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Gas concentrations ,new record high

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carbon20 View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 22 2018 at 2:16am
I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Climate change: Warming gas concentrations at new record high - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46289829
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2018 at 6:07pm
I've griped about rising CFC concentrations for years, and finally my suspicion that China is to blame is being confirmed in the media:

Under the 1987 Montreal Protocol, the global agreement to protect the ozone layer, CFC-11 was supposed to be phased out of production.
Instead researchers have seen a marked slowdown in reductions in the level of this gas, indicating that someone, somewhere is making new batches.
Earlier this year, the Environmental Investigation Agency traced CFC-11 production to a number of factories across China.


Chinese Death Star is still at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2018 at 1:03am
The increases in (all kind of) gas-concentrations are (another) nightmare scenario unfolding.

When China could be held responsible for (a part of) the increase of CFC (and there are many indications for that) it would be good when there is an international bases for talking with China.

It is good international organizations like the World Meteo Organization still exist. The US (or "west") is not in any position to have decent talks with many other countries. (The US getting out of the Paris agreement, Australia, possibly Canada, some EU countries, Brazil maybe considering the same is sabotaging any realistic international solution.)

The transportation of old fridges etc. from "the west" to Africa, possibly India, could also explain (some) of the increase of CFC's. It is important to find the problems before coming with solutions, certainly with the (insane) present international relations.

(https://www.facebook.com/JoseBarbaNueva did mention China experimenting with Ebola-virusses both in China and Central Africa. The US has been related to bio-weapons research in West Africa and former Soviet Georgia.)

There have been several major earthquakes near Svalbard/Arctic-wich brought methane-release.

Developments are speeding up in the wrong direction.....

(This brings several kind of doomsday-scenarios https://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2018/11/guy-mcpjerson-interviewed-11212018.html with global disaster somewere between less than 1 year (massive methane release) to "a few decades" at best. The IPCC is a political instrument more in the way for dealing with climate change than helping getting a job done.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2018 at 12:59pm
well said Dutch Josh

every time anyone switch's a light on ,use's a car ,cooks a meal we add to climate change gases,

that's the problem,

what is the answer ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2018 at 1:02pm
Climate change: Report warns of growing impact on US life
30 minutes ago

The report warns that the frequency of wildfires could increase if climate change is unchecked
Unchecked climate change will cost the US hundreds of billions of dollars and damage human health and quality of life, a US government report warns.

"Future risks from climate change depend... on decisions made today," the 4th National Climate Assessment says.

The report says climate change is "presenting growing challenges to human health and safety, quality of life, and the rate of economic growth".

The warning is at odds with the Trump administration's fossil fuels agenda.

The world's leading scientists agree that climate change is human-induced and warn that natural fluctuations in temperature are being exacerbated by human activity.

'Hundreds of billions'
The US climate assessment - compiled with help from numerous US government agencies and departments - outlines the prospective impacts of climate change across every sector of American society.

"With continued growth in emissions at historic rates, annual losses in some economic sectors are projected to reach hundreds of billions of dollars by the end of the century - more than the current gross domestic product (GDP) of many US states," the report says.

The report notes that the effects of climate change are already being felt in communities across the country, including more frequent and intense extreme weather and climate-related events.

ADVERTISEMENT

But it says that projections of future catastrophe could change if society works to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and "to adapt to the changes that will occur".


Media captionClimate change: How 1.5C could change the world
What does President Trump say about climate change?
In October, President Trump accused climate change scientists of having a "political agenda", telling Fox News he was unconvinced that humans were responsible for the earth's rising temperatures.

After taking office he announced the US would withdraw from the Paris climate change agreement, which commits another 187 other countries to keeping rising global temperatures "well below" 2C above pre-industrial levels.

At the time, Mr Trump said he wanted to negotiate a new "fair" deal that would not disadvantage US businesses and workers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2018 at 1:19pm
Per Capita ,

Australian is one of the worst polluters on the planet,

we are only 25 million people!!!

people laugh at me when i say ,

a time will come when we cant have a car ,electricity will be rationed ,and maybe you can take a plane flight once every 5/10 years

that is the reality of it as i see it ,

unless something "culls" the most successful animal on the planet, US!!!!!

Soylent Green awaits...........



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2018 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Per Capita ,

Australian is one of the worst polluters on the planet,

we are only 25 million people!!!

people laugh at me when i say ,

a time will come when we cant have a car ,electricity will be rationed ,and maybe you can take a plane flight once every 5/10 years

that is the reality of it as i see it ,

unless something "culls" the most successful animal on the planet, US!!!!!

Soylent Green awaits...........





We have been shown the future.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2gVXd7FzhQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2018 at 4:42am
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50659.htm, http://www.thebigwobble.org/2018/11/global-warming-mini-ice-rage-goes-on.html

Add this http://www.thebigwobble.org/2018/11/kilometers-beneath-ice-of-antarctica.html to the story-unforseen extra's speeding up the proces.

Robert Scribler on this latest report; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y81wIly8TU

DJ-"Paris" was a political "show" not related to reality-and not able to solve anything but meant to buy time for the "political sponsors".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2018 at 2:01pm
Realisticly what is the answer,

They stopped handing out FREE PLASTIC BAGS in food stores here in Australia,

There was a huge outcry, people found it all a bit too hard,

Imagine telling people mainly in the west,

Sorry you can't use your car to get to the railway 2 kilometers
Away,you'll have to walk..... And all that I said in above post,

There would be very much civil unrest,

I mean realisticly ,what use to the planet is,

A bunch of men running around a sports field,chasing a ball,while thousands of people travel millions of miles all round the planet,use countless tons of coal to power all the
TV's to watch THE GAME whatever the sport....

What possible use to mankind is it, all I see is as huge waste of a resource's that is not replaceable.

When Koyoto in 1997 came out,i thought how do I cut my greenhouse gases by 50% .the only answer I could come up with,

Was to stay at home 3.5 days of the week not using or doing anything,not cooking, watching TV,not even going to the toilet,

If anyone can come up with a different scenario ,please let me know.....

The situation is DIRE....

meanwhile I'll just get back to the Netflix show I was watching on TV,having a cup of tea and a cake, on my day off work.

I'm Realist,i have advised my kids,im 61 years old, might last another 20 if I lucky,

Que sera,



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2018 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:



If anyone can come up with a different scenario ,please let me know.....


The only hope is a rapid & deep de-carbonization of the economy and atmosphere. The technology exists to do this, and some creative schemes allow for conversion of carbon dioxide into fuels, organic chemicals and all sorts of useful materials.

In other words, put a bounty on the stuff. Incentivize the capture of carbon molecules, aggressively. That is the only way.

Going in this direction is the only hope. The French have tried to raise fuel taxes, as have the Aussies, and this has only led to widespread chaos and political upheaval.

Sorry, I am 63 and not all that hopeful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2018 at 10:17pm
My kids and I worked on a project a few weeks ago tackling this exact scenario and we came up with the answer: Rationing.

After all our research and discussions we realised that no one in the Western world is going to restrict their own behaviour but they will all want to restrict other people's behaviour. Afterall, we all want rules to control everyone else but want to be exempt from them ourselves. And the people in the 3rd world aspire to our standard of living and who are we to deny them?

Eventually the only solution will be rationing. Electricity will be rationed to a few hours a day per district, water will be rationed to x number of litres per person, as will fuel such as petrol and diesel. If you forgo your petrol allowance because you have an electric car, then you will get an extra electricity allowance to power it.

We also felt that people will receive ration books to curb general consumption of household goods and electronic devices. And clothes and shoes. Also we felt that food miles would become key and here in NZ we might see the end of imported items like bananas and things like coffee and chocolate would carry huge taxes.

One things for certain however, if and when rationing is introduced, it will have to be enforced to the extent that it was in the UK during WW2 and there can be no exception for the rich or there will be civil wars and anarchy.

We also feel that a housing allocation of a set space per person would be introduced so that after a certain date, any house up for sale would be decreed to be suitable for, say, 18 people and then if a family of 4 wanted to buy it, a section would be portioned off for them and the rest of the property marketed until it was all fully utilized. My children thought 20 sq m per person. Obviously this couldn't be applied to people living in their homes already but when that house next comes onto the market then it could be enforced.

People are not going to like these ideas but they won't have a choice.

But there's the solution. The problem with it is that who ever proposes it will be committing political suicide. It will only be introduced as a world wide thing by all governments after something truly shocking occurs that forces everyone's hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2018 at 9:09am
That actually makes considerable sense.

Oddly during the rationing of WWII, the Brits uninjured by the war were the healthiest they had ever been. The poorest for once had enough and the richest did not have too much.

Politically, it might not be complete suicide. Our PM had an impossible job with brexit. Yet one by one, her opposition has fallen and the agreement she has been chasing (Hey everyone, Lets share and compromise!) is passing each milestone on its way by a whisper. It is not by any means certain, but a year ago I would have given its chances of success as a billion to one against - or even higher.

I wholeheartedly agree, it will take a few more nasty shocks before anyone will dare suggest it, but global rationing will probably be the way we go.

Soylent green anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2018 at 7:40pm
The reason I think it would be political suicide is simply that whilst everyone will agree it's a great idea, no one will want it to apply to them. When the PM says that each person will be rationed to 5 Litres of petrol a week, everyone will say fine, but I need more than that because ............. fill in your own reason for special treatment. When they realise that will not be forthcoming, they'll vote against it.

People will always vote for what's best for them and whilst they might be prepared to put up with a little bit of inconvenience to save the planet, they won't put up with an imposed life changing alteration to the status quo without being forced to do so.

Perhaps what we need is for some of the major ice shelves to collapse in Antarctica thereby releasing the glaciers into the sea and thus causing a rapid sea level rise that would inundate all the coastal cities of the world. We'd only need 3 or 4 metres to change life as we know it.
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2018 at 10:29pm
I highly recommend reading this entire article! As a scientist who has worked in greenhouse gas mitigation since the 1980s, I am up to speed with all of the latest technologies including geoengineering schemes, carbon capture & sequestration, biofuels etc.

The planet's atmosphere is basically ruined, it would take a massive global effort to undo this damage. I've tried to be optimistic, but as Kiwi Mum points out, any politician who advocates for the hard choices is committing suicide.

"An earlier Pew survey from 2015 posed a starker contrast, by asking whether addressing climate change will require “major changes” to the way people live, or whether technology can solve the problem without major changes being required. Although most (66 percent) acknowledged that major changes will be necessary, fully 23 percent indicated that technology will solve climate change without major changes required.

Put differently, nearly a quarter of the U.S. public seem to be betting that technology, and technology alone, will save us — the dangerous implication being that there’s no need to adopt lifestyle changes that are virtually guaranteed to reduce our carbon footprint, such as traveling less and eating less meat. After all, if the experts will invent a solution tomorrow, why should we sacrifice today? "https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/418130-what-if-theres-no-climate-change-pill-to-save-us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2018 at 10:35pm
Given the politics of rationing, I think that at first most politicians will go with the informal market rationing of goods by use of the price mechanism (ie let the prices rise and so dampen demand).

Only when this becomes Obviously grossly unfair will the politicians then bow to pressure to bring in formal rationing.

However, before formal rationing comes in there many be a move to cap price rises, but the historic effect of doing that is to take more goods from the market (as it is not worth people making/transporting/selling at a loss), and/or saddling the government with much more debt (ie from extra subsidies).    

In other words, pandering to keep the population happy enough to re-elect the politicians is likely to make a bad situation worse.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2018 at 2:20am
The trouble is that the changes that are needed will have to be so draconian that they will make even the most ardent eco warrior who has any semblance of a social life blanch.

My family and I live totally off grid, with stand alone sewage, electricity and deep level water supply. We keep two milking cows and produce all our own proteins on our farm, and we grow a good proportion of our vegetables, but still we spend a fortune weekly on chocolate, bananas, citrus, tea, coffee and good wine. We distill hard liquor but still buy French brandy and a Irish whiskey.

We buy second hand clothes that have hardly been worn, but expensive shoes because I think that's important. And we travel. Not often, but i'm just about to travel to Europe and back. So even though we are better placed than most, I'd still struggle with rationing. It would impact on my way of life and I'd grieve for the things I was suddenly denied.

For most people it's the little luxuries that they take for granted that makes life bearable. The latte after the gym, the cheap but new clothes that they wear a few times and then chuck out, the privacy of not sharing a car on the way to work, the luxury of air con on a hot day and heating on a slightly chilly one. All these things would be gone and what are you left with? The hard grind of earning a living and robbing Peter to pay Paul.

However they do it, or however or whenever it happens, there will be riots and social disorder. Can you imagine a Christmas with fairy lights, a new party dress, only locally hand made toys with no wrapping paper, no conspicuous consumption or largesse? No parties? That's where we're heading. It will take the Western world at least a long time to rediscover joy that is not linked with consumption or status symbols.
Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2018 at 5:33am
I used to have to rob Peter to pay Paul; no more, but I juggle anyway to get better deals (not poor just mean!). I too live mostly off grid, although we still need a lot of agricultural equipment before self sufficiency becomes a real option.

Ok, so this was my choice, but I really don't miss the trappings of civilization. My daughter just tired of the novelty of the big city and has chosen to come home - so I am probably not all that wierd. The main problems with returning to a simpler life for most people is one of expectation. I am astonished by the whole concept of "Keeping up with the Kardashians" or any other celebrity for that matter. But that is what people have been conditioned to do. Our media, services and (most horribly) governments are training people to be ever greater consumers.

Untrain them! Start now! Don't wear Prada - wear Oxfam! Don't pay for a gym - cycle to work and dig a garden/alotment! Don't applaud the best bling - but the best conservation! Fashion is not attractive - it is proof of wanton destruction - pretty brainless wanton destruction in fact!

OK, air conditioning may be a bit harder to render unattractive, but the admen who made bell bottoms and boob tubes desirable should (based on those efforts) be able to sell the public 'sweating for your conscience' or similar.

I am not claiming this solves all problems - simply stating it can be done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2018 at 2:05pm
whatever mankind chooses what to do someone will be put out of a job,that means no food on the table,

it's not going to happen.............

and when the S..t really hits the fan ,the mass of population has been dumbed down that much they wont have a clue,

most kids now a days would not be able to light a fire ,

never mind knit and make clothes ,

just watch what people buy in the food store ,most can't cook,

fast food and hooked on TV that is just garbage,

how can you expect the morons that watch the drivel to get their heads around the fact the earth is in big trouble,

ITS ALL FAKE NEWS.........so donald the Clown says......

lets get some more BLING....like the rest of the MORONS........

the ZOMBIES are all around us...........watching the kardashes

rationing is a good way to cut back on usage,

but how does that work when power companies need to sell more power to make a profit for their investors,



all power generation needs to be state run , you are allowed X amount of kilowatts a year,



no more gold Jewellery or bling,

the waste involved in this industry is mindless,

all transport needs to be taken over by the State,

all airlines need to stop non essential flights (like going to see your team play)..........

oh dear sounds like communinsum.............

stuff that i'd rather see Billions dying on a dying planet...........

says them the hav'nt a clue









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