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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

53.8% health care workers willing to work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 6:46pm
Combining facilities is smart.  I see what you mean now.  Thumbs Up
So, do you think hotels will be the next choice (over schools and gyms)  if all the medical type facilities fill up?  I just keep thinking of the sanitation problems they had in the Super Dome after Katrina ... even without a disease infecting everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 7:25pm
janeten,
Are you saying use nursing holmes and let their families take care of them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 7:59pm
I don't think there are enough nursing home beds, unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 8:54pm
Regarding this comment; "Let me assure you that there will be a medical draft!"
 
I had recently considered changing careers to get into health care since my job, once again, has been outsourced to India.  However, considering BF and the possible medical draft I think I will consider other options. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frisky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 9:41pm
      In my case I work in an adult hospital volume 250 per day. There is a pediatric hospital 250 patients per day across the street one way and a high school the other way. We plan to use the high school for housing entire families where they are all sick. A common cause of mortality during the 1918 pandemic was failure to care for basic needs such as hydration because no one was available. Oral rehydraton therapy techniques developed for third world patient care can save many lives and in this case those patients who become critically ill can be transferred over to the main hospitals. The whole idea of using the high school is to break the patient population into manageable packets. Many detaills need to be addressed such as bedding, but the simple answer is to have the patients bring their own sheets, pillows and blankets.  The box is expanding.  ER Doc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frisky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 10:20pm
   Regarding nursing homes I feel they have little capacity to help with flu patients. They have their own staffing issues. In the hospital preparations section of this web site I listed 6 reasons I feel nursing home patients should not be allowed to be sent to the ER. I discussed this issue with the local public health director who stated during a major flu pandemic he would probably mandate that nursing home patients could not be sent to the ER. Many of the most complicated and difficult patients I deal with on a daily basis are nursing home patients.  The size of the box we need to build just got a lot smaller.   ER Doc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frisky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 10:28pm
   Regarding useing hotels for housing flu patients I think in some circumstances it is a very good idea. I had not considered it. Several of the 10 major hospitals in the county have hotels in close enough proximity to consider for overflow useage. During a major pandemic they will be empty anyway.  The box is getting bigger.     ER Doc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 10:35pm
 frisky that is unrealistic, have you ever been  to a nursing home? we are very limited in what we can do  in a crisis, that why we send them to you, you have all the neat toys, we still take a blood pressure with a real bp cuff,   roxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frisky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 11:02pm
    roxy, we will not have any neat toys for your patients. They will be the absolute last priority in the ER. Read my articles in the hospital preparatons section. You can better care for them at the nursing home than I can in the ER in the event of a pandemic .   ER Doc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 10:21am
 frisky, we still have to honor a full code, there better be  a higher up than you or me telling the families no I can't send you love one to the hospital. believe me in my area , they'll take the patient  themselves, with a large group  of very angry armed people, to the hospital,  nursing homes are owned by a corporations around here, they aren't going to except flu  patients without alot of government payback. plus we have a duty to protect the residents that live there, bringing this flu is not protecting them.the staff will run for the hills. and it won't work, no staff, no care.  i might add the only high tech gadget i have is a pulse ox. accu check, and can do Iv"s if the meds and machine is delivered from the pharmacy, no 02 in a wall here , done by consentrator { 3 extra}, and a few 02  tanks in house. now tell me how ,we are going to care for these really sick people, except to watch them die.i guess it will be a hospice, i get to change the linen, maybe not if laundry  personal doesn't show up.  the state mandates a 3 day plan  for a crisis, food,water,ect, what happens,when there is no fuel for the generator .    i don't believe this will happen , unless the money rolls in. there will have to be police at the front door to protect the patients and staff. the people in the neighbor hood will bring us their sick, if unable to go to the hospital  i know you are trying to be realistic about this, but so am I.   roxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 11:20am

roxy,

I know I am butting in,  but it was NOT frisky who suggested nursing holmes--he is against the idea.

It was janetn who suggested it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janetn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 5:38pm

roxy They are not going to get anything in the hospital or off site centers either. All the bells and whistles will be gone.  we are looking at triage only a few will get any care at all Limited resources can only go so far.

They are takling about off site centers anyway, this is what will happen. Hospitals cant handle the surge. Now if your pts were transfered to another NH in the area. and your building freed up for flu pts it would be far easier to set up than putting flu victims in High schools. They have 0 infrastructure. They wouldnt even have call bells, or any concentrators.

As for the staff hitting the road its gonna happen anyway. You wont be able to keep the flu out of the NH anyway. The seasonal flu  spreads though NH like wildfire. Unfortunatly your not gonna be able to transfer out BF pts. The hospital wont take them. They cant spare the resources for a 80 yr old  with multiple health issues. Its just b not gonna happen your gonna be on your own with the BF spreading through your facility just as the seasonal flu does. the staff is gonna panic, I dont see many aides sticking  around for the pay they get.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mary J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 6:13pm
Weeellll...I'm not sure how I'll react to real situations, but as a Home Health Nurse, and having my own very small private duty nursing business, I expect to be busy helping wherever I can.
 
I agree with ER DOC, (BTW-many thanks for sharing your excellent ideas and strategies!)
Using the telephone to track patient's conditions and teaching families how to provide basic care at home is the most effective & realistic way to respond to big numbers.
 
So far-no news from my hospital about BF planning. We are having JCAHO next month, so hopefully we'll begin after that.
 
My plan is to prepare enough for friends and family-then be available for/caregiver training & support- I'll offer telephone monitoring services when public planning is more well known and out in the open.
 
BUT-if mass casualties are high...and the lethality is still >50%...I may find myself on a slow boat off shore for a while!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janetn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 5:41am
Originally posted by Mary J Mary J wrote:

Weeellll...I'm not sure how I'll react to real situations, but as a Home Health Nurse, and having my own very small private duty nursing business, I expect to be busy helping wherever I can.
 
I agree with ER DOC, (BTW-many thanks for sharing your excellent ideas and strategies!)
Using the telephone to track patient's conditions and teaching families how to provide basic care at home is the most effective & realistic way to respond to big numbers.
 
So far-no news from my hospital about BF planning. We are having JCAHO next month, so hopefully we'll begin after that.
 
My plan is to prepare enough for friends and family-then be available for/caregiver training & support- I'll offer telephone monitoring services when public planning is more well known and out in the open.
 
BUT-if mass casualties are high...and the lethality is still >50%...I may find myself on a slow boat off shore for a while!
 
Mary J Have you heard anything from the government? I find it hard to believe that they havent even begun to contact  HHA . Putting HHA into the loop in the planning stages so that there role is defined  now seems to be one of the first steps that should be taken. I work for a HHA they dont have a clue. The head of the division didnt even know what a N95 mask was. All ive gotten is that a plan is being worked on by one nurse. We are a big agency too
 
Friend of mine works for the agency who does the yearly flu vaccines - they havent even heard much, other than they will be the ones to give out the AF vaccine. Of course I live in a state that is way behind the curve. Hope your in a better state
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mary J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 6:14am
Janetn,
 
I have not heard from anyone except our local mayor who told my husband they have been directed "to plan", and it's "when not if" for the pandemic flu.
 
"The Green States" report explains it for me tho, becuase I'm in Alabama and we're dead last in preparations for any biological disaster.
sigh.
 
I think we are going to have to take the initiative to educate our local leaders, and hold them accountable for developing a realistic plan.
I'm not a civil activist, but if I don't accept responsibility for helping educate and lead the efforts to prepare, then I'm just a victim of everyone's else's ignorance and bad decisions.
 
As a nurse, it's better for me to plan my part in this now, than wait for everyone else (incompetent or not) to plan for me!
 
I'm going to collect the best articles and info to date and send it to my local city government with a list of specific questions regarding our "strategic plan".
 
Since I'm linked to our local hospital, and know that their status as a for profit corporate- owned rural hospital rules their priorities, I'm not sure that I believe they're focused on this now.
 
Anyway-wherever you are, first prepare yourself, then branch out to your nieghbors, then your town, and finally your county.
 
If you do it now-you lessen the potential impact of their cascading failures on YOUR personal circumstances.
 
As an aside- we (along with about 13 other states) HAVE passed a state law making it okay to  "shoot first" for self protection ....
maybe this is  their best plan to date?!
I wonder if this is a reflection of what the state governments really think about the "pandemic flu" potential to disrupt civil services?!
Mary J
 
 
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