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Harold Charles "Hal" Turner is an American far-right political commentator from North Bergen, New Jersey. Turner's viewpoints typically encompass Holocaust denial, conspiracy theory, white supremacy, and have included calls for assassination of government officials. Wikipedia 

Oh yeah.  That's a trustworthy news site....

Perhaps instead of watching a Youtube video of someone who may not be who she says she is and admits to not being on the front lines and is repeating hearsay.  

And for what it's worth NYC IS using rapid result tests.  We have been for weeks now.  

I can't abide by fake news.   Particularly when it isn't actually news.  

The daily mail is on par with the national inquirer.  

Google-translation from [url]https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/jan-is-ic-arts-in-new-york-als-je-geen-geld-hebt-ben-je-hier-de-pineut~a64d96aa/[/url]

Jan is an IC-doctor in New York: "If you don't have money, you're screwed here"
In New York, IC doctor Jan Bakker is surprised about hospitals that provide senseless care in the middle of a corona hotspot. "It is everyone for himself and God for all of us."

The first emergency ICs will be closed again, says IC doctor Jan Bakker in the elevator of the University Langone hospital in the heart of New York. Here too things are slowly but surely going in the right direction. Fewer new sick, fewer new deaths. But the city already lost at least 11,000 of its 8 million inhabitants. How can a virus so household in the home of the top of the medical world?

It is teeming with people like Jan Bakker (62), professor of intensive care, who was brought to the prestigious Columbia University from Erasmus MC in Rotterdam and who has also been treating patients for a year now at the Langone hospital affiliated with New York University. “What this crisis has made clear is that the US health care system is pretty much the worst system we know in the developed world. It is best if you have money and want to get any treatment you can until your last breath. But if you don't have anything, you are really screwed. "

Run and fly

It is best if you have money and want to get every possible treatment until your last breath

Jan Bakker

From his department, Bakker has a view of the East River and the borough that is opposite, Queens, where the largest sources of fire are located. While some nurses there feared for their lives due to lack of face masks, Bakker went to work with a reasonable peace of mind. Yes, it was running and flying, when suddenly two hundred IC beds were full, instead of 24, but things were reasonably under control. And they still have more than enough masks in this rich hospital for well-insured New Yorkers.

Bakker also runs services at the Bellevue Public City Hospital just down the road, dealing with a completely different group of Americans - those with untreated health issues. He admits patients who only inject insulin twice a week, because they have no money for a daily dose. "When you get Covid, you start with a backlog, of course."

Protests

The oldest patient we put on a ventilator here was 99 years old

Jan Bakker

,, There is a lot wrong with the protests against lockdowns here, especially when you look at the financiers behind it, but I understand that people take to the streets. Because from the moment it was announced that they were no longer allowed to work and were therefore fired, they had no health insurance and no income. Then you hear: I'm lucky, because I got two extra weeks of health insurance. You have to be grateful for that as a douce - that it doesn't end immediately in the afternoon. "

All that inequality is bothering him. But the most difficult, says Bakker, were the "meaningless" treatments. “The oldest patient we put on a ventilator here was 99 years old. From a Dutch perspective, that is simply outrageous. You can't make that, we say. Luckily, she passed away a few hours later. "" Luckily, yes - that's how he sees it. Because a patient who has no perspective will be damaged by catheters in veins and a tube in the windpipe, without any result.

Postpone death
“Some of them die here for a week. I've had a number of patients everyone said was hopeless. But the treatment is only being extended. All you are doing is postponing death. That is very difficult, especially because it is not negotiable. "

"I finally said to a family: I am not willing to do what you want, because your husband, your father is not a guinea pig. But you never know, they said. Well, before that I studied for sixteen years, and I have been an intensivist for twenty years now. Then you get the answer: we also know a lot, because we read many articles. They wanted to give him antibodies and were willing to buy them and deliver them to the doorman. "

American mentality
All you are doing is postponing death

Jan Bakker

Bakker has accepted it as the American mentality. As long as there is a chance, no matter how small, everything is pulled out of the closet. No longer offering artificial respiration? That is considered paternalistic. People find it very confronting here that Bakker starts directly about the end of life. ("But all families with whom I communicated in the Dutch way that it would not work anymore, came by to thank me for being so honest"). Commercial interests also play a part - no American hospital wants to be known after the corona crisis as the hospital where not everything is done, because the wealthy patients with generous insurers must continue to come.

It stands in the way of cooperation. Bakker proposed in the public hospital to contact the top institutions of the city, as in the Netherlands, to distribute patients among different hospitals and to relieve the pressure. "Then there was a long silence, and they chuckled. Yes, nice idea, we are not going to put any energy in that, because it will not work. We're struggling enough, they said, to make sure they don't hijack our nurses. They offer more salary than we do. "

Squeeze the hands
Be very happy with the Dutch care

Jan Bakker

The beauty of working in America, Bakker thinks, is the expertise of doctors who perform the same treatment so often that they have become stars in it. The big problem, he says, "is that it is everyone here for himself and God for all of us." The Dutch are allowed to squeeze their hands with their health care system and "one of the most advanced IC models in the world," he notes.

The operation of an American IC would never be approved by the Dutch inspectorate, Bakker thinks. He would not yet be admitted to the IC affiliate of his own Columbia University. ,, Be very happy with the Dutch care. When I was just working on Columbia IC, they asked there: what do you think? Well, I said, it's a mess. Huge noise. Everything is open, there are only curtains. And all those announcements about the intercom phone for doctor who, phone for doctor who. If I need a heart valve, it needs to be sewn in here, but then an airplane is ready to fly to Rotterdam as soon as possible the next day. "

Why I have my own Chloroquine, I can get Zpack from my doc and instructions on how to take the Chloroquine.  I believe it works at least when you first get sick worth trying!  I also have my own Oxygen concentrator!   I will not be with out Oxygen in this mess!

Dutch Josh wrote: Google-translation from [url]https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/jan-is-ic-arts-in-new-york-als-je-geen-geld-hebt-ben-je-hier-de-pineut~a64d96aa/[/url]

That's a completely different conversation, DJ, from the one you posted based on fake news you posted from a youtube video.

WitchMisspelled-did you see the video ? DJ-Spain has 510 deaths per million, 4965-almost 5000 tested cases per million. [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/url] When I look at New York State numbers; 1180 deaths, 15.366 tested cases per millions. 

The video showed someone describing a hospital that is overrun-can no longer deal with the outbreak. The interview with the Dutch doctor shows a lack of cooperation between hospitals in NYC. 

The numbers remind me of [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina[/url], [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria_death_toll_controversy[/url] .

Disaster management may not be best organized in the US ? 

(I do believe almost all nurses, doctors etc. do the best they can in this situation. But when you are exhausted, getting depressed-you may no longer be able to function the way you should-as a person AND as an organization.)

I think a lot of people like to try to be armchair quarterbacks. When they don't get to run things to their liking, they criticize the choices of others, whether they understand them or not.  

You can compare numbers out of context and say whatever you like.  If you really compare how New York state is doing, you count how many people they are keeping alive, not how many have died.  By my calculations the CFR in New York stands at about 8 percent.  They also have the integrity to count the probable cases in their case numbers, as well as their deaths.  By comparison, Netherlands CFR stands at nearly 12 percent.  

Seems to me we have a cultural difference in the way we treat life and death.  Doesn't mean our way or the Dutch way is better.  It's a matter of cultural values.

  I know a paramedic who told me his philosophy regarding lifesaving heroics.  He gives it his all, every single time, even when he knows there will be a poor outcome.  Why?  If he can keep his patient alive long enough, the family might get the chance to say goodbye.  That goodbye is something you can't put a price on.  Even if the goodbye is only in your heart after a long struggle or even over facetime, it is priceless. And every once in a while, someone beats the odds.   Whether to try for that chance is a deeply personal choice best made by the patient and family.  How can a doctor know what financial sacrifices a person or family is willing to make for that chance?

I was not afforded that choice or the goodbye for my husband, but I have had other loved ones beat the odds.  I don't want doctors or insurance companies making choices like that for the people I love.  This is a different circumstance because of the lack of capacity.  I get it.  Yet, doctors from other cultures seem rather paternalistic when they fail to grasp cultural differences in their criticisms.

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/health/no-your-city-isnt-two-weeks-behind-new-york-covid-19-deaths[/url]

Measured in deaths per 100,000 of population, New York (114 per 100,000) and New Jersey (66 per 100,000) had the highest rates. But New York had the worst rate by far.

New York's deaths per 100,000 soar above all other states, are double that of Massachusetts, and more than seven times that of Maryland and Pennsylvania.

The difference becomes even more stark as we move west and south. New York's death rate is now 22 times as large as Florida's and 25 times that of Alabama.

-

The real question we should be asking ourselves is why New York is such a mess in terms of COVID-19. New York's deaths aren't just high by US standards.The state's total deaths per 100,000 are higher than both Spain and Italy, both of which are considered to be among the most hard-hit countries on earth. New York has reported nearly as many COVID-19 deaths as Spain (23,500), even though Spain has a much larger population of 46 million. New York is also only about 5,000 deaths behind Italy, even though Italy has a population three times the size of New York State.

Indeed, these numbers are so high, one wonders if deaths are even being counted properly, or if there is something about New York's medical infrastructure that is especially inferior. Perhaps New York is home to a particularly virulent strain of the disease. Perhaps the disease was in circulation for far longer than the experts insist is the case. The experts don't know the answers to these questions.

Nor should we expect answers to these questions any time soon. But what we do know is it strains the bounds of credibility to insist that South Dakota will soon be New York if it doesn't impose similar lockdown measures. This doesn't mean no caution is warranted, or that high-risk populations should neglect social-distancing measures. But the claims we're all "two weeks behind New York" are neither accurate nor helpful.

 the widespread and inappropriate reluctance amongst intensivists to employ anti-inflammatory and anticoagulant treatments, including corticosteroid therapy early in the course of a patient’s hospitalization. It is essential to recognize that it is not the virus that is killing the patient, rather it is the patient’s overactive immune system. The flames of the “cytokine fire” are out of control and need to be extinguished. Providing supportive care (with ventilators that themselves stoke the fire) and waiting for the cytokine fire to burn itself out simply does not work… this approach has FAILED and has led to the death of tens of thousands of patients. The systematic failure of critical care systems to adopt corticosteroid therapy resulted from the published recommendations against corticosteroids use by the World Health Organization (WHO), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the American Thoracic Society (ATS) amongst others. A very recent publication by the Society of Critical Care Medicine and authored one of the members of our group (UM), identified the errors made by these organizations in their analyses of corticosteroid studies based on the findings of the SARS and H1N1 pandemics. Their erroneous recommendation to avoid corticosteroids in the treatment of COVID-19 has led to the development of myriad organ failures which have overwhelmed critical care systems across the world. Our treatment protocol targeting these key pathologies has achieved near uniform success, if begun within 6 hours of a COVID19 patient presenting with shortness of

How did Trump supporters cause deaths in NYC.  What is this all about? 

NYC is so bad because people are stacked up like cord wood living together in not enough space so they went up with housing and that added to the Covid19 spread.  Too many people in a small area...I bet Paris is not much different.  

[url]https://www.rt.com/usa/487306-brooklyn-decomposing-bodies-trucks/[/url] DJ-Of course "Russian propaganda"-it was also on Dutch news-but anyway-Dutch are also not "THE US exceptional superstate".

Another note; Istanbul may have 50% of Turkish cases, Moscow 50% of Russian cases, London-UK also over represented in cases. 

Some major cities are hit much harder than others-there may be some logic in the way some population groups move. 

(DJ-And for some "Americans" the US population is 4% of the global population. This forum-as I see it-was meant for a global audience-not only for US use. )

 USA Sends Mexico $320 Million In Aid, Netherlands sends Tulips...

U.S. provides aid worth $320 million a year to Mexico ...

https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/netherlands-gifts-tulips-mexican-healthcare-workers-fighting-covid-19 

https://alexschadenberg.blogspot.com/2020/04/dutch-supreme-court-approves-euthanasia.html

ksc-Euthanasia may be a different discussion. 

WitchMisspelled, I know the RT-story is on a funeral home-not a hospital. My point is (New York) City (Cities) in crisis. 

I noticed the US doing a lot of testing (eventhough testing itself has its limits-that is another discussion). Maybe New York did a very good job in (developing) testing-I don't know. 

I think there are many reasons why the US has 1/3 of (tested) cases and 1/4 of (tested) Covid19 deaths.

1-Other countries are under reporting (China, Iran, Brazil, Russia)

2-Testing itself is also hard in the NL (Excess deaths may be a better indicator (by the way newest [url]https://www.euromomo.eu/[/url] numbers). 

3-Timing-in january the peak was in China, march Italy-then Spain-now it is the US soon likely Russia, Brazil, Indonesia, India

(with a lot of cases/deaths not tested at all)

4-A question I have is why New York City is hit that hard. [url]https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/current-information-about-novel-coronavirus-covid-19[/url] (In the NL the concentration is NOT in major cities) 

I know to little to give a reasonable answer, Vitamin-D problems in a major part of the population, still a lot of (inter)national (air) travel to NYC, but there has to be more...[url]https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486842-covid-19-exposes-america-healthcare/[/url]

[url]https://www.rt.com/op-ed/484298-east-west-war-coronavirus/[/url]

[url]https://www.propublica.org/article/two-coasts-one-virus-how-new-york-suffered-nearly-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california[/url] ;

Breed, it turns out, had sent de Blasio a copy of her detailed shelter-in-place order. She thought New York might benefit from it.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, however, reacted to de Blasio’s idea for closing down New York City with derision. It was dangerous, he said, and served only to scare people. Language mattered, Cuomo said, and “shelter-in-place” sounded like it was a response to a nuclear apocalypse.

Moreover, Cuomo said, he alone had the power to order such a measure.

For years, Cuomo and de Blasio, each of whom has harbored national political ambitions, had engaged in a kind of intrastate cold war, a rivalry that to many often felt childish and counterproductive. When de Blasio finally decided to close the city’s schools, it was Cuomo who rushed to make the public announcement, claiming it as his decision.

“No city in the state can quarantine itself without state approval,” Cuomo said of de Blasio’s call for a shelter-in-place order. “I have no plan whatsoever to quarantine any city.”

-

California, if twice as populous as New York, does not have nearly as many people living on top of one another; despite San Francisco’s density, it does not have millions of people packed into subways and buses the way New York City does. New York City is home to far more African Americans, a population hit hard by the virus.

But the timing of New York’s shutdown undeniably played a role in the dire human toll the virus has exacted. In April, two prominent experts said in a New York Times opinion article that their research showed that had New York imposed its extreme social distancing measures a week or two earlier, the death toll might have been cut by half or more.

-

The official asserted that, from the discovery of the first positive COVID-19 case in the state on March 1 to the shutdown on March 22, New York had acted faster than any other state.

“Three weeks, 20 million people,” the official said. “Insane.”

The official noted that California’s first case surfaced on Jan. 26, its first death occurred March 4 and its statewide shutdown went into effect March 19, a span of almost two months.

-

For New York and California, the clock for quick and prudent action in the fight against COVID-19 began ticking no later than Jan. 17, when the federal government announced it would begin screening passengers arriving in both states from China. The virus had been found outside China and would soon be discovered in dozens of countries. New York and California were known destinations for a steady stream of weekly travelers from China. The Jan. 26 announcement of California’s first case surprised no one.

-

While New York’s formal pandemic response plan underscores the need for seamless communication between state and local officials, the state Health Department broke off routine sharing of information and strategy with its city counterpart in February, just as the size of the menace was becoming clearer, according to both a city official and a city employee. “Radio silence,” said the city official. To this day, the city employee said, the city can’t always get basic data from the state, such as counts of ventilators at hospitals or nursing home staff. “It’s like they have been ordered not to talk to us,” the person said.

The city official also said that after the city had been assisting the state in identifying and responding to outbreaks in city nursing homes, the state two weeks ago abruptly told the city its help wasn’t needed. More than 5,000 nursing home residents in New York have died of COVID-19.

Asked about the city’s claims, a Cuomo administration official insisted the state was working “hand in glove” with all local health departments.