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Doc’s prepared for flu pandemic |
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 Topic: Doc’s prepared for flu pandemicPosted: August 24 2006 at 6:46am |
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http://www.falkirktoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=927&ArticleID=1718319 Docs prepared for flu pandemic Health minister visits to review health service performance HEALTH professionals in Forth Valley are geared up to deal with pandemic flu whenever it occurs. The reassuring message was given to Minister Andy Kerr when he carried out the health board's annual performance review. Mr Kerr toured Stirling Royal Infirmary to meet staff and officials to discover how the board had dealt with issues during the last 12 months. Asking for details of preparations being made to handle any outbreak of pandemic flu, the Health Minister said it would prove a "substantial challenge as and when it occurs". He said: "It is my responsibility to work with officials from UK, Europe and the World Health Organisation and to ensure that everyone knows what they are doing – from WHO right through to medical staff in Falkirk." NHS Forth Valley chairman Ian Mullen gave a reassurance that everyone knew the part they had to play. He said: "I hope that when it happens in its most extreme form, all the preparations we have had will stand us in good stead. We have adopted a multi-agency approach to dealing and preparing for any flu epidemic and have given a considerable amount of thought to continuing to deliver public and other services during any outbreak." Fiona Mackenzie, the health board's chief executive, said staff had a "very real understanding" of what was required to deal with major incidents after having to handle several in the past. She added: "We are reasonably well prepared but not complacent. Our strategic group will be taking the plans forward." After hearing how the NHS board was dealing with service redesign in the run-up to the new hospital opening at Larbert in 2009, Mr Kerr said it was a difficult time but added: "There is a very strong sense that the board is moving forward and taking the people with them." Although he acknowledged there was work to do to reduce waiting times for cancer patients, the Minister was impressed that the new MRI scanner unit, which he officially opened at Falkirk Royal Infirmary earlier this year, had dramatically reduced the time patients had to wait for scans. Margaret Duffy, chief executive of the acute division, said before the unit opened people were waiting about 18 weeks to be seen. She added: "The target is nine but we're now sitting at about a three week wait." Mr Kerr said later: "I'm very pleased with what I've seen. There is a really positive mood around the place. They've hammered down waiting times but are also using new technology to revolutionise the patient journey which all suggest to me a vibrant health service." Mr Mullen said: "The review was hugely positive." 24 August 2006 |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 6:48am |
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He said" I hope when it happens in its most extreme form, all the preparing we have had will stand us in good stead" shudder me too !!!!!!
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 10:19am |
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I've quietly been polling friends of ours scattered across the US via e-mail who physicians for months now, since about late May and I can tell you that individual physician practices are NOT ready. They have, with only one exception in all I've spoken to so far, NOT secured extra supplies necessary for even a physical barrier from the disease, such as extra gloves, gowns, masks, tissue for exam beds, and meds. They're carrying the usual stock load and praying for the best or ignoring it altogether. What the public doesn't realize is that hospitals may be being pushed to prepare, but the individual offices ARE NOT. They're privately owned, or owned by corporations, and the state pressure for them to be ready is just not in place right now.
Not only that, but the training measures that hospitals are doing for their employees are not trickling down to the community physicians - even admitting physicians of those hospitals are being left out of the training exercises (such as they are.) I bet most physicians who would be polled across the country would agree if it hit tomorrow they are totally screwed.
I can't help but read things like this and just get totally depressed because it makes people smile and say to themselves, "Oh, it's not as bad as I thought, health care WILL be there, etc." and the reality is just the opposite. It's like gardener said in another post, our health care system is so unbelievably unprepared as to summarize it to say that it's a lost war before the first shot is even fired.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 10:33am |
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I bet most physicians who would be polled across the country would agree if it hit tomorrow they are totally screwed.
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add my small city to your list. They printed, we have 80 beds available for flu patients in a special area...as if that was a good thing? Or enough?
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 11:04am |
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499.13 Million needed for Indonesia's
Contingency Phase 4
(Home treatment, hospitalization, burying corpses)
(contingency phase 4 designed when entering phase 4 of Who pandemic phase)
Check out page 21 on this WHO document and you will see that they consider phase 4 to be very serious.
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Never2late
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Joined: April 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 11:05am |
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Seems to me that the passage of time is making the BF "old news." There was a big run-up with movies, the fed report, state grants, and Oprah all saying the BF was coming. Its not come. Lots of folks who were once very active on this site no longer post. I am done with my major prepping and don't need to worry about food, water, and shelter. I am now rotating and wondering whether the reason it hasn't mutated is because it can't. Sure, its possible that we'll have a 1918 recurrence...but that's been true since 1918. I have to ask myself why with all the new cases, and the occasional cluster, around the world there hasn't been a sustained H2H2H jump...just luck? And maybe its just holding back until winter...but isn't it winter in half the world all the time? Oh well.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 11:13am |
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I agree, it is a toss up when it could happen, but H5N1 is so widespread now that a larger opportunity is there. I am prepared. I think it is impossible to keep with the posting year after year. People will burn out from the bird flu topic posting...others will replace them or not.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 12:22pm |
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From WHO
Preparedness Level 3 Human transmission
confirmed This Preparedness
Level will exist when human transmission of the new virus subtype has been confirmed through clear evidence of person-to-person spread in the general population, such as secondary cases resulting from contact with an index case, with at least one outbreak lasting over a minimum two-week period in one country. Announce, with the help of its task force and
after international consultation, Preparedness Level 3.
Disseminate the case definition to be used in
surveillance for the new virus subtype. Facilitate the distribution to all interested manufacturers of candidate vaccine viruses developed as part of the Preparedness Level 2 activities. Convene its experts for influenza vaccine
composition to develop, disseminate and encourage coordinated clinical trials of vaccines against the new strain. Convene its experts for vaccine composition to
develop ways most likely to make vaccines widely available throughout the world. Enhance further its information dissemination to
provide timely reports on the status of investigations of the new virus, its spread, and the development of responses to it. Contact vaccine manufacturers and national
governments about capacity and plans for production and international distribution of a vaccine against the new virus. Encourage international coordination for
purchase and distribution of vaccine among different countries. Provide general guidelines to national health
authorities based on the best available information to assist individual countries that are determining their course of action. ..................................................
Confirmation of
onset of pandemic The onset of a new
pandemic will be declared when WHO has confirmed that a virus with a new hemagglutinin subtype compared to recent epidemic strains is beginning to cause several outbreaks in at least one country, and to have spread to other countries, with consistent disease patterns indicating that serious morbidity and mortality is likely in at least one segment of the population. Announce, with the help of its task force and after international consultation, the onset of a new influenza pandemic: Phase 1. Make recommendations for composition and use
(doses and schedules) of vaccines, and organize consultations that are intended to facilitate vaccine production and distribution in the most equitable manner possible. Issue guidance on the best use of available antiviral
drugs against the new virus. National response measures should be initiated
as rapidly as possible according to predetermined national pandemic plans, updated to take into account specific characteristics of the new subtype and knowledge of vaccine availability. Enhance further its monitoring and reporting of
the global spread and impact of the virus. Seek support in mobilization of resources for
countries with limited capacities through partnership with different organizations and international relief agencies. Work with Regional Offices as appropriate to
encourage common activities among nations facing similar challenges from the pandemic. |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 12:24pm |
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Never
I pray it never does happen ! however we have been told since the beginning not IF but When. For me personally if it never happens and I can't possible use all that I have set aside for my family I sure know a lot of homeless/womens shelters that can use the donations. To me that is a win win situation. |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 2:32pm |
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Everyone here is convinced beyond a doubt that this is going to happen, and none of my Dr.s not one out of seven thinks this is going to happen. They feel if it does it will mainly effect third world countries. I dont see how they can all be so off. Yet, I know our county has done pandemic practise runs. Maybe they are all just lying.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 4:47pm |
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Vstr
I am very lucky. My doc is also a very good personal friend works for Scripps/Ucsd medical center, when talking to michale on a personal note quite awhile ago, I asked him point blank what he thought if we would have a flu pandemic. His reply "it will be the avian flu, question is we dont know how badly it will hit or when, remember I was down durning the sars outbreak and its a perfect stew pot for this next break out,its all there just a matter of time." His statment put me into motion quite awhile ago. |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 5:22pm |
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I think they may be telling themselves it won't just because the awful truth is why go to work everyday and listen to people complain, toil day in, night and day again to get everyone healthy just to see half of them die? I think a lot of docs are going to ignore it as long as they can just for mental survival - but my husband is a doc and he says, yeah, it's likely, but he also has a rather pessimistic attitude of "we're all gonna die who's not on a respirator." There only only 105,000 for the whole USA and his opinion is if you're not on one, you're most likely going to die.
OK, I just want to address the concern here of wasted effort that was stated above, about why hasn't it happened since 1918? This current avian flu strain is genetically a "kissing cousin" of that 1918 virus. That's why the big concern. It has a higher likelihood of making a complete genetic jump to human than other strains of influenza and once (or if) it does, the second freak out is the overall deadliness of it - it's got a 53% mortality rate. HUGE mortality possibility for the entire human race. The current mortality rate will likely drop some if it makes the jump to human to human (historically the virus does that) but it will still likely remain higher than the 2-4% overall mortality rate that was experienced from the 1918 virus. ALL of that is why the big deal now over H5N1. Epidemiologist have studied the past three years and have seen a marked spike in the number of cases over that total three years in the months as it correlates to our "winter" months. (WHO had the report posted on it at one time, go read it.) They are anticipating a spike again this season, and the important thing about this is that every year more and more countries have been added to the list of infectious areas, more opportunities for this particular flu to perform the "swarm" technique that influenza is famous for. Every infectious opportunity, the virus sends out literally millions of genetic missiles of slightly different variations to see what "hits." Influenza is one of the neatest of all killers in that it's continuously seeking that direct hit. The reason why so many people are saying "It's not a matter of if, but when" is that they're expecting it to make that hit. And it would only take one hit, of just the right person in the wrong place at the wrong time and BAM, everyone would have it. If you've spent your money on a insurance policies, investing in preparation efforts for a pandemic is just another form of insurance.
For resource material, read John Barry's book, "The Great Influenza" as it's excellent in explaining why history may repeat itself. Everything mentioned above is in that book.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 5:44pm |
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vstr: what can they say? If they tell you this is going to happen and then they don't give you medicines to allow you to be ready, well..... Some of the docs I know have lost their hope already. My step daughter in med school says its not going to happen. If I mention obtaining meds like relenza or tami she says there will be time when its emergent and that isn't happening yet...good grief!
The other issue is that these professionals are human and subject to the same frailties and denial as everyone else. It is hard to wrap your mind around this one. I am surprised that I have. This is practically insurmountable, yet I am calm and cool. Realistically I know our plans in place may make it through one wave but certainly not three. But why do we give up? We should go down in a blaze of glory fighting this thing as best we can. Maybe, just maybe, some will make it. I am realistic. I know I will probably be one of the ones to die. I have asthma that only is stirred up after flu or severe colds. I catch every flu going and my theory is that because I am O positive (blood type) that makes me more susceptible. I would rather die in the thick of things trying to make a difference than quietly in some room isolated from humanity. If I make it I will be able to reflect and know I have done the absolute best I can. The only way that I can do this though is because I do not fear my own death. For me death is gain and this life is the only hell I will know. There is a lot of freedom in that. |
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 5:59pm |
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I think they may be telling themselves it won't just because the awful truth is why go to work everyday and listen to people complain, toil day in, night and day again to get everyone healthy just to see half of them die? I think a lot of docs are going to ignore it as long as they can just for mental survival
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This should have been more apparent to me when i asked my Doc about it and he gave it little attention...mental survival
thanks for that insight, 4abbie&maddie
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 6:30pm |
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You're welcome Anharra. I see how psychologically drained my husband is after dealing with expectant moms on meth, parents beating kids, grandparents falling and breaking hips, day in and day out the mental roller coaster of never knowing what will await him in the next exam room. Humanity is a vicious animal but physicians somehow work through trying to save us from ourselves. I'm just worried who's going to save them?
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Never2late
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 6:43pm |
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I too have a doctor friend and when I asked him what he thought he just said he didn't know if or when it might show up but if it did we are all screwed. For what its worth, my friend also thinks that we spent way too much of our precious medical talent and resources on keeping the elderly and terminal alive when we ought to be allowing nature to take its course. His view is if you are 75 and have a bad heart, its a shame for society to spend $100,000 (medicare) on a triple by-pass. Cost-benefit approach to life. I think we'll see a lot of cost-benefit medical treatment if the shtf.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 7:22pm |
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His view is if you are 75 and have a bad heart, its a shame for society to spend $100,000 (medicare) on a triple by-pass. Cost-benefit approach to life.
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I can understand that point in a universal sort of way... but, on a case by case basis it sucks. (wow, wild for me :)
See, my Father is going to be feted by the entire clan soon for his 80th b-day.
Last year he had a ....triple by pass. They said he was in good health (no scaring) and an excellent candidate. He himself mentioned the government paying for such a thing... he thinks they may not in the future.
I know it was like the very very last thing he wanted to put himself through. But he did it, we were there for him and it was "H" for the poor guy, what a champ!
We love him to death... My daughter hopes he will be able to see her children.
So, universally it makes sense to not pay for all that...but I'm so glad I'm livin in the USA
 damn the cost-benefit.This weekend we are all piling wood together.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 7:37pm |
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standingfirm: Get the Tamiflu. Seriously. Better to have it NOW. My husband made the comment that it didn't matter THEN who had it, in terms of pharmacies, as the gov will most likely confiscate it all for distribution at treatment centers to prevent hording. I am not a betting person, but I'll bet a million bugs if this hits, he's going to be right. You won't get it unless you're on the "list" as someone that should be eligible for it, and who knows exactly who's going to be deemed important enough for it then.
If you can get a prescription, there is a Canadian suppliers that sell it cheaper than US pharmacies. But try it here first as your insurance may pay for it (except your copay.) A Canadian supplier is http://www.canadadrugs.com/prescription/product/Tamiflu+75mg/1826/?REF=googleDrugProductsTamiflu&gclid=CNfwwsrhooUCFQOIHgodRV4x3Q
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 7:56pm |
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First of all, I think all of you who said they dont know what to say are correct. I think that the Docs like the rest of us are praying it does not. I am also sure that my lung Dr. is right when he says it will be much worse for third world countries. It is a fifty percent plus mortality rate IF you get exposed. If you dont get it, or make it through the first wave or second there maybe a vaccine. We may also find out that something really goofy helps with this. Such as the Chinese using Ginseng soup and some other things. Who knows. I als remember message boards and Dr.s a DR. Steve if I remember right, during Sars, that was convinced Sars was THE one. I admit that BF has killed many more and seems to be much worse at this stage.
The kind of DR. who thinks that we should not spend money to help a 75 year old, needs to answer that question again when he is 74. That type of person is talking about the elderly, but you can bet they dont see much value in people who are younger with chronic illness or retardation either. In this day and age, people who are in their seventies can be very active and far from dead. A company my husband worked for had a 84 year old CEO. He was and still is a genius. If medical science was as advanced as they think they are people should be living longer and longer and be more healthy all the time. That doc sounds a lot like Menegle did during WW2 only certain people have a right to expensive medical care. How much money do we spend on all types of disease that the outcome is usually death? How does he compare the worth of a 75 year old, who is active, married, maybe even to a sixty five year old, has children who love and need him, and grandchildren. The 75 year old may run a multi million dollar business that employs thousands and still have a lot of so called worth. Compare that to a 28 year old who is in prision for murder and rape, and has Aids and is still using dope in jail. I would pick the 75 year old any day. I get real nervous when people start talking the value of a life. Everyone should worry about a society that starts to put a price tag and tries to determine the value of ones life based on age, after all, we are none of us getting younger.
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lkay
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 7:58pm |
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Thanks standingfirm for your last post. I guess tonight I'm very tired (and sad) after this weeks news. I'm not use to feeling scared and so hopeless, but your post put things back in prospective for me. There has to be a great comfort in knowing what your final future will be. Sometimes I wonder if my fear of all this is my doubts about mine. Maybe I've been so busy "prepping" for food and water that I've lost tract of the really important preparing. God Bless You and us all.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 8:10pm |
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standingfirm: Another note about Tamiflu and "not getting it now because you can get it then." If you're worried about the ability to buy bread and basic supplies then, how does she think you'll have Tamiflu available? She's probably not thinking there'll be an economic collapse, they're basing their response to the previous flu seasons, most people have no concept of the overall devastation we'll be facing if this happens. We're accustomed to going to the bank for money, grocery store, etc. Why risk betting on having it available then when you have a guarantee it's available NOW. |
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Frisky
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 8:23pm |
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The way I try to explain the issue of whether we will have
an H5N1 pandemic in the near future is by using a statistical
analysis. For the past 300 years in any given year the probability of a
flu pandemic is over 3% and the probability of a major pandemic is 1%.
A major pandemic is what is called a low probability high impact event.
In most years there are no circulating flu strains that are likely to
cause a pandemic so the probability is much lower than the
baseline. In some years there is a circulating strain capable of
causing a pandemic and the probability goes up. From the 1978 to 1997
the probability of pandemic in any given year was low. The H5N1
flu showed up in Hong Kong in 1997 and changed the ball game. We had a
near miss that year. Starting in 2003 the near misses have started back
and have continued to recur. If we do have a pandemic with this virus
it will virtually certainly be a major one. As the virus spreads the
probability of pandemic can only increase. All of the mutations
required for this virus to go efficient H2H are present and all they
have to do is get together in the right circumstance. The probability
of pandemic in the next year has to be some multiple way above 3%. So
let us give it a probability of 20% and most of that would concentrate
in the late winter in the northern hemisphere. So the current situation
has changed to an intermediate short term risk and to high risk of
a major pandemic in the next 5 years if the virus remains
endemic. Currently the virus has become endemic in multiple areas of
the world and looks like it will be with us for a long time . If you
prepare it may be years before your preparation pays off but when the
warning goes out it will be way too late to do much. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 8:40pm |
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Are there many side effects to Tamiflu?
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 4:37am |
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If you've got a bad flu, the "side effect" of not taking it could be death. Why worry about upset stomach and headache when you're already running at both ends, have a temp of 105, and a headache that's making you scream? Those that died of it in 1918 and today are similar in that the absolute voracity of it overwhelms the body, lungs hemorrhage, liver, brain hemorrhage, you've got blood coming out of your ears, mouth and eyes. I am not exaggerating. Read Barry's book - it's graphic in one part where a military doc is writing a letter to a colleague begging for help and he's frantic about the morbid symptoms present. For Tamiflu to be effective, it needs to be taken within the first 24-48 hours. The only reason why they know it's got a shot to work is because they've done studies on mice, etc. and the mice improved with it, those without it died. The humans in Asia who've been given Tamiflu have mostly (I believe) fallen outside the effective time frame to get it - later than 48 hours.
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 10:45am |
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actually if you can down some liquid and or a tiny bit of food the side effects are not bad..and they have given out tons of tamiflu in most of the effected village maybe why there hasnt been more out breaks????
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 5:48pm |
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Since we don't know the side effects of Tamiflu
I decided to have a look and I found this-
................................................................................
Is Tamiflu Safe?
Read The Side Effects! Side-Effects - What to Watch Out For
This is the list of side-effects that Tamiflu can cause. You may not get any of these side-effects, but you may get some. While you are taking Tamiflu, these are the things you should watch out for: Aches and pains Allergic reactions sometimes leading to shock Asthma - aggravation of pre-existing asthma Bronchitis Chest infection Conjunctivitis Dermatitis Diarrhoea Difficulty sleeping Dizziness Ear infection Ear problems Erythema multiforme Headache Hepatitis Indigestion Liver problems Lymphadenopathy Nausea Nose bleed Rash or rashes Runny nose Sinusitis Stevens Johnson syndrome Symptoms of a cold Tiredness Tummy pain Urticaria Vomiting If you have any of the above, it may be due to the medicine. Read the Patient Information Leaflet that comes with your medicine for more information. If you did not get a Patient Information Leaflet with your medicine, ask your pharmacist for one. If you feel unwell or are worried, contact your prescriber, pharmacist or nurse at once. Do not waste any time if you feel very ill. Your prescriber may decide to change the dose or stop you from having this medicine again. If you cannot contact your prescriber, call NHS Direct on 0845 46 47. These are some ingredients in Tamiflu. Remember the amount of these things are going to accumulate as you dose. Some hospital workers may be taking tamiflu for longer periods of time and those with undiagnosed liver, kidney or other undiagnosed problems might be in danger of organ failure. Ingredients If you are allergic to anything that is listed below for your form of Tamiflu, or you have reacted badly to Tamiflu before, do not take Tamiflu. Talk to your prescriber, pharmacist or nurse at once and check that they still want you to have Tamiflu. Tamiflu 75mg capsules: Black iron oxide (E172) Croscarmellose Sodium FD and C Blue 2 (indigo carmine, E132) Gelatin Oseltamivir Povidone Pregelatinised maize starch Red iron oxide (E172) Shellac Sodium Stearyl Fumarate Talc Titanium dioxide (E171) Yellow iron oxide (E172) Tamiflu 12mg/ml oral suspension: Oseltamivir Saccharin sodium (E954) Sodium benzoate (E211) Sodium dihydrogen citrate (E331 (a)) Sorbitol (E420) Titanium dioxide (E171) Tutti Frutti flavour Maltodextrins (maize) Propylene glycol Arabic gum (E414) Natural identical flavouring substances(mainly consisting of banana, pineapple and peach flavour) Xantham gum (E415) Prescription Medicine Interactions The following medicines may interact with Tamiflu: Chlorpropamide Methotrexate Phenylbutazone If you are taking Tamiflu and one of the above medicines or type of medicines, talk to your prescriber, pharmacist, or nurse or NHS Direct on 0845 46 47. If you are not sure if your medicine belongs to one of these categories, talk to your prescriber of pharmacist. Read the Patient Information Leaflet that comes with your medicine for more information. Non-Prescription Medicine Interactions Tamiflu is not known to interact with any non-prescription medicines. As with any medication, whether prescription or over-the-counter, please have a complete physical and blood workup prior to commencing any medication regimen. This could save your life. http://medguides.medicines.org.uk/displaypage.aspx?t=medicine&i=61 Patricia Doyle Patricia A. Doyle, DVM, PhD- Bus Admin, Tropical Agricultural Economics Please visit my "Emerging Diseases" message board at: http://www.clickitnews.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php? Cat=&Board=emergingdiseases Also my new website: http://drpdoyle.tripod.com/ Zhan le Devlesa tai sastimasa Go with God and in Good Health |
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 6:04pm |
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Anharra - Thanks for the post. If you read any of the leaflets that come with any medication, it's a wonder that people take anything. When the drug companies are hyping the latest and greatest on TV commercials and have to list the possible side effects it makes me cringe. My personal pharmacy is Ibprofen and Sudafed for colds, however, I have to agree with 4abbie&mattie on this one - if I am sick enough I'd be willing to give it a try.
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Oisanatta
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 6:40pm |
------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the words of Joe Neubarth's past postings: .....November! Personally, I hope it never hits and my preps can also help out with the sheltered and homeless.....it's way too early to tell....and lots of other worldly news has been taking up the headlines and attention of folks.....but the Indonesia and other countries' BF events cannot be overlooked. |
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The only thing worse than a brutal lie is the brutal truth. (M Twain) I waited patiently for the LORD; He turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the pit; He set my feet on a rock. Psalm40
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Posted: August 25 2006 at 8:26pm |
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If you read any of the leaflets that come with any medication, it's a wonder that people take anything.
............................................................. I agree gghugs. I thought it good to post as few of us have any Tamiflu, and if we can't get any, we can say...it was scarey stuff.
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Never2late
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Joined: April 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 7:53am |
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I think my doctor friend has more compassion than the Doctor of Death. And he would have no problem with a 75, or even 100 year old, CEO or anyone of any age, get whatever health care they can pay for with their own funds or insurance. His complaint is that he sees, on a daily basis, people who are dieing...yes, dieing, from heart disease, lung disease, and just old age, but who can be kept alive using modern medicine for months if someone else will foot the bill. I suppose we have arrived at the point where there is a "right to expensive medical care" and certainly so long as we are a compassionate society we'll extend that "right" to all...My doctor friend just sees the consequences of that "right" in real life....
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 8:04am |
I don't have the $$ for Tamiflu. We are running $500 in the red every month and I have 2 jobs as well as my husband. We have a disabled son. We try but we have other meds that need to be purchased. I cannot get a script. My doc says that if I have flu symptoms she will prescribe it and I am not going to lie. Bet all the docs have tamiflu though. |
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PATB
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Joined: July 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 152 |
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Posted: August 26 2006 at 10:26am |
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Our primary updates us and discussed the preps...he said the office area will be in the courtyard and patients will be escorted depending on the illness into the rooms so not to cross contaminate. He has handout info sheets in a pile on his desk to give to each patient. I feel comfortable enough with the plans I offered some of my medical trainning and he of course accepted saying he has compiled a backup list of volunteers. I of course walked out with my Tamiflu. PatB
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Pat
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Posted: August 27 2006 at 11:23am |
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Please review the studies and research on how Avian develops resistance to all of our current anti-virals. Please consider how quickly resistant strains would develop were massive doses given. Without a vaccine or treament, no one, doctor or janitor is going to be able to treat Avian. Please provide an independent study not involved with main interests selling and manufacturing the drugs, proving the drugs are effective against ... what strain of Avian will it be - how can they possibly predict this... Avian It is only words.
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Posted: August 27 2006 at 1:19pm |
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Medclinician,
Glad to see you are back. I was frightened for some reason that you had signed off until it happens. Given the special events that are about to happen your life, I understand where your priorities would be elsewhere.
It was just such a complete 180 from before. Your willingness to get to the source to try and talk with Michael Osterholm, etc. I was wondering if something frightened you.
Your input is very much appreciated. I would appreciate it, if you could email me, my email is posted in my profile.
If you do not have the time I understand. At any rate, it's really good to have you back.
Wendy
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VtDoc
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Joined: March 31 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 240 |
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Posted: August 27 2006 at 4:16pm |
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Bet all the docs have tamiflu though.
I don't.
...Please consider how quickly resistant strains would develop were massive doses given. Without a vaccine or treament, no one, doctor or janitor is going to be able to treat Avian. Please provide an independent study not involved with main interests selling and manufacturing the drugs, proving the drugs are effective against ...
Clearly the benefit of treatment with current antivirals appears quite underwhelming. Less is known about prophylactic (preventative) use. Reliable studies on their use may well require that the exact viral strain is known, which it won't be until the pandemic strikes.
A clarification: in general, large doses of anti-infective agents are less likely to create resistance than low doses. Doses too low may allow survival and propagation of variants of the bug that have incomplete or inefficient resistance mechanisms. These variants may be able to mutate further to develop high-level resistance to the drug.
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 5:35am |
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 5:43am |
Very true VtDoc. In fact, you appreciate where we had problems was in Japan when they were given less than effective doses to children, also adjusting those doses by weight where they received even less.
Personally, I want to see Tamiflu work. From my sources for that to happen it must be given in a substantial large intitial dose and full course.
Persons buying it on the net and not taking a full course can prove to be a real problem.
As part of a cog in the machine, you know those of us who go to the front lines on this, military, medical, etc. will receive the "cocktail", the best of whatever they have and it might prove to be a little dangerous. I know when we were headed for Vietnam, we got hit on both sides armwise by mega pneumo shots and most of us were sitting in the grass for sometime outside the clinic, after.
Have posted research on how resistance can happen, but I am sure all of us would like to feel that we have something when properly administered that will work. There is a very old saying "It is better to light one candle, than curse the darkness."
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 6:05am |
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Anyone stocking Relenza to battle this horrible equalizer?
My true lack of regard for the professionals who have let me down in the past came through. A chink in the armor and I apologize heartily. The professionals here, and many more out there, did not deserve my attack. I apologize 
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 5:12pm |
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A lot of docs won't have the tamiflu because they won't admit it's something to be worried about. Admitting it's a concern to write it for themselves and their families is tantamount to admitting it's enough of a worry to BE worried about. I've also heard the argument from some on the fact that a pandemic will have multiple waves, so how much of this Tamiflu would even be effective to safeguard yourself, your family. So they don't even bother. I think you'd be really surprised at just how many medically oriented professionals won't have it on hand when it's needed.
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Posted: August 28 2006 at 7:27pm |
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More Tamiflu info...
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Posted: August 29 2006 at 4:09am |
I for one appreciate your passionate replies. They denote to me a deep concern with the situation, a humanity of caring, and some deep introspective thought on this from some unique perspectives. Feathers will be ruffled. None of our anti-virals is that terrific. Cut away all the industry related hype and political baggage, a serious mutation can shred either Tamiflu or Relenza. There is a lot of new hope in the vaccine world. As I said, I have been "keeping tabs" on about 30 companies all over who are working on things. They would be less than happy to have all of what they are doing put up on the network. They are very competitive in some instances and there is a huge money pie at the end of the pharmeceutical rainbow for the winner.
My best work, and findings, and information has been with scientists who are devising one of two things - simply put - vaccines from animals or specific substances that attack or make ineffective in some way part of the viral sequence which is COMMON to many viruses. This is the Holy Grail of vaccine research. It is a vaccine shotgun which even before H2N2 starts playing mutant tricks will kick it in the gut and ignore the mutations.
Pretty layman's terms here and the refined of the viral community will no doubt find this irksome (some will) and perhaps say it is over simplifying. Might even be said "You have no idea what you are talking about." I do.
My point :
People are doing something out there. I know about it. We have hope, so keep stacking the water bottles and prepping but we may beat this thing. The government (this is common sense) probably has considerable information at this point which has not been released. Going to have to live with that one. No jagged peaks in the stock market this week. After all look at the price of oil dropping like a stone. That is the way we like it - true.
No body stacks in the streets, at least none we can't handle for the present. It is very possible we could go Pandemic on several critters, and maybe have been. Thus the mind numbing realization - it is all a matter of semantics and politics.
The Wall Mart supply chain is still up and running. We had a plane blow up in Kentucky here. Some pilot just just wandered into the "there is no way you are going to get this size of plane to take off the ground in 3000 ft versus 7000 feet of runaway). Boom - 49 out of 50 have met their maker.
The government is in their a pitching and a trying and planning. A little secret here - we have the best scientists, equipment, and programs we have ever had in history. Shame India can't take some of the nuke money and build themselves a Class 3 lab to make vaccine instead of playing arms race with Pakistan. They have some answers we all could use, but we certainly cannot let them play with live virus without Bunny Suits and release it in the atmosphere - the virulent extremely dangerous strain that no one one wants to talk a lot about could get out and turn the Ganges into a morgue.
Keep at it Docs in all shape, forms, and maybe we can keep our species, or close to it, around another five million years.
Keep the faith. We (including all the little worker bees behind the scenes which get zero credit) are on it. There is hope. Keep praying, those of you who do, it is helping.
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Never2late wrote: