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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 19 2022 at 10:01pm

DJ, I do not own this forum (as far as I understand Albert does ???) but maybe time to make some points;

-This is NOT a scientific forum-at best it is a forum on science...Non of us are/can claim to be "experts"

-There is NO room on this forum for insults, threats...try to keep it polite

-By definition all on this forum is an opinion, maybe with links to sources...still this is an opinion-forum !

-We welcome new members, not push them out...

DJ-This forum-like lots of things at present-is in a sort of crisis. On the other hand lots of people try to make up their minds...(I know I do...)...For their reasons lots of former members did leave this forum. 

The point of a forum- a "digital marketplace" is to offer different opinions, to disagree to a certain level...If possible in a polite way...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2022 at 1:42am

Maybe defining my position on this forum; I am not only a guest -this is not my "home"; I have to show respect...but also this forum its goal is to give opinions...also when those opinions are not as "welcome/positive" as some would like them to be..

I am also a host...It is not in my nature to "jump" on people..I rather wait and see what they have to say...

My native language is Dutch, not English...both not being native in English and "typo's" may result in errors...Also sometimes culture may be a factor; the Dutch have a reputation for being direct...In some cultures that is seen as inpolite...

So-again-I would welcome more activity on this forum...based on mutual respect...

reactions welcome !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2022 at 9:55pm

...I often get the feeling of talking to myself here...I do expect CoVid/pandemics to worsen, that may provide me a reason to stick around a few months longer...Hope to "keep this forum from going under"...Also go further then (shallow at best) main stream media...

Hope to see some constructive activity on this forum...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2022 at 12:50pm

I hear you Josh. It's a pity that the forum isn't very active at the moment. It sort of imploded over the Covid vaccines, which was a good reflection of life in most of the Western world since the vaccines became a black or white subject, with no grey areas at all! 

I'm a member of a number of groups and what I've observed is that many people have drawn a line in the sand and woebetide anyone who dares to cross it. Discussion and tolerance has gone out the window.

The other factor that I think has affected the activity on here is simply Covid fatigue. Everyone is so over it. I am. Here in NZ we only dropped the  compulsory mask mandate last week, about 6 months after the rest of the world, and everyone is so happy about it. The media have been trying to suggest that some sectors of society, mainly the elderly and the clinically vulnerable are upset about it, but not in my experience. I visit a group of elderly women once a week and they are all delighted about it, not at all upset, and I have friends who have parents who are being treated for cancers and the like, and they are all relieved about it too. 

Hopefully the forum will keep ticking along, and then in time it'll pick up again. You're doing a great job though on reporting the facts.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2022 at 9:44pm

KiwiMum, thanks for your reaction, 

-I share the CoViD-fatigue...(with me mixed with frustration over bad strategies)

-Most things in live are not black-or white, "fifty shades of grey" may be more fitting, nuance...

I think this -once-a forum could inform people looking for answers. No one here ever claimed to be the 100% expert-some had/have strong opinions...(I will not mention the Ukraine war...wich could/should have been prevented...)...

So I hope this forum will revive...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2022 at 8:26am

What I would like to see is the breaking news actually being disease related.  That is what this site was built for.  Why is it nothing but war news?  That should be in a different section.  I like to look at it occasionally but I came to this site many, many years ago to hear about all diseases all over the world.  I shouldn't have to sift through war stuff to find the content that this site was created for. Just my opinion!

NOW is the Season to Know

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2022 at 9:36am

roni3470, I understand your point...Maybe it would be wise to seperate "war"issues a bit more-an apart section...I tried it with latest news-nuclear war but that derailed....

I do think war, economy, climate all have pandemic links-in scenario's, pandemic breakfast I do mention them-but focus on the disease part...

Maybe also "is this a prepper-site", with special info on -once "Avian Flu Talk" ? 

There is a lot of war, crises going on...but there should be some balance... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2022 at 2:36pm

DJ, thanks!  As I'm a classically trained epidemiologist, I tend to hew closely to established science and facts, not political will. 

Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  The mRNA vaccines have long been studied for cancer treatment, and their application for fighting COVID-19 was nothing less than brilliant.  This provides a potent new tool to fight many established (HIV-AIDS) and emerging diseases quickly and safely. 

We almost had eradicated many infectious diseases that have long plagued us.  However, thanks to false information on the Internet and irrational fears, we now see old nemeses like polio, measles and other re-emerging.  Those who believe they are protecting their children by withholding vaccines are very sadly mistaken. 

https://www.unicef.org/stories/measles-cases-spiking-globally

All for now, I'm glad to be in touch with old friends.  I highly recommend obtaining the most current COVID-19 booster at your earliest convenience.  People are still dying from COVID-19.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 3:25am

I agree!! With Roni. About this forum

I do not agree about the boosters especially if you have natural immunity. I have 3 friends who recently got the new booster and all 3 got myocarditis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 12:32pm

I agree with Roni and Usk too. There is too much posting about the Russian conflict in the wrong threads. I've just moved 2 posts by ksc that were in this thread. I suggest we limit the war talk to Dutch Josh's thread about Non Pandemic Items.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 10:06pm

Usk, you mentioned [url]https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-patients-and-visitors/patient-information/conditions-treated-a-to-z/myocarditis[/url] or https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-patients-and-visitors/patient-information/conditions-treated-a-to-z/myocarditis in 3 boostered friends...Was that an official (and booster linked) diagnosis ? 

On more focus on pandemics - this once was "Avian Flu Talk" - I stick to my plan of putting most non-pandemic news in the section non-pandemic news...however in my (as good as) daily "pandemic breakfast" I could refer to "latest news"...

Again-from a history point of view-the Spanish Flu can NOT be understood without links to World War One...most major pandemics did have "war-links"...but I will limit the war-part...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 3:52am

Yes. They spent time in the hospital and er docs said they had seem more of this since the newest booster has been released

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2022 at 6:35am

https://quoththeraven.substack.com/p/twitter-censors-surgeon-general-after

Link to cdc cautions use of boosters for men 18 to 39 increased risk of sudden death linked to it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2022 at 7:57am

In reaction to the Florida CoViD-vaccine "study" [url]https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1578894014132408320[/url] or https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1578894014132408320 did see incorrect basis for the study. 

Yet, despite huge analytic errors and limitations, this is now being put forward as evidence that mRNA vaccines put people at risk of cardiac death, when the paper doesn't show this. And so many studies show benefits far outweigh risks.

-

I do want to say very clearly- I do think vaccine injury occurs, and I think it is important to understand, study, and treat. But this piece isn't about vaccine injury- it's just pseudoscience. The benefits of vaccines at population level far exceed the risks.

DJ...still I think vaccines only can have use in combination with a much wider strategy. For that matter I -non expert- think the present vaccine strategy;

-did save millions of lives in the short term

-contributed to all kinds of immunity evasive variants in the longer term...

Another point could be if we could have stopped the pandemic without vaccines...Early action could have stopped the spread. Why air-traffic went on during the Wuhan 2020 lockdown I simply fail to understand...Why we did offer free airtravel to all kinds of varinats-knowing vaccines at best limit disease NOT stop infection & spread- is beyond me...

We may be close to the point [url]https://www.thailandmedical.news/articles/news[/url] or https://www.thailandmedical.news/articles/news in fact has been warning for-running out of tools to stop variants infecting people over and over again...In my non-expert idea the only way to stop this pandemic now would be "draconian"...long term lockdown, almost zero travel...sort of "freeze"...Maybe "politics" is working in that direction but "naming it differently" ? (war...)

Most vaccines used worldwide-by the way-were NOT mRNA -vaccines but most likely from India, China, Russia..."old-style"...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2022 at 2:09pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:


Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  

As opposed to coercive vaccination policies being dominated by nazis. You get to own your comments relating to the vaxx from here till hell freezes over. Because I sure as hell am not forgetting them or what your kind tried to pull. Unsuccessfully I might add. I have your related comments captured on screen shots, if you'd like to be reminded I can post them. Camps ring a bell????????

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 5:40am

We were all being expected to follow some grand experiment. Lucky for some you stood up for your body your choice and were vilified for it.  Those of you in here and the rest of humanity that stood up for your right to choose I salute you and I am very proud of you

Some of like me had to get vaccinated or loss their job. I stll got COVID and survived 4 times!  
i find myself very sad for humanity. We walked this crisis and did not act with the compassion and grace we should and that is on each of us

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 12:43pm

Originally posted by Usk Usk wrote:

We were all being expected to follow some grand experiment. Lucky for some you stood up for your body your choice and were vilified for it.  Those of you in here and the rest of humanity that stood up for your right to choose I salute you and I am very proud of you

Some of like me had to get vaccinated or loss their job. I stll got COVID and survived 4 times!  
i find myself very sad for humanity. We walked this crisis and did not act with the compassion and grace we should and that is on each of us

Well said. An old friend of mine was forced to have the jabs or she would have lost her teaching job, and she was severely vaccine injured by them and after the 2nd one was unable to work for 8 months. She's facing a long and terrifying journey back to health and she's so upset by it, as are her family. It's so sad.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 7:43pm

I am so sorry for your friend. I have been fortunate to have no lasting effects now. I did have an enlarged spleen for 6 months since Omicron and still have loss of smell. I will have your friend in my prayers. I hope she gets the care and support medically that I have fortunate to get where I live

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 9:06pm

DJ, 

Maybe a NL/European perspective on where this discussion is going;

three points; labor laws, vaccines, social media;

1-Labor laws;

In NL-most of western Europe an employer has not even the right to ask if you did get vaccinated...There are some high-risk jobs-often with international tules- like pilots, off shore, oil rigs, international shipping where there are other rules...We had some discussions on mandatory vaccines in nursing homes, childcare (there there were two discussions; one employees-workers to be vaccinated...or could one demand children did have basic vaccinations...).

What I understand is that in a.o. the US big companies, employers are allowed to tell you to get vaccinated...simply unthinkable in most of Europe...

2.Vaccines ;

We have vaccination programs for young children, tax funded...offered at consultation centers. Health insurance may cover costs for some travel-related vaccinations...I believe the vaccination level for new borns, young children see 90-95% of the parents getting their children vaccinated...Some religious groups, limited anti-vax groups do not go for (all) of the vaccines...

The basic idea however is "vaccines sell themselves"...They have to proof they do their job...we did have polio in the past...as good as gone due to vaccines...other diseases are very limited...

CoViD vaccines levels in NL is 80-85% of all 12+ of the population did make the choice to get at least two vaccines...[url]https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/vaccinaties[/url] or https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/vaccinaties 

3. Social media ;

We did see a lot of protests against mandatory vaccinations...however both politics and trade unions both were/are against mandatory vaccinations in general...So that discussion is an imported discussion...reflecting basiccally a US conflict...Some US companies in NL wanted their employees to get vaccinated...A company may share their ideas on anything...but that is it...

"Social"media also did see lots of non-sense on chip implants, Bill Gates etc...most of that non-sense also imported from the US...(We even have some "gangster culture" now imported that way...)...So "social media" was pushing protests against plans that did not exist...

DJ-It is YOUR body-you have a right of privacy on medical issues....An employer can (via the CAO, central contract on labor) give you time under working hours for medical reasons...could be dentist or getting vaccinated...One of the reasons we have had limited labor-conflicts is both employers and trade unions can agree on a lot of issues...Conflicts is not in the interest of anyone...

This was a "US dominated/based" forum...a lot of the conflicts that did do severe damage are US (made) conflicts...I believe in sharing info...getting informed...I "hate" conflict... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2022 at 11:32pm

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:


Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  

As opposed to coercive vaccination policies being dominated by nazis. You get to own your comments relating to the vaxx from here till hell freezes over. Because I sure as hell am not forgetting them or what your kind tried to pull. Unsuccessfully I might add. I have your related comments captured on screen shots, if you'd like to be reminded I can post them. Camps ring a bell????????

Post away.  

As the only one on this site with an advanced degree in Epidemiology, I stand by my comments.  Kiwimum, you longed for the Chinese Sinovax vaccine (which has largely been proven ineffective, hence the ongoing COVID lockdowns in China).   DJ, as always, you amaze me, keep it up. 

AI, who the hell are you?  "My kind" are classically trained viral epidemiologists.  Thanks to our work, major scourges including smallpox have been eliminated.  Polio and measles, which could have been eradicated, are resurgent thanks to the likes of you and your denialist/ignorant ilk. 

Tired of COVID?  Get ready, new variants are gearing up.   People are still dying from COVID, and just because we are tired of the pandemic, the viruses don't care what we think.  We are fresh meat to them, nothing else. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-omicron-covid-19-subvariants-on-the-rise-in-u-s-cdc-says-11665761579

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2022 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Kiwimum, you longed for the Chinese Sinovax vaccine (which has largely been proven ineffective, hence the ongoing COVID lockdowns in China).   

Well I was open to the idea of it but I wouldn't say I longed for it. As it turned out, after extensive research, I decided not to have any of the offered vaccines. I had Covid, as did all my vaccinated and unvaccinated friends, and I was ill with it, I recovered and have been fine ever since. In fact my whole family had it and we all recovered. But then we are lucky in that we are fit and healthy and have no underlying medical conditions. 

I'm not interested in the argument about be pro or anti Covid vaccine as it's all water under the bridge. I am interested to see that Pfizer have recently admitted under oath and on camera that the claims that their vaccine would stop transmission and infection were untrue. They had no proof to back up their claims. 

Every single person I know who was vaccinated have had Covid, to greater or lesser degrees, and I unfortunately know more and more people who are vaccine injured and are finally speaking out about it.

I guess at the end of the day, whether or not to have any of the Covid vaccines is a wholly personal choice, It really does not make any difference to anyone else so it's down to the individual.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2022 at 11:14pm

CRS, DrPH, with all respect on Sinovac [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac ;

CoronaVac, also known as the Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine,[3] is a whole inactivated virus COVID-19 vaccine developed by the Chinese company Sinovac Biotech.[4][5] It was Phase III clinical trialled in Brazil,[6] Chile,[7] Indonesia,[8] the Philippines,[9] and Turkey[10] and relies on traditional technology similar to other inactivated-virus COVID-19 vaccines, such as the Sinopharm BIBP vaccine, another Chinese vaccine, and Covaxin, an Indian vaccine.[11] CoronaVac does not need to be frozen and both the final product and the raw material for formulating CoronaVac can be transported refrigerated at 2–8 °C (36–46 °F), temperatures at which flu vaccines are kept.[12]

A real-world study of tens of millions of Chileans who received CoronaVac found it 66% effective against symptomatic COVID-19, 88% against hospitalization, 90% against ICU admissions, and 86% against deaths.[13] In Brazil, after 75% of the population in Serrana, São Paulo, received CoronaVac, preliminary results show deaths fell by 95%, hospitalizations by 86%, and symptomatic cases by 80%.[14][15] In Indonesia, real world data from 128,290 healthcare workers showed 94% protection against symptomatic infection by the vaccine, beating results in clinical trials.[16]

Phase III results from Turkey published in The Lancet showed an efficacy of 84% based on 10,218 participants in the trials.[17][18] Phase III results from Brazil previously showed 50.7% efficacy at preventing symptomatic infections and 83.7% effective in preventing mild cases needing treatment. Efficacy against symptomatic infections increased to 62.3% with an interval of 21 days or more between the doses.[19]

CoronaVac is being used in vaccination campaigns in various countries in Asia,[20][21][22] South America,[23][24][25] Central America,[26][27][28] and Eastern Europe.[29][30][31] By April 2021, Sinovac had a production capacity of 2 billion doses a year.[32] It is currently being manufactured at several facilities in China,[32] with planned overseas manufacture in Brazil in September 2021[33] and eventually in Egypt[34] and Hungary.[35]

On 1 June 2021, the World Health Organization (WHO) validated the vaccine for emergency use.[36][37] Sinovac has signed purchase agreements for 380 million doses from COVAX.[38] As of July 2021, CoronaVac was the most widely used COVID-19 vaccine in the world, with 943 million doses delivered.[39]

As of 14 October 2021, CoronaVac is the COVID-19 vaccine with most doses administered worldwide.[40]

A recent study jointly conducted by the LKS Faculty of Medicine, The University of Hong Kong (HKUMed) and the Faculty of Medicine, The Chinese University of Hong Kong (CU Medicine) showed that a third dose of Comirnaty vaccine given to those who received two doses of either Comirnaty or CoronaVac provides protective levels of measured antibodies against the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2. Three doses of CoronaVac however did not provide adequate levels of protective antibodies by the same measure,[41] in direct contradiction to claims made by the vaccine manufacturer.[42][43]

DJ, The reason China is using lockdowns is the Zero-CoViD policy...the reason why "the west" has problems with that is profits...economy first...

In my view having only two vaccines -almost a monopoly- Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna (both mRNA) in most of the west (Sputnik-V did ask the EMA for access to the EU but never got an answer...) may not be "the smartest move"...AstraZeneca being sidelined by "bad press"...

Vaccinations were not only used to limit disease on an individual level but also vaccines were believed to "make living with the virus" possible...So on the big picture-yes vaccines did reduce CoViD deaths but fail to make "living with the virus possible"...New variants simply "select" ways around vaccine/infection caused immunity...

We have a long way to go still...(nasal vaccines look promissing...but first stories on them are two years old by now ???)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2022 at 11:36pm

Thanks, DJ, good post! 

Coronaviruses have never been controlled with a whole virus vaccine.  If it were possible, we would have eliminated the common cold decades ago. 

China lacked the vaccine knowledge & resources of the West.   mRNA vaccines were based upon long studied mRNA technology used in cancer research, it was an easy leap to adapt this proven platform to a simple RNA vaccine like SARS-CoV2.  

I thought that the AstraZeneca vaccine was a dangerous gamble:

"The Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID‑19 vaccine, sold under the brand names Covishield[28] and Vaxzevria[1][29] among others, is a viral vector vaccine for prevention of COVID-19. Developed in the United Kingdom by Oxford University and British-Swedish company AstraZeneca,[30][31][32] using as a vector the modified chimpanzee adenovirus ChAdOx1.[33] "

Simian viruses are notoriously dangerous in humans, that is how HIV AIDS started.  The risk of contamination by using this vector was much too high in my opinion. 

Of all the vaccines, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine made a great deal of sense to me.  A first dose of J&J with subsequent mRNA boosters would likely give the most robust immune response, as I believe J&J gave superior T-cell response, unlike mRNA vaccines which mostly elicited the antibody immune response.  

KiwiMum, I'm pleased that you have survived your exposure to SARS-CoV2.  Sadly, it is becoming apparent that the damage from infection can be very long-lasting and affects many different organ systems, including vascular, pulmonary and neurological. 

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/covid-19-infections-increase-risk-of-long-term-brain-problems/

Remember, this was a animal pathogen that spilled over into human hosts.  We are lucky it wasn't as lethal as 2003 SARS coronavirus, although COVID seemed to transmit more readily. 

We aren't through with this yet.  We may be tired of the virus, but it isn't tired of us. 

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2022 at 1:06am

CRS, DrPH thanks for your reaction...

The way I see it-as a non-expert-we are getting lost in a labyrinth of many crises...pandemic-related to climate change, meat production is just one (cluster) of it...The political, economic chaos is another aspect...You do not solve problems by creating money and giving that to "experts" claiming to solve the problem (with politics holding shares in the expert-companies...otherwise funded by "donations"...). 

-Vaccines-in this phase-only may be part of the way out...Variants are developing, mutating high speed- to evade immunity...Nasal vaccines may offer perspectives...but there will be a reason why we do not have larger scale use of nasal vaccines...

-In the short term another way out means limiting transport/spread of variants...False claims of "economy/profit' and "freedom" (without responsibility...) for now block that way out...

-We need an international plan, effort to get out of these crises...not more wars...

Long term solutions for public health demand rethinking the way "we" live...Most of us do not fly that often...a lot of people would be in better shape if they did use their car less...airpolution is a major problem. Stop eating meat may be "radical" for now but if we want to limit risks of animal diseases causing pandemics we have to reduce exposure...

"Planned parenthood" means family-planning...If people want to have children they have a responsibility for education, safety...Global population reduction via better family planning is welcome...Better education for women means less babies....

At the moment "we" are not even starting to get a grip on this pandemic and the underlying crises...Information, communication is the basic tool for change...

Just some ideas on a saturday morning....

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2022 at 1:20pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

KiwiMum, I'm pleased that you have survived your exposure to SARS-CoV2.  Sadly, it is becoming apparent that the damage from infection can be very long-lasting and affects many different organ systems, including vascular, pulmonary and neurological. 

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/covid-19-infections-increase-risk-of-long-term-brain-problems/

Remember, this was a animal pathogen that spilled over into human hosts.  We are lucky it wasn't as lethal as 2003 SARS coronavirus, although COVID seemed to transmit more readily. 

We aren't through with this yet.  We may be tired of the virus, but it isn't tired of us. 

Yes Covid does appear to have long term effects on people, regardless whether they had the vaccine or not. One of my cousins who is immuno-compromised and has had 4 full strength vaccine doses and 2 boosters, and although she has been shielding since the start of Covid, has recently caught it. The vaccines did nothing to protect her. She was then prescribed Paxlovid and has taken a course of that, and all that did was suppress some of the worse symptoms but she's a long way from being better.

With hindsight, I'm glad we chose not to have the vaccines, and we've had no long term effects from having the virus. Covid took a long time to recover fully from. But as I said, we're all fit and healthy in our family and maybe if we weren't then we'd have made different choices.

And I agree with you Chuck, I don't think Covid has finished with the human race yet!

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 12:51am

I chose to get 2 covid vaccines and 1 booster, when they first became available. We had a co-worker die after spending 4 months in the hospital and then a rehab, she suddenly died. Our jobs eventually required us to get the vaccine or be fired, I'm glad I already had it. I did get this new variant over the summer and was started on meds within 2 days of getting sick, only had a couple of real bad days. But 3 months later I am still so tired all the time and still have a nagging cough. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 9:04am

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:


Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  

As opposed to coercive vaccination policies being dominated by nazis. You get to own your comments relating to the vaxx from here till hell freezes over. Because I sure as hell am not forgetting them or what your kind tried to pull. Unsuccessfully I might add. I have your related comments captured on screen shots, if you'd like to be reminded I can post them. Camps ring a bell????????

Post away.  

As the only one on this site with an advanced degree in Epidemiology, I stand by my comments.  Kiwimum, you longed for the Chinese Sinovax vaccine (which has largely been proven ineffective, hence the ongoing COVID lockdowns in China).   DJ, as always, you amaze me, keep it up. 

AI, who the hell are you?  "My kind" are classically trained viral epidemiologists.  Thanks to our work, major scourges including smallpox have been eliminated.  Polio and measles, which could have been eradicated, are resurgent thanks to the likes of you and your denialist/ignorant ilk. 

Tired of COVID?  Get ready, new variants are gearing up.   People are still dying from COVID, and just because we are tired of the pandemic, the viruses don't care what we think.  We are fresh meat to them, nothing else. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-omicron-covid-19-subvariants-on-the-rise-in-u-s-cdc-says-11665761579

Well classically trained viral epidemiologist go ahead and answer the question relating to masks that you seem to want to forget and have never answered. And lets follow the science shall we. 

As for what your kind is that's the extremest kind. Trying to hide in the herd of epidemiologist isn't working as I have not seen one single professional call for there being camps for the unvaxxed. That distinction belongs to you and you alone as Mr classically trained viral epidemiologist extremest.  

And yes your comments about wanting to stick the unvaxxed into camps were based on what science? Was there science involved in that statement of yours given that the vaxxed can, do and did and continue to readily transmit covid, which at the time of your statement there was science proving just that, which was available. Yours was a comment spewed out based more on political rhetoric being made at that time by the blunder in chief Bidum that was NOT based on science. History shows Hitler was surrounded by just such scientist who readily spewed whatever propaganda the party demanded of them and did so willingly. Extremest are like that though. You are no different.

As for masks I did see you calling them "useless" and saying "calm down no mask will save you".  And given that you'r an expert I expect that you based that response on your knowledge of all the peer reviewed large scale mask studies (surgical masks) prior to covid about the virtually negligible effect they had on stopping the flu in study after study. And no you didn't give the "saving them for health care workers" excuse at the time you stated all that, that came later.  Now the question I have for the expert such as yourself, is how is it that simple cloth masks are now proclaimed by you to stop the spread of covid yet they couldn't help stop a less transmissible virus like the flu?  And lets not forget that the flu and covid are both spread via droplet transmission so the "well the masks are catching coughs and sneezes" applied to the flu studies as well. It's a very simple question.

And now we get to your leper colony for those not vaxxed comment. I assume you must also be thinking there would be a separate but equal leper colony for those who are vaxxed. I mean you are the expert and you are cognizant by now I hope of the fact the vaxx doesn't stop transmission of covid by those vaxxed correct? ???And Omnicron seems to not care in the least about being spread by the triple vaxxed, and is in fact seems quite adept at being spread by the vaxxed. You are going to need a really really big vaxxed leper colony.

And the leper colony comment and  your prior comments about wanting to use tanks on protesters as well as a few others you have made leads me to believe you are an extremist. Camps for the non vaxxed  LOL how very VAXXNAZI of you, maybe you can command a panzer tank at one. It's a good thing you are not in a position to actually effect any policy, or well do anything really for that matter actually, but post your extremist views. 


"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 10:10am

Originally posted by Penham Penham wrote:

I chose to get 2 covid vaccines and 1 booster, when they first became available. We had a co-worker die after spending 4 months in the hospital and then a rehab, she suddenly died. Our jobs eventually required us to get the vaccine or be fired, I'm glad I already had it. I did get this new variant over the summer and was started on meds within 2 days of getting sick, only had a couple of real bad days. But 3 months later I am still so tired all the time and still have a nagging cough. 

I'm sorry to hear that Penham. I hope you recover fully soon. Frustratingly  I think it just takes time. 

When covid came through our house, we were properly ill. I was sick for about 8 days, my hubby about the same, but the children only about 3 days each. Mine then turned into a chronic ear and throat infection for another 4 or 5 days, but all of us felt completely exhausted for a couple of weeks afterwards and so ended up having about 3 weeks off work. My hubby and I both felt better for a few days, then suddenly run over by a bus again, but each return was less severe than the last. We were talking about it the other night and reckon it took us a full 3 months to get over the tiredness, and also to stop looking exhausted. 

Covid certainly seems to be long lasting and utterly debilitating. Quite a few people I know have also had that returning wave of exhaustion in the weeks after it. My cough lasted about 3 or 4 weeks.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 5:11pm

Yes, it's been about 3 months now.  I'm tired of being tired all the time. If I don't have to work I can sleep for 12 hours.....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2022 at 4:44am

Those that still have long Covid symptoms may i suggest doubling vit D and adding B12 shots or under tongue dissolving tabs. That regiment worked for me

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judeusx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2023 at 4:03pm

Was scanning some posts above, quick. I found this forum at the ukraine swineflu time i think,long ago,it was my main source. Also "POTR blog" and one guy Nimann or something like that. Over the years I allways came back. In dec. 2019 I started diving into the Wuhan outbreak. "Flutalk" didnt have almost any relevant info anymore. Potr was dead, and most other sources didnt understand what was happening.I only found one thread on a general forum with quality info from the beginning.And later "Thailand Medical News". Same thing around sept last year,when i started diving into the vaccine. Main sources became  people like Zee,Ruby,Westall who were brave enough to question things.That was a VERY deep dive,which even for me was SHOCKING ! ! ! (cant even express how much ) Flutalk missed that chance in 2020 to become a leader,you were the only forum who could have done that at that time,with enough credentials. I guess the problem was the "speed of science" allthough you allways had Kiwis and other prepping visionaries,when I remember well. About covid-19 the info on TMN, daily,is allready enough to convince even the most die-hard scientist,WHEN they would read the papers. The vaccination is still a tabu and shrouded in silence,else the world falls apart. I am not a scientist or in the medical profession,but I "read/scanned over" medical papers,patents etc by the hundreds in the last months. And I dare to say most doctors didnt even glance at them.If you follow the threads its a DARPA- DOD operation,with their patents.And yes,it goes into the direction of androids,and removing the connection with the human soul.I dont want to stir up things,and wont talk about it anymore,but One direction of this forum could be to provide a source of information about remedies and solutions. Without "sticking your head in the sand". Nothing is more important for the sake of Humanity. (yeah,I know.. but its true )

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2023 at 8:48pm

Judeusx, the last 3 years have been tumultuous for everyone, on every health related forum. This forum used to be quite a lively place of discussion but the vaccines divided the members on here just like it divided society as a whole. I saw people here nail their colours to the mast and go all in for the vaccine despite there being no medical information to back up the claims the manufacturers were making. That in itself wasn't the problem. The problems occurred when the definite pro vaxxers refused to even consider the view points of the more cautious people who were suggesting that the vaccines might not be safe, or might have unknown side effects. Things got very heated and very nasty on here for months. The upshot of all this was that a group of extreme pro vaxxers left, and that's a real pity because before they took their "vaccines are marvellous" viewpoint, they had some really great insights and opinions and were regular contributors to this forum.

What was particularly nasty was the personal insults that were thrown at anyone who wasn't 100% pro vaccine. The label "anti vaxxer' was attached to anyone who even questioned the safety of them, and that was just plain unfair. There were many people on here who were up to date with their regular vaccines but weren't prepared to rush in to take an experimental vaccine and be a guinea pig to science, and these people were ganged up on, insulted, and bullied. I understand that many people were reacting from a place of fear, but that kind of behaviour is unacceptable and uncalled for.

Of course now we can all see that the vaccines were far from perfect. There are countless studies that show we were all lied to about the miracle protection they were offering and millions of people had side effects from the jabs, and who knows how many died from them. When countries like Australia, who were the most pro vaxx of all the countries on earth and who mandated vaccines for everyone, when they have now BANNED the Astra Veneca jab from Australia, I think we can all see that it's a major admission that something was very wrong with the speedy roll out. We are all familiar with the huge number of people who are listed as "died suddenly". Every week there is another youngish person who has just dropped dead. Heart attacks in the young are starting to be normalised.

The trouble is it's very hard for people to come back from an extreme viewpoint and so we haven't seen those members who left in a huff come back and join the discussion most probably because they don't want to admit that they were misguided. And we've all lost out as a result. 

There is a reason that the average vaccine undergoes 10-12 years of trials, and the rush to bring out a Covid vaccine was dangerous and stupid. And more importantly I think it will damage vaccine uptakes in the future as more and more lies and misinformation is being revealed to us. 

Feel free to start a new topic in General Discussion about herbal remedies and alternative health solutions. You are most welcome as an active member of this forum. Welcome.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judeusx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2023 at 10:53pm

Hi,KiwiMum ! Respect to you and Josh for staying !. Yeah,I know,you had a lot of "hardliners" here. The tragedy is that people trusted their doctors,and the doctors failed miserably,professionally and as a human being.Even hunting the bounty quotes from pharmaceutical companies,and killing people in hospitals. Everybody stuck their head in the sand ! And now they cant admit anything,because then their whole world falls apart. And I must "admit" that the truth is much to much for a normal person,this whole thing is so multifaceted and goes so deep !  The only positive thing is that people are waking up,and start questioning authority. And the only way to get out of this mess is to go to the bottom of it,Face the Truth. Otherwise we are lost. Yes I know,sounds like big words,but unfortunately thats were we are now.  Maybe its allready to late,its spreading into all warmblooded animals and merging,a selfspreading mechanism. And now we start vaccinating the animals. Its not even the Mrna which is the biggest problem,but the lipid nano particle envelope,delivering the modificated,self replicating spike everywhere ! I am an optimist,but allways want to know even the worst,to then find a solution. At the moment we are in an in between period. On twitter you can talk about Ivermectin,NAc,HCQ,etc. But huge amounts of H5N1 drugs ( oseltamivir, peramivir & zanamivir ) are allready being transported over the globe,preparing for the next lockdowns ?.The next crackdown on "fake news" by truth checker nazis ? The economical crash could disrupt that,because people have had enough. The few independent media are needed like never before,and should work together. But talking about the truth is a risk,you should be willing to take. The goal of this forum must once upon a time have been to help people,to prevent illness,and offer solutions. Nowadays that takes courage. And not a small amount. But then you make a difference,for Humanity,and Gaia... https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1651760237471232003

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2023 at 11:26pm

judeusx, welcome first of all !

Feel free to "do your own thing" if it is on herbal remedies, vaccines or whatever...I myself am surprised this forum is still here...neither I or KiwiMum owns this forum...

You end your last post with a link to twitter. Via that link one ends up in a discussion on Germany in the 30's....I do not believe in "absolute truths" there should always be a room for questions...on EVERYTHING...that is how we learn. 

This forum never was a place for "experts" but may have been a place for people trying to make up their minds...trying to form somewhat of an opinion (based on info/links welcome !)

For that matter this forum could have been taken over by some "cult" claiming only "their way is the right way"....It is not my role to tell someone else what or how to think...I am still learning a lot every day myself...sharing some of my ideas on this forum...

Since pandemics need a background-I have a (limited) history background-I also discuss the "background"...maybe a bit to much I admit...Without World War ! the Spanish Flu would not have gotten that major...the Black Death should be seen in its context...Refugees are humans-with human rights-but may also increase health risks...(Ukraine has a lot of health issues in the past...fur-farming still a major industry there as far as I know...). 

Spending trillions on wars resulted in record number of refugees and not enough money for healthcare...so-yes lots of aspects !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judeusx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2023 at 1:29am

Thanks Josh,no you are doing very well by posting about whats happening in the world,its all related (Ukr,biolabs etc).That was the most interesting thing when I looked back here !. Also your manner of presenting the virus updates is perfectly keeping the golden middle way,meanwhile softly pushing to look deeper. For a moderator and someone keeping the forum alive thats PERFECT. Yes "keep questioning" thats the holy grail . But thats forbidden nowadays. Started with the Charlie Abdu provocation.. As soon as you forbid only 1 question,all is lost. Could you or KiwiMum tell me a little bit more about the forum,who is the owner,what was and or is the goal,what you (plural)want with it,whats the structure now. How free you are in guiding it.Who are the most active members.Are there open minded still active "expert members" and or medical professionals. Are you promoting the forum in anyway,and who is the gatekeeper- forum master.Do you have backup domains. Did you ever have government or regulater interference. It used to be a good mix between experts and lets say preppers,when I first visited years ago. More open minded then all other forums about viruses etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2023 at 11:57pm

I did take half an hour to write a story on the Middle East/western political crisis...than the internet-link of this site failed...So-again-I should post/park my writings more often and then update...

I would love to see more activity on this forum ! 

Disagreements are basic...insults destroy this forum...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2023 at 8:57am

Again ! Once this was a forum with lots of info/views/discussion...

Now it is only me trying to make up my mind on (lots of) things...

-Was the Spanish Flu Pandemic a result of World War One or would the flu-virus be a major problem without such a war as well ? 

If it was the "background" that made the Spanish Flu that big (killing between 20 and 100 million people/2-5% of global population) what does it tell us on the ongoing healthcrisis and -now- lack of measures to contain it, denial-ism ? 

What do you think and why ? 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2024 at 1:10am

Meat production to maximize profits-to pay the banks-may bring very high risks for human/animal health. 

Here in NL two dogs did test positive for Blue Tongue Virus (BTV) widespread in sheep, cattle. Very likely those dogs did get the virus from eating an infected placenta...cheap nutritious food...
Maybe the dogs had a CoViD (asymptomatic ???) infection decreasing immunity ??? Dogs are NOT supposed to get BTV....

https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/?s=one+health ...Humans and other mammals/animals may share a lot of health risks.

CoViD has been detected in over 100 sorts of mammals. IF we want to control pandemics we need much better surveillance. 

Sharing/spreading info is -maybe- the most effective tool. That is why I joined the forum...

You all read this forum. There is a lot of good info on the internet. Summaries, translation into understandable words can be of great use ! 


just to name a few good sources-lots on X/twitter (I ignore the reactions) as well...

I do not own the forum-but I believe in sharing/informing ...also learn a lot by doing...

Over 98% of the forum activity the last month/year was done by me. I also try to include https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2024/03/co2-rise-is-accelerating.html ...
My "writing" on war did almost get half a million views since november....

If some of you, or people you know, would be willing to think of getting active (again) on https://www.avianflutalk.com/long-covid-in-cats_topic45460.html (well the forum...) it may result in a better forum, more info 


I do not have a science degree, just some functioning brain cells...English is not even "my language" (Dutch is !) 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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