Large doses of Vitamin C kills Bird Flu

There is a quote by Abram Hoffer that I like. I can't remember it exactly, but it goes something like this: "The medical establishment demands proof of the most rigorous kind as to the benefits of vitamins. However when it comes to their toxicity it accepts the flimsiest sort of evidence."

There is no evidence of vitamin C having any serious toxicity. From a toxicological point of view, it is safer than water. As to the supposed increase in kidney stones, I will say that it is a charge against vitamin C leveled by those who are ignorant of the research. In one study that took place over 14 years involving 85,557 women, no relationship between vitamin c intake and kidney stones was found . (Curhan, G. C., Willett, W. C., Speizer, F. E., Stampfer, M. J. (1999) Megadose Vitamin C consumption does not cause kidney stones. Intake of vitamins B6 and C and the risk of kidney stones in women, J Am Soc Nephrol., Apr, 10, 4, 840-845). Another study found that a dose above 1.5 grams actually reduced the chances of kidney stone formation (Curhan G.C. Willett W.C. Rimm E.B. Stampfer M.J. (1996) A prospective study of the intake of vitamins C and B6, and the risk of kidney stones in men, J Urol, 155(6), 1847-1851). Calcium oxilate stones, which compose around 75% of all cases of kidney stones, tend to form in acidic urine. Although there is no data to support the vitamin c kidney stone connection, one may wish to take calcium ascorbate or sodium ascorbate so as not to acidify the urine.

I dont see how excess vitamen C will hurt you.  Any water soluble vitamen will just be excreted in the urine.  If I remember right, didn't Linus Pauling take huge doses of vit. C?  Something like ten thous. mg  a day.  And he lived to be over ninety years old.  Not to mention two nobel prizes.

The Physiological Effects of Garlic

Studies by competent multi-degreed scientists have shown beyond any reasonable doubt that consuming garlic generally has the following physical effects:

• Garlic lowers blood pressure a little.
• Garlic lowers LDL Cholesterol a little.
• Garlic helps reduce atherosclerotic buildup (plaque) within the arterial system. One recent study shows this effect to be greater in women than men.
• Garlic lowers or helps to regulate blood sugar.
• Garlic helps to prevent blood clots from forming, thus reducing the possibility of strokes and thromboses (It may not be good for hemophiliacs).
• Garlic helps to prevent cancer, especially of the digestive system, prevents certain tumors from growing larger and reduces the size of certain tumors.
• Garlic helps to remove heavy metals such as lead and mercury from the body.
• Raw Garlic is a potent natural antibiotic and, while far less strong than modern antibiotics, can still kill some strains of bacteria that have become immune or resistant to modern antibiotics.
• Garlic has anti-fungal and anti-viral properties.
• Garlic dramatically reduces yeast infections due to Candida species.
• Garlic has anti-oxidant properties and is a source of selenium.
• Garlic probably has other benefits as well.

Im Appalled, I talked to my doctor about vitamin c, and she said that taking large doses can cause damage if taken over a long period of time. So I just take large doses when sick and have switched to Ester C.  I wonder if there have been any studies of its use against bird flu. I don't think so.  

I meant to try it with this flu sore throat but now my throat hurts too much to chew the vitamen C Next time I will get the efferecent drink Vit C
I think i will get it tommorow

 

About 90% of kidney stones are made when oxalate binds to calcium. Oxalate does not dissolve very well in urine and therefore it plays an important part of initial stone formation when it precipitates. Vitamin C or ascorbic acid is broken down in the intestine to oxalate. Patients who have intestinal abnormalities which cause them to absorb oxalate at an increased rate are at risk of forming stones if they “overdose “ on vitamin C. Usually 2 grams ( 2000 mg) a day is considered a high dose.

Campbell’s Urology, 7 Th. edition, 1998, Volume #3, page 2673 states that eighty percent of the oxalate found in urine comes from endogenous production in the liver ( it is made in the body) 40% from ascorbic acid , 40% from glycogen ( an amino acid) and 10% come from dietary sources.

Edited by DISPENSER 4 HIR - April 16 2006 at 4:19pm

marzantar wrote: i take 3000mg of vitamin c every 3 hours at the first sign of the flu and it goes away in about 2 days, as opposed to a week or two before taking such a high dosage.

Marzantar,

I used to work with someone who ended up having her gall bladder removed. She told me that her doctor said it was because she abused the dosage of vitamin C. She used to take large dosages.. if I remember correctly 2000mg every day or twice a day...? I'm not sure. What I do know for certain is that she told me that her doctor told her that she damaged her gall bladder by taking too much Vitamin C.

Just wanted to let you know.

Also, I agree that taking the correct dosage of vitamin C everyday is a good thing. Just want to make that very clear.
    

Well, here's my testimonial for vitamin c.

Hi, I just did a quick search and I came up with this. I hope it's helpful and I hope you know that I'm really not trying to be argumentative at all. I think this topic is really interesting.

 

Vitamin C(Ascorbic Acid)
___________

"Overview:Vitamin C is an antioxidant that is required for tissue growth and repair,adrenal gland function and healthy gums.It protects against the harmful effects of pollution,prevents cancer,protects against infection,and enhances immunity.It also may reduce cholesterol levels and high blood pressure and prevent artherosclerosis.Essential in the formation of collagen ,vitamin C protects against blood clotting and bruising and promotes the healing of wounds and the production of antistress hormones.It also aids in interferon production and is needed for the metabolism of folic acid,tyrosine and phenylalanine.

New evidence indicates that vitamin C and vitamin E work synergistically i.e.,when they work together they have a greater effect than when they work separately.Vit E scavenges for dangerous oxygen radicals in the cell membrane,while vitamin C breaks the free radical chain in biological fluids.Both these vitamins greatly extend antioxidant activity.

Ester C polyascorbate is a breakthrough in vitamin C,especially those who are suffering from chronic illness such as cancer and Aids.This form of vitamin C(esterified)was first researched by Jonathan Wright.Dr.Wright proved that WBC's ascorbate levels are increased four times more with ester C than with the average vitamin C intake and only 1/3rd of the amount is excreted via.the urine.Because the body cannot manufacture vitamin C,it must be obtained thru the diet or in the form of supplements.Most vitamin C intake is lost in the urine.When larger amounts of vitamin C are required due to illness,it is more effective to take vitamin c intravenously than to take high doses orally.Ester C has naturally chelated minerals than allow for faster absorbtion.It comes in calcium,magnesium,potassium,zinc and sodium forms.

Sources: 1)Green vegetables 15)mangos 29)swiss chard 2)Berries 16)mustard greens 30)tomatoes 3)citrus fruits 17)onions 31)turnip greens 4)asparagus 18)oranges 32)watercress 5)avocados 19)papayas 6)beet greens 20)parsley 7)broccoli 21)green peas 8)brussel sproats 22)sweet peppers 9)cantaloupe 23)persimmons 10)collards 24)pineapple 11)currants 25)radishes 12)grapefruit 26)rose hips 13)kale 27)spinach 14)lemons 28)strawberries

Warnings: ________ Aspirin,alchohol,analgesics,antidepressants,anticoagulants,o ral contraceptives,and steroids may reduce levels of vitamin c in the body.Diabetic(diabinase)and sulfa drugs may not be as effective when taken with vitmain c.Large amounts may cause a false negative readingwhen testing for blood in the stool.Pregnant women should use amounts no more than 5,000 mg.daily.Infants may become dependent on this supplement and develop scurvy."

www.cbase.com/mca.html   I found the above information connected to this webpage. You have to click on "nutrition corner" and then go to Vitamin Mineral/Herb Database Summary and Click on Vitamin C.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=36536 Here is a page that makes taking Vit C look like good news for fighting  BF (esp for chicks)

Then there's www.vitamincfoundation.org and I don't know who these people are, maybe they're just trying to sell a product. But it seems like good info., I dunno.

Anyway, In my first post I was giving you the info that was given to me by several healthcare professionals but it was definitely several years ago and maybe there have been significant improvements since then on the "delivery" of the vitamin making it easier for the body to absorb. There is no mention of what kind of Vitamin C and how it should be taken in the chart you posted. The massive doses of Vitamin C was given intravenously and/or intramuscularly in the article above on the VitaminFoundation webpage. I don't really know how much can be absorbed through the intestine alone.  I'll have to look into it further when I have more time.  :>}

BTW, You should also make sure you brush your teeth after taking Vit. C in chewable or drinking form because it will take the enamel off you teeth.  Also, if you take calcium supplements take them at a different time then when taking "C" because your body cant absorb them both at the same time. Calcium is best taken with food I think. It is very hard for it to be absorbed through the intestinal wall. It just doesn't breakdown very efficiently into small enough particles. So just take your Vit.C in between meals if you take both.

Vitamins D, E, A, & K are oil soluable vitamins and must be taken with care because they are toxic if taken in high doses. The body has no way to exrete them. Vitamin C is a water soluable vitamin and any "overdosing" will just be excreted out in the urine and at most cause stomach cramping and diarrhea.   Also, the human body can only absorb 1 gram (1000 mg) of Vitamin C an hour.  So if you're taking 2,500 mg of Vitamin C at one time you are only absorbing 1000mg and the rest you are just peeing out.  It is not harmful, just a waste of money.

Literally pissing $ away.

But this seems to indicate that Milk Thistle would be a bad idea!!  You pick, I will go with bad idea.

http://medscimonit.com/pub/vol_8/no_11/2945.pdf

[snip]

BR442

Milk Thistle induced augmentation of cytokines in

MLC

Next we determined whether lymphocyte proliferation

augmentation was mediated by Th1 (IFN-. and IL-2) or

Th2 (IL-4 and IL-10) cytokines. We found that IFN-.,

IL-4 and IL-10 cytokines were increased in cultures incubated

with whole extract of milk thistle (table 1). The

IFN-., IL-4 and IL-10 production from alloantigen

stimulate lymphocyte proliferation in the control group

We have uncovered a novel immunostimulatory effect

of milk thistle, a botanical which has been used commonly

for its hepatotrophic effect. In this report we describe,

for the first time, the immunostimulatory activity

of this herb, including the action on allogeneic and mitogen

stimulated lymphocytes. We also demonstrated

that these effects are dose dependent and that, at pharmacologically

relevant doses, milk thistle is not toxic to

lymphocytes. Finally, our experiments found that milk

thistle can augment secretion of IFN-., IL-4, and IL-10

cytokines in stimulated lymphocytes that could be

a mechanism in which milk thistle modulated immune

system.

The active ingredients in the extract of the dried seeds

of milk thistle (or Silybum marianum) include the flavinoid

silymarin [5] which appears to act on several systems

[6–12]. Silymarin is a mixture of silybine, isosilybine,

silycristine, silydianine, and taxifoline [7] of which the

silibinins (silybin and its isomers) appear to have the

most potent effects [13]. These flavinoids are best

known for their protective actions on liver cells, but are

now recognized to have anti neoplastic and anti-inflammatory

effects also. Agarwal and coworkers have described

the antineoplastic effects of silymarin on prostate

cancer [14], skin cancer [15], and breast cancer [16].

Others have found that silibinin protects exocrine pancreas

from cyclosporin A toxicity suggesting that

extracts of milk thistle also affect the pancreatic acinar

cells [11]. Silymarin increase the glutathione content in

the liver, stomach, and intestine of rats [17]. Silibinin

and silycristine stimulates proliferation of kidney cells in

culture [18]. Finally, very small quantities of milk thistle

extract reduce nitric oxide production from astrocytes

[19]. Thus, although milk thistle is commonly used in

the treatment of liver disorders, its ingredients appear

to have stimulatory and beneficial effects on many other

cell types.

More relevant to our experiments are reports in the literature

suggesting that milk thistle also has an effect on

leukocytes. These reports have focused mainly on the

action of this botanical on macrophage and other inflammatory

cells. Tager et al. have found that the components

of milk thistle, silymarin and silibinin restore

the cellular thiol status of peritoneal macrophages from

CAPD patients [20]. The increase in the intracellular

thiol in the macrophages treated with these agents was

followed by an improvement in the phagocytosis and

 synthesis of IL-6 and IL-1ra. Other reports indicate that

silymarin suppresses the effects of TNF on inflammatory

cells. None of these reports, however, have described

the action of milk thistle on lymphocytes [21]. Thus, although

earlier reports in the literature suggest that milk

thistle has effects on leukocytes, none have reported its

effects on lymphocytes, which are a predominant cell

type that modulates the immune system.

 

i am a firm believer in taking milk thistle on a daily basis.  don't know if it will help protect us from the bird flu, but i have been taking it for over 20 years.  it is supposed to protect the liver from chemicals, alcohol, and prescription drugs.  i have lyme disease (7 years) and have been on and off of massive doses of antibiotics and my liver levels have remained within a normal range.  any thoughts?

kathie

wait cant you just get those at  like walgreens or longs?

where do you get those?

i wonder if we can even catch it ifwe have vtamen c pills, e pills, a flu shot, and tamiflu..


Edited by koolsteve

No, not every mineral, amino acid, etc is listed on the bottle. They do have those ingrediants listed on an accompanied pamphlet. This was simply a suggestion. It works for me and several friends who got approval from their doctors. I don't sell this stuff nor was my intention to force this on anyone. My apologies if this was how it came across.

I have been using alternative supplements for years. I'm not in the medical profession so I appreciate the additional information on products. I use vitamin C also. I take the Calcium Ascorbate powdered version. It's easier on my system and mixed with liquids goes to my system faster. A teaspoon equates to 4490 mg. I usually take half of that. There is also another supplement that I plan on stocking up on called "Cell Food" by Lumina. I've taken this stuff for years. Its a liquid that you put in water. It supplys oxygen to the cells and has alot of minerals, enzymes and amino acids. It also kills viruses. I don't know what the impact it would have on bird flu. I know it has been helpful for me in the past with other flus.  Perhaps someone could check into this that has more of a medical/scientific backgroud.

April, PLEASE keep posting and educating us on supplements!  I believe in them and my personal list is not inconsiderable. 

I'm sorry about failing to provide feedback to you.  I was letting this be your "baby".  Besides I already get myself in enough trouble with the medical folk around here.

What I love about your information is that it is user friendly.  People need to educate themselves about these issues so that they can make informed decisions, you facilitate that education.  A priceless contribution on our collective journey.

Both hubby and I are cancer survivors and so supplements play heavy in our lives.  I also only buy the highest quality, tested & guaranteed ingredient levels.  This, unfortunately is an issue in the supplement industry.

basically get your immune system in top shape and u should b alright........nothin like vitamin e or stuff like that a help but get your immune system n top shape...............

 

 

Supplements are great to learn about, not all people even think of taking them.  I truly believe that we all should take our supplements.

 

Some comments have been about getting antibiotics.  Are these for secdondary bacterial infections?  Which ones should I get? Input pelase.

 

Albert I did check out the web link for prescriptions but their list was very limited.  Did I miss something?  What I need I did not see.

april,  please keep posting, i am learning a lot...

Hey Albert:

I am with you all the way.  Vit C is a great thing.  You rock.  I'm glad you posted your results.  I will certainly be uping my and my families dose.  I generally take 1 - 2 K mg daily, when I remember :). 

I also think that taking acidophilus (sp) is a good thing.  I want to keep as much balance in my system as possibly.