Here is the thread people asked for please post food problems here.

I'm currently following reports of a global wheat shortage. We're certainly running low on flour here in NZ as the majority of the flour we eat comes from Australia. I think this is something to watch.

the key ro food shortages is going to be southern Africa and corn . if they have  a good crop, wheat and corn surpluses can be used in feed crops.  If there is a famine in southern africa, all bets are off.   

While everyone is seeing limitations on things like milk at the stores, there technically is no shortage.  The problem is that people are not eating in restaurants anymore.  A lot of our food is prepared for commercial use, not to be sold in grocery stores. 

 Think about how many people routinely eat in restaurants, who are now eating at home.  Dairy farmers across the US are actually having to dump milk because of distribution problems.  Children at schools are no longer getting the little cartons of milk for breakfast and lunch.  Trendy coffee houses no longer use the cream from their farm to table business models.  The little butter bubble packs used in restaurants are not packaged for sale at the grocery store.  

Since distributors were unprepared for the shift, they have not yet worked out how to get these products into stores.  Thus, a lot of food is going to waste.

ME163 wrote: the key ro food shortages is going to be southern Africa and corn . if they have  a good crop, wheat and corn surpluses can be used in feed crops.  If there is a famine in southern africa, all bets are off.

Top 3 corn producers in the world are USA, China, and Brazil.    Right now 2019 was 'the year of no harvest' in large tracts of the USA (you can watch farmers finishing harvesting last years crop this spring on youTube), Brazil had a terrible year.  My feed prices went up 30-40% (depending on product) last fall as so many crops failed in so many states, provinces and other countries we import from.  We know that 'all bets are off' as to what's happening in China and if they are warning their citizens to have 3-6 months of rice, flour etc in their homes … 

I wouldn't count on much of anything coming out of Africa (East) due to the locusts... horrifying to my 'farming' eyes...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4KEUoeZ0fU

Flubergasted - Personally, I'm concerned about both the short term food shortages being caused by SARS2, but even more so about the long term shortages; 

a) how major disruptions to supply chain like warehouses full of eggs being garbaged because they can't get cartons to pack them into to ship/sell in UK - this is a shorter (hopefully) term problem but is a good example of just how delicate our system is... https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2020/03/26/liebigs-law-writ-large/

b) as countries try to protect their own people and nationalism kicks in hard - more and more countries will limit or stop exports. One example (there are dozens!) China grows 40% of worlds rice, they are now withholding for own use, not to mention the tons/tonnes they import from other countries (including US!).

c) Meat is under 'attack' between animal activists, African Swine Flu (took out 2/3 of pigs in China last year - over 1/3 of ENTIRE worlds pigs died in 2019!), all major US meat plants are being bought out by China and products will go to them first, shipping issues for animal feed are causing problems in many places, lack of availability/rising feed costs, droughts/flooding/fires... the list is never ending and I face it in various ways day to day here on farm so realize how real it is.

d) labour issues - right now Canada & the USA are both suffering huge labour issues for farming... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canada-to-allow-seasonal-foreign-workers-but-they-must-self-isolate-minister-says/ar-BB12caLZ?ocid=spartanntp&fbclid=IwAR2hK6LbriR6JRFVLaXYr_pkQeRf7PejllYgZaHKdVmAg8f24ZK3PKziPEY  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-farmworkers-idUSKBN21O179?fbclid=IwAR2QxeM4qKfrvCvh3a6UzfuWfslp2CFm_4ns7zYVtTD_z7UVjFyR1mVPfkY

These are just a few of the issues we are facing - they are all covered much better by the 

Ice Age Farmer channel 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2nUB_TFL0U&t=501s

and Yanasa Ama Ventures

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL8WQozfOE

Everyone - please just watch with an open mind - we are potentially facing a much larger issue then Covid-19

hello flumom

I have a question you had posted you had dried eggs that were 12 years old and they were not good. I have a can about the same age I think 13 years.  How do I know if they are good Same with the can dry  milk? Can I look at them and know or is this based on the age of the cans?

For any long term storage foods how do we know if they are still safe to eat?

Thanks so much for any info

New York  (CNN Business)Across the country, major meat processors are starting to shut down plants as employees are getting infected by coronavirus.  

Tyson (TSN), one of the world's largest meat processors, suspended operations at its Columbus Junction, Iowa, pork plant this week after more than two dozen workers contracted Covid-19 there. Tyson said it would divert livestock that was headed to Columbus Junction to other pork plants in the region to minimize the impact on its production.

JBS USA, another major meat processor, has stopped operations at its beef plant in Souderton, Pennsylvania with plans to reopen April 16, after two weeks. The company decided to close the facility after several members of the plant's management team stopped going to work because they were experiencing flu-like symptoms, a company representative explained, adding that all other JBS USA's plants are still open. Cargill has also paused operations at its protein plant in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, where 900 people typically work

"This will allow us to minimize the impact of COVID-19  and continue [to] follow health department guidelines," said Jon Nash, North America lead for Cargill Protein, in a statement to CNN Business. 

Consumers are unlikely to see any shortages because of production disturbances. But the closures are devastating for some meat producers, which have remained open during the pandemic. Food suppliers are essential businesses.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/business/meat-plant-closures-coronavirus/index.html

I am doing my first grocery pick up tomorrow. Where you order and pay online and pick up at the store. They bring it out to your vehicle you don't have to get out. We are taking the truck so we will just have them put in the back. I really wanted to test it out and there was a few things I was wanting since this looks like it's going to last awhile. Anyway they still had no toilet paper.  I keep checking with Amazon and they have no toilet paper. Not that I need it yet,  I'm just kind of checking things out for when I do need it.

Hopefully, only essential workers are working here, almost everything is closed. Yes, most people are at home. 

I am essential so working.  Hope all are well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/dining/victory-gardens-coronavirus.html?fbclid=IwAR3g01MtxjqsW463-MamxFbVi6IURIAMvGThUTBjWydmDL0VfUsWi-wmTBE

FluMom wrote: I hope to have a good garden this year!!  Have to get through the cold weather in the next week.  I am growing as much as I can.

We are having a colder then usual spring here - still tons of snow around, snow (was I haven't looked in last week+) forecast for end of month!  Usually Mothers Day weekend here is the 'all out' greenhouse frenzy and get everything into ground - worst danger of hard frosts is past and ground warm enough.  Since moving back closer to family, it's become tradition to take mom around to different greenhouses on Moms day... not looking good to be able to do that this May - she's 84 and we won't take the chance.  One of the few days I really look forward to in a year - a day away from chores with time with mom, all the lovely new plants and flowers - she had a greenhouse for years when I was a kid so is a wealth of knowledge, I love learning about the plants...  missing that day will probably be 'the worst' day of the 'no travel stuff' for me.

Anyway - thinking mid May plant out here?  So needless to say - short season veggies (and hopefully get the flowers in for pollinators I'd planned on) mostly concentrating on 'food' this year, not many pretties lol.  Trying to figure out a hoop house right now so I can get a better head start...

It's important to understand that when meat processors shut down, the farms that supply them get severely bottle necked, both in feed, bills, and inventory replacement (bringing in new piglets) for the next batch.

aside from the financial issues, one must understand the feed supply to keep the animals that cant go to market gets stretched as well, those animals cannot sit in pens indefinably.

EdwinSm, wrote: I think we are seeing with the pork issue one of the problems of such a large scale concentration in any industry.  It is fine while it works and it is cheaper (which customers want), but if something goes wrong (as it has with the coronavirus) then there are big problems. In the years ahead, as consumers, we need to ask if we want the same sort of cheapness of goods we buy, or are we willing to pay some more to have a more diverse but secure food supply chain.

I saw a post on FB asking "if there was one thing you wanted to come out of this pandemic - what would it be?", some said closer families, revivals, learning how to balance work/life etc.  I know what my first one would be but this ^^^^ would be #2!!! 

IF people could only understand how bad intensive farming is...for the planet, for the animals, for us - maybe a cheaper piece of meat wouldn't be so important!   I've seen what happens when 'something' goes wrong and it is horrific for the animals...a broiler barn with the fans stopped for a few hours - thousands upon thousands dead... this is NOT cool with me.  

I am a farmer!

I believe (have since being a little kid) that the farmers are the 'keepers of the land' and of Gods beautiful creations of birds & animals.  

I do not feel corporations are farmers - they are financial managers/asset managers - everything is about the bottom line.  

My farm will never make huge dollars - but I will die knowing that I left the soil on my property better then I found it and that my stock had good lives, dust bathing/sleeping in the sun, mud to puddle and wallow in, injuries or illnesses followed by appropriate treatment and well loved... I can die knowing 'I did good' - poor financially, but rich in so many other ways.

JMO - This planets humans have some VERY hard times coming their way, not sure that 'bigger brains and opposable thumbs' will save as many as we like to think...and I personally have no interest in surviving on cockroach milk!

We will have some food shortages...just going to happen!

Island states and nations could get bad fast.  They have to get most of their food shipped in.  When in Hawaii I though no way would I live on an island depending on ships to bring in supplies and food!!!

Just an update:

Central Florida here and I have not been able to get frozen or fresh beef or chicken for 2 weeks now...always sold out.....and that's with a 2 lb limit.

Local slaughter house where i bring my pig/ steers to has a retail store and is selling ground beef 80/20 for $8.90 a pound....(says its organic)...with no "regular" beef available.

The only meat (besides the little canned meat that's available) is processed breaded stuff.....like chicken patties, tenders etc:

The longer this goes on, the worse the food situation is going to get. There are 1000s of things which haven't been thought of in the supply chains we have counted on forever. This forum isn't being used at anywhere close to its potential. When REAL shortages or outages in grocery stores hit, so will fierce social unrest. 

I'd like to encourage those of us here to double down on information. If you come across reliable information RE: food, PLEASE post here. The more we know, the better we can get ahead of it.  

Five ways coronavirus is disrupting the food industry
1. Milk down the drain
This issue is not only being seen in the US, with dairy farmers in the UK asking for government help because of their own surplus problems. Peter Alvis, chair of the Royal Association of British Dairy Farmers, says about five million litres per week are at risk.

2. Crops go to waste
The New York Times, which interviewed some US producers, cited an example of one chicken processor having to smash 750,000 unhatched eggs every single week. They also spoke to an onion farmer who was having to let most of his harvest decompose, unable to re-distribute his onions in high enough quanities and without the facilities to store them.

3. Not enough workers
There has also been a 'Feed the Nation' campaign launched in the UK to encourage domestic workers to plug any labor gaps to avoid food waste.

4. Changing our shopping habits
The pandemic has led to some changes in what we are trying to buy. For example, the UK has seen demand for flour soar in recent weeks as people stuck at home increasingly turn to home-baking.

According to new data, cited by BFMTV, French shoppers have increasingly been buying more organic food since coronavirus fears took hold of the country.

5. Stock is sitting unused
Take UK pub closures for example. Much of the industry's current supply of lager and ale could now go to waste under government rules which mean they could be closed for the foreseeable future.

Some beers have a best-before date of just weeks - which means thousands of unused barrels in pub basements could be undrinkable by the time the lockdown is lifted.
'Up to 50m pints' going to waste in empty pubs

..But it's not bad news for everyone
Some parts of the food industry are benefiting from our changing consumption habits.

US sales of orange juice, which had been on a gradual decline, are said to be up 38% on last year's figures.

The so-called "futures" price of orange juice has soared in recent weeks. "The Covid-19 outbreaks are hitting both the supply and demand for orange juice," Stephen Innes, chief global market strategist at broker AxiCorp said last month.

"The immune-boosting properties are the demand-side attraction while there are simply not enough tanker spaces, with airlines not flying, to bring the product to markets."

The demand is good news for orange growers, especially in Florida and Brazil - who supply big brands like Tropicana,

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bibeau-says-canada-has-enough-food-but-covid-19-will-still-cause-challenges/ar-BB12FIxC?ocid=spartandhp

Canadians can expect less variety and higher prices (I think this is a huge understatement myself!)...

Don't laugh FluMom, but soapy water is best.  You can rince them afterwards, if you can still smell/taste the soap then rince in vinegar.

The chemistry is a bit complex, but here goes:

Soap is a funny molecule.  It has a hydrophillic end and a hydrophobic end.  That means one end of a soap molecule sticks to fat and the other stricks to water - letting it disolve and taking the fat with it.

                               fat]=soap=[water                        all sticking together.

This virus is a single strand of DNA inside a 'lipid' envelope , basically a bubble of fat with the working bit inside.  The soap molecule literally rips it appart!  Without the fat layer (which holds the protein binding spikes the virus uses to invade cells) the virus is powerless.

Common or garden soap is its kryptonite.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/pandemic-could-affect-food-supplies-power-grids-telecommunications-says-government-document/ar-BB12FVrt?ocid=spartandhp

Ok, MSM seems to be waking up to what a 'worst case scenario' might look like, earlier today was the article on potential food shortages - this one warns about that, but also power grid, banking, & telecommunications failures... My tin-hat side wonders - is this pre-programing or warning for what's being planned?

At this point in time 2 million have tested positive (of 7.8 billion) so if my calculator figured it out right 0.000256 of the worlds population... (it doesn't like that many zeros!!!!) 

Here in Canada we broke the '1000 dead' marker today.  Yesterday I'd played with numbers as PM's public address said over 430,000 tests done - 26, 897 confirmed or assumptive - so 0.06255% of those tested.   Total deaths yest was 898 so, it's 0.03338 of positive cases and from gross population of Canada (36million) it's 0.0000249%  Annual flu is 0.01???  Will have to hold tight and see what numbers show in a month or so when deaths start to catch up - ie. lag is gone.  But as the numbers stand now... there is no way this type of response is warranted, like I said - will see how much more appropriate they seem a month from now.     

Either way - us humans are in for a rough ride for a long time.