Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > Latest News
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Omnicron outbreak Norway 50-60 cases ALL VAXXED
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

Omnicron outbreak Norway 50-60 cases ALL VAXXED

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Omnicron outbreak Norway 50-60 cases ALL VAXXED
    Posted: December 02 2021 at 11:40am

A business trip to South Africa may have sparked the world's biggest Omicron outbreak after between 50 and 60 vaccinated people were infected at a Christmas party in Norway.

Scatec staff had recently returned from South Africa, where the super-mutant strain was first discovered, before the meal at Louise Restaurant & Bar in Aker Brygge on Oslo's waterfront on Friday.

Fifty people tested positive with a PCR test and 10 with a lateral flow following the party, though so far none is thought to be seriously ill.

Oslo authorities today confirmed one positive Omicron case following the company Christmas party and said more infections were 'expected'.

Scatec has insisted only vaccinated employees were allowed to attend the party and they needed a negative test result beforehand.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...i=10267251

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 12:36pm

I saw this news article too. It's very interesting. I heard someone on the radio suggesting that if Omicron is as mutated as suggested that it's almost a different disease than the Alpha variant that was the one on which the current Covid jabs were based. It would then seem plausible that we are all potentially available to get it then. A level playing field again. 

The good news is that still all the reported cases are mild. Perhaps Omicron will prove to the be saving grace of Covid and take it into the realms of a mild cold. Here's hoping.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 3:04pm

I can't comment on all the vaccines here, except to say that the variants usually arise in the unvaxed.  I can comment on the pfizer jab - the only one I have the specifics for in this case.


The pfizer jab gives immunity on two levels, antibodies and T cell.  The antibody immunity wanes and they can't guarantee it will help combat the omicron variant.  The T cell protection however is expected to remain effective for the omicron variant.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 3:05pm

Ps. the Daily Mail is not a well respected newspaper; just ask the Dutchess of Sussex.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 6:02pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I can't comment on all the vaccines here, except to say that the variants usually arise in the unvaxed.  I can comment on the pfizer jab - the only one I have the specifics for in this case.



Interesting. 

Curious how would a virus become vaxx resistant from a mutation in a host where the vaxx was not present to mutate around? Answer it wouldn't. Evolution needs pressure and that pressure to become vaxx resistant isn't required in the non vaxxed.

And as a blanket statement "that variants usually arise in the unvaxxed" is not true. Variants have the potential to arise in both vaxxed and nonvaxxed.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 7:27pm

Vaccines Are Pushing Pathogens to Evolve

Leaky Vaccine sound familiar Techno?

 To conquer these diseases, some researchers have been developing immunizations that prevent disease without actually preventing infections — what are called “leaky” vaccines. And these new vaccines may incite a different, and potentially scarier, kind of microbial evolution.

Virulence, as a trait, is directly related to replication: The more pathogens that a person’s body houses, the sicker that person generally becomes. A high replication rate has evolutionary advantages — more microbes in the body lead to more microbes in snot or blood or stool, which gives the microbes more chances to infect others — but it also has costs, as it can kill hosts before they have the chance to pass on their infection. The problem with leaky vaccines, Read says, is that they enable pathogens to replicate unchecked while also protecting hosts from illness and death, thereby removing the costs associated with increased virulence. Over time, then, in a world of leaky vaccinations, a pathogen might evolve to become deadlier to unvaccinated hosts because it can reap the benefits of virulence without the costs — much as Marek’s disease has slowly become more lethal to unvaccinated chickens. This virulence can also cause the vaccine to start failing by causing illness in vaccinated hosts.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 9:15pm

Well said AI. There is a certain "holier than thou" attitude in some people on here. They state their point of view as a fact when it isn't.  Everything is just an opinion. Everything is up for discussion but not on this site. It's a group of frightened people who daren't even question the narrative for fear of undermining their own belief system. If I were elderly then perhaps I'd be frightened to death of it too. But frankly people would be better off to be prepared than to blindly assume they were protected just because they had been vaccinated. The vaccines may well offer people some protection for an unspecified period of time, but as we all know, the efficacy wanes quite quickly. Fully vaccinated people are still dying. I know. I have niece who works in a Covid ward of a large UK hospital.

I'm not saying that my opinions are correct, but what I am saying is that no one, at this stage in the lifecycle of this disease, has all the answers. And it's a pity that not many people are able to acknowledge that. If the idea that they don't have all the answers is too frightening for some people, I think that's their problem not ours.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 9:18pm

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Interesting. 

Curious how would a virus become vaxx resistant from a mutation in a host where the vaxx was not present to mutate around? Answer it wouldn't. Evolution needs pressure and that pressure to become vaxx resistant isn't required in the non vaxxed.

And as a blanket statement "that variants usually arise in the unvaxxed" is not true. Variants have the potential to arise in both vaxxed and nonvaxxed.

Dr John Campbell agrees with you on that one. He's done a video on it. He actually said that the really variant will come from a vaccinated person, and it will be nasty because it will have learned how to resist the vaccines.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94027
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 9:58pm

Two things; 

-Omicron has made me very afraid - I am human, fear, emotions deserve a place on this forum of non-experts...It should not be on "who is right or wrong"...maybe sharing idea's, views with accepting we do not know that much...

Even experts are trying to learn more (and most of them must be very shocked by what they see). I do not expect experts may all agree 100% on everything...

-I think vaccine/immunity after infection will play a role in how this virus/pandemic will develop further...Why would that factor not be an increasing one if immunity is increasing and viral spread is still at a much to high level....

I did see several theories on how Omicron started...glad not to see a lab-leak one yet...Immuno compromised - for some of them vaccinations simply will not be able to provide immunity....Another interesting one is Omicron may have started in a non-human host....

Most people in this world still are not vaccinated-not by choice but because they can not get a vaccination. Here in NL -and in lots of other places- under 12 y/o still have no chance on getting a vaccine. I hope to be able to get a booster vaccination early 2022...NL is very slow again...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 10:35pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Well said AI. There is a certain "holier than thou" attitude in some people on here. They state their point of view as a fact when it isn't.  Everything is just an opinion. Everything is up for discussion but not on this site. It's a group of frightened people who daren't even question the narrative for fear of undermining their own belief system. If I were elderly then perhaps I'd be frightened to death of it too. But frankly people would be better off to be prepared than to blindly assume they were protected just because they had been vaccinated. The vaccines may well offer people some protection for an unspecified period of time, but as we all know, the efficacy wanes quite quickly. Fully vaccinated people are still dying. I know. I have niece who works in a Covid ward of a large UK hospital.

I'm not saying that my opinions are correct, but what I am saying is that no one, at this stage in the lifecycle of this disease, has all the answers. And it's a pity that not many people are able to acknowledge that. If the idea that they don't have all the answers is too frightening for some people, I think that's their problem not ours.

I'm well aware of the hive mentality here and their proclivity to embrace selective science that embraces that hive mentality. The understanding of covid as well as that of the various vaxx's are ongoing and as a result one can only assume that attitudes and opinions would adjust accordingly. Failure to do so is to deny the reality of the situation as it actually exists.

And I'm big on facts so let the fact checking games begin, you put it out there, then back it up, easy enough don't spout nonsense. And one last thing I'm not antivaxx, I think the vaxx has it's place for some, not for others, it's not a one size fits all solution. It's a personal health choice not a requirement. And if you think it is, I'll meet you on that hill.

And that above was not directed at you specifically Kiwimom at least not in it's entirety, rather it was directed at the hive. And they know who they are.

Shout out to DJ gotta like your diligence in your research to go where the information takes you. IMHO you'r carrying the place in regards to information.Cheers    

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94027
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 12:11am

DJ, 

I try to stay open-minded...limit the non-sense the best I can...

As "an old human" for me taking two vaccines-willing to get a booster-was not that hard.....not that much left to lose, hope vaccines would "give" some better protection...

I live in the [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana a sort of European Mega-city with a population of 111 million+...In a 30 km radius over 1 million, in a 150-300 km radius over 100 million-like...

In this region vaccines have to play a different role then when you live in New Zealand, (Western) Australia, Iceland, Scotland, Cuba or even Israel....it is "pretty crowded"in the NW of Europe...

NPI/restrictions so far were most effective in limiting this pandemic-as my opinion. Keeping virusses out may be the best option for some-more remote-places....

Austria has mandatory vaccines for all (from certain age), Angela Merkel her last act (as good as) as "mother"/PM of Germany was making vaccines mandatory in that country...(still has to go the legal proces). 

I am not against mandatory vaccinations per se...Voluntary vaccinations often did give very high levels of people being vaccinated. In the past we did see vaccines-mandatory-helping to limit disease. We may need to take that step one day (for now a majority in NL seems to be against that step-for now). 

Omicron is changing the picture of this pandemic very high speed, trying to "follow that story" in scenario's the best I can !

 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 29640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 12:34am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

-Omicron has made me very afraid - I am human, fear, emotions deserve a place on this forum of non-experts...It should not be on "who is right or wrong"...maybe sharing idea's, views with accepting we do not know that much...

Even experts are trying to learn more (and most of them must be very shocked by what they see). I do not expect experts may all agree 100% on everything...

Well said Josh. It should not be about who's right or wrong but about sharing info and ideas and accepting that we don't know it all. I wish this forum could be like that.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 4:44am

Yes, vaccines to circumvent are an evolutionary pressure on viruses.  However, that is a tiny part of the overall picture.  The main assistance to a bug to evolve is its own numbers.  Vaccination limits the number of hosts available to breed in, therefore limits the emergence of new variants in the first place.  If there are new variants around in a partially vaccinated population, then those that can evade the vaccine have an evolutionary advantage.  

But the numbers are the main factor.  That is why ring vaccination eliminated smallpox and vaccination would have eliminated polio had the anti-vax brigade let the medical people do their jobs.

That is why this omicron variant probably arose in one of the least vaccinated continents, Africa.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
A-I View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: August 15 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 4925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 12:44pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Yes, vaccines to circumvent are an evolutionary pressure on viruses.  However, that is a tiny part of the overall picture.  The main assistance to a bug to evolve is its own numbers.  Vaccination limits the number of hosts available to breed in, therefore limits the emergence of new variants in the first place.  If there are new variants around in a partially vaccinated population, then those that can evade the vaccine have an evolutionary advantage.  

But the numbers are the main factor.  That is why ring vaccination eliminated smallpox and vaccination would have eliminated polio had the anti-vax brigade let the medical people do their jobs.

That is why this omicron variant probably arose in one of the least vaccinated continents, Africa.

You surely can't be comparing the smallpox vaccine to the covid vaxxs. The smallpox vaccine actually prevents infection from smallpox. The same can not be said of the numerous covid vaxxs.

Perhaps you'r using the "new" definition of the word vaccination by the CDC as shown below, seems to change occasionally. LOL

But even the latest Sep 2021 definition still isn't quite right in regards to the covid vaxx as it is missing the operative word limited, as in limited protection. Kinda makes ya miss the good old days when vaccination meant prevent huh.  

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 1:25pm
What type of virus is smallpox virus?


The variola virus is a large, brick-shaped, double-stranded DNA virus that serologically cross-reacts with other members of the poxvirus family, including ectromelia, cowpox, monkeypox, vaccinia, and camelpox. Unlike other DNA viruses, the variola virus multiplies in the cytoplasm of parasitized host cells.28 July 2020
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down