Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Combining facilities is smart. I see what you mean now.
So, do you think hotels will be the next choice (over schools and gyms) if all the medical type facilities fill up? I just keep thinking of the sanitation problems they had in the Super Dome after Katrina ... even without a disease infecting everyone.
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janeten,
Are you saying use nursing holmes and let their families take care of them?
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I don't think there are enough nursing home beds, unfortunately.
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Regarding this comment; "Let me assure you that there will be a medical draft!"
I had recently considered changing careers to get into health care since my job, once again, has been outsourced to India. However, considering BF and the possible medical draft I think I will consider other options.
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Frisky
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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In my case I work in an adult hospital volume 250 per day. There is a pediatric hospital 250 patients per day across the street one way and a high school the other way. We plan to use the high school for housing entire families where they are all sick. A common cause of mortality during the 1918 pandemic was failure to care for basic needs such as hydration because no one was available. Oral rehydraton therapy techniques developed for third world patient care can save many lives and in this case those patients who become critically ill can be transferred over to the main hospitals. The whole idea of using the high school is to break the patient population into manageable packets. Many detaills need to be addressed such as bedding, but the simple answer is to have the patients bring their own sheets, pillows and blankets. The box is expanding. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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Frisky
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Regarding nursing homes I feel they have little capacity to help with flu patients. They have their own staffing issues. In the hospital preparations section of this web site I listed 6 reasons I feel nursing home patients should not be allowed to be sent to the ER. I discussed this issue with the local public health director who stated during a major flu pandemic he would probably mandate that nursing home patients could not be sent to the ER. Many of the most complicated and difficult patients I deal with on a daily basis are nursing home patients. The size of the box we need to build just got a lot smaller. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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Frisky
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Regarding useing hotels for housing flu patients I think in some circumstances it is a very good idea. I had not considered it. Several of the 10 major hospitals in the county have hotels in close enough proximity to consider for overflow useage. During a major pandemic they will be empty anyway. The box is getting bigger. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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roxy
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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frisky that is unrealistic, have you ever been to a nursing home? we are very limited in what we can do in a crisis, that why we send them to you, you have all the neat toys, we still take a blood pressure with a real bp cuff, roxy
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Frisky
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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roxy, we will not have any neat toys for your patients. They will be the absolute last priority in the ER. Read my articles in the hospital preparatons section. You can better care for them at the nursing home than I can in the ER in the event of a pandemic . ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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roxy
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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frisky, we still have to honor a full code, there better be a higher up than you or me telling the families no I can't send you love one to the hospital. believe me in my area , they'll take the patient themselves, with a large group of very angry armed people, to the hospital, nursing homes are owned by a corporations around here, they aren't going to except flu patients without alot of government payback. plus we have a duty to protect the residents that live there, bringing this flu is not protecting them.the staff will run for the hills. and it won't work, no staff, no care. i might add the only high tech gadget i have is a pulse ox. accu check, and can do Iv"s if the meds and machine is delivered from the pharmacy, no 02 in a wall here , done by consentrator { 3 extra}, and a few 02 tanks in house. now tell me how ,we are going to care for these really sick people, except to watch them die.i guess it will be a hospice, i get to change the linen, maybe not if laundry personal doesn't show up. the state mandates a 3 day plan for a crisis, food,water,ect, what happens,when there is no fuel for the generator . i don't believe this will happen , unless the money rolls in. there will have to be police at the front door to protect the patients and staff. the people in the neighbor hood will bring us their sick, if unable to go to the hospital i know you are trying to be realistic about this, but so am I. roxy
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roxy, I know I am butting in, but it was NOT frisky who suggested nursing holmes--he is against the idea.
It was janetn who suggested it. |
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janetn
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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roxy They are not going to get anything in the hospital or off site centers either. All the bells and whistles will be gone. we are looking at triage only a few will get any care at all Limited resources can only go so far. They are takling about off site centers anyway, this is what will happen. Hospitals cant handle the surge. Now if your pts were transfered to another NH in the area. and your building freed up for flu pts it would be far easier to set up than putting flu victims in High schools. They have 0 infrastructure. They wouldnt even have call bells, or any concentrators. As for the staff hitting the road its gonna happen anyway. You wont be able to keep the flu out of the NH anyway. The seasonal flu spreads though NH like wildfire. Unfortunatly your not gonna be able to transfer out BF pts. The hospital wont take them. They cant spare the resources for a 80 yr old with multiple health issues. Its just b not gonna happen your gonna be on your own with the BF spreading through your facility just as the seasonal flu does. the staff is gonna panic, I dont see many aides sticking around for the pay they get.
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Mary J
Experienced Member Joined: June 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Weeellll...I'm not sure how I'll react to real situations, but as a Home Health Nurse, and having my own very small private duty nursing business, I expect to be busy helping wherever I can.
So far-no news from my hospital about BF planning. We are having JCAHO next month, so hopefully we'll begin after that.
My plan is to prepare enough for friends and family-then be available for/caregiver training & support- I'll offer telephone monitoring services when public planning is more well known and out in the open.
BUT-if mass casualties are high...and the lethality is still >50%...I may find myself on a slow boat off shore for a while!
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janetn
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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Mary J Have you heard anything from the government? I find it hard to believe that they havent even begun to contact HHA . Putting HHA into the loop in the planning stages so that there role is defined now seems to be one of the first steps that should be taken. I work for a HHA they dont have a clue. The head of the division didnt even know what a N95 mask was. All ive gotten is that a plan is being worked on by one nurse. We are a big agency too
Friend of mine works for the agency who does the yearly flu vaccines - they havent even heard much, other than they will be the ones to give out the AF vaccine. Of course I live in a state that is way behind the curve. Hope your in a better state
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Mary J
Experienced Member Joined: June 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Janetn,
I have not heard from anyone except our local mayor who told my husband they have been directed "to plan", and it's "when not if" for the pandemic flu.
"The Green States" report explains it for me tho, becuase I'm in Alabama and we're dead last in preparations for any biological disaster.
sigh.
I think we are going to have to take the initiative to educate our local leaders, and hold them accountable for developing a realistic plan.
I'm not a civil activist, but if I don't accept responsibility for helping educate and lead the efforts to prepare, then I'm just a victim of everyone's else's ignorance and bad decisions.
As a nurse, it's better for me to plan my part in this now, than wait for everyone else (incompetent or not) to plan for me!
I'm going to collect the best articles and info to date and send it to my local city government with a list of specific questions regarding our "strategic plan".
Since I'm linked to our local hospital, and know that their status as a for profit corporate- owned rural hospital rules their priorities, I'm not sure that I believe they're focused on this now.
Anyway-wherever you are, first prepare yourself, then branch out to your nieghbors, then your town, and finally your county.
If you do it now-you lessen the potential impact of their cascading failures on YOUR personal circumstances.
As an aside- we (along with about 13 other states) HAVE passed a state law making it okay to "shoot first" for self protection ....
maybe this is their best plan to date?!
I wonder if this is a reflection of what the state governments really think about the "pandemic flu" potential to disrupt civil services?!
Mary J
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