Covid-19 in birds ?????????

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/animal-diseases-of-concern-excludes-h5n1/927601-md-sick-bald-eagles-found-in-carroll-county-state-wildlife-officials-investigating-cause-as-yet-undetermined[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/animal-diseases-of-concern-excludes-h5n1/927601-md-sick-bald-eagles-found-in-carroll-county-state-wildlife-officials-investigating-cause-as-yet-undetermined ; 

DJ [url]https://globalbiodefense.com/2021/11/08/white-tailed-deer-found-to-be-huge-reservoir-of-sars-cov-2-infection/[/url] or https://globalbiodefense.com/2021/11/08/white-tailed-deer-found-to-be-huge-reservoir-of-sars-cov-2-infection/ ....

There will be all kind of samples taken from the eagles and being tested. (I hope !)  So within a few days we may know IF CoViD-19 could have jumped from deer to eagles eating deer...(I hope they also check the death deer being eaten...It could be another disease !) 

Still very alarming-even unanswered...

I know we've spoken about this before ,is it at all possible that C19 could recombine with an avianflu ? 

Technophobe where are you ?need your Brain on this one 

Take care all 😷😉💉

I am still around occasionally, but I am not on holiday; I have had enough of moderating!!! 

Being a moderator/admin means you have to moderate your own behaviour and I would like to be able to call an idiot an idiot!!  I have a real problem with anti-vax bull_****, which I am absolutely bloody certain will cost lives.  Personal freedom should not extend to putting other people's lives at risk; that is why people need driving licences, health and safety officers, firearms controls and laws in general.  Vaccines in a pandemic should be no exception to that rule.  Yet we here on AFT (respected until now and even relied on in some areas) seemed to be promoting that dangerous, unforgiveable lunacy.   

In conscience I can't be associated with that, I would never forgive myself.

I was also apparently alone for ages in moderating.  People get tired you know and I do have a life outside AFT.  So don't expect me back in a hurry - I'm, not.

Enough about me - to address the question:

As a general rule, although cross-species breeding and viral re-assortment occurs, it is exponentially less likely the further appart genetically the species are.  So, coronaviruses mix it up with other coronaviruses and influenza viruses get jiggy with other influenzas, but not each other.  I would never say:  "Impossible!"  but very, very, no, - extreemly unlikely.

Getting flu and COVID19 at the same time would be very bad news, but for that individual host, not the world in general.

As for the eagles: poisoning looks most likely, but the only way to know is to wait for the necropsy of the dead bird, or analysis of the biopsies.  The problem with that is that you can't get answers from necropsies or biopsies unless you ask the right question(s).  Each chemical, viral, bacterial, prion, algal and fungal agent has to be sought out individually.  

So, if it was for instance, strychnine poisoning, this would only come to light if the person evaluating the biopsies specifically looked for strychnine.  There are so many potential causes to look for, even assuming they are looking for the apposite one, don't hold your breath for an answer.

HoneyBee08 , not the same article but 'close" [url]https://www.newscientist.com/article/2268379-two-coronavirus-variants-have-merged-heres-what-you-need-to-know/[/url] or https://www.newscientist.com/article/2268379-two-coronavirus-variants-have-merged-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ ;

Two variants of the coronavirus first identified in the UK and in California appear to have combined into a heavily mutated hybrid. This could signal a new phase of the covid-19 pandemic, as more hybrid variants may emerge.

What exactly has been discovered?

So far, a single genome sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus deposited in a database of thousands from the US. The sequence has tell-tale signs of being a hybrid virus created by a recombination event between two different lineages of SARS-CoV-2.

What is a recombination event?

Coronaviruses such as SARS-CoV-2 have an evolutionary superpower called “recombination” which allows two closely related viruses to mix-and-match their genomes into novel combinations. Unlike regular mutation, which proceeds slowly one change at a time, recombination can produce wholesale changes in a coronavirus genome in one single swoop.

Has the hybrid been detected among actual viruses circulating in people?

No, although the sequence is from a virus taken from an infected person, so it is a plausible hypothesis that the recombinant virus is in the community. However, it could have already fizzled out after failing to transmit to other people. The US has relatively low rates of viral sequencing, so it is hard to say either way.

There is another possibility: the recombination event may have occurred within the sample after it was taken from the infected person, not while it was inside their body. In which case it is an accidental laboratory artefact, not a wild virus.

Could it somehow leak out from the lab?

That would be very unlikely. The sample itself, and hence the virus, has almost certainly been destroyed by now, in line with usual safety procedures. If so, all that remains is a sequence of letters in a database.

Do we know where and when the sample was taken?

No, but southern California in the past month or so is a good guess. It was discovered during an investigation of a recent surge of covid-19 cases in Los Angeles apparently caused by a new SARS-CoV-2 variant called B.1.429.

How did New Scientist find out about it?

It was reported on 2 February at a virtual scientific conference organised by the New York Academy of Sciences. In a presentation about the outbreak in Los Angeles, Bette Korber of Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico said: “We found at least a single recombinant.” She went on to add further details. For example, she showed a graphical representation of the viral genome showing clearly that it is a mosaic of sequences from two different lineages, which is hard to explain any other way than recombination.

The discovery has yet to be published in a scientific journal or posted on a preprint server and Korber declined to comment further.

Do we know which lineages recombined?

Yes. The hybrid is a mash-up of the B.1.1.7 variant first detected in Kent, UK, late last year, and the lesser-known B.1.429, which appears to have originated in southern California. Both are known to be circulating in the Los Angeles area.

Both of these variants carry mutations on their spike proteins that appear to confer an advantage. B.1.1.7 has one called Δ69/70, which makes the virus more transmissible. B.1.429 has a different one called L452R, which can confer resistance to antibodies. Perhaps worryingly, the hybrid virus carries both.

“This kind of event could actually allow the virus to have coupled a more infections virus with a more resistant virus,” Korber said at the conference.

How worried should we be?

Right now, not very. There is no evidence that the recombinant is being transmitted from person to person, though Korber said it couldn’t be ruled out and that it would be necessary to watch for “expansion” – meaning that the recombinant could appear in the population and then increase in frequency, suggesting it is out-competing existing viruses.

But looking forward, we need to add this sort of event to our list of worries. As more genetically distinct variants of SARS-CoV-2 emerge and begin circulating in the same geographical areas, the chances of nasty recombinants increase. This particular recombinant may go nowhere, but it may herald a new phase of the pandemic with recombinants emerging all over the place.

Is this a surprise?

Not really. Even before SARS-CoV-2 emerged, recombination was recognised as an important agent of evolutionary change in coronaviruses. It is possible that recombination led to SARS-CoV-2 emerging in the first place.

Virologists warned about recombination quite early on in the covid-19 pandemic, and have been on the lookout for it since. Two analyses published in December and January independently reported that it hadn’t yet been detected, though that may be because up until then all circulating viruses were so genetically similar that it was impossible to tease out ongoing recombination events from the background noise of normal mutation.

However, recently emerged variants, including B.1.1.7 and B.1.429, may be genetically distinct enough that recombination leaves a detectable trace in the genome.

How can two different viruses meet up to recombine?

In a word, co-infection. In places such as California where two distinct variants are in circulation, individual people can be infected with both at the same time. If individual host cells end up harbouring the two variants, the scene is set for recombination.

How exactly does recombination happen?

It occurs because the coronavirus enzyme that replicates its genome is prone to slipping off the RNA strand it is copying and then rejoining where it left off. If a host cell contains two different coronavirus genomes, the enzyme can repeatedly jump from one to the other, stitching together a mosaic genome. This is more likely to occur where the two viruses are closely related, but has been documented between quite distantly related coronaviruses. So it isn’t impossible that SARS-CoV-2 could recombine with a common-cold-causing coronavirus, with unknown consequences. As yet that hasn’t been seen.

The flu virus also recombines to create new and potentially deadly viral strains. Is it the same process?

Not exactly. The influenza genome is carried on eight separate pieces of RNA, rather than the single one in coronaviruses. If a human or animal is co-infected with two different strains of flu, the RNA pieces can be rearranged into new combinations which may go on to become a novel pandemic strain.

DJ [url]https://www.newscientist.com/article/2268014-exclusive-two-variants-have-merged-into-heavily-mutated-coronavirus/[/url] or https://www.newscientist.com/article/2268014-exclusive-two-variants-have-merged-into-heavily-mutated-coronavirus/ 

[url]http://www.recombinomics.com/founder.html[/url] or http://www.recombinomics.com/founder.html once had lots of info-also on genomics, recombination...[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Flu_Trends[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Flu_Trends also has not been replaced...

I think CoViD-19 will end up in birds, maybe even fish (by eating virus infected animals-the CoViD-virus has to be able to get into the cells...). In non human hosts CoViD 19 could develop in all kinds of directions...maybe even away from humans...(I think-but again I am NOT an expert !!!).

On CoViD ending up in fish ; [url]https://partner.sciencenorway.no/fish-food-and-nutrition-food-safety/why-are-fish-immune-to-coronaviruses/1808855[/url] or https://partner.sciencenorway.no/fish-food-and-nutrition-food-safety/why-are-fish-immune-to-coronaviruses/1808855 ;

Virtually impossible that fish were the culprits

So how do scientists know that the new coronavirus didn’t come from fish at the Chinese animal market?

“Firstly, fish live in a completely different environment and have a body temperature that coronaviruses aren’t adapted to,” explains Myrmel.

The virus particles would also be destroyed quickly in the water, degraded by both sunlight and natural chemical substances.”

Fish cells have a different lock and key

"Secondly, all viruses need for the cells to have specific receptors on their exterior. They are only compatible with certain receptors to be allowed into the cell to start their reproduction. Like a lock and key," she says.

Many mammals share the same “lock” that coronaviruses can open. That is why they have been able to cross species boundaries – both the original SARS virus and the new coronavirus, which is really called SARS CoV-2 (see fact box). Fish cells have different locks.

“Theoretically, it isn’t completely impossible that a fish could catch a coronavirus at some point in all foreseable future. But in practice, it probably is,” says Myrmel.

Since viruses contain genetic material, it is possible to read their genetic code. That gives us their “autobiography.” In this case, that the virus might have been transmitted from a bat, via a pangolin and probably another mammal, to humans.

DJ also [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus seems to exclude fish; 

Coronaviruses are a group of related RNA viruses that cause diseases in mammals and birds. In humans and birds, they cause respiratory tract infections that can range from mild to lethal. Mild illnesses in humans include some cases of the common cold (which is also caused by other viruses, predominantly rhinoviruses), while more lethal varieties can cause SARS, MERS and COVID-19. In cows and pigs they cause diarrhea, while in mice they cause hepatitis and encephalomyelitis.

Coronaviruses constitute the subfamily Orthocoronavirinae, in the family Coronaviridae, order Nidovirales and realm Riboviria.^[3][4] They are enveloped viruses with a positive-sense single-stranded RNA genome and a nucleocapsid of helical symmetry.^[5] The genome size of coronaviruses ranges from approximately 26 to 32 kilobases, one of the largest among RNA viruses.^[6] They have characteristic club-shaped spikes that project from their surface, which in electron micrographs create an image reminiscent of the solar corona, from which their name derives.^[7]

DJ Still ; [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150153/[/url] or https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150153/ ; Fish, like all other living organisms, can be infected by virus representatives from most of the virus families. Predominantly described as fish pathogens, these viruses include rhabdoviruses, birnaviruses, herpesviruses, iridoviruses, reoviruses, orthomyxoviruses and retroviruses. In this brief review, the most well characterized viruses from each family will be discussed and tables listing the general characteristics of these fish viral pathogens as well as other less well characterized viruses within the family are included (Table 1, Table 2 ). In addition, viral agents that have not been confirmed as the etiologic agent and are tentatively classified are listed separately in Table 3 .

that may leave a "backdoor" open...never say never...in table 3; Carp coronavirus  so [url]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32159234/[/url] or https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32159234/ ; 

Abstract

I did "limit my non-sense"...maybe not all the fish may be able to get infected by corona-virusses directly...there are indications even SARS-like corona virus did end up in carp...

Can CoViD 19 end up in birds ? We know other corona virusses are widespread in birds...So I think (again) CoViD can end up in birds...possibly making them ill...Will birds spread the virus ? Maybe more by being eaten (by scavengers; cat/dog like, mice/rats ?) then via breathing...aerosol..

But we may soon learn more...CoViD may allready be spreading like crazy in wildlife...

Hopefully we won't need mods......

After all we adults.....

Well physicaly.....

Mentally ?????? not sure on that one......

Covid fatigue, playing a big part ,

But looking at Europe it's not getting any better,in fact it's going to be a bad winter for you lot in the northern hemisphere......

Buckle up,it's going to get very bumpy.....

Take care all 😷😉💉