I have to sanitize the motel rooms we stay in - throw a sheet over the bedspread -or- pull down the covers before relaxing.

So yeah, carry around packets of handwipes/hand sanitizers ... you just never know other peoples habits ...
"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Cruiser, when it come to shaking hands if I just washed them and I am going to eat. I go back and wash them again. I try to be discreet as possible to not hurt their feelings.
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Oh this is an area that really gets me, Praying in Church, before mreals, in hospital waiting rooms HOLDING HANDS! I can't stand holding hands especially with someone with a visable cold. Yes, I have said no thanks in some cases. I carry the purse size hand sanitizer and you've all heard about the 10 ounce Hand-Sanitizer I keep in the car cup holder I immediately use when I get in the vehicle from anywhere.
 
Personal care is our basic defense.
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sweetpea, or anyone for that matter, Hotels and motels are disturbingly filthy.  The best ones don't clean that bedspread until many uses.  The carpets hold many forms of wondrous little creatures.  There is a device called a Woods Lamp, but all it is is basically a black light.  You can get a black light for 8 or 10 bucks.  Close the drapes and fire up the lamp.  Hold it close to what you want to inspect and you will see dots and spots that usually look white.  These spots are dried human bodily fluids.  We seldom stay in hotels, but if we do the first thing I do is toss the bedspread and order another blanket.  I realize this is a might disgusting, but I think you should all be aware of this.  And don't forget to light up that carpet.  You will probably wear your shoes until bedtime!
 
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RE: all the restaurant tips...they only apply if you are actually inside the location...what about drive thrus?

Couple days back I ate at a fast food joint...drive thru. Got home, ate my burger, felt fine. Within about six hours of eating i had pretty sever cramps, and a lot of burping (with a definite rotten egg smell to said burps). Sat on the throne several times, then took a generic AD pill. Felt better, decided to take a nap.
 
Awoke a few hours later, tried to get some food in me. Something bland. like malt-o-meal (used white rice instead). Felt fine. Took nap. Woke up a couple hours later, painfully severe cramps. Rushed to throne. Lots of gas, but no movements. Cramps subsided. Figured that's all it was.
 
Got about five feet away from throne room when I felt it coming up the other way. After a rather bad re-visit with the rice, i felt a lot better.
 
Not sure what I had, but i'm good now. So, while your tips work great when your inside the place, what about late-night drive thrus when you can't walk in cause the sit-down area is closed?
 
BTW: If i got a little too descriptive, I apologize...I am trying to be a writer, after all. Wink
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Westy ... one of the nighttime programs like 60 minutes or Primetime did a show on how dirty public places were, and motel rooms were among one of the worst!  What they found ... yuck, still gives me the shivers!  I'm not going  to gross myself out anymore just to "look" at what's there with those black-light things
It's just too bad that some have use these motels as we travel.  I would prefer to camp out if the weather permitted, but still would have to deal with the KOA showers and such!  Makes you "wish" you had one of those big fancy travel-trailers!!
I've been thinking about handshaking as well ... in my culture, shaking hands is a part of the greeting - but the briefest touch.  Anyone that grabs your hand and heartily shakes it, its just kinda shocking ... but then, that's how western culture is!   ... maybe we ought ta bring gloves back into fashion again!!
"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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therese,
 
hi, i am a registered respiratory therapist. i am obssesive compulsive about washing my hands. i hardly ever get sick. this probably helps.
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Last week I went on a residential course. I wore hand sanitiser on the train going up north. Then stayed in an apparently very clean hotel.  But I got an awful tummy bug.  I was ill all day until several hours after 2 anti-D pills started to work, and not great for a while after that.  Don't know if I ate something or touched something.  I always wash my hands often especially in public places, but it obviously wasn't enough.
 
While I was suffering, keeping in the lobby withing running distance of the Ladies' Room, I watched an employee painstakingly washing the leaves of a large palm plant, one at a time.  His time might have been better spent washing the door handles in the "Ladies", especially the ones you couldn't avoid touching to get out after you had washed your hands, when perhaps other people hadn't!
 
I think its almost impossible not to catch something if its there waiting, unless you practically wash the skin off your hands or become Howard Hughes type obsessive.
 
In a pandemic there is NO way I would consider relying on hand sanitiser, gloves, chlorox wipes, masks etc etc.  These things are all very well if you are dealing with  tummy bugs that, however unpleasant, rarely have the potential to kill you or your loved ones.  Or as a better than nothing measure if you have no option but to be in a hospital.
 
Quarantine is the only answer, - I'll stay indoors for the duration. Then accept whatever "normal" germs are in your household - the body is resistant to these.
Beth
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was in the atlanta airport totay as a worker was putting sandwichs on the shelf. he did a full wet sneeze all over the food and didn't even try to turn his head or cover his mouth!
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that's disgusting ... have to remind my DD and her fiance to not indulge in any of the food courts during the holidays / they will be traveling thru Atlanta
"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Hotel rooms are particularly disgusting, The average bed cover has several different semen deposits, fecal matter and often vomit residue on it. They are rarely washed. Avoid them wherever possible.
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westy,
 
a black light will make infection shine. i dont know how it does. i know it does.
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Mach,

You do realize don't you, that if you refuse to eat in restaurants with dirty bathrooms or empty soap dispensers, that you risk the possibility of starvation.
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Thanks Fictionwriter, I learned a lot more about your bowel habits than I really cared to - 'scuse me now, I'm feelin a little queasy.
    
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Message passed on to me from

Donna Lazorik, RN, MS, Adult Immunization Coordinator,  Massachusetts Department of Public Health

Please check out the 5-minute video below.

Why Don’t We Do It In Our Sleeves? http://www.mass.gov/dph/cdc/epii/flu/flupublic.htm

This video was designed to encourage people to cough and sneeze according to the infection control guidelines put forth by the Center for Disease Control. It is aimed at the common citizen. Its message is serious, but it is presented with humor in such a way that it engages the viewer's attention for a full five minutes while the message is repeated in interesting new ways. It can be enjoyed by individuals, but it is even more fun to watch in groups, resulting in community reinforcement. It has been used in hospitals and schools with great success. It actually makes people change the way they cough and sneeze.

Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
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lets all live in bubbles!!!
ONE FOR ALL
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retiredcopper ,
 
I know people that avoid eating in restaurants. People who fix appliances and similiar work in restaurants tend not to like the idea of eating out because they get to see the rat and mice droppings behind that soda machine that you get your Coca Cola from. Many of the ice dispensers at restaurants are filled by taking a bucket load out of the ice machine and dumping it in the dispenser. So, if you look in the back of a restaurant and there is a bucket sitting on the ground next to it you might as well be getting your ice off the ground. I am surprised I eat in restaurants knowing what I do. Dirty Bathroom--I am not eating there and I will starve.
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Anyone who travels extensively will confirm that "germs" are both racially and culturally prejudiced; they cannot be avoided but our bodies do seem to cope quite well with the ones we are familiar with. How else could we get through a single working day? We, and our partners, spend our lives swimming in a germ soup. Our favourite leisure activity is to exchange whatever germs we have collected. The slightest scratch from a rose thorn can and actually does occasionally kill. We get regular doses of the once deadly H1N1 flu virus and even now it does sometimes kill one of us.

It may be reassuring to see a glistening kitchen but sometimes I think we are being a little too precious with ourselves. Personally I'd be more worried about the chemicals on the fruit and vegetables than the "germs" that are in the kitchen.



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7laws,

I don't really blame you for avoiding the places with the dirty bathrooms, because it's cleanliness or lack of, is probably a fair reflection of the rest of the establishment - the thought of eating in a place with a dirty bathromm or kitchen gives me the creeps too.

But I'm not sure we'd want to avoid all germs, even if we could manage to isolate ourselves in a kind of bubble. Lack of exposure from the simplest germ could eventually be deadly if you haven't any immunities from it.

Look at some of the diseases like measles, chicken pox, typhus, typhoid fever, dysentery, scarlet fever and diptheria brought into this country by Europeans in the 1800's. While very serious to the white man who contracted those diseases, most had some kind of immunities that allowed them to survive when they contracted them.

However to the American Indian, those diseases were devastating because they had no immunities what so ever - they died by the thousands. In all liklihood they probably suffered the first major pandemic on this continent - kind of what I fear is coming with the bird flu.

So when I go into restaurants, I try not to look so closely at it's cleanliness and I don't use those soaps advertised to kill germs. While I don't wish to get sick, I do however expect to get sick on ocassion from people sneezing on me and from the things I touch. I can survive ocassional flus and colds, but what I know I can't survive is something in which I have no immunities at all from.
    
    
    
    
    
    
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Some people don't have many options as far as cleaning and bathrooms. Often in my rural community, the elderly and disabled are not able to cook welll or not even at all.  The only meal that some of them get is a meals on wheels or at a nutirion site.  Our concern is for those who can't cook for themselves. My girlfriend would really be in a pinch if I was not there to help her out. In my area. which is senior housing, a flu pandemic would be a holocaust. We have a very large elderly living center right next door.
 
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Yesterday was my kid's Christmas program at their elementary school.  The students stood directly in front of all the parents and visitors to sing their carols.  There was one kid who was in the front row DIRECTLY in front of all the adults/visitors.  He couldn't stop coughing and sneezing right in everyones path.  YUCK.Dead  I went and stood in the hallway to get away.....
 
I hate this germ-filled time of year!!!!!!!!Dead
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retiredcopper,
 
 
It is more of a gross or disgusting thing for me. I have had many colds, chicken pox and flu bugs. They are no fun but not that big of a deal. But food borne illness such as ecoli--no thanks.
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7laws,

Tell me about it...............I think me and a friend suffered from an e-coli thing back in the early 70's after eating some burgers in a restaurant. It wasn't called e-coli back then, it was just said we got some bad meat. We were both sicker than dogs and believe it or not, about 2 months later we were back eating in that same restaurant.

This restaurant was not a dump and it was reasonably clean as restaurants go. But as someone once told me, it was that restaurants turn in the tank and I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those things just happen, even to the best of restaurants and even in peoples homes I imagine.

Will the latest e-coli scare at Taco Bell, where it's suspected the contamination came from lettuce, scare you off permanantly from eating there? It won't me.
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retiredcopper,
 
I would like to say it would scare me off from eating there because I have got sick from eating there several times. I get sick, swear the chain of restaurants off and in a couple months I seem to think oh it wasn't that bad or the chance of it happening again are slim. Then I go back. Taco Bell may be horrible for you but it sure tastes good. Remember the Jack In The Box fiasco? My friends and I said for years that they would have the cleanest, safest fast food around after they had ecoli just about put them out of business.
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retiredcopper,
 
I had Taco Time for dinner from the drive thru so I didn't get to check the bathroom.  Confused  Hope they don't buy their lettuce from the same place as Taco Bell.
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In a public bathroom, you could also use a paper towel or your alcohol wipes to turn off the faucet after you have washed your hands and to also open the door to leave. Even at home, we wash the faucet handle with our disinfectant soap after turning on the water before we wash our hands, and it doesn't hurt to do the doorknob either. (If I sound paranoid, that's okay. I'm a little bit better informed now about germs, viruses, and bacteria than I was before I heard of H5N1Thumbs Up)

Also, the last time I tried to eat out was at a well known fried chicken establishment about 5 months ago. One of the young men who worked in the cooking area came out to the hallway to talk to friends, coughed loudly several times, and went back to the cooking area without washing his hands. Dead I left instead of ordering.
If ignorance is bliss, what is chocolate?
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2006 at 12:33pm
Judy,

The last time you tried to eat out in a restaurant was 5 months ago and you left because of a cough? That must really put a crimp in your social life.

But what do you do in other public places? Lets face it, if you go out to the movies, the mall or even out to play putt putt golf, people are always going to be sneezing, coughing and touching things without washing their hands. Have you totally isolated yourself? What do you do if a member of your own family coughs, sneezes or comes down with a plain old cold?

If you let the thought of lifes simple everyday germs affect your life, then my guess is that you'll end up not having much of a life.
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