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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Will you take the 3 Flu shots?? - Event Date: May 06 2009 - June 06 2009

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Poll Question: Will you take the 3 Flu shots this fall?
Vote Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [19.57%]
7 [7.61%]
67 [72.83%]

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911Bob View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 06 2009 at 6:10am
I do not trust this. Angry
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Gimme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gimme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 7:54am
LOL ... not only No but HELL NO!  Not sure I want a shot at all... remembering the 70's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nettie4263 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 9:05am
I get a flu shot every year, and sure would take one in a pandemic.  They've come a long way since the 70's and learned what not to do....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfmanjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 9:07am
Originally posted by nettie4263 nettie4263 wrote:

I get a flu shot every year, and sure would take one in a pandemic.  They've come a long way since the 70's and learned what not to do....




http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus

The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 9:35am
I will take the regular flu mist. I'm not sure that we will be given the "opportunity" to receive the novel flu vaccine. The first TEST batch will not be ready until early Oct. Even if they decide to start vaccinations in Nov there will only be enough for 20% OF THE PEOPLE.
 
Dr d
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gimme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 10:21am
In 2006 all the drug companies were trying to find a vaccine for H5N1. 
Anyway during my internet searches I came across this clinical test apparently to help arthritis suffers or those with MS  or so the report goes:

http://www.naturalnews.com/019371.html

and this:
http://www.naturalnews.com/019818.html

and finally this:
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=205314&sectioncode=26

Then I read about other medications that more recently recalled or that they cause unintended side effects.
I am careful of anything medication or vaccines I get these days.  Currently I take medication for a seizure disorder.  For years my Dr. has tried to have me switch to
new medications... each time .. the new drug he suggested ended up getting recalled or a huge lettered black warnings of the side effects.
So absolutely no,  I won't get herded or scared into getting a new vaccine.  Maybe I am just being ignorant but that's how I feel.   I just don't trust drug companies anymore.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DANNYKELLEY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 2:56pm
I will pass!!!
WHAT TO DO????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercurymom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 3:49pm
NO, no, no, no, no 
Not for any of my family.
I will hunker down in my house for months, if I must. I do not trust pharmaceutical companies, nor vaccines. I have suffered terrible side effects, been contaminated by something that the FDA declared "safe", and taken recalled drugs. My son developed a mild form of Autism, after his childhood vaccines. I have had enough "experiences" to say no. I also got deathly sick, the only year in my life,  I ever took a flu shot.
No more.
There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings. ~ Dorothy Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 4:25pm

Mercurymom,

What type of mild form of autism? Mine has Asbergers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Annie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 6:01pm
No, Nope, Naw ya gotta be kiddin', no thanks.
Dense populations are going to be hit very hard by this pestiferousness little (flu virus) monster. "Technologist"
Stock 3 months water, food, weapon/ammo, meds, supplies, and some money at home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evergreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2009 at 11:32pm
In your dreams. D
235365 - Energy follows thought.   As you think, so you are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercurymom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 3:11am
Originally posted by Hotair Hotair wrote:

Mercurymom,

What type of mild form of autism? Mine has Asbergers.

 
Yes, mine does, too.
There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings. ~ Dorothy Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blueberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 4:06am
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but what are reasons that people will not take the flu shots?
 
Also, was there a problem with the swine vacc in the 70's?
 
Thanks. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote July Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 4:54am
Originally posted by Blueberry Blueberry wrote:

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but what are reasons that people will not take the flu shots?
 
Also, was there a problem with the swine vacc in the 70's?
 
Thanks. :)


1976: Fear of a great plague
By PAUL MICKLE / The Trentonian
On the cold afternoon of February 5, 1976, an Army recruit told his drill instructor at Fort Dix that he felt tired and weak but not sick enough to see military medics or skip a big training hike.

Within 24 hours, 19-year-old Pvt. David Lewis of Ashley Falls, Mass., was dead, killed by an influenza not seen since the plague of 1918-19, which took 500,000 American lives and 20 million worldwide.

Two weeks after the recruit's death, health officials disclosed to America that something called "swine flu" had killed Lewis and hospitalized four of his fellow soldiers at the Army base in Burlington County.

The ominous name of the flu alone was enough to touch off civilian fear of an epidemic. And government doctors knew from tests hastily conducted at Dix after Lewis' death that 500 soldiers had caught swine flu without falling ill.

Any flu able to reach that many people so fast was capable of becoming another worldwide plague, the doctors warned, raising these questions:

Does America mobilize for mass inoculations in time to have everybody ready for the next flu season? Or should the country wait to see if the new virus would, as they often do, get stronger to hit harder in the second year?

Thus was born what would become known to some medical historians as a fiasco and to others as perhaps the finest hour of America's public health bureaucracy.

Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.

According to his sister-in-law, John Kent of President Avenue in Lawrence went to his grave in 1997 believing the shot from the government had killed his first wife, Mary, long before her time.

Among other critics are Arthur M. Silverstein, whose book, "Pure Politics and Impure Science," suggests President Gerald Ford's desire to win the office on his own, as well as the influence of America's big drug manufacturers, figured into the decision to immunize all 220 million Americans.

Still, even the partisan who first branded Ford's program a fiasco, says now that it happened because America's public health establishment identified what easily could have been a new plague and mobilized to beat it amazingly well.

To understand the fear of the time you have to know something about the plague American soldiers seemed to bring home with them after fighting in Europe during World War I.

The Great Plague, as it came to be called, rivaled the horrid Black Death of medieval times in its ability to strike suddenly and take lives swiftly. In addition to the half million in America, it killed 20 million people around the world.

It got its name because it was a brand of flu usually found in domestic pigs and wild swine. It was long thought to have come, like so many flus, out of the Chinese farm country, where people and domestic pigs live closely together.

Recent research has shown, however, that the post-WWI flu was brought to Europe by American troops who had been based in the South before they went to war. Medical detectives, still working on the case in the 1990s, determined that a small group of our soldiers took swine flu to Europe and that it spread to the world from there.

How the swine flu got to Fort Dix in 1976 still hasn't been tracked down. At the time, Dix military doctors knew only that a killer flu had made it to the base and that they were lucky more men hadn't died or been sickened seriously.

Weeks after Lewis died, doctors from the Centers for Disease Control and other federal public health officials were meeting in Washington, trying to decide if they should recommend the government start a costly program of mass inoculations.



One doc later told the authors of "The Epidemic that Never Was" that he and others in on the meetings realized there was "nothing in this for the CDC except trouble," especially because a decision had to be made fast to get the immunizations manufactured by the fall.

"...The obvious thing to do was immunize everybody," the doctor said. "But if we tried to do that ... we might have to interrupt a hell of a lot of work on other diseases."

The doctors knew they faced complaints if the epidemic broke out and vaccines weren't ready, as well as criticism if they spent millions inoculating people for a plague that didn't happen.

"As for 'another 1918,' 1 didn't expect that," the doctor continued in the book. "But who could be sure? It would wreck us. Yet, if there weren't a pandemic, we'd be charged with wasting public money, crying wolf and causing all the inconvenience for nothing ... It was a no-win situation."

By mid-March, CDC Director Dr. David J. Sencer had lined up most of the medical establishment behind his plan to call on Ford to support a $135 million program of mass inoculation.

On March 24, one day after a surprise loss to Ronald Reagan in the North Carolina Republican presidential primary, Ford decided to make the announcement to the American public.

Congress still had to appropriate the money, of course, and that wasn't going to be easy. Even before official congressional consideration of the plan was taken up, there were forces arguing against it.

Another big hurdle was the drug makers, who were insisting the government take liability for any harmful side effects from the vaccine. During congressional hearings in the spring and early summer, lawmakers heard some naysayers who noted that the swine flu of last winter never got beyond Dix and that only one death had been reported.

The president and his experts prevailed, however, and on Aug. 12 Congress put up the money to get the job done. The mighty task was put into the hands of a charismatic 33-year-old physician for the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, Dr. W. Delano Meriwether, a world-class sprinter who still competed in track meets.

Now he was in a race for life, or so he thought. Meriwether was given until the end of the year to get all 220 million Americans inoculated against swine flu.

By Oct. 1, the makers had the serums ready and America's public health bureaucracy had lined up thousands of doctors, nurses and paramedics to give out the shots at medical centers, schools and firehouses across the nation.

Jim Florio, then an ambitious rookie Democratic congressman supporting Jimmy Carter for president, didn't use the situation to take a shot at Ford. He lined up and was the first Jersey resident to take the inoculation.

Within days, however, several people who had taken the shot fell seriously ill. On Oct. 12, three elderly people in the Pittsburgh area suffered heart attacks and died within hours of getting the shot, which led to suspension of the program in Pennsylvania.

Jersey pressed on with inoculations, however. Through the fall, even as more bad reports about the side effects of the vaccine came out, thousands of mostly older people in Greater Trenton lined up outside health centers, schools and firehouses to get the shot, sometimes waiting for an hour.

One of them was Lawrence's Mary Kent, a 45-year-old mother of two teenage boys who couldn't tie the ribbons on Christmas presents only days after she got her shot at the Trenton War Memorial in early December.

On Dec. 16, increasingly concerned about reports of the vaccine touching off neurological problems, especially rare Guillain-Barre syndrome, the government suspended the program, having inoculated 40 million people for a flu that never came.

By year's end, Jack Kent knew his wife was seriously ill and started reading all about the side effects of the president's flu inoculation, especially nerve problems like those his wife was experiencing.

Even before Mary Kent died an invalid at age 51 in January 1982, Kent had joined the hundreds of Americans who filed suit against the government on behalf of children left without a parent due to fatal side effects from the swine flu vaccine.

Kent's sister-in-law, also named Mary Kent, recalled the other day that Jack Kent died in 1997 still angrily blaming the government for giving his wife Guillian-Barre, leading to her death.

The swine flu case of 1976 forever reduced confidence in public health pronouncements from the government and helped foster cynicism about federal policy makers that continues to this day.

Citing the swine flu fiasco, for instance, one scholar recently authored a report suggesting the threat of AIDS has been similarly overblown.

Yet Joseph Califano, one of the earliest to use the word "fiasco" in describing the swine flu affair, came to the conclusion that it all couldn't have been avoided. Califano, whom President Carter appointed Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare after beating Ford in the November election, said the doctors had no choice but to err on the side of the caution.

In "The Epidemic That Never Was," Califano said that faced with the threat of another killer plague with the potential to end millions of lives, the doctors were right to seek an inoculation program.

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html

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Lessons learned from the 1976 swine flu 'fiasco'
By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
Former Health and Human Services secretary Michael Leavitt urged current Cabinet members last week to read The Swine Flu Affair: Decision-making on a Slippery Disease.

The Swine Flu Affair isn't an "instant book" rushed into print because of the worldwide outbreak of H1N1 flu: It was published in 1978, and its title refers to the swine flu of 1976, when public health officials urged all Americans to get immunized against an epidemic that never materialized. Dozens of Americans fell ill with a rare condition linked to the 1976 flu vaccine, and some died.


The ghosts of flu and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) both haunt and inform today's response to H1N1.

When it comes to controlling the flu, says Harvey Fineberg, co-author of The Swine Flu Affair, public health and political leaders seem to have learned that they can prepare to take action without prematurely committing to it.

Just because they've decided to develop an H1N1 vaccine doesn't mean they have to use it. As Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases noted last week, "there's a big difference between having it ready and distributing it."


The 1976 swine flu program was "overwhelmingly recalled as a 'fiasco,' a 'disaster,' or a 'tragedy,' " wrote Fineberg and co-author Richard Neustadt, the late founder of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

The government signed off on developing a vaccine and using it at the same time, without ever reassessing the need for immunizing against the unpredictable flu virus.

Specter of the 1918 pandemic

In January 1976, public health officials identified a handful of swine flu cases among new army recruits at Fort Dix, N.J. No subsequent cases of person-to-person swine flu transmission were reported anywhere in the world.

And yet, in March 1976, David Sencer, head of the Centers for Disease Control, wrote a memo comparing the outbreak to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, which killed at least 20 million worldwide. Sencer called for mass immunization. Less than two weeks later, President Ford announced he was recommending such a move.

"You can't overstate the specter of 1918 that was hovering in the background," says Fineberg, now president of the Institute of Medicine. "That was the worst natural cataclysm of the 20th century." In addition, he says, when the Hong Kong flu pandemic broke out in early fall 1957, "there was a sense that the vaccine came too late."

So the vaccine for the 1976-1977 flu season included swine flu, Fineberg says, "and the argument was 'Why store it on the shelf? Why not store it in people? Protect them already.' "

The first shots were given Oct. 1, 1976. By Dec. 14, 54 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves, causing paralysis, had been reported in 10 states. Thirty had received the swine flu shot in the month before symptoms appeared.

The government suspended the shots on Dec. 16, but not before 40 million Americans had received them. "The risk of developing Guillain-Barré syndrome seemed to be 11 times greater with vaccination than without," wrote Fineberg and Neustadt. Still, they noted, the risk was remote, about 1 in 105,000.

'Cooler heads are prevailing'

Joseph Califano, who became Jimmy Carter's Health, Education, and Welfare secretary in January 1977, asked Neustadt and Fineberg to investigate the swine flu program "in search of lessons for the future, not of fault in the past," as he writes in their book's introduction.

In an interview this week, though, Califano, chair of the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at New York's Columbia University, placed blame on Sencer. "The guy who was running the CDC wrote a scary memo that was like a gun to the head of the president," said Califano, who fired Sencer. Today, Califano says, "I think cooler heads are prevailing."

Barry Bloom, Fineberg's successor as Harvard School of Public Health dean, also praised public health officials' handling of H1N1: "The world is capable of creating a global alert without creating panic. That's a major difference from SARS." SARS first appeared in China in November 2002, but China didn't tell the World Health Organization until February 2003.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loribearme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 5:35am
they want to reduce the world population.   Think about it.  The CDC is called the Center for Disease Control - notice that they lost the "prevention" part.  The government along with FEMA are in a plot to start a pandemic - not prevent one.  
 
What are those prison camps FEMA has and mass coffins for?
 
Just in case??  Yeah right!  
 
Remember they are out to get the New World Order in place and it has a population number called "recommended population of people"  that number is SO low compared to n ow they would have to reduce 90% of people - some how???   well folks she show is over!
 
"come right up here and stand in line for your "free" flu shot"  - I will tell them not only "no thanks!  I'd rather stay alive, thank you"   but also, I would ask them to show me the film footage of the President, VP, all his staff, all of the CDC, WHO to stand in live and let us see live video first.    If they do not then I would say - don't expect me to be a sheep lining up for the slaughter."  and a F_ _ K to boot!!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doomsmom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 7:29am
My daughter had a flu shot when she was 17 and taking courses to be a CNA.  She developed Guillain Barre syndrome and was one seriously sick girl.  That also happened to people when they took the flu shot for swine flu.  She was advised by specialists to never take a flu shot again.  I do not get regular flu shots and will not get a flu shot if they develop one for H1N1.  No thanks folks.  Don't need any surprise diseases from a vaccine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spread_fear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 9:22am
I will take my chances with the flu.  I have taken flu shots in the past as it is manditory in the military.  When I get the flu shot, I get the damned flu.  For anyone who thinks getting the flu shot is a good idea, I feel sorry for you.  I am not being sarcastic this time either, I feel the flu shot is going to amplify the communicabilty of such a virus.  The flu shot is a live virus in poisonous chemicals to preserve said virus.  They are injecting poison right into your viens.  If you feel this is the solution to this flu problem, I beg you to please reconsider.  Please, please, please reconsider.  I am begging, not kidding at all.  DO NOT GET THE FLU SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You are asking for it by name by getting the shot, just don't do it.  Cling to your life if you must but I would not put my life in the hands of others for them to maniputlate,  Just my thoughts on the shot are not happy ones but I see I am not alone.  The Fear is Here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 9:25am
No flu shots for me!!
Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spread_fear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 9:27am
Loribearme, I failed to read your post before writing mine.  You hit the nail on the head and drove it into the wood on the first strike.  Are you a fan of Mr. Icke?  He is right you know.  You are right.  Prepare for the end of all things to come is here.  -FEAR-
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 2:21pm
No for me. Last one I had was about 10+ years ago and I've been ok. I have a wholesale distrust of the drug companies especially after seeing my 60 and over friends fight with the endless chain of medicines to fight side effects. Plus, very rarely do they get the annual flu shot right. And I do not want any flu or anything made from blood of peolple with the flu introduced into my body.
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Originally posted by spread_fear spread_fear wrote:

Loribearme, I failed to read your post before writing mine.  You hit the nail on the head and drove it into the wood on the first strike.  Are you a fan of Mr. Icke?  He is right you know.  You are right.  Prepare for the end of all things to come is here.  -FEAR-
 
I read/watch David Icke. I also read his forum from time to time. I saw your post and it reminded me to go over and read it. There is a thread called "Bio Attack Coming Soon", and it was started quite awhile back, and I'm finding it some interesting reading. There are people posting in this thread saying they had the flu symptoms for months, people from all over...saying that they and everyone they knew were sick, and some of these were posted March 9!?!??! It was going around here, then, too!!!
 
I also saw someone post a link to this article in the UK
 

Flu pandemic 'could kill up to one in 80'

Monday, April 06, 2009, 07:30
 

HEALTH bosses are preparing for a massive flu outbreak that they fear could kill up to one in 80 people in Derbyshire.

Medical gowns and masks have been stockpiled and plans are in place to give information and drugs to the public to stop the spread of the killer disease.

Experts fear a 15-week pandemic could kill 12,000 people in the county.

And while children and the elderly are normally worst-hit by seasonal flu, a pandemic virus would be strong enough to kill healthy people.

Businesses can expect half of their employees to fall ill.

According to the World Health Organisation, the threat of bird flu mutating so that it can be easily passed from person to person means there is a greater risk of a pandemic now than at any time since the last outbreak in 1968.

Mike Sandys, of NHS Derby City, said: "It's a question of when it happens and not if. We're going to get an outbreak sooner or later. And when it happens, it will have a big impact on the health service and society in general."

 
 
There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings. ~ Dorothy Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2009 at 8:33pm
Nettie's comment; "I get a flu shot every year, and sure would take one in a pandemic.  They've come a long way since the 70's and learned what not to do.... "
 
My response to the comment above:
If they know so much then how did Baxter end up with H5N1 in its vaccine?
 
One has to have blind faith to trust getting an injection these days.
 
 
"Baxter claims the vaccine was not for human use."
 
"The circumstances of the contamination were a unique combination of process, technical and human errors. "
 
"Deerfield, IL-based Baxter International has confirmed that vaccine shipments sent to subcontractors in Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany were contaminated with live H5N1 avian flu viruses. "
 
 
"The virus material was supposed to contain a seasonal flu virus and was contaminated after “human error,” said Christopher Bona, a spokesman for Baxter, in a telephone interview."
 
Is there NO QUALITY CONTROL AT BAXTER? 
 
 
 
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